ATL - New Lottery Rules Move to Owner Vote - pg59

raysbookclub · Post #461 » by **raysbookclub** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:02 pm

Would Cleveland take Parker instead of Middleton in a trade for Irving? If Lebron is gone after this year, then Cleveland needs a win-now trade, plus a long-term potential blue-chipper. Middleton helps the win-now part, but not the blue-chip part. Over the next post-LeBron years, he actually might significantly harm a tank.

Parker despite the ACLs is still a possible blue-chipper. Post LeBron-Irving, Cleveland can pay him in a year and take that chance and he'd be worth a big contract to them: at best, he's a star, at worst, he can't carry a team but they stayed above the salary floor and they can tank.

SirChurros · Post #462 » by **SirChurros** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:03 pm

There's zero chance Jabari and Brogdon would get it done. Cleveland probably scoffs at that deal even if the Bucks added a first-round pick.

ahagen87 · Post #463 » by **ahagen87** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:08 pm

Yea it's to bad we can't build a package around something other than Middleton. I'd like to see a Kyrie-Middleton-Giannis team.

Ron Swanson · Post #464 » by **Ron Swanson** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:08 pm

Yeah, Middleton absolutely needs to be a part of the deal to get Cleveland on the phone. I'd try really hard to keep Brogdon out of it, but he's not a deal-breaker in a Kyrie trade.

Middleton + Delly + Parker + 2018 Top-3 protected 1st for Kyrie + Shumpert.

SirChurros · Post #465 » by **SirChurros** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:16 pm

I would absolutely offer Brogdon, Thon and a first for Kyrie. But I don't think that gets it done.

Post #466 » by **humanrefutation** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:18 pm

books wrote:Would Cleveland take Parker instead of Middleton in a trade for Irving? If Lebron is gone after this year, then Cleveland needs a win-now trade, plus a long-term potential blue-chipper. Middleton helps the win-now part, but not the blue-chip part. Over the next post-LeBron years, he actually might significantly harm a tank.

Parker despite the ACLs is still a possible blue-chipper. Post LeBron-Irving, Cleveland can pay him in a year and take that chance and he'd be worth a big contract to them: at best, he's a star, at worst, he can't carry a team but they stayed above the salary floor and they can tank.

Not over the Brooklyn pick, no.

raysbookclub · Post #467 » by **raysbookclub** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:18 pm

Irving-Snell-Giannis-Parker-Thon, plus Brogdon-Shumpert-Monroe, with a dash of Henson-Telly-Vaughn? I'd be excited to see that.

raysbookclub · Post #468 » by **raysbookclub** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:22 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
books wrote:Would Cleveland take Parker instead of Middleton in a trade for Irving? If Lebron is gone after this year, then Cleveland needs a win-now trade, plus a long-term potential blue-chipper. Middleton helps the win-now part, but not the blue-chip part. Over the next post-LeBron years, he actually might significantly harm a tank.

Parker despite the ACLs is still a possible blue-chipper. Post LeBron-Irving, Cleveland can pay him in a year and take that chance and he'd be worth a big contract to them: at best, he's a star, at worst, he can't carry a team but they stayed above the salary floor and they can tank.

Not over the Brooklyn pick, no.

Even if Thomas doesn't play or is very reduced this year? Basically the deal then is Irving for the Brooklyn pick and Crowder.

Post #469 » by **humanrefutation** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:29 pm

books wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
books wrote:Would Cleveland take Parker instead of Middleton in a trade for Irving? If Lebron is gone after this year, then Cleveland needs a win-now trade, plus a long-term potential blue-chipper. Middleton helps the win-now part, but not the blue-chip part. Over the next post-LeBron years, he actually might significantly harm a tank.

Parker despite the ACLs is still a possible blue-chipper. Post LeBron-Irving, Cleveland can pay him in a year and take that chance and he'd be worth a big contract to them: at best, he's a star, at worst, he can't carry a team but they stayed above the salary floor and they can tank.

Not over the Brooklyn pick, no.

Even if Thomas doesn't play or is very reduced this year? Basically the deal then is Irving for the Brooklyn pick and Crowder.

No. Jabari might not play at all in 2017-18, and even if he does, he'll need time to get up to speed and he is headed to RFA the following season. Do you really think Cleveland would opt for a pending RFA with two ACL tears over a shot at the potential #1 pick in the draft? The answer is no.

BroncoBuck · Post #470 » by **BroncoBuck** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:29 pm

books wrote:Irving-Snell-Giannis-Parker-Thon, plus Brogdon-Shumpert-Monroe, with a dash of Henson-Telly-Vaughn? I'd be excited to see that.

A team with no first round pick, hamstrung by the cap and I assume you are extending Parker (given he is out for most of the season).

2017 lineup
Irving-Snell-Giannis-Telly/Wilson-Thon/Monroe is one ugly as **** lineup.

Still puts us behind Bos, Cle, Tor…

2018 lineup
Irving-Snell-Giannis-Parker-Thon

Irving leaves after the season. No thanks.

DingleJerry · Post #471 » by **DingleJerry** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:32 pm

I think I'd max out with Brogdon, Parker, unprotected first next year, and their choice of a later year top 5 protected 1st, Thon, or Wilson. If somehow they want to get creative beyond that with guys like Delly, Henson for some salary cap purposes that's fine too. It doesn't have the Win Now avenues they probably prefer but it is what it is, LBJ is leaving and they have to plan for the future. They can't beat GSW anyway. I'd guess they'd rather take their current deal from Bos even if IT is done than this though.

raysbookclub · Post #472 » by **raysbookclub** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:37 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
books wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
Not over the Brooklyn pick, no.

Even if Thomas doesn't play or is very reduced this year? Basically the deal then is Irving for the Brooklyn pick and Crowder.

No. Jabari might not play at all in 2017-18, and even if he does, he'll need time to get up to speed and he is headed to RFA the following season. Do you really think Cleveland would opt for a pending RFA with two ACL tears over a shot at the potential #1 pick in the draft? The answer is no.

yeah, that makes sense

Post #473 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:43 pm

I hate every proposal I've seen on here for Kyrie and this Lowe stuff is super depressing.

Post #474 » by **Prez** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:53 pm

Can we please not

SirChurros · Post #475 » by **SirChurros** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:53 pm

I don't like the notion of giving up Middleton, but people on here really overvalue Brogdon and Thon. If you could work a deal around them and future firsts, I absolutely do it.

Ron Swanson · Post #476 » by **Ron Swanson** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:55 pm

What are the actual odds that BKN pick turns into #1 overall in back-to-back years? Ainge struck gold with the 2017 pick and then correctly (IMO) hedged his bets that it wasn't likely to happen the very next year. That pick is at peak value right now because there haven't been any games played yet, and people don't know if BKN is still the front-runner, or it a team like PHX, IND, CHI, SAC, are worse.

SirChurros · Post #477 » by **SirChurros** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:56 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:What are the actual odds that BKN pick turns into #1 overall in back-to-back years? Ainge struck gold with the 2017 pick and then correctly (IMO) hedged his bets that it wasn't likely to happen the very next year. That pick is at peak value right now because there haven't been any games played yet, and people don't know if BKN is still the front-runner, or it a team like PHX, IND, CHI, SAC, are worse.

I think the odds that it ends up in the top four are pretty good and we basically are going to have the best one through five we've seen in quite awhile.

chonestown · Post #478 » by **chonestown** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:57 pm

Marvin Berry wrote:I don't like the notion of giving up Middleton, but people on here really overvalue Brogdon and Thon. If you could work a deal around them and future firsts, I absolutely do it.

I think Thon is overvalued here and Brogdon is undervalued, largely based on perception of ceiling.

Thunder Muscle · Post #479 » by **Thunder Muscle** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:00 pm

Maybe I'm in denial but I want to ride it out with Parker and see what happens. In general I prefer not to deal for Kyrie. If Snell could ascend into Middleton's role completely, I'm more on board but pretty unrealistic I think. I'd also want a no D-bag guarantee from Kyrie.

Safe play is to stay away. I'd like to get out of the first round before thinking we are one player from a championship.

Thunder Muscle · Post #480 » by **Thunder Muscle** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:01 pm

Marvin Berry wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:What are the actual odds that BKN pick turns into #1 overall in back-to-back years? Ainge struck gold with the 2017 pick and then correctly (IMO) hedged his bets that it wasn't likely to happen the very next year. That pick is at peak value right now because there haven't been any games played yet, and people don't know if BKN is still the front-runner, or it a team like PHX, IND, CHI, SAC, are worse.

I think the odds that it ends up in the top four are pretty good and we basically are going to have the best one through five we've seen in quite awhile.

Yeah, the Nets could be a little friskier this year.