WojBomb: BOS/CLE deal could be voided after IT's physical (Part 2)

[chrisab123]

I'm really interested in why all of a sudden the Bucks are being rumored heavy. If true, I wonder if Silver would do something about that? Since it seems like the Cavs are still negotiating with the Bucks and tried to re engage Phoenix after the trade was consummated. For all of the fans on here saying Ainge is negotiating in "bad faith" what does that say about Altman that he's blatantly violating the CBA if true? He's essentially saying if the reports are true that the Bucks thought he was bluffing about making a trade with Boston and now is using the Boston package as a baseline for more offers.

[Flash4thewin]

no one cares what you think you are not communicating anything special at all
all I see you doing is bashing others for not agreeing with lame high probability outcomes.
The fact is if IT4 can't play at the start of training camp which he basically already has confirmed,
then I was right Ainge tried to pull a fast one. not that hard to understand.

Everybody knew that IT was injured, and might have a delay in returning. What Cavs are doing is nothing short of extortion. They already won the trade, now they want more. Celtics offer is far above any other team.

Cavs didn't win anything. One thing Cavs fans seem to have with a lot of the less bright Celtic fans is that this trade was somehow about IT. It's Kyrie for the Nets pick and the rest is noise.

The amount of mental gymnastics needed to come out with that conclusion is mind blowing. Even a caveman would understand IT is an integral part of the trade. Kyrie for the nets pick makes no sense for a team trying to compete today. What comes tomorrow will come, one extra draft pick wont mean much but to compete this last season means everything. Again i commend you for the mental gymnastics needed to think this is all about a pick.

[mademan]

I'm really interested in why all of a sudden the Bucks are being rumored heavy. If true, I wonder if Silver would do something about that? Since it seems like the Cavs are still negotiating with the Bucks and tried to re engage Phoenix after the trade was consummated. For all of the fans on here saying Ainge is negotiating in "bad faith" what does that say about Altman that he's blatantly violating the CBA if true?

No trade has been completed. Cavs are free to continue negotiating with Boston or whomever else

[Kordic27]

Mike Conley, McCollum, Dragic and Bledsoe come to mind. There are a lot of good guards in the NBA today but im not sure that Boston would want either of them since they dont fit the timeline.

Was wondering about Conley, but the package seems like way too much for him. Maybe tweak to make it Conley with Marc Gasol.

I think you undervalue both Conley and Gasol. The only way i see Boston getting both is if they gave both Nets and Lakers picks along with Tatum and Brown and that ain't happening.

Oh man, have to disagree there. Memphis isn't in a great position given their stars can get them 7th or 8th, and both are just over the peak of their careers. I'd say that Brown or Tatum, with the nets or lakers pick, with IT and salary (not familiar enough w/ Boston lineup to say who, but likely serviceable players), would be a pretty good startover move for them.

I have to admit that I haven't seen a ton of Memphis games, but judging by salary, standings, and stats, seems to make sense.

[zronv7]

Irving/Hayward/Horford
Wall/Beal/Porter
Lowry/Derozan/Ibaka

Celtics look like they have the 2nd best trio after the Cavs in the East imo

Raps and Wizards don't have a good enough third player to be considered a trio, not sure if Ibaka nor porter fits the bill there.

[chrisab123]

I'm really interested in why all of a sudden the Bucks are being rumored heavy. If true, I wonder if Silver would do something about that? Since it seems like the Cavs are still negotiating with the Bucks and tried to re engage Phoenix after the trade was consummated. For all of the fans on here saying Ainge is negotiating in "bad faith" what does that say about Altman that he's blatantly violating the CBA if true?

No trade has been completed. Cavs are free to continue negotiating with Boston or whomever else

No they are not. Please re read the CBA. Deal is pending. Its illegal to re engage a team unless its vetoed. So why accept a trade if your ultimate goal was to use the deal to extort more value? I personally have no clue what the motivation was by Cleveland. However if we're paying attention to rumors it seems like they accepted the deal to call the bluff of Milwaukee.

[mademan]

I'm really interested in why all of a sudden the Bucks are being rumored heavy. If true, I wonder if Silver would do something about that? Since it seems like the Cavs are still negotiating with the Bucks and tried to re engage Phoenix after the trade was consummated. For all of the fans on here saying Ainge is negotiating in "bad faith" what does that say about Altman that he's blatantly violating the CBA if true?

No trade has been completed. Cavs are free to continue negotiating with Boston or whomever else

No they are not. Please re read the CBA. Deal is pending. Its illegal to re engage a team unless its vetoed. So why accept a trade if your ultimate goal was to use the deal to extort more value?

So you have first hand knowledge that the cavs and Celtics completes the correct paper work to push the trade through? I'm pretty cavs management, no matter what you think of them, wouldn't flaunt the rules this publicly

[chrisab123]

No trade has been completed. Cavs are free to continue negotiating with Boston or whomever else

No they are not. Please re read the CBA. Deal is pending. Its illegal to re engage a team unless its vetoed. So why accept a trade if your ultimate goal was to use the deal to extort more value?

So you have first hand knowledge that the cavs and Celtics completes the correct paper work to push the trade through? I'm pretty cavs management, no matter what you think of them, wouldn't flaunt the rules this publicly

I mean NBA.com is probably a good start. Since its run by the league...I don't think teams would plaster things about the trade unless it was completed since Danny Ainge randomly talking about Kyrie would be considered tampering otherwise.

[Qwigglez]

The amount of mental gymnastics needed to come out with that conclusion is mind blowing. Even a caveman would understand IT is an integral part of the trade. Kyrie for the nets pick makes no sense for a team trying to compete today. What comes tomorrow will come, one extra draft pick wont mean much but to compete this last season means everything. Again i commend you for the mental gymnastics needed to think this is all about a pick.

Completely off topic, but you made me look this up.

Watch on YouTube

To add to the topic, I will agree that IT is definitely an integral part of the trade as it allows Lebron to compete this year.

[Darth Celtic]

I'm really interested in why all of a sudden the Bucks are being rumored heavy. If true, I wonder if Silver would do something about that? Since it seems like the Cavs are still negotiating with the Bucks and tried to re engage Phoenix after the trade was consummated. For all of the fans on here saying Ainge is negotiating in "bad faith" what does that say about Altman that he's blatantly violating the CBA if true?

No trade has been completed. Cavs are free to continue negotiating with Boston or whomever else

Actually, that has already been proven wrong. The trade was completed when they had the conference call with the league where everything was disclosed. The teams then had 7 days to do a physical after that, and another day to void the trade. That is why Thur 10am is the deadline as trade was done Tues night.

It is against the rules, and the Cavs shouldn't be negotiating with the Celtics player in a trade with other teams. They first have to notify the league they are voiding the trade due to medical. They can discuss the deal with the Celtics though.

[Woolyy]

Irving/Hayward/Horford
Wall/Beal/Porter
Lowry/Derozan/Ibaka

Celtics look like they have the 2nd best trio after the Cavs in the East imo

Simmons/Embiid/Fultz/Saric

you lose

[chrisab123]

I'm really interested in why all of a sudden the Bucks are being rumored heavy. If true, I wonder if Silver would do something about that? Since it seems like the Cavs are still negotiating with the Bucks and tried to re engage Phoenix after the trade was consummated. For all of the fans on here saying Ainge is negotiating in "bad faith" what does that say about Altman that he's blatantly violating the CBA if true?

No trade has been completed. Cavs are free to continue negotiating with Boston or whomever else

Actually, that has already been proven wrong. The trade was completed when they had the conference call with the league where everything was disclosed. The teams then had 7 days to do a physical after that, and another day to void the trade. That is why Thur 10am is the deadline as trade was done Tues night.

It is against the rules, and the Cavs shouldn't be negotiating with the Celtics player in a trade with other teams. They first have to notify the league they are voiding the trade due to medical. They can discuss the deal with the Celtics though.

Correct. Otherwise Ainge could get hit with tampering for speaking about Kyrie Irving.

[OldCeltics]

Celtics now want Love included in the deal:

http://us.blastingnews.com/sports/2017/08/celtics-looking-to-add-kevin-love-in-the-irving-thomas-trade-with-cavaliers-001964833.html

[jbk1234]

I'm really interested in why all of a sudden the Bucks are being rumored heavy. If true, I wonder if Silver would do something about that? Since it seems like the Cavs are still negotiating with the Bucks and tried to re engage Phoenix after the trade was consummated. For all of the fans on here saying Ainge is negotiating in "bad faith" what does that say about Altman that he's blatantly violating the CBA if true? He's essentially saying if the reports are true that the Bucks thought he was bluffing about making a trade with Boston and now is using the Boston package as a baseline for more offers.

A few thoughts: (1) If Silver gets into this, he's not going to investigate just one aspect of the trade. He'll look at all of it including the veracity of the Cavs complaints re: IT's health status. Maybe Boston's F.O. would be fine with that, maybe they wouldn't. (2) The Celtics would essentially be asking Silver to investigate something that isn't against any written rule. Silver would have to say there's an implied rule & then he'd have to set the parameters for the implied rule. Three-team trades usually start by talking about guys who aren't on your roster. (3) What if the Bucks haven't called the Cavs but are just floating a hypothetical offer via the media? Again, there's no rule against doing that. So Silver would have to make one up and establish guidelines for it.

[Captain_Caveman]

Everybody knew that IT was injured, and might have a delay in returning. What Cavs are doing is nothing short of extortion. They already won the trade, now they want more. Celtics offer is far above any other team.

Cavs didn't win anything. One thing Cavs fans seem to have with a lot of the less bright Celtic fans is that this trade was somehow about IT. It's Kyrie for the Nets pick and the rest is noise.

The amount of mental gymnastics needed to come out with that conclusion is mind blowing. Even a caveman would understand IT is an integral part of the trade. Kyrie for the nets pick makes no sense for a team trying to compete today. What comes tomorrow will come, one extra draft pick wont mean much but to compete this last season means everything. Again i commend you for the mental gymnastics needed to think this is all about a pick.

More mental gymnastics than thinking Jayson Tatum needed to be included in the deal?

LmAoOoOOOooOOoOooooOooOOOOooooOOo

[Alatan]

Was wondering about Conley, but the package seems like way too much for him. Maybe tweak to make it Conley with Marc Gasol.

I think you undervalue both Conley and Gasol. The only way i see Boston getting both is if they gave both Nets and Lakers picks along with Tatum and Brown and that ain't happening.

Oh man, have to disagree there. Memphis isn't in a great position given their stars can get them 7th or 8th, and both are just over the peak of their careers. I'd say that Brown or Tatum, with the nets or lakers pick, with IT and salary (not familiar enough w/ Boston lineup to say who, but likely serviceable players), would be a pretty good startover move for them.

I have to admit that I haven't seen a ton of Memphis games, but judging by salary, standings, and stats, seems to make sense.

I doubt that you can get 2xAllstar level players on multiple years by giving 1 pick and one unproven player along with half a year of hurt IT.
Its like saying the Suns can get Hayward and Horford for Jackson and a 1st.

[phanman]

Yup, they are raping us badly if IT is truly gimpy. Problem is all the other teams are putting out low ball offers also, there isn't a great market for him right now with all the stars already having changed teams.

We don't even need to make a trade, though. We can just keep the pick.

The Brooklyn pick isn't begging to be traded, or feuding with our other star players.

This is pure posturing. Bringing back IT & Crowder would be disaster pants and that's assuming IT can play meaningful minutes this season. If IT can't play meaningful minutes/games this year, your teams is worse than last year's team and you've got to trade the picks for a PG anyway. No way Hayward would be cool with the Celtics taking a step back for multiple years while they develop 19 year olds.

Really doesn't matter considering he's locked up for the next 4 years. Likewise with Crowder who is locked up for the next 3 years and figures to have a prominent role even with the botched trade, considering his ability to stretch the floor and play hard-nosed defense.

Its not like he is playing with scrubs, Horford is a max player and previous all-star in his own right. Everybody has seen what Steven has done with a lesser roster and they'll still be up there challenging for HCA even with Thomas out. Ainge/Stevens are high on Rozier and they can always slide Smart into the PG slot which obviously improves their defense with Horford/Hayward handling playmaking duties.

That said I highly doubt IT sits out the entire season and people act as if the BK pick is only valuable to the Cavs. It is a highly valuable asset and one that can easily be used in a different trade if need be. You can't sit there and say Boston doesn't have the assets to bring in a another big name other than Kyrie.

[Seabass11]

I'm really interested in why all of a sudden the Bucks are being rumored heavy. If true, I wonder if Silver would do something about that? Since it seems like the Cavs are still negotiating with the Bucks and tried to re engage Phoenix after the trade was consummated. For all of the fans on here saying Ainge is negotiating in "bad faith" what does that say about Altman that he's blatantly violating the CBA if true?

No trade has been completed. Cavs are free to continue negotiating with Boston or whomever else

No they are not. Please re read the CBA. Deal is pending. Its illegal to re engage a team unless its vetoed. So why accept a trade if your ultimate goal was to use the deal to extort more value? I personally have no clue what the motivation was by Cleveland. However if we're paying attention to rumors it seems like they accepted the deal to call the bluff of Milwaukee.

This is definitely not a rule stated clearly in the CBA...people who are making this claim are pulling from 2 different sections of the CBA. One that says a trade is "official" once the trade conference call commences and thus it would be "tampering" for the Cavs to discuss deals about a player that is not on their team anymore. And the other part in a completely different section talks about the players returning to the teams after the trade is vetoed (which hasn't been done yet).

But truth is there is nothing specific about this weird week long limbo that states whether or not a team can continue negotiating or not...You are making a jump to conclusion to assume this.

[Catchall]

Is this deal happening or not? Isn't today the deadline to decide?

So the verdict is that IT is going to miss a significant portion of the season (e.g., 25 - 50 games)?

[reload141]

Irving/Hayward/Horford
Wall/Beal/Porter
Lowry/Derozan/Ibaka

Celtics look like they have the 2nd best trio after the Cavs in the East imo

Simmons/Embiid/Fultz/Saric

you lose

Maybe if Embiid can actually play a whole season...
And will probably need to see Simmons and Fultz actually play some actual NBA games first