Kyrie asked to be traded (UPDATED)

[jbk1234]

This is not a good look.

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[Andrew McCeltic]

Don't come here to troll.

[Marvel]

Congrats. Hope that 2020 2nd rounder serves you well.

[Dupp]

So everyone said we won trade easily but now we got a second round pick (waste of time) we somehow lost?

[jbk1234]

So everyone said we won trade easily but now we got a second round pick (waste of time) we somehow lost?

I do think we're in a bit of a lose/lose position with IT now. Either he'll be healthier than we made it seem and we'll look shady, or worse, he won't be and we'll look like we caved.

[Dupp]

So everyone said we won trade easily but now we got a second round pick (waste of time) we somehow lost?

I do think we're in a bit of a lose/lose position with IT now. Either he'll be healthier than we made it seem and we'll look shady, or worse, he won't be and we'll look like we caved.

Who cares if he plays though. He'll be competing for a title and max contract.

[jbk1234]

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I've always liked Lloyd so I subscribed but the article is behind a payroll. Long story short, LBJ wasn't happy with the Celtics trade. LBJ's camp actually hoped that things could be worked out with Kyrie. They were hoping it would fall apart.

Gilbert doesn't care because LBJ won't commit after this year. Cavs aren't going all-in on win-now moves anymore. Lloyd thinks IT might not be ready to play until January, and although he didn't expressly say it, he heavily implies the second round pick isn't enough compensation for the risk.

I'll actually be surprised if we miss Kyrie in the regular season and even for most of the playoffs. But against the Warriors, this roster isn't getting it done.

None of the PGs on our roster can defend the position. We've actually managed to become worse defensively at the 1. Unless we move Shump for Delly, we're not in a position where we can trade Shump (I don't want to make JR our best defensive guard). Calderon & J. Green now look like questionable signings given our roster situation. I have no idea why we gave Felder a guaranteed contract. We can probably dump Frye's expiring contract with one of our second round picks. But this roster needs to lose some redundant players and have far better balance than it currently does.

[jbk1234]

No pay wall.

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[NormanDale]

So everyone said we won trade easily but now we got a second round pick (waste of time) we somehow lost?

Celtics fan here. I agree with you. I think Altman deliberately tried to play down the quality of this trade for Cleveland through the media in an attempt to get more from the Celtics. Not a bad strategy, except that it seems to have argued so convincingly against his own trade that people started to believe him.

From my perspective, this is the realistic upside for Cleveland

Isaiah Thomas
Let's face the facts: Isaiah Thomas was better than Kyrie Irving last season. He went for 29-6 on an incredible .625 TS%. He led a mediocre team to 53 wins.

One week ago, many people expected him to be healthy in time for training camp. There has been no indication has come out that he will miss the entire season, just an indication that he will miss part of the season (i.e. that the injury is worse than previously thought, and he won't be ready for training camp).

If you mostly watched IT during the playoff games against Cleveland where he was injured, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised about him when he gets healthy. The guy does basically everything Kyrie does, but at an even higher level of efficiency--and that's without playing with LeBron. Who knows if playing with LeBron improves him or makes him worse, but this guy (again, assuming he's healthy) is an absolute stud.

Jae Crowder
A few things about Crowder: He was 5th among small forwards in RPM last year, just behind Giannis and just ahead of Otto Porter. He shot 40% from 3 last year, 46% from the corner, played solid defense, and was a key starter on a 53-win team last year. Also, he has 3 more years on his contract at $7 million per year.

I'm not sure whether you will start Crowder or bring him off the bench, given your depth at his position, but you will get an extremely solid player, hard working, who can defend multiple positions well. He can hit open threes and is on one of the league's best contracts. Just with these two guys alone, I think you're better than last year (again, assuming IT is healthy) and better able to challenge the Warriors.

Ante Zizic
How about a few fun facts about Ante Zizic and Josh Jackson!

Fact: Ante Zizic and Josh Jackson are the same age.
Fact: Ante Zizic is currently a better basketball player than Josh Jackson
Fact: Josh Jackson is widely projected as a future All Star.

Will Ante Zizic become an All-Star? Maybe! Probably not, but it's just as likely as the predictions that he'll be a bench-warmer his whole career. He was the #23 pick, but most scouts were saying before the draft that he would be a Top-10 pick if he had been in this year's draft. There is a whole thread on the GB about why: One of the top PER's in the Euroleague last year as a 19 year old, great rebounder, solid shooter, strong potential, on a fast growth trajectory.

This guy should not be seen as just a "throw in." He's good. I could see him developing into a poor-man's Kevin Love, if he can extend his range out beyond the three point line (no reason to think he can't).

Nets Pick
Everyone is very high on the Nets this year it seems, but they went 20-62 last year and they weren't losing on purpose. Adding D'Angelo Russell (who has never done much in the NBA) and DeMarre Carroll won't turn them into a good team. It is highly likely that you get a Top-5 pick next year, and next year's draft has five guys projected as future studs.

2nd Rounder
Who the hell knows? I guess it's better to have than not?


You're right: even with IT's injury, you guys still won the trade. Congratulations. You have gotten better for 2018 and for the future. I will be rooting for you if you do make the finals, and I think you'll have a real chance.

So yea, you win.

...unless this trade causes LeBron to leave. In which case...oops.

[OzCastiel]

Dan Gilbert looks like a clown. Spent an entire week leaking/crying information to Woj, slandering IT and his health, pissed off an agent, risked being ostracized by the league, all for a damn second rounder 3 years from now from miami. & LeBron should stick around and believe in these guys? Good god.

edit- Also I know people are real sensitive here and don't like to have real dialogue but check out O'Connor's piece on Gilbert's presence during this deal. Koby could have looked like a messiah if he just went away.

[Hoopz Afrik]

Happy for both teams thought I hate seeing fanbases of both teams having swordfighting matches to argue why their team came out on top.

[CeltsfaninDC]

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What comes through in this article loud and clear is that the Celtics are nervous. The way Celtics are acting about IT's health just reeks of the lady doth protest too much:

Whether the Celtics agree to send over one of their lesser picks, such as their lottery protected 2019 first-rounder from the Clippers, remains unclear.

Floating unsolicited offers like this through the Boston media is not the response of an organization whose hands are entirely clean.

Actually no. There was nothing to see from the Celts side since they knew what his status was and they were clear about it with the Cavs from the beginning. There was no reason to be nervous since there was nothing wrong. Almost all of this was made up by the press (probably placed there by LeBron who wasn't happy with the take since the big prize for you is the Nets pick and he'll be long gone by then) which is why you never heard the actual teams making statements. The additional 2nd rounder is customary in these situations and fair value. You guys should be happy with this.

[jbk1234]

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What comes through in this article loud and clear is that the Celtics are nervous. The way Celtics are acting about IT's health just reeks of the lady doth protest too much:

Whether the Celtics agree to send over one of their lesser picks, such as their lottery protected 2019 first-rounder from the Clippers, remains unclear.

Floating unsolicited offers like this through the Boston media is not the response of an organization whose hands are entirely clean.

Actually no. There was nothing to see from the Celts side since they knew what his status was and they were clear about it with the Cavs from the beginning. There was no reason to be nervous since there was nothing wrong. Almost all of this was made up by the press (probably placed there by LeBron who wasn't happy with the take since the big prize for you is the Nets pick and he'll be long gone by then) which is why you never heard the actual teams making statements. The additional 2nd rounder is customary in these situations and fair value. You guys should be happy with this.

I would've been happy if we voided the trade. I've read multiple reports from Woj & others that the Cavs don't believe the Celtics were *clear* about IT's status.

[jbk1234]

Dan Gilbert looks like a clown. Spent an entire week leaking/crying information to Woj, slandering IT and his health, pissed off an agent, risked being ostracized by the league, all for a damn second rounder 3 years from now from miami. & LeBron should stick around and believe in these guys? Good god.

edit- Also I know people are real sensitive here and don't like to have real dialogue but check out O'Connor's piece on Gilbert's presence during this deal. Koby could have looked like a messiah if he just went away.

You should read Lloyd's piece as he actually has good sources within Cleveland.

[bmurph128]

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I've always liked Lloyd so I subscribed but the article is behind a payroll. Long story short, LBJ wasn't happy with the Celtics trade. LBJ's camp actually hoped that things could be worked out with Kyrie. They were hoping it would fall apart.

Gilbert doesn't care because LBJ won't commit after this year. Cavs aren't going all-in on win-now moves anymore. Lloyd thinks IT might not be ready to play until January, and although he didn't expressly say it, he heavily implies the second round pick isn't enough compensation for the risk.

I'll actually be surprised if we miss Kyrie in the regular season and even for most of the playoffs. But against the Warriors, this roster isn't getting it done.

None of the PGs on our roster can defend the position. We've actually managed to become worse defensively at the 1. Unless we move Shump for Delly, we're not in a position where we can trade Shump (I don't want to make JR our best defensive guard). Calderon & J. Green now look like questionable signings given our roster situation. I have no idea why we gave Felder a guaranteed contract. We can probably dump Frye's expiring contract with one of our second round picks. But this roster needs to lose some redundant players and have far better balance than it currently does.

You have to lighten up. Everything you're writing lately is doom and gloom here.

Kyrie for Crowder straight up probably makes the Cavs a better team. I think Shump for Delly is a move we should make, but even if we don't, we have zero obligation to play IT in the finals. He's basically a rental who we have no prior allegiance to.

LeBron/JR/Crowder/Love/Thompson is the best lineup we've had against the Warriors to date. JR, Crowder and Love will need to knock down open shots, but that's easily the best combination of offense/defense.

And it's not about whether we think the Cavs will trade the pick, it's what we would do. And you know what? Even if LeBron came to me and said "I'm leaving next year", I would still trade the pick. I hope I'm wrong but if we don't trade the pick and draft an average player, it was a complete waste of an opportunity.

The Cavs got better, lowered the payroll, got a trade exception, and have several pieces that can be traded (Shump, Frye, RJ, Cedi, Love, IT) to potentially make the team even better. Just enjoy it man....we have a top 3 player still in his prime. I consider myself optimistically realistic - I'm not going to say that "we're going to beat the Warriors" - but we're a move away from being capable of it. What more can you ask for?

[OzCastiel]

Dan Gilbert looks like a clown. Spent an entire week leaking/crying information to Woj, slandering IT and his health, pissed off an agent, risked being ostracized by the league, all for a damn second rounder 3 years from now from miami. & LeBron should stick around and believe in these guys? Good god.

edit- Also I know people are real sensitive here and don't like to have real dialogue but check out O'Connor's piece on Gilbert's presence during this deal. Koby could have looked like a messiah if he just went away.

You should read Lloyd's piece as he actually has good sources within Cleveland.

I spent some time earlier this morning reading some his work that was bootlegged on the deep web. Things are looking real shaky right now.

[OzCastiel]

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I've always liked Lloyd so I subscribed but the article is behind a payroll. Long story short, LBJ wasn't happy with the Celtics trade. LBJ's camp actually hoped that things could be worked out with Kyrie. They were hoping it would fall apart.

Gilbert doesn't care because LBJ won't commit after this year. Cavs aren't going all-in on win-now moves anymore. Lloyd thinks IT might not be ready to play until January, and although he didn't expressly say it, he heavily implies the second round pick isn't enough compensation for the risk.

I'll actually be surprised if we miss Kyrie in the regular season and even for most of the playoffs. But against the Warriors, this roster isn't getting it done.

None of the PGs on our roster can defend the position. We've actually managed to become worse defensively at the 1. Unless we move Shump for Delly, we're not in a position where we can trade Shump (I don't want to make JR our best defensive guard). Calderon & J. Green now look like questionable signings given our roster situation. I have no idea why we gave Felder a guaranteed contract. We can probably dump Frye's expiring contract with one of our second round picks. But this roster needs to lose some redundant players and have far better balance than it currently does.

You have to lighten up. Everything you're writing lately is doom and gloom here.

Kyrie for Crowder straight up probably makes the Cavs a better team. I think Shump for Delly is a move we should make, but even if we don't, we have zero obligation to play IT in the finals. He's basically a rental who we have no prior allegiance to.

LeBron/JR/Crowder/Love/Thompson is the best lineup we've had against the Warriors to date. JR, Crowder and Love will need to knock down open shots, but that's easily the best combination of offense/defense.

And it's not about whether we think the Cavs will trade the pick, it's what we would do. And you know what? Even if LeBron came to me and said "I'm leaving next year", I would still trade the pick. I hope I'm wrong but if we don't trade the pick and draft an average player, it was a complete waste of an opportunity.

The Cavs got better, lowered the payroll, got a trade exception, and have several pieces that can be traded (Shump, Frye, RJ, Cedi, Love, IT) to potentially make the team even better. Just enjoy it man....we have a top 3 player still in his prime. I consider myself optimistically realistic - I'm not going to say that "we're going to beat the Warriors" - but we're a move away from being capable of it. What more can you ask for?

Kyrie for Crowder makes the Cavs a better team in your imagination only. Crowder got abused whenever in front of LeBron or Kyrie. They had to hide him on jr for stretches it got so bad. Now let's pretend he's guarding 6'11 Durant who just got done averaging 35 on the best player in the world (you put lbj top 3, I still think he's the best)

[jbk1234]

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I've always liked Lloyd so I subscribed but the article is behind a payroll. Long story short, LBJ wasn't happy with the Celtics trade. LBJ's camp actually hoped that things could be worked out with Kyrie. They were hoping it would fall apart.

Gilbert doesn't care because LBJ won't commit after this year. Cavs aren't going all-in on win-now moves anymore. Lloyd thinks IT might not be ready to play until January, and although he didn't expressly say it, he heavily implies the second round pick isn't enough compensation for the risk.

I'll actually be surprised if we miss Kyrie in the regular season and even for most of the playoffs. But against the Warriors, this roster isn't getting it done.

None of the PGs on our roster can defend the position. We've actually managed to become worse defensively at the 1. Unless we move Shump for Delly, we're not in a position where we can trade Shump (I don't want to make JR our best defensive guard). Calderon & J. Green now look like questionable signings given our roster situation. I have no idea why we gave Felder a guaranteed contract. We can probably dump Frye's expiring contract with one of our second round picks. But this roster needs to lose some redundant players and have far better balance than it currently does.

You have to lighten up. Everything you're writing lately is doom and gloom here.

Kyrie for Crowder straight up probably makes the Cavs a better team. I think Shump for Delly is a move we should make, but even if we don't, we have zero obligation to play IT in the finals. He's basically a rental who we have no prior allegiance to.

LeBron/JR/Crowder/Love/Thompson is the best lineup we've had against the Warriors to date. JR, Crowder and Love will need to knock down open shots, but that's easily the best combination of offense/defense.

And it's not about whether we think the Cavs will trade the pick, it's what we would do. And you know what? Even if LeBron came to me and said "I'm leaving next year", I would still trade the pick. I hope I'm wrong but if we don't trade the pick and draft an average player, it was a complete waste of an opportunity.

The Cavs got better, lowered the payroll, got a trade exception, and have several pieces that can be traded (Shump, Frye, RJ, Cedi, Love, IT) to potentially make the team even better. Just enjoy it man....we have a top 3 player still in his prime. I consider myself optimistically realistic - I'm not going to say that "we're going to beat the Warriors" - but we're a move away from being capable of it. What more can you ask for?

The bolded part is crazy, I'm going to do a grading the trade post explaining why. As far as what we will do with that Brooklyn pick, you should read the Lloyd article because it's not about what I would do, it's about what Gilbert is going to do.

[jbk1234]

Dan Gilbert looks like a clown. Spent an entire week leaking/crying information to Woj, slandering IT and his health, pissed off an agent, risked being ostracized by the league, all for a damn second rounder 3 years from now from miami. & LeBron should stick around and believe in these guys? Good god.

edit- Also I know people are real sensitive here and don't like to have real dialogue but check out O'Connor's piece on Gilbert's presence during this deal. Koby could have looked like a messiah if he just went away.

Consider this an informal warning for trolling. You don't get come here call the owner a clown, accuse the Cavs of slandering IT (the proof will be in the pudding on that one), and then preempt a trolling warning by labeling Cavs fans as too sensitive and afraid of real dialogue.

[bmurph128]

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I've always liked Lloyd so I subscribed but the article is behind a payroll. Long story short, LBJ wasn't happy with the Celtics trade. LBJ's camp actually hoped that things could be worked out with Kyrie. They were hoping it would fall apart.

Gilbert doesn't care because LBJ won't commit after this year. Cavs aren't going all-in on win-now moves anymore. Lloyd thinks IT might not be ready to play until January, and although he didn't expressly say it, he heavily implies the second round pick isn't enough compensation for the risk.

I'll actually be surprised if we miss Kyrie in the regular season and even for most of the playoffs. But against the Warriors, this roster isn't getting it done.

None of the PGs on our roster can defend the position. We've actually managed to become worse defensively at the 1. Unless we move Shump for Delly, we're not in a position where we can trade Shump (I don't want to make JR our best defensive guard). Calderon & J. Green now look like questionable signings given our roster situation. I have no idea why we gave Felder a guaranteed contract. We can probably dump Frye's expiring contract with one of our second round picks. But this roster needs to lose some redundant players and have far better balance than it currently does.

You have to lighten up. Everything you're writing lately is doom and gloom here.

Kyrie for Crowder straight up probably makes the Cavs a better team. I think Shump for Delly is a move we should make, but even if we don't, we have zero obligation to play IT in the finals. He's basically a rental who we have no prior allegiance to.

LeBron/JR/Crowder/Love/Thompson is the best lineup we've had against the Warriors to date. JR, Crowder and Love will need to knock down open shots, but that's easily the best combination of offense/defense.

And it's not about whether we think the Cavs will trade the pick, it's what we would do. And you know what? Even if LeBron came to me and said "I'm leaving next year", I would still trade the pick. I hope I'm wrong but if we don't trade the pick and draft an average player, it was a complete waste of an opportunity.

The Cavs got better, lowered the payroll, got a trade exception, and have several pieces that can be traded (Shump, Frye, RJ, Cedi, Love, IT) to potentially make the team even better. Just enjoy it man....we have a top 3 player still in his prime. I consider myself optimistically realistic - I'm not going to say that "we're going to beat the Warriors" - but we're a move away from being capable of it. What more can you ask for?

The bolded part is crazy, I'm going to do a grading the trade post explaining why. As far as what we will do with that Brooklyn pick, you should read the Lloyd article because it's not about what I would do, it's about what Gilbert is going to do.

Read the article you posted that wasn't behind a pay wall - "some in LeBron's camp" does not mean LeBron himself. In fact, knowing what we do know about LeBron and his pride, I very much doubt that LeBron wanted to play with Kyrie after Kyrie said he didn't want to play with LeBron.

Not sure why the bolded part is crazy. Let's see how this plays out:

IT comes back in January, starts from then until the ECF. Either gets "hurt" (which could really happen), or they sit him down and say our best chance to beat the Warriors is with you as the 6th man. Just because teams generally "don't do that" is no reason why we shouldn't. We need IT to help LeBron rest during the season, but come playoff time he's not as important IF Love can pick up the scoring slack. Nobody can guard Kevin Durant, but putting LeBron on Green makes our ENTIRE defense better. Having someone who can at least force Durant to shoot jump shots, while having LeBron be able to help protect the rim, makes the Cavs defense significantly better.

Or putting Crowder on Curry and LeBron on KD will help the Cavs pick and roll defense.

Either way, Kyrie helped two years ago, but last year his low defensive IQ and effort was detrimental.