Shams: Cleveland and Boston have agreement on deal to send Kyrie Irving to the Celtics for Isaiah Thomas package to Cavs

[Psubs]

Boston fans seem pretty happy, but I just don't see them as a clear better team than us. If anything we are much deeper.

Incorrect, they are a MUCH deeper team then we are. We have WAY better stars though.

PG Kyrie - Rozier - Larkin
SG Smart - Brown - Nader
SF Hayward - Morris - Semi
PF Tatum - Yabusele
C Horford - Baynes

Boston is going to get destroyed on the boards. Hmmmm, they need another big. Trade Bebe for Semi!

[711takeover]

Just a friendly discussion (not trying to troll)

Can you take me into the reasoning on how Raptors have WAY better stars than the Celtics?

Lowry, Derozan, Ibaka > Kyrie, Hayward, Horford?

Again, just curious and not trolling. Just want a friendly basketball discussion

[PhilBlackson]

Just a friendly discussion (not trying to troll)

Can you take me into the reasoning on how Raptors have WAY better stars than the Celtics?

Lowry, Derozan, Ibaka > Kyrie, Hayward, Horford?

Again, just curious and not trolling. Just want a friendly basketball discussion

Ignore "Basketball_Jones", I'm almost certain that his overly optimistic posts that he does in general are just for trolling.

Almost all Raptor fans acknowledge that it's close between us and your team, some will say you're better and some will say that our team is. None of us will know for sure but personally I'm fairly confident BOS has a slight edge and as Tatum and Brown develop that gap will likely widen, not to mention when Danny finally deals the remaining picks for another star.

[Baller1234a]

Boston fans seem pretty happy, but I just don't see them as a clear better team than us. If anything we are much deeper.

Incorrect, they are a MUCH deeper team then we are. We have WAY better stars though.

Huh?

[PhilBlackson]

Boston fans seem pretty happy, but I just don't see them as a clear better team than us. If anything we are much deeper.

Incorrect, they are a MUCH deeper team then we are. We have WAY better stars though.

Huh?

Please see the post directly above yours.

[Baller1234a]

Incorrect, they are a MUCH deeper team then we are. We have WAY better stars though.

Huh?

Please see the post directly above yours.

My bad agreed with your post tho. Think our first 20ish games will be rough due to chemistry but come playoff time we will be more dangerous than last year by far

[PhilBlackson]

Huh?

Please see the post directly above yours.

My bad agreed with your post tho. Think our first 20ish games will be rough due to chemistry but come playoff time we will be more dangerous than last year by far

That's what I'm most interested in with your team because there are 2 polar opposite styles that will occur in your offense.

Kyrie's game is almost all iso/tunnel vision, big part of why he is yet to lead a team to anything near a winning record as the leader on the court. BUT of course Stevens found a way to negate that with a very similar player in IT however he also the complimentary players around IT weren't really scorers themselves...Hayward is (although I suspect it will be him and Horford that do most of the distributing) and Tatum is talented but seems to follow Kyrie's "Mamba"/sorry to say selfish mentality. It will be interesting to see how it pans out but again I think Stephens will figure it out via GH/AH. Biggest problem though is your team didn't address rebounding (actually got worse with Morris) or post defense (I know the game is more perimeter oriented but nonetheless you can't allow rim penetration hence your team's struggles with Wall and LeBron). You also lost 2 of your 3 best perimeter defenders in Bradley and Crowder which doesn't help. Smart isn't bad but he won't be able to handle the larger SFs and PFs like Crowder helped do.

[Baller1234a]

Please see the post directly above yours.

My bad agreed with your post tho. Think our first 20ish games will be rough due to chemistry but come playoff time we will be more dangerous than last year by far

That's what I'm most interested in with your team because there are 2 polar opposite styles that will occur in your offense.

Kyrie's game is almost all iso/tunnel vision, big part of why he is yet to lead a team to anything near a winning record as the leader on the court. BUT of course Stevens found a way to negate that with a very similar player in IT however he also the complimentary players around IT weren't really scorers themselves...Hayward is (although I suspect it will be him and Horford that do most of the distributing) and Tatum is talented but seems to follow Kyrie's "Mamba"/sorry to say selfish mentality. It will be interesting to see how it pans out but again I think Stephens will figure it out via GH/AH. Biggest problem though is your team didn't address rebounding (actually got worse with Morris) or post defense (I know the game is more perimeter oriented but nonetheless you can't allow rim penetration hence your team's struggles with Wall and LeBron). You also lost 2 of your 3 best perimeter defenders in Bradley and Crowder which doesn't help. Smart isn't bad but he won't be able to handle the larger SFs and PFs like Crowder helped do.

Morris was graded as the best lebron stopper last year so he would take over the Crowder role
Positions 1-3 (4 depending on the lineup) have gotten much bigger than last year IT and AB was too small last year and we got way bigger there which should help a little.
Agreed we need a rim protector and rebounder maybe someone like Noel who could be had for cheap?

[VanWest82]

People are sleeping on how good Boston is going to be this year and beyond. Kyrie is an imperfect player, and if he went to a team that asked him to be the primary creator for others, he might have been exposed. But that's not what happened.

Stevens runs an actual system, and has multiple play makers at his disposal to help get guys shots in their spots. Horford, in particular, is an outstanding play making big. Hayward and Smart are also above average, and Kyrie will be solid too when asked to make decisions within the context of their offense. If you thought IT looked great in Stevens's system, just wait until you see Kyrie unleashed in it. The only thing that will derail this is injuries, which given Kyrie's history is a possibility.

As far as defense/toughness, Smart/Brown/Morris/Horford/Baynes will all be prominent fixtures in the rotation, and Hayward is a very underrated defender also. These guys are going to be a legit threat to the Cavs this year.

[JShuttlesworth]

Just a friendly discussion (not trying to troll)

Can you take me into the reasoning on how Raptors have WAY better stars than the Celtics?

Lowry, Derozan, Ibaka > Kyrie, Hayward, Horford?

Again, just curious and not trolling. Just want a friendly basketball discussion

Ignore "Basketball_Jones", I'm almost certain that his overly optimistic posts that he does in general are just for trolling.

Almost all Raptor fans acknowledge that it's close between us and your team, some will say you're better and some will say that our team is. None of us will know for sure but personally I'm fairly confident BOS has a slight edge and as Tatum and Brown develop that gap will likely widen, not to mention when Danny finally deals the remaining picks for another star.

I've got to agree with PhilBlackson here, I think the majority of Raps fans think it's relatively even between the two teams, at least for this upcoming season. Lowry / DD / Ibaka vs. Irving / Hayward / Horford is pretty much a wash in my opinion. Boston took a small step back in terms of depth this year, but I really like Tatum as a prospect - I think he's going to be a legit scorer 2-3 years down the line he will probably be the best young prospect that develops from TOR/BOS.

Both teams are relying on young talent to provide depth, that is really going to be the key, how will those players step up. The thing that the Raptors have going for us is continuity.

[VanWest82]

Just a friendly discussion (not trying to troll)

Can you take me into the reasoning on how Raptors have WAY better stars than the Celtics?

Lowry, Derozan, Ibaka > Kyrie, Hayward, Horford?

Again, just curious and not trolling. Just want a friendly basketball discussion

Ignore "Basketball_Jones", I'm almost certain that his overly optimistic posts that he does in general are just for trolling.

Almost all Raptor fans acknowledge that it's close between us and your team, some will say you're better and some will say that our team is. None of us will know for sure but personally I'm fairly confident BOS has a slight edge and as Tatum and Brown develop that gap will likely widen, not to mention when Danny finally deals the remaining picks for another star.

Last year we were the better team regardless of what anyone says but this year I'm pretty confident Boston will be much better than us. Irving is just a perfect fit for Stevens's system. They have so much play making now with Horford, Hayward, Irving, Smart et. al, it's almost unfair, and unlike last year you can't just trap IT and force someone else to beat you.

They have better players top to bottom AND a much better coach and system. As much as I hate it, kudos to the Celtics fans.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

People are sleeping on how good Boston is going to be this year and beyond. Kyrie is an imperfect player, and if he went to a team that asked him to be the primary creator for others, he might have been exposed. But that's not what happened.

Stevens runs an actual system, and has multiple play makers at his disposal to help get guys shots in their spots. Horford, in particular, is an outstanding play making big. Hayward and Smart are also above average, and Kyrie will be solid too when asked to make decisions within the context of their offense. If you thought IT looked great in Stevens's system, just wait until you see Kyrie unleashed in it. The only thing that will derail this is injuries, which given Kyrie's history is a possibility.

As far as defense/toughness, Smart/Brown/Morris/Horford/Baynes will all be prominent fixtures in the rotation, and Hayward is a very underrated defender also. These guys are going to be a legit threat to the Cavs this year.

Stevens has 4 guys left over from last year, Horford only has 68 games under him. Him and Brown (2nd year) aren't going to be able to show the team how his system works, they barely understand it themselves at this point.

It's basiclly a fresh start, Ainge killed his system with all the trades.

Stevens is a great coach, but the season is around the corner. It's going to take them 20-30 games just to figure out roles and start to get the plays right. These guys have never played together, I would think they will be lost when camp starts.

[VanWest82]

People are sleeping on how good Boston is going to be this year and beyond. Kyrie is an imperfect player, and if he went to a team that asked him to be the primary creator for others, he might have been exposed. But that's not what happened.

Stevens runs an actual system, and has multiple play makers at his disposal to help get guys shots in their spots. Horford, in particular, is an outstanding play making big. Hayward and Smart are also above average, and Kyrie will be solid too when asked to make decisions within the context of their offense. If you thought IT looked great in Stevens's system, just wait until you see Kyrie unleashed in it. The only thing that will derail this is injuries, which given Kyrie's history is a possibility.

As far as defense/toughness, Smart/Brown/Morris/Horford/Baynes will all be prominent fixtures in the rotation, and Hayward is a very underrated defender also. These guys are going to be a legit threat to the Cavs this year.

Stevens has 4 guys left over from last year, Horford only has 68 games under him. Him and Brown (2nd year) aren't going to be able to show the team how his system works, they barely understand it themselves at this point.

It's basiclly a fresh start, Ainge killed his system with all the trades.

Stevens is a great coach, but the season is around the corner. It's going to take them 20-30 games just to figure out roles and start to get the plays right. These guys have never played together, I would think they will be lost when camp starts.

Solid point. They have lots of new bodies, and not a lot of institutional knowledge with the new guys (though I'd expect Hayward is probably at least somewhat familiar with what Stevens wants from their Butler days). It might take everyone 20 games to figure things out, but after that...look out.

[Gant]

People are sleeping on how good Boston is going to be this year and beyond. Kyrie is an imperfect player, and if he went to a team that asked him to be the primary creator for others, he might have been exposed. But that's not what happened.

Stevens runs an actual system, and has multiple play makers at his disposal to help get guys shots in their spots. Horford, in particular, is an outstanding play making big. Hayward and Smart are also above average, and Kyrie will be solid too when asked to make decisions within the context of their offense. If you thought IT looked great in Stevens's system, just wait until you see Kyrie unleashed in it. The only thing that will derail this is injuries, which given Kyrie's history is a possibility.

As far as defense/toughness, Smart/Brown/Morris/Horford/Baynes will all be prominent fixtures in the rotation, and Hayward is a very underrated defender also. These guys are going to be a legit threat to the Cavs this year.

Stevens has 4 guys left over from last year, Horford only has 68 games under him. Him and Brown (2nd year) aren't going to be able to show the team how his system works, they barely understand it themselves at this point.

It's basiclly a fresh start, Ainge killed his system with all the trades.

Stevens is a great coach, but the season is around the corner. It's going to take them 20-30 games just to figure out roles and start to get the plays right. These guys have never played together, I would think they will be lost when camp starts.

This is something to watch for, and no one knows how it's going to go early for them. Some teams in this situation put it together quickly. Others take a while.

Brad Stevens got this very question at the recent press conference. It's at about the 19:55 mark. Steve Bulpett hilariously says to Stevens, "You had a 53 win team last year and put it together, and Danny took the Rubik's cube and... smashed it. What's this like for you now trying to put this group together?"

Stevens seems like he's not rattled by the task:

Watch on YouTube

[Psubs]

Boston fans seem pretty happy, but I just don't see them as a clear better team than us. If anything we are much deeper.

Incorrect, they are a MUCH deeper team then we are. We have WAY better stars though.

PG Kyrie - Rozier - Larkin
SG Smart - Brown - Nader
SF Hayward - Morris - Semi
PF Tatum - Yabusele
C Horford - Baynes

Boston is going to get destroyed on the boards. Hmmmm, they need another big. Trade Bebe for Semi!

Forgot about Fultz!

PG Kyrie - Rozier - Larkin
SG Fultz - Smart - Nader
SF Hayward - Morris - Brown
PF Tatum - Bebe - Yabusele
C Horford - Baynes

[RonaldArtest]

Incorrect, they are a MUCH deeper team then we are. We have WAY better stars though.

PG Kyrie - Rozier - Larkin
SG Smart - Brown - Nader
SF Hayward - Morris - Semi
PF Tatum - Yabusele
C Horford - Baynes

Boston is going to get destroyed on the boards. Hmmmm, they need another big. Trade Bebe for Semi!

Forgot about Fultz!

PG Kyrie - Rozier - Larkin
SG Fultz - Smart - Nader
SF Hayward - Morris - Brown
PF Tatum - Bebe - Yabusele
C Horford - Baynes

Fultz will have a hard time playing starting SG for Boston in Philadelphia

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

People are sleeping on how good Boston is going to be this year and beyond. Kyrie is an imperfect player, and if he went to a team that asked him to be the primary creator for others, he might have been exposed. But that's not what happened.

Stevens runs an actual system, and has multiple play makers at his disposal to help get guys shots in their spots. Horford, in particular, is an outstanding play making big. Hayward and Smart are also above average, and Kyrie will be solid too when asked to make decisions within the context of their offense. If you thought IT looked great in Stevens's system, just wait until you see Kyrie unleashed in it. The only thing that will derail this is injuries, which given Kyrie's history is a possibility.

As far as defense/toughness, Smart/Brown/Morris/Horford/Baynes will all be prominent fixtures in the rotation, and Hayward is a very underrated defender also. These guys are going to be a legit threat to the Cavs this year.

Stevens has 4 guys left over from last year, Horford only has 68 games under him. Him and Brown (2nd year) aren't going to be able to show the team how his system works, they barely understand it themselves at this point.

It's basiclly a fresh start, Ainge killed his system with all the trades.

Stevens is a great coach, but the season is around the corner. It's going to take them 20-30 games just to figure out roles and start to get the plays right. These guys have never played together, I would think they will be lost when camp starts.

This is something to watch for, and no one knows how it's going to go early for them. Some teams in this situation put it together quickly. Others take a while.

Brad Stevens got this very question at the recent press conference. It's at about the 19:55 mark. Steve Bulpett hilariously says to Stevens, "You had a 53 win team last year and put it together, and Danny took the Rubik's cube and... smashed it. What's this like for you now trying to put this group together?"

Stevens seems like he's not rattled by the task:

Watch on YouTube

Stevens' system is simple. He's not running an intricate offence like the outdated triangle. His offence is based around movement and spacing. It shouldn't be that difficult to teach. However, with that being said, Brad does like to tinker with lineups. Would not be surprised to see the Cs at or below .500 after the 1st month.

[VanWest82]

Forgot about Fultz!

PG Kyrie - Rozier - Larkin
SG Fultz - Smart - Nader
SF Hayward - Morris - Brown
PF Tatum - Bebe - Yabusele
C Horford - Baynes

Fultz is on the 76ers. That's how the Celtics got Tatum in the draft. Also, bet they eventually go to playing Hayward at the 2 and start Brown. SL will be Kyrie, Hayward, Brown, Morris, and Horford with Rozier, Smart, Tatum, and Baynes off the bench.

[OAKLEY_2]

It is pretty interesting where Boston's roster is now. Very Daryl Morey. Not sure Kyrie/Hayward are near Chris Paul/Harden but the plans look similar. Accumulate assets, go apesht clearing space, pounce on any opportunity. Starting 5 is everything-only-thing and make sure there are entry level - slash cheap contracts to fill out the roster. Ainge has done this spending less so far than the Raps. The thing is when you have to gas Avery Bradley for space and lose Crowder only time will dictate whether or not he actually maximized these assets he worked so hard accumulating. Irving, Smart at point guard are very pretty nice, so much so I feel really bad for Rozier. Boston also now has a stellar small forward which is the Raptor black hole position since we entered our first draft with our penalty for joining non Iverson pick. Yes bitter is what we Rapz fans do best.

MU has one thing over Ainge that I can clearly see. He is not as erratic in the draft department and he covets palyer character above all else and subscibes to roster continuity even when he makes some noise about culture change. Many might think that is a risk averse losing strategy but we only finished two games back of a pretty promising Boston team part 1 and KL was in a suit for a big chunk of the season home stretch. It is anybody's guess if that two games changes any this coming season when up against part 2 which is a complete overhaul.

Ainge has set the clock for five years to try and make noise. Ours is apparently set to three years.

[Kurtz]

Boston also now has a stellar small forward which is the Raptor black hole position since we entered our first draft with our penalty for joining non Iverson pick. Yes bitter is what we Rapz fans do best.

Well...Vince and Tracy. Doug Christie put in time. JYD was usable. MoPete. The 2/3 has pretty good for us until recently.