Moderators: Rich Rane, NyCeEvO
Mosdefinition wrote:The Cavs are trying to trade the nets pick does anyone think we realistically have anything to offer to get that pick
Like some combo of Lin Booker rhj skill
Plus taking back Tristan and and iman or jr
MrDollarBills wrote:kamaze wrote:Ror1997 wrote:Its all because of his dad. People are twisting his words trying to make him Lavar 2.0. I feel sorry for the kid because his dad will always have a negative impact on his career.
I get your point but his dad didn't say it he did. He deserves all the backlash for disrespecting a legend.
if it wasn't for his dad being polarizing, no one would have given two hoots about Lonzo saying this. Ror is right imo.
If Lonzo ever gets caught speeding or is shown out in a club or something, the media will react like vultures. I don't have any beef with the kid. I think his dad has the right idea deep down, but his execution/timing/media savy is horrible, he comes across as a blowhard. I also think he's an idiot after the statement about "those slow white kids" being the reason UCLA got knocked out of the NCAAs when Lonzo was getting his lunch eaten and on top of the fact that his wife is white which makes him look like a bigot. All of that stuff is either going to help boost Lonzo's profile if he succeeds and keeps his nose clean, or it will help capitulate his downfall harder if Lonzo doesn't play well over the next 2 years or somehow lands himself into some controversy. And the controversy could be something trivial but the media will amplify it. Look at how Odell Beckham Jr. is treated. The guy is for all purposes a model citizen, but because he is emotional and flamboyant the media turns everything that happens with him into a 1st degree crime. This is the bad side to being polarizing...your own opinion can be taken and used a ammunition against you. I think the outrage is silly. he's a dumb ass kid who probably never listens to anything that wasn't made before 2010
MrDollarBills wrote:TheNetsFan wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:^best overall player in the league, as in most skilled and dominant. the top dog of their generation, as in, the best player in the sport bar none in their prime.
Jordan, Kobe, Lebron
You can make an argument for Duncan easily. Bryant was a beast though and more skilled overall.
Top dog of their generation? In my opinion, the only thing Kobe was ever top dog of is the all time over-rated list. He was a great player, but he's a stretch as the best player of his generation, let alone belonging in the conversation of best players all time.
Outside of Tim Duncan, who in his generation starting with the class of 1994 and ending with the class of 2004 is better than Kobe Bryant?
I'm not even going to bring up things like win shares, career PER or any other of his numerous accolades. If you're going to say right off the bat that the 3rd leading scoring in NBA history isn't in the conversation of best players of all time, you're going to immediately paint yourself into a corner.
MrDollarBills wrote:^best overall player in the league, as in most skilled and dominant. the top dog of their generation, as in, the best player in the sport bar none in their prime.
Jordan, Kobe, Lebron
You can make an argument for Duncan easily. Bryant was a beast though and more skilled overall.
MrDollarBills wrote:^best overall player in the league, as in most skilled and dominant. the top dog of their generation, as in, the best player in the sport bar none in their prime.
Jordan, Kobe, Lebron
You can make an argument for Duncan easily. Bryant was a beast though and more skilled overall.
Hello Brooklyn wrote:Thats def not true. Kobe was never the best player in the NBA.
It was Shaq-Duncan and then Lebron.
Kobe is not even close to the best player after Jordan. Hes not even top 3 best player after MJ.
TheNetsFan wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:TheNetsFan wrote:Top dog of their generation? In my opinion, the only thing Kobe was ever top dog of is the all time over-rated list. He was a great player, but he's a stretch as the best player of his generation, let alone belonging in the conversation of best players all time.
Outside of Tim Duncan, who in his generation starting with the class of 1994 and ending with the class of 2004 is better than Kobe Bryant?
I'm not even going to bring up things like win shares, career PER or any other of his numerous accolades. If you're going to say right off the bat that the 3rd leading scoring in NBA history isn't in the conversation of best players of all time, you're going to immediately paint yourself into a corner.
Starting with 92, I'd take Shaq, Duncan, KG, Lebron & if you want to believe the numbers, Wade over Kobe. There are others who were limited by injuries that you could argue were/could have ranked better than Kobe had they been healthier.
Not counting ABA:
Want to talk single season PER? His best season ranks as the 60th best season of all time in terms of PER.
Career PER? He's 23rd.
Best Single Season Win Share? 225th
Career Win Share per 48? 56th
He was a great player, with greater hype and marketing in a huge market with lots of help. What he isn't is in the Jordan/Lebron/Kareem/Chamberlain... conversation.
Hello Brooklyn wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:^best overall player in the league, as in most skilled and dominant. the top dog of their generation, as in, the best player in the sport bar none in their prime.
Jordan, Kobe, Lebron
You can make an argument for Duncan easily. Bryant was a beast though and more skilled overall.
Thats def not ture. Kobe was never the best player in the NBA.
It was Shaq-Duncan and then Lebron.
Kobe is not even close to the best player after Jordan. Hes not even top 3 best player after MJ.
TheNetsFan wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:TheNetsFan wrote:Top dog of their generation? In my opinion, the only thing Kobe was ever top dog of is the all time over-rated list. He was a great player, but he's a stretch as the best player of his generation, let alone belonging in the conversation of best players all time.
Outside of Tim Duncan, who in his generation starting with the class of 1994 and ending with the class of 2004 is better than Kobe Bryant?
I'm not even going to bring up things like win shares, career PER or any other of his numerous accolades. If you're going to say right off the bat that the 3rd leading scoring in NBA history isn't in the conversation of best players of all time, you're going to immediately paint yourself into a corner.
Starting with 92, I'd take Shaq, Duncan, KG, Lebron & if you want to believe the numbers, Wade over Kobe. There are others who were limited by injuries that you could argue were/could have ranked better than Kobe had they been healthier.
Not counting ABA:
Want to talk single season PER? His best season ranks as the 60th best season of all time in terms of PER.
Career PER? He's 23rd.
Best Single Season Win Share? 225th
Career Win Share per 48? 56th
He was a great player, with greater hype and marketing in a huge market with lots of help. What he isn't is in the Jordan/Lebron/Kareem/Chamberlain... conversation.
MrDollarBills wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:^best overall player in the league, as in most skilled and dominant. the top dog of their generation, as in, the best player in the sport bar none in their prime.
Jordan, Kobe, Lebron
You can make an argument for Duncan easily. Bryant was a beast though and more skilled overall.
Thats def not ture. Kobe was never the best player in the NBA.
It was Shaq-Duncan and then Lebron.
Kobe is not even close to the best player after Jordan. Hes not even top 3 best player after MJ.
Name your top 10 after Jordan.
yall are talking about this dude like he's some bum
MrDollarBills wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:^best overall player in the league, as in most skilled and dominant. the top dog of their generation, as in, the best player in the sport bar none in their prime.
Jordan, Kobe, Lebron
You can make an argument for Duncan easily. Bryant was a beast though and more skilled overall.
Thats def not ture. Kobe was never the best player in the NBA.
It was Shaq-Duncan and then Lebron.
Kobe is not even close to the best player after Jordan. Hes not even top 3 best player after MJ.
Name your top 10 after Jordan.
yall are talking about this dude like he's some bum
shakendfries wrote:TheNetsFan wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:
Outside of Tim Duncan, who in his generation starting with the class of 1994 and ending with the class of 2004 is better than Kobe Bryant?
I'm not even going to bring up things like win shares, career PER or any other of his numerous accolades. If you're going to say right off the bat that the 3rd leading scoring in NBA history isn't in the conversation of best players of all time, you're going to immediately paint yourself into a corner.
Starting with 92, I'd take Shaq, Duncan, KG, Lebron & if you want to believe the numbers, Wade over Kobe. There are others who were limited by injuries that you could argue were/could have ranked better than Kobe had they been healthier.
Not counting ABA:
Want to talk single season PER? His best season ranks as the 60th best season of all time in terms of PER.
Career PER? He's 23rd.
Best Single Season Win Share? 225th
Career Win Share per 48? 56th
He was a great player, with greater hype and marketing in a huge market with lots of help. What he isn't is in the Jordan/Lebron/Kareem/Chamberlain... conversation.
'never the best player in the league'
Hello Brooklyn wrote:shakendfries wrote:TheNetsFan wrote:Starting with 92, I'd take Shaq, Duncan, KG, Lebron & if you want to believe the numbers, Wade over Kobe. There are others who were limited by injuries that you could argue were/could have ranked better than Kobe had they been healthier.
Not counting ABA:
Want to talk single season PER? His best season ranks as the 60th best season of all time in terms of PER.
Career PER? He's 23rd.
Best Single Season Win Share? 225th
Career Win Share per 48? 56th
He was a great player, with greater hype and marketing in a huge market with lots of help. What he isn't is in the Jordan/Lebron/Kareem/Chamberlain... conversation.
'never the best player in the league'
Wow so posting a bunch of highlight videos proves that he was the best player in the league?
I can do that with Carmelo Anthony too. It literally means nothing.
When am I supposed to believe Kobe was the best player in the league?
It was definitely Shaq until 2005. And then it was LeBron from 07 on. Maybe you can give Kobe that gap year in 2006, but its debatable.
mademan wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Thats def not ture. Kobe was never the best player in the NBA.
It was Shaq-Duncan and then Lebron.
Kobe is not even close to the best player after Jordan. Hes not even top 3 best player after MJ.
Name your top 10 after Jordan.
yall are talking about this dude like he's some bum
Not a bum, and I have him top 10, but you could easily argue him not there. He's certainly not in the Jordan/Lebron/Kareem tier, after that I have Shaq/Duncan/Wilt/Magic/Bird/Russell in some order. Thats 9 right there, that I think were clearly better than Kobe (except maybe Bird,and only because of his lack of longevity. He was clearly better at his best).
After that, you can make arguments for plenty of guys at 10, even though I have Kobe there, I don't think its ridiculous to have him outside it
MrDollarBills wrote:mademan wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:
Name your top 10 after Jordan.
yall are talking about this dude like he's some bum
Not a bum, and I have him top 10, but you could easily argue him not there. He's certainly not in the Jordan/Lebron/Kareem tier, after that I have Shaq/Duncan/Wilt/Magic/Bird/Russell in some order. Thats 9 right there, that I think were clearly better than Kobe (except maybe Bird,and only because of his lack of longevity. He was clearly better at his best).
After that, you can make arguments for plenty of guys at 10, even though I have Kobe there, I don't think its ridiculous to have him outside it
Who are you pushing Bryant out for? Oscar? Jerry West?
pound for pound skill wise the only people better on that list arguably are Jordan and Lebron. I'm not just counting accolades, I'm talking about pure overall basketball skill as a player. This may be biased, but i can't count your skill level to be above those three if you need someone to dump the ball inside to you for you to be able to be effective.
Now, toss accolades/accomplishments into the equation and yes, i definitely take Kareem and Jordan 1st and foremost over anyone.
mademan wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:mademan wrote:
Not a bum, and I have him top 10, but you could easily argue him not there. He's certainly not in the Jordan/Lebron/Kareem tier, after that I have Shaq/Duncan/Wilt/Magic/Bird/Russell in some order. Thats 9 right there, that I think were clearly better than Kobe (except maybe Bird,and only because of his lack of longevity. He was clearly better at his best).
After that, you can make arguments for plenty of guys at 10, even though I have Kobe there, I don't think its ridiculous to have him outside it
Who are you pushing Bryant out for? Oscar? Jerry West?
pound for pound skill wise the only people better on that list arguably are Jordan and Lebron. I'm not just counting accolades, I'm talking about pure overall basketball skill as a player. This may be biased, but i can't count your skill level to be above those three if you need someone to dump the ball inside to you for you to be able to be effective.
Now, toss accolades/accomplishments into the equation and yes, i definitely take Kareem and Jordan 1st and foremost over anyone.
Efficacy matters more than skill, and in that regard, many players are over Kobe. Kyrie is more skilled than Curry, but the one thing Curry does better than him (amongst others), he does at a ridiculous level.
5× NBA champion (2000–2002, 2009, 2010)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2009, 2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)
18× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2016)
4× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009, 2011)
11× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2013)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2000, 2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2000, 2003, 2004, 2006–2011)
3× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2001, 2002, 2012)
2× NBA scoring champion (2006, 2007)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (1997)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1997)
Naismith Prep Player of the Year (1996)
shakendfries wrote:mademan wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:
Who are you pushing Bryant out for? Oscar? Jerry West?
pound for pound skill wise the only people better on that list arguably are Jordan and Lebron. I'm not just counting accolades, I'm talking about pure overall basketball skill as a player. This may be biased, but i can't count your skill level to be above those three if you need someone to dump the ball inside to you for you to be able to be effective.
Now, toss accolades/accomplishments into the equation and yes, i definitely take Kareem and Jordan 1st and foremost over anyone.
Efficacy matters more than skill, and in that regard, many players are over Kobe. Kyrie is more skilled than Curry, but the one thing Curry does better than him (amongst others), he does at a ridiculous level.
ultimately results matter more than efficacy5× NBA champion (2000–2002, 2009, 2010)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2009, 2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)
18× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2016)
4× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009, 2011)
11× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2013)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2000, 2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2000, 2003, 2004, 2006–2011)
3× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2001, 2002, 2012)
2× NBA scoring champion (2006, 2007)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (1997)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1997)
Naismith Prep Player of the Year (1996)
shakendfries wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:shakendfries wrote:
'never the best player in the league'
Wow so posting a bunch of highlight videos proves that he was the best player in the league?
I can do that with Carmelo Anthony too. It literally means nothing.
When am I supposed to believe Kobe was the best player in the league?
It was definitely Shaq until 2005. And then it was LeBron from 07 on. Maybe you can give Kobe that gap year in 2006, but its debatable.
I provided a link to 9 +40 point playoff performances against pretty much every team in the Western Conference that was unable to surpass Kobe in his prime (including teams led by a prime Duncan, Weber, Deron, Melo, TMac, Nash, & the KD/Westbrook/Harden Thunder). If you can compile a similar list for Melo, please do.
I guess these will be the same arguments they'll use to say Steph was "never the best player in the league" through his career, right?