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Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 1

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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#821 » by bwgood77 » Wed Sep 6, 2017 2:40 pm

NavLDO wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:LeBron can't be traded. It's dumb to trade for a FA who you could sign (if by some chance he wanted to play for a bottom feeder, particularly one if we traded players for him).


I explained this in my original post. He can be traded, if he wills it. If he feels he would save face. Maybe I'm off on that assertion, but trading for him assured us of getting him, as opposed to competing with 28 other teams.

He might be willing to play with Bledsoe and Booker, and then play the ' I didn't leave' card. I was traded because the FO wanted to start a rebuild.


Assured us of getting him for a year. This is a pointless exercise of discussion anyway. We won't be trading for LeBron.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#822 » by sasquatchBob » Wed Sep 6, 2017 3:16 pm

So far Dragic is the best scorer in Eurobasket, plus Slovenia still hasn't lost a game in the tournament. He has the winner mentality in him. Wherever he plays, the team is relevant. What he did last season with Heat is quite comparable to our 48 win season, in which he also played a huge part. Both of these teams came from nowhere and surprised everyone.

I wish we had kept Dragic out of all 3 point guards.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#823 » by Bogyo » Wed Sep 6, 2017 5:24 pm

sasquatchBob wrote:So far Dragic is the best scorer in Eurobasket, plus Slovenia still hasn't lost a game in the tournament. He has the winner mentality in him. Wherever he plays, the team is relevant. What he did last season with Heat is quite comparable to our 48 win season, in which he also played a huge part. Both of these teams came from nowhere and surprised everyone.

I wish we had kept Dragic out of all 3 point guards.


Same here, but we're gonna catch all kind of hell for this. :D

(grabs popcorn)
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#824 » by Saberestar » Wed Sep 6, 2017 5:59 pm

Yeah, I loved Dragic when he was a Sun...but the past is in the past.

I am really happy with our young core now, so no regrets here.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#825 » by Waylay13 » Wed Sep 6, 2017 7:01 pm

NavLDO wrote:How about we go a little further back...probably before you were born, to 1992, when we made this trade for this scrub, I think his name was Charles Barkley, or something like that...all he did was help us get to the Finals the next season, who eventually lost to the best NBA player ever to grace the court in Jordan, so...


Yes I remember this season very well and I even remember the seasons before it. We had built a core Kevin Johnson, Dan Marjerle, Jeff Hornacek, Mark West and Tom Chambers; in other words a team that made it to the second round of the playoffs. We went out and got Barkley and signed Ainge to push us to the next level. Now if we were to trade for Lebron and give away the pieces that you list the very best that we could hope that do next season to be a early exit in the playoffs and when Lebron leaves we would be back in the lottery looking for replace JJ and Warren. I dont know what Bender is going to turn out to be but he was the injuried and was the youngest player in the NBA last year maybe we should give him a little time to see if he can develop some more.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#826 » by bwgood77 » Wed Sep 6, 2017 7:31 pm

Waylay13 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:How about we go a little further back...probably before you were born, to 1992, when we made this trade for this scrub, I think his name was Charles Barkley, or something like that...all he did was help us get to the Finals the next season, who eventually lost to the best NBA player ever to grace the court in Jordan, so...


Yes I remember this season very well and I even remember the seasons before it. We had built a core Kevin Johnson, Dan Marjerle, Jeff Hornacek, Mark West and Tom Chambers; in other words a team that made it to the second round of the playoffs. We went out and got Barkley and signed Ainge to push us to the next level. Now if we were to trade for Lebron and give away the pieces that you list the very best that we could hope that do next season to be a early exit in the playoffs and when Lebron leaves we would be back in the lottery looking for replace JJ and Warren. I dont know what Bender is going to turn out to be but he was the injuried and was the youngest player in the NBA last year maybe we should give him a little time to see if he can develop some more.


That team made it to the WCF twice before getting Barkley and only made it once with him. They were VERY far from the worst team in the West.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#827 » by NavLDO » Wed Sep 6, 2017 8:39 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:LeBron can't be traded. It's dumb to trade for a FA who you could sign (if by some chance he wanted to play for a bottom feeder, particularly one if we traded players for him).


I explained this in my original post. He can be traded, if he wills it. If he feels he would save face. Maybe I'm off on that assertion, but trading for him assured us of getting him, as opposed to competing with 28 other teams.

He might be willing to play with Bledsoe and Booker, and then play the ' I didn't leave' card. I was traded because the FO wanted to start a rebuild.


Assured us of getting him for a year. This is a pointless exercise of discussion anyway. We won't be trading for LeBron.


"This is a pointless exercise of discussion anyway." -- Ah yes, the BW special. Distraction. Rather than admit that he misspoke, or that he was wrong, he calls someones post "pointless", and moves on.

"It's dumb to trade for a FA who you could sign..." -- Well, duh. Problem is, LeBron's not a FA.

But yes, there is a strong chance that "We won't be trading for LeBron." But not because McD wouldn't want to, it's because we don't likely have the right kind of ammo...
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#828 » by bwgood77 » Wed Sep 6, 2017 8:45 pm

NavLDO wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
I explained this in my original post. He can be traded, if he wills it. If he feels he would save face. Maybe I'm off on that assertion, but trading for him assured us of getting him, as opposed to competing with 28 other teams.

He might be willing to play with Bledsoe and Booker, and then play the ' I didn't leave' card. I was traded because the FO wanted to start a rebuild.


Assured us of getting him for a year. This is a pointless exercise of discussion anyway. We won't be trading for LeBron.


"This is a pointless exercise of discussion anyway." -- Ah yes, the BW special. Distraction. Rather than admit that he misspoke, or that he was wrong, he calls someones post "pointless", and moves on.

"It's dumb to trade for a FA who you could sign..." -- Well, duh. Problem is, LeBron's not a FA.

But yes, there is a strong chance that "We won't be trading for LeBron." But not because McD wouldn't want to, it's because we don't likely have the right kind of ammo...


Report: LeBron James not willing to waive no-trade clause for any team in 2017-18
Don't even think about it -- LeBron's reportedly not going anywhere


No matter the reconstruction of the Cleveland Cavaliers' roster, no matter the potential for heightened inner turmoil, no matter the win-loss record, and with or without Kyrie Irving, LeBron James will not waive his no-trade clause for any teams at any point during the 2017-18 season, league sources tell ESPN.


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-lebron-james-not-willing-to-waive-no-trade-clause-for-any-team-in-2017-18/
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#829 » by bwgood77 » Wed Sep 6, 2017 8:48 pm

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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#830 » by Saberestar » Wed Sep 6, 2017 8:48 pm

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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#831 » by NavLDO » Wed Sep 6, 2017 8:55 pm

Waylay13 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:How about we go a little further back...probably before you were born, to 1992, when we made this trade for this scrub, I think his name was Charles Barkley, or something like that...all he did was help us get to the Finals the next season, who eventually lost to the best NBA player ever to grace the court in Jordan, so...


Yes I remember this season very well and I even remember the seasons before it. We had built a core Kevin Johnson, Dan Marjerle, Jeff Hornacek, Mark West and Tom Chambers; in other words a team that made it to the second round of the playoffs. We went out and got Barkley and signed Ainge to push us to the next level. Now if we were to trade for Lebron and give away the pieces that you list the very best that we could hope that do next season to be a early exit in the playoffs and when Lebron leaves we would be back in the lottery looking for replace JJ and Warren. I dont know what Bender is going to turn out to be but he was the injuried and was the youngest player in the NBA last year maybe we should give him a little time to see if he can develop some more.


Yet it was STILL a better example than your example of us trading a pick for a future pick and a nobody...where you came up with that stellar example, I have no idea...has absolutely ZERO in common with what I proposed...

Is that the very best we could hope for?? With Bledsoe, Booker, and LeBron? With Shumpert's D, Chriss improving, and Len and/or Sauce, plus Frye? Not to mention Ulis?

I know; everyone here is enamored with every other team in the West but ours, yet out of the other side of your mouths, we have the next Kawhi in JJ, the next Klay in Booker, an underrated Bledsoe, and then we add in the rest and we are going to stink up the joint? If Bledsoe, Booker, and the best player in the NBA nets us an early exit, I'd be shocked. When was the last time a LeBron led team exited early? And who actually thinks we wouldn;t pick up another star-ish player before the trade deadline if we did trade for LeBron.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#832 » by Saberestar » Wed Sep 6, 2017 9:07 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
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Hunter is in the photo that I posted. Between DJJ and James Jones.

He is a good shooter...but nothing else.
I would prefer to give Jok an opportunity as a backup SG
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#833 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Sep 6, 2017 9:15 pm

Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Read on Twitter

Hunter is in the photo that I posted. Between DJJ and James Jones.

He is a good shooter...but nothing else.
I would prefer to give Jok an opportunity as a backup SG


RJ Hunter?? Daaang. Tank game strong.

... No matter how good JJ and Booker are, looks like McD will do his best to make sure this team gets creamed in the regular season. Nothing but Bledsoe, Chandler, and a pile of baby ballers.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#834 » by bwgood77 » Wed Sep 6, 2017 9:23 pm

Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
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Hunter is in the photo that I posted. Between DJJ and James Jones.

He is a good shooter...but nothing else.
I would prefer to give Jok an opportunity as a backup SG


Yeah, he's really not that good of a shooter, to say the least.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hunterj01.html

In college he was a decent shooter as a sophomore, but that's about it.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#835 » by AtheJ415 » Wed Sep 6, 2017 10:39 pm

The difference I see with the draft v. trade everyone for stars today group is that one actually has a shot at working while the other just conveniently ignores that GS was already arguably the greatest team of all time before adding a top 3 player in all of basketball to it. Thus, if the goal is to win a title, doing anything other than rebuilding through youth makes 0 sense because almost nobody has a shot to contend with GS in the next few years and certainly not a team as far away as ours is, particularly when the rest of the West is so deep that we likely wouldn't be adding playoff experience to the youth, which would at least have some forward-thinking value. The odds of these trades for mid 30s stars actually working are so tiny that a team that is already in rebuild mode and that is most likely going to lose anyways until its youth develops should not be reversing course and just saying, "F it, let's beat the greatest team of all time". The odds are just so freaking bad. I cannot rap my head around anybody who isn't so old or sick that they are worried about dying in the next few years wanting that option.

I see an absolute best case scenario of this team adding Cousins and Paul George, but realistically it would probably be just Cousins. Even in the imagined dream state where we somehow added Lebron freaking James while keeping Booker (only giving up Jackson), I still don't think a team of Bled, Booker, and even if we added 2 of George, James, and Cousins beats GS. That team doesn't have the shooting needed imo and you have Lebron who is 35 at that point. In fact, I think at best you are talking about a 3 or 4 seed in the West because Houston and SA have better coaching, talent, etc. even still at that point.

I am all for adding a star who makes sense age-wise (which is why I am not opposed to Cousins at the right price and was willing to trade anything but Booker for Porzingis). I am not for adding any 35 year old no matter how good because I don't think it makes any sense to be banking on any 35 year old being particularly useful when he is 37-40, and that is probably the timeframe for GS to start to fall apart, and that is therefore the earliest I would imagine us going all in for contention.

I don't understand why this debate is even continuing, because our FO has already very clearly picked a direction. We pulled out of the Milsap sweepstakes and chose to go for youth. We then were said to be looking for using our cap space for adding additional youth or picks. We then were involved in the Kyrie sweepstakes, but that is because he is only 25 and thus fits the rebuild narrative. Hell, he would have arguably been the 2nd key piece to the rebuild only behind Booker due to age. It was not an about-face signalling we were going to try to contend today.

So why in the hell is adding Lebron still a topic for us? Lebron isn't going to leave Cleveland for any place that isn't a contender. Lebron isn't so stupid to think that just because we have James Jones and Bled, that we are somehow going to contend with him better than SA, LAC, LAL (with RW or PG in toe), or Houston, all of which will be options for him. And Lebron fully realizes his age. I doubt he wants to play forever, and even if he believed he could contend in 5 years in the NBA, why would he waste 3 of them on a promise by Phoenix to TRY to trade for guys when he can go to SA today and join the best coach of our time, Kawhi, and probably CP3 as well in that scenario?

Our best chance to add someone via FA or trade who would command a max are 1 next offseason and then 1 more the following (before Booker hits RFA). Thus, we need to target youth who are okay waiting another year for their running mate. Lebron just makes 0 sense. If James Jones was THAT valuable such that Lebron was going to follow him and Bled, then we might as well tell Lebron to go elsewhere and trade both to said team for a ransom because that would be the better call.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#836 » by Waylay13 » Wed Sep 6, 2017 11:44 pm

NavLDO wrote:
Waylay13 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:How about we go a little further back...probably before you were born, to 1992, when we made this trade for this scrub, I think his name was Charles Barkley, or something like that...all he did was help us get to the Finals the next season, who eventually lost to the best NBA player ever to grace the court in Jordan, so...


Yes I remember this season very well and I even remember the seasons before it. We had built a core Kevin Johnson, Dan Marjerle, Jeff Hornacek, Mark West and Tom Chambers; in other words a team that made it to the second round of the playoffs. We went out and got Barkley and signed Ainge to push us to the next level. Now if we were to trade for Lebron and give away the pieces that you list the very best that we could hope that do next season to be a early exit in the playoffs and when Lebron leaves we would be back in the lottery looking for replace JJ and Warren. I dont know what Bender is going to turn out to be but he was the injuried and was the youngest player in the NBA last year maybe we should give him a little time to see if he can develop some more.


Yet it was STILL a better example than your example of us trading a pick for a future pick and a nobody...where you came up with that stellar example, I have no idea...has absolutely ZERO in common with what I proposed...

Is that the very best we could hope for?? With Bledsoe, Booker, and LeBron? With Shumpert's D, Chriss improving, and Len and/or Sauce, plus Frye? Not to mention Ulis?

I know; everyone here is enamored with every other team in the West but ours, yet out of the other side of your mouths, we have the next Kawhi in JJ, the next Klay in Booker, an underrated Bledsoe, and then we add in the rest and we are going to stink up the joint? If Bledsoe, Booker, and the best player in the NBA nets us an early exit, I'd be shocked. When was the last time a LeBron led team exited early? And who actually thinks we wouldn;t pick up another star-ish player before the trade deadline if we did trade for LeBron.


Yea I guess you missed the simple point of you have to have a core of players before you can add those final missing pieces. You want to give away the core in hopes that you might convince the final piece to stay.

Personally I expect that the suns will be looking at a 28 to 30 win season this year. I expect that JJ will average 12.5 pts, 7 rbs, 2 ass, 1 blk and 1 stl a game this year (not anywhere to superstar numbers). I do however expect that he will have an impact on his teammates playing defense. Right now I view Booker more of an Allen Houston player (very good scorer but not much else to use game). I still see that he can continue to grow as a player as he has make so much progress since he came into the NBA. I view Bledsoe as a near All star guard but would really shine with a player that can take the ball out of his hands and be the distributor (can JJ be this? Not this year). Chriss needs to learn and focus on being a rebounder if not he is going to be little more then a tweener in that he has outside game but doesnt bring anything else to the table.

The real problem with the suns is that they are in the age of the superteams in the west we have golden state, houston, clippers, spurs, Timberwolves, and portland who are all better then the suns and more experienced even with Lebron. Suns best path is simply to wait out the superteams and try to build a team that is ready to step up once they start to fade.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#837 » by RaisingArizona » Thu Sep 7, 2017 12:35 am

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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#838 » by Mulhollanddrive » Thu Sep 7, 2017 1:10 am

RJ Hunter played well against Booker in a SL game from memory.

I still like Peter Jok he has a high quick release for a 3 point specialist.

Whoever it is has important job otherwise Watson will play Booker for 40 minutes.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#839 » by Saberestar » Thu Sep 7, 2017 10:12 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:RJ Hunter played well against Booker in a SL game from memory.

I still like Peter Jok he has a high quick release for a 3 point specialist.

Whoever it is has important job otherwise Watson will play Booker for 40 minutes.

I think that Hunter or Jok are gonna be important for the team if we are talking about depth, but the more I think about it the more I realize that we are gonna go 9 men deep in the rotation at the beginning of the season.

We need to give Ulis and Warren (or Jackson) a good amount of minutes if both come from the bench, so our rotation would be something like....

Bledsoe/Ulis
Booker/ (Jackson or Bledsoe)
Jackson/Warren
Chriss/Bender
Chandler/Sauce

I know that we need shooting, but it's what it's. Hopefully our youngsters improve on that area.
In a month we can add Dudley to the rotation to have better spacing if any of our frontcourt players is playing terrible basketball.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#840 » by NavLDO » Thu Sep 7, 2017 11:17 am

bwgood77 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Assured us of getting him for a year. This is a pointless exercise of discussion anyway. We won't be trading for LeBron.


"This is a pointless exercise of discussion anyway." -- Ah yes, the BW special. Distraction. Rather than admit that he misspoke, or that he was wrong, he calls someones post "pointless", and moves on.

"It's dumb to trade for a FA who you could sign..." -- Well, duh. Problem is, LeBron's not a FA.

But yes, there is a strong chance that "We won't be trading for LeBron." But not because McD wouldn't want to, it's because we don't likely have the right kind of ammo...


Report: LeBron James not willing to waive no-trade clause for any team in 2017-18
Don't even think about it -- LeBron's reportedly not going anywhere


No matter the reconstruction of the Cleveland Cavaliers' roster, no matter the potential for heightened inner turmoil, no matter the win-loss record, and with or without Kyrie Irving, LeBron James will not waive his no-trade clause for any teams at any point during the 2017-18 season, league sources tell ESPN.


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-lebron-james-not-willing-to-waive-no-trade-clause-for-any-team-in-2017-18/


Him saying he won't entertain being traded is a lot different than "can't" be traded. And a lot can change in a month and a half, which is how old this article is. Do you know how many times reporters report things, and get it wrong? Like...a lot...and again, go back and re-read my original post. I understand the concept of a no trade clause, and LeBron's unwillingness to be traded. But now that Kyrie is gone, and the only return is a broken IT, a draft pick, and a really good player that happens to play the same position he does, well, he might change his mind, since those acquisitions actually 'weaken' the team, this year. When circumstances change, in some cases, intentions change.

And how many other discussions on this forum have taken place that went against the grain of likely reality, yet never received the "pointless exercise" moniker from you, huh??? Umm, like how about every trade proposal on this forum.

It's obvious you are still 'butt-hurt' from your hyperbolic statement of how rare it is for a rookie NBA player to be good on D, that you kept changing the parameters over several posts to finally stating how rare it is for 'a rookie-WING-that-ONLY-came-in-during-X-period-that-MAY-or-MAY-NOT-EVEN-STAY-in-the-NBA' conversation we had...making every attempt possible not to have to say you misspoke, and when that didn't work, then ending it whining about how I scared everybody away, which was refuted by AtheJ immediately afterwards...OOPS...and how I somehow proved your point, but you were not going to explain how, because if I couldn't see it, well, then...I love that a tactic...in fact, I'll use it now...thanks for posting those, since they proved my point; if you can't see how, well, I'm not going to bother trying to explain it to you...(funny thing is, this actually works for me in this case!)

Read my signature line...what you said was W-R-O-N-G, WRONG. LeBron CAN be traded...whether he desires to be traded is another point all together. Korver, Green, Rose...they CANNOT be traded at this point, but once the time expires, they can, LeBron can be traded if he gives consent--whether it's REPORTED that he REFUSES to CONSIDER a trade him is different. Oh, darn it...I just said I wouldn't explain it, but I did...

...oh, and since we're using distraction tactics, thanks for interrupting a debate between me and Waylay and harping on a point that had nothing to do with the original point, which was what pieces would or would not be worth a trade for LeBron...

You knw, BW, I tried to drop it. I made a post about dropping the whole thing. But you just can't. I even showed you how easy it is to say 'I was wrong'...I've said it multiple times on this forum...but you just cannot EVER seem to man-up and a) admit when you misspoke/were wrong, or b) move on from being 'butt-hurt'. Ever since that initial conversation, you've taken little potshots at me, and it's obvious, so fine, you want to play that way like a couple of girls???? :nonono:

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