Post#13 » by mikejames23 » Thu Sep 7, 2017 4:04 am
Looks like Frazier and Isiah snuck in right in time.
40's and early 50's types. I find these spots interesting as it's very chaotic. There isn't so much of a feel that some guys HAVE to be in right away (Isiah, Barry types), and it's very fluid for debate/argument.
PG
Chauncey Billups
Kevin Johnson
Russell Westbrook
PG spot will be weak for some time, but Billups once he came into his own became one of the most lethal floor generals. Outstanding leader, clutch, intangibles and playoff performer. One of the finest to play in his era. Never a superstar, but always well respected for his ability. Easy leader for perennial 50 W type team or one of the best 2nd stars on strong contenders.
Kevin Johnson - really impressed with peak. Would like to see some more conversation on him. Thought he has a case over Westbrook, etc.
Westbrook - He's still mid career, but with 1 MVP and multiple playoff heroics he's done enough to show himself as solid Top 50 all time candidate.
SG
Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Allen Iverson
Manu Ginobilli
James Harden
Sidney Moncrief
Reggie Miller is psychological GOAT, and best playoff performer amongst those remaining. I have no doubt in my mind he'd have special attention today unlike the 90's RS rankings.
Ray Allen - Regul8r posted some great stuff on his playoff inconsistencies. Basically a great player who's Top 50 all time, but also wildly inconsistent during the playoffs. Very Anti-Reggie Miller. You can entirely expect for him to be a no show for long parts of the series which hurts team performances.
Allen Iverson - The "worst superstar" if you will. He's the guy we're all bipolar about. I personally like him in Top ~45ish all time. I would give him the nod for bad timing with the kind of game he had, leading to lower efficiency.
Manu Ginobilli - Homer pick, but he's impacted the seasons enough to where I don't feel uncomfortable mentioning him.
James Harden - The best player left, I'd think. I just don't know if his career has been long enough for me.
Sidney - Top tier defender at Payton's level, efficient scoring, etc. The bucks teams were constructed to fall short of the true greats of that era, but Moncrief appears to be a true legend.
SF
Paul Pierce
Tracy McGrady
George Gervin
Dominique Wilkins
Paul Pierce - Loved the guy when he played. His defense is proven, as is his scoring capacities. Never the type to be in a Top 5 type of list, but always lingering around borderline superstar material. Had a couple of great scoring seasons, but I truly believe the two way role he played in 08 is his best fit role to date.
Tracy McGrady - posted on him earlier, but I felt this was really really bad timing with his prime years coinciding with bad teams. The first round exit stigma will always be there, but he has the best peak of anyone left (not including Walton).
George Gervin - Posted on him some in the 30's, but truly feel he's one hell of a scorer whose longevity suffered due to the style of the era he played in. In spite of this, he came in #2 a number of times during MVP talks. Liked what he did for the Spurs. His defense might have been questionable, but his overall impact was appreciated.
Nique - One of the finest scorers till date. I am curious about the "Patrick Ewing' theory applying to him some. Nique has 7 years in good MVP vote standing. I suspect he's a strong candidate for the 40's.
PF
Kevin McHale
Pau Gasol
Along with PG, will be another less discussed position (Heck you could place Pau at Center).
McHale and Pau - I really don't feel these two are that far apart. Perhaps McHale had more prime seasons so you'd give him the nod over Pau, but Pau lasted a good while after the Lakers 2013 disaster and had a bounceback 2015 year under Thibs. If you're considering WIllis Reed types, Gasol's 2 year title run with the Lakers feels superior to Reed's.
C
Willis Reed
Dwight Howard
Alonzo Mourning
Dikembe Mutombo
Dave Cowens
Reed - I get the feel he did a lot of things really well, but nothing ever at a superstar level. Good post game, strong, good rebounding, had all the things required for big men. Showed up in the playoffs and stole an MVP from Frazier.
Dwight Howard - One heck of a run up till 2011 or so, it felt like he would be the type to crack a Top 30 type list rather than Top 50, but he really spiraled with boneheaded chemistry issues. I don't feel compassion for him and wouldn't mind him seeing slip out of Top 50. He did it to himself.
Alonzo Mourning - Can't help but love him. Fierce competitor, put his 100% out, was a great defender, rebounder and 20 point type scorer. His prime impact is similar to Howard, but without all the chemistry issues.
Mutombo - He really longevity'ed himself here. Excellent defensive support his entire career. That being said, he's really not on Howard's level as a player. Respect to the 4 time DPOY, but he's a bit outmatched by others contending in the 40's.
Cowens is a strong 2 way player who is a great 50's and low 40's type candidate. I felt his overall impact was underrated during his era, and we'd truly appreciate him more in the modern era.
Others.
Nate Thurmond
I frankly don't blame players of his era for lower FG%. He has the makings of a guy who would shoot much much higher with a different set of rules. I might be convinced to take him over Mutombo. His defensive prowess can be argued to be the best out of everyone I've posted. Really liked Outside's info post on him.
Bob Cousy and Dolph Schayes
I would Mikan both in. They have shown enough importance relative to era to be ~Top 50ish all time type. Where you place him is up to you. They deserve significant respect for their contributions at the time.
Wes Unseld
Superstar glue guy. The adjusted numbers he puts up aren't necessarily super impressive, but he does post great O Ratings, a bit like an interesting version of Tyson Chandler/Shane Battier types. He obv. had a higher rep than either, but Unseld is a mystery to me.
