2017 Nets Offseason Thread III

[Roy Tarpley]

Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Duncan, Olajuwon, Russell, Shaq, Magic, Wilt, Bird and Oscar all before even considering Kobe. When all is said & done, I believe KD will definitely be above him as well. It's too early to tell with some of the younger guys, but I could see Westbrook, AD and possibly a few others passing him up.

Starting at 13, I believe you can then have real debates as how he fits among the likes of Nowitzki, the Malones, West, Dr. J, Robinson, Barkley & Wade.

I'd probably have slotted around 15th. A great player sure, but never the most feared/dominant player when he played, and certainly not top 3.

What is this nonsense?!

I don't think Kobe is near MJ and I hated his ballhogging ways toward the end of his career, but the man was the most feared player in the 2000s. Kids didn't yell "Kobe!" on their jumpers for nothing. He's definitely above the Malone/Robinson/Barkley/Wade tier.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Name your top 10 after Jordan.

yall are talking about this dude like he's some bum

Not a bum, and I have him top 10, but you could easily argue him not there. He's certainly not in the Jordan/Lebron/Kareem tier, after that I have Shaq/Duncan/Wilt/Magic/Bird/Russell in some order. Thats 9 right there, that I think were clearly better than Kobe (except maybe Bird,and only because of his lack of longevity. He was clearly better at his best).

After that, you can make arguments for plenty of guys at 10, even though I have Kobe there, I don't think its ridiculous to have him outside it

Who are you pushing Bryant out for? Oscar? Jerry West?

pound for pound skill wise the only people better on that list arguably are Jordan and Lebron. I'm not just counting accolades, I'm talking about pure overall basketball skill as a player. This may be biased, but i can't count your skill level to be above those three if you need someone to dump the ball inside to you for you to be able to be effective.

Now, toss accolades/accomplishments into the equation and yes, i definitely take Kareem and Jordan 1st and foremost over anyone.

I don't understand how you can say Kobe was better at basketball than Magic Shaq, Larry Bird, Wilt, Hakeem or Kareem.

What did Kobe do that was so amazing? He was a great scorer but he was never particularly efficient. He only won 1 MVP award. He was never a particularly good passer.

Kobe was an amazing player but he simply doesn't reach that upper echelon of guys like you're trying to say. I personally do not have him in my top 10 of all time:

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
LeBron
Russell
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Hakeem

I don't see how you take Kobe over any of those guys.

[MrDollarBills]

LOL @ KOBE BRYANT being on the same tier as Dirk. Okay.

Even if you say Duncan or Shaq over Bryant, which is not a bad argument at all, as top player after Jordan retired following his last championship win, Kobe Bryant was the top and deadliest perimeter player in the NBA from at bare minimum 2000-2009 until Lebron ascended to win league MVP. You think people compared him to Michael Jordan because they have similar mannerisms?

yeah okay peeps, 5 Time NBA Champion, MVP, 2x Finals MVP, 15x all NBA team nods 12x All NBA Defense and the third leading scorer in the history of the sport is on Dirk's tier Even putting Dwayne Wade on Kobe's tier is laughable.

Either some folks here never watched this dude play, or this has more to do with Bryant being a complete douchebag than it does than what actually transpired on the court.

[MrDollarBills]

Not a bum, and I have him top 10, but you could easily argue him not there. He's certainly not in the Jordan/Lebron/Kareem tier, after that I have Shaq/Duncan/Wilt/Magic/Bird/Russell in some order. Thats 9 right there, that I think were clearly better than Kobe (except maybe Bird,and only because of his lack of longevity. He was clearly better at his best).

After that, you can make arguments for plenty of guys at 10, even though I have Kobe there, I don't think its ridiculous to have him outside it

Who are you pushing Bryant out for? Oscar? Jerry West?

pound for pound skill wise the only people better on that list arguably are Jordan and Lebron. I'm not just counting accolades, I'm talking about pure overall basketball skill as a player. This may be biased, but i can't count your skill level to be above those three if you need someone to dump the ball inside to you for you to be able to be effective.

Now, toss accolades/accomplishments into the equation and yes, i definitely take Kareem and Jordan 1st and foremost over anyone.

I don't understand how you can say Kobe was better at basketball than Magic Shaq, Larry Bird, Wilt, Hakeem or Kareem.

What did Kobe do that was so amazing? He was a great scorer but he was never particularly efficient. He only won 1 MVP award. He was never a particularly good passer.

Kobe was an amazing player but he simply doesn't reach that upper echelon of guys like you're trying to say. I personally do not have him in my top 10 of all time:

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
LeBron
Russell
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Hakeem

I don't see how you take Kobe over any of those guys.

I'll take Kobe's resume over Hakeem's straight up tbh.

And lol @ "what did he do that was so amazing".? He's the 3rd leading scorer all time in the sport and he was an elite defender. You don't make ALL NBA and ALL NBA Defense 15 and 12 times by not being anything short of a stud. Oh my god...i'm not trying to be condescending but seriously, when did you first see this guy play?

Might want to watch actual games of this dude my friend before saying stuff like this. Sure he wasn't shooting 59% TS but his overall body of work isn't something to sneeze at nor was his on court play.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Who are you pushing Bryant out for? Oscar? Jerry West?

pound for pound skill wise the only people better on that list arguably are Jordan and Lebron. I'm not just counting accolades, I'm talking about pure overall basketball skill as a player. This may be biased, but i can't count your skill level to be above those three if you need someone to dump the ball inside to you for you to be able to be effective.

Now, toss accolades/accomplishments into the equation and yes, i definitely take Kareem and Jordan 1st and foremost over anyone.

I don't understand how you can say Kobe was better at basketball than Magic Shaq, Larry Bird, Wilt, Hakeem or Kareem.

What did Kobe do that was so amazing? He was a great scorer but he was never particularly efficient. He only won 1 MVP award. He was never a particularly good passer.

Kobe was an amazing player but he simply doesn't reach that upper echelon of guys like you're trying to say. I personally do not have him in my top 10 of all time:

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
LeBron
Russell
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Hakeem

I don't see how you take Kobe over any of those guys.

I'll take Kobe's resume over Hakeem's straight up tbh.

And lol @ "what did he do that was so amazing".? He's the 3rd leading scorer all time in the sport and he was an elite defender. You don't make ALL NBA and ALL NBA Defense 15 and 12 times by not being anything short of a stud. Oh my god...i'm not trying to be condescending but seriously, when did you first see this guy play?

Might want to watch actual games of this dude my friend before saying stuff like this. Sure he wasn't shooting 59% TS but his overall body of work isn't something to sneeze at nor was his on court play.

Yeah so he was an amazing scorer. One of the best of all time.

Thats not enough for me to say he is the 3rd best player of all time like you think.

Why are you acting like I'm diminishing Kobe just because I don't think hes up there with Jordan or LeBron.

That's actually the general consensus among NBA fans. ESPN had him ranked 12th of all time.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank160205/all-nbarank-11-15

If anything your view is the one thats extreme.

[TheNetsFan]

Who are you pushing Bryant out for? Oscar? Jerry West?

pound for pound skill wise the only people better on that list arguably are Jordan and Lebron. I'm not just counting accolades, I'm talking about pure overall basketball skill as a player. This may be biased, but i can't count your skill level to be above those three if you need someone to dump the ball inside to you for you to be able to be effective.

Now, toss accolades/accomplishments into the equation and yes, i definitely take Kareem and Jordan 1st and foremost over anyone.

I don't understand how you can say Kobe was better at basketball than Magic Shaq, Larry Bird, Wilt, Hakeem or Kareem.

What did Kobe do that was so amazing? He was a great scorer but he was never particularly efficient. He only won 1 MVP award. He was never a particularly good passer.

Kobe was an amazing player but he simply doesn't reach that upper echelon of guys like you're trying to say. I personally do not have him in my top 10 of all time:

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
LeBron
Russell
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Hakeem

I don't see how you take Kobe over any of those guys.

I'll take Kobe's resume over Hakeem's straight up tbh.

And lol @ "what did he do that was so amazing".? He's the 3rd leading scorer all time in the sport and he was an elite defender. You don't make ALL NBA and ALL NBA Defense 15 and 12 times by not being anything short of a stud. Oh my god...i'm not trying to be condescending but seriously, when did you first see this guy play?

Might want to watch actual games of this dude my friend before saying stuff like this. Sure he wasn't shooting 59% TS but his overall body of work isn't something to sneeze at nor was his on court play.

As much as I say Kobe is overrated, Hakeem is criminally underrated. He was the best big in an era dominated by bigs and one of the most skilled bigs ever. Hakeem and the Dream Shake over Kobe in any era of basketball.

[Ror1997]

We're at the "who's the GOAT" part of the off season?

[Sleepyazn]

I'm confused, why is there a conversation about Kobe in here?

[kamaze]

LOL @ KOBE BRYANT being on the same tier as Dirk. Okay.

Even if you say Duncan or Shaq over Bryant, which is not a bad argument at all, as top player after Jordan retired following his last championship win, Kobe Bryant was the top and deadliest perimeter player in the NBA from at bare minimum 2000-2009 until Lebron ascended to win league MVP. You think people compared him to Michael Jordan because they have similar mannerisms?

yeah okay peeps, 5 Time NBA Champion, MVP, 2x Finals MVP, 15x all NBA team nods 12x All NBA Defense and the third leading scorer in the history of the sport is on Dirk's tier Even putting Dwayne Wade on Kobe's tier is laughable.

Either some folks here never watched this dude play, or this has more to do with Bryant being a complete douchebag than it does than what actually transpired on the court.

People have been brainwashed by ESPN about Lebron and forgot who the closest player to MJ is. How many rings did Kobe win? 5

How many did Lebron win? 3

In a tougher conference too stop the madness.

[kamaze]

I'm confused, why is there a conversation about Kobe in here?

You're right we shouldn't be talking about other players in a team thread I apologize.

Go Brooklyn!!

[ChokeFasncists]

I don't understand how you can say Kobe was better at basketball than Magic Shaq, Larry Bird, Wilt, Hakeem or Kareem.

What did Kobe do that was so amazing? He was a great scorer but he was never particularly efficient. He only won 1 MVP award. He was never a particularly good passer.

Kobe was an amazing player but he simply doesn't reach that upper echelon of guys like you're trying to say. I personally do not have him in my top 10 of all time:

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
LeBron
Russell
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Hakeem

I don't see how you take Kobe over any of those guys.

I'll take Kobe's resume over Hakeem's straight up tbh.

And lol @ "what did he do that was so amazing".? He's the 3rd leading scorer all time in the sport and he was an elite defender. You don't make ALL NBA and ALL NBA Defense 15 and 12 times by not being anything short of a stud. Oh my god...i'm not trying to be condescending but seriously, when did you first see this guy play?

Might want to watch actual games of this dude my friend before saying stuff like this. Sure he wasn't shooting 59% TS but his overall body of work isn't something to sneeze at nor was his on court play.

Yeah so he was an amazing scorer. One of the best of all time.

Thats not enough for me to say he is the 3rd best player of all time like you think.

Why are you acting like I'm diminishing Kobe just because I don't think hes up there with Jordan or LeBron.

That's actually the general consensus among NBA fans. ESPN had him ranked 12th of all time.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank160205/all-nbarank-11-15

If anything your view is the one thats extreme.

Wow, they have LBJ at no.3 already Feb 2016

Strange that his page is the only that doesn't work

[MrDollarBills]

LOL @ KOBE BRYANT being on the same tier as Dirk. Okay.

Even if you say Duncan or Shaq over Bryant, which is not a bad argument at all, as top player after Jordan retired following his last championship win, Kobe Bryant was the top and deadliest perimeter player in the NBA from at bare minimum 2000-2009 until Lebron ascended to win league MVP. You think people compared him to Michael Jordan because they have similar mannerisms?

yeah okay peeps, 5 Time NBA Champion, MVP, 2x Finals MVP, 15x all NBA team nods 12x All NBA Defense and the third leading scorer in the history of the sport is on Dirk's tier Even putting Dwayne Wade on Kobe's tier is laughable.

Either some folks here never watched this dude play, or this has more to do with Bryant being a complete douchebag than it does than what actually transpired on the court.

People have been brainwashed by ESPN about Lebron and forgot who the closest player to MJ is. How many rings did Kobe win? 5

How many did Lebron win? 3

In a tougher conference too stop the madness.

I have no problem if someone wants to take Lebron over Kobe. Lebron has nothing to prove imo.

This idea that Kobe is on Dirk's tier though....I'm just done, that's the craziest comment that I've seen on this forum yet and there has been some serious whoppers on here before. Dudes clearly didn't watch Bryant play in his prime, its obvious. Not worth arguing over a moment more, bring on Nets training camp.

[Hello Brooklyn]

LOL @ KOBE BRYANT being on the same tier as Dirk. Okay.

Even if you say Duncan or Shaq over Bryant, which is not a bad argument at all, as top player after Jordan retired following his last championship win, Kobe Bryant was the top and deadliest perimeter player in the NBA from at bare minimum 2000-2009 until Lebron ascended to win league MVP. You think people compared him to Michael Jordan because they have similar mannerisms?

yeah okay peeps, 5 Time NBA Champion, MVP, 2x Finals MVP, 15x all NBA team nods 12x All NBA Defense and the third leading scorer in the history of the sport is on Dirk's tier Even putting Dwayne Wade on Kobe's tier is laughable.

Either some folks here never watched this dude play, or this has more to do with Bryant being a complete douchebag than it does than what actually transpired on the court.

People have been brainwashed by ESPN about Lebron and forgot who the closest player to MJ is. How many rings did Kobe win? 5

How many did Lebron win? 3

In a tougher conference too stop the madness.

This is such a stupid argument.

You know and I know that those first 3 rings were because of Shaq.

[TheNetsFan]

LOL @ KOBE BRYANT being on the same tier as Dirk. Okay.

Even if you say Duncan or Shaq over Bryant, which is not a bad argument at all, as top player after Jordan retired following his last championship win, Kobe Bryant was the top and deadliest perimeter player in the NBA from at bare minimum 2000-2009 until Lebron ascended to win league MVP. You think people compared him to Michael Jordan because they have similar mannerisms?

yeah okay peeps, 5 Time NBA Champion, MVP, 2x Finals MVP, 15x all NBA team nods 12x All NBA Defense and the third leading scorer in the history of the sport is on Dirk's tier Even putting Dwayne Wade on Kobe's tier is laughable.

Either some folks here never watched this dude play, or this has more to do with Bryant being a complete douchebag than it does than what actually transpired on the court.

People have been brainwashed by ESPN about Lebron and forgot who the closest player to MJ is. How many rings did Kobe win? 5

How many did Lebron win? 3

In a tougher conference too stop the madness.

I have no problem if someone wants to take Lebron over Kobe. Lebron has nothing to prove imo.

This idea that Kobe is on Dirk's tier though....I'm just done, that's the craziest comment that I've seen on this forum yet and there has been some serious whoppers on here before. Dudes clearly didn't watch Bryant play in his prime, its obvious. Not worth arguing over a moment more, bring on Nets training camp.

Not saying ESPN's ranking is gospel, but Kobe's rank (12) is much closer to Dirk's rank (17) than Lebron's (3).

[MrDollarBills]

LOL @ KOBE BRYANT being on the same tier as Dirk. Okay.

Even if you say Duncan or Shaq over Bryant, which is not a bad argument at all, as top player after Jordan retired following his last championship win, Kobe Bryant was the top and deadliest perimeter player in the NBA from at bare minimum 2000-2009 until Lebron ascended to win league MVP. You think people compared him to Michael Jordan because they have similar mannerisms?

yeah okay peeps, 5 Time NBA Champion, MVP, 2x Finals MVP, 15x all NBA team nods 12x All NBA Defense and the third leading scorer in the history of the sport is on Dirk's tier Even putting Dwayne Wade on Kobe's tier is laughable.

Either some folks here never watched this dude play, or this has more to do with Bryant being a complete douchebag than it does than what actually transpired on the court.

People have been brainwashed by ESPN about Lebron and forgot who the closest player to MJ is. How many rings did Kobe win? 5

How many did Lebron win? 3

In a tougher conference too stop the madness.

This is such a stupid argument.

You know and I know that those first 3 rings were because of Shaq.

in 2000-01 playoffs, Bryant at age 22 averaged 29pts, 7rebs, 6asts 46% FG (55%TS) on their way to a 2nd championship. Trying to frame the narrative as if Bryant was a bystander during those three seasons is 100% fallacious argument if anything above all else. Lakers don't win those championships without Bryant on the wing just as much as it was O'Neal in the post. That's what made them nearly unstoppable.

[MrDollarBills]

People have been brainwashed by ESPN about Lebron and forgot who the closest player to MJ is. How many rings did Kobe win? 5

How many did Lebron win? 3

In a tougher conference too stop the madness.

I have no problem if someone wants to take Lebron over Kobe. Lebron has nothing to prove imo.

This idea that Kobe is on Dirk's tier though....I'm just done, that's the craziest comment that I've seen on this forum yet and there has been some serious whoppers on here before. Dudes clearly didn't watch Bryant play in his prime, its obvious. Not worth arguing over a moment more, bring on Nets training camp.

Not saying ESPN's ranking is gospel, but Kobe's rank (12) is much closer to Dirk's rank (17) than Lebron's (3).

The same ESPN list that has Steph Curry rated over Jason Kidd, Allen Iverson, Gary Payton, Scottie Pippen and Isiah Thomas?

[Hello Brooklyn]

People have been brainwashed by ESPN about Lebron and forgot who the closest player to MJ is. How many rings did Kobe win? 5

How many did Lebron win? 3

In a tougher conference too stop the madness.

This is such a stupid argument.

You know and I know that those first 3 rings were because of Shaq.

in 2000-01 playoffs, Bryant at age 22 averaged 29pts, 7rebs, 6asts 46% FG (55%TS) on their way to a 2nd championship. Trying to frame the narrative as if Bryant was a bystander during those three seasons is 100% fallacious argument if anything above all else. Lakers don't win those championships without Bryant on the wing just as much as it was O'Neal in the post. That's what made them nearly unstoppable.

I didn't say he was a bystander.

But Shaq was by far the better player all 3 of those Championships.

You can't use the "Kobe has 5 and LeBron has 3" argument because its stupid.

You know damn well if LeBron had played with prime Shaq early in his career he would have had more Championships.

[MrDollarBills]

I'm not the one using the 5 rings versus 3 argument. I don't have a problem with someone saying Lebron is better than Kobe.

Those 1st 3 rings had just as much to do with Bryant as they had to do with O'Neal. Dismissing one in favor of the other is where things become stupid, and disingenuous. I'm only picking at your point that O'Neal was the reason why they won. It was a combination of multiple things, starting with the best Bigman/Wing combo in NBA history, O'Neal and Bryant. Shaq's not getting past teams like the Trailblazers or the Sacramento Kings in those days without Bryant, and vice versa. Doesn't matter who the better player was between the two.

[shakendfries]

This is such a stupid argument.

You know and I know that those first 3 rings were because of Shaq.

in 2000-01 playoffs, Bryant at age 22 averaged 29pts, 7rebs, 6asts 46% FG (55%TS) on their way to a 2nd championship. Trying to frame the narrative as if Bryant was a bystander during those three seasons is 100% fallacious argument if anything above all else. Lakers don't win those championships without Bryant on the wing just as much as it was O'Neal in the post. That's what made them nearly unstoppable.

I didn't say he was a bystander.

But Shaq was by far the better player all 3 of those Championships.

You can't use the "Kobe has 5 and LeBron has 3" argument because its stupid.

You know damn well if LeBron had played with prime Shaq early in his career he would have had more Championships.

Shaq also had to join another superstar in Dewayne Wade in order to win another chip after leaving Kobe. Shaq even joined a 2x MVP in Steve Nash and didn't end up accomplishing anything.

Kobe won two more with Pau Gasol, who was definitely a star, but far from a superstar NBA talent.

To compare with Lebron, Kobe's championships without Shaq are the equivalent of Bron having to carry a team with just Kevin Love or Chris Bosh to multiple championships. While Shaq might have been at the height of his career in LA he clearly had to play with superior talents (Nash, Wade) than to what Kobe had when he won with Pau & Derek Fisher.

Watch on YouTube

[Roy Tarpley]

Waiting for the preseason is a drag. Nothing to do. Time to predict minute distributions again:

Lin (30) / Russell (10) / Dinwiddie (8)
Russell (20) / Kilpatrick (20) / Levert (8)
Crabbe (28) / Levert (16) / Carroll (4)
RHJ (24) / Carroll (16) / Booker (8)
Mozgov (24) / Booker (16) / Allen (8)

Can't really find minutes for Whitehead, Harris, and Acy.