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Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 1

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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#841 » by NavLDO » Thu Sep 7, 2017 11:55 am

Saberestar wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:RJ Hunter played well against Booker in a SL game from memory.

I still like Peter Jok he has a high quick release for a 3 point specialist.

Whoever it is has important job otherwise Watson will play Booker for 40 minutes.

I think that Hunter or Jok are gonna be important for the team if we are talking about depth, but the more I think about it the more I realize that we are gonna go 9 men deep in the rotation at the beginning of the season.

We need to give Ulis and Warren (or Jackson) a good amount of minutes if both come from the bench, so our rotation would be something like....

Bledsoe/Ulis
Booker/ (Jackson or Bledsoe)
Jackson/Warren
Chriss/Bender
Chandler/Sauce

I know that we need shooting, but it's what it's. Hopefully our youngsters improve on that area.
In a month we can add Dudley to the rotation to have better spacing if any of our frontcourt players is playing terrible basketball.


Not you, too, Saber...

Why are we starting JJ over Warren?

Warren shot 60% from 3PT; he averaged 17.7 PTs, 7.6 TRB, 1.5 STLs in his last 10 games of the season last year. In his 1st 11 games, he averaged 20 PTs, 5 TRB, and 2.1 STLs. And BTW, I misspoke in an earlier post when I said that Warren shot like 46% from 3 in his 1st 13 and last 10, or whatever I said...he actually shot 39% from 3 in those 23 games, 37.5% in the 21 games I'm discussing in this post.

Point is, when healthy and on point, that's something like, what 18.5 PTs, 6TRBs, 1.8 STLs, and 38% 3PT shooting...

So I ask again...why does everybody want to sit Warren for JJ...and this just furthers my point of what happens when you have too much young talent; not enough opportunity to go around.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#842 » by King4Day » Thu Sep 7, 2017 12:38 pm

Hypothetical question.
If the Griz were gonna give up and try to trade Conley, it's unlikely they'd get a ton for him.
Would you trade 2 years of EB for 4 years of Conley?
Locked in, good defender. Great leader by all accounts.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#843 » by Mulhollanddrive » Thu Sep 7, 2017 12:49 pm

3 point shooting is so important I think we need another specialist.

Everyone in our forecast rotation shot 33% or under except Booker.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#844 » by Saberestar » Thu Sep 7, 2017 12:52 pm

NavLDO wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:RJ Hunter played well against Booker in a SL game from memory.

I still like Peter Jok he has a high quick release for a 3 point specialist.

Whoever it is has important job otherwise Watson will play Booker for 40 minutes.

I think that Hunter or Jok are gonna be important for the team if we are talking about depth, but the more I think about it the more I realize that we are gonna go 9 men deep in the rotation at the beginning of the season.

We need to give Ulis and Warren (or Jackson) a good amount of minutes if both come from the bench, so our rotation would be something like....

Bledsoe/Ulis
Booker/ (Jackson or Bledsoe)
Jackson/Warren
Chriss/Bender
Chandler/Sauce

I know that we need shooting, but it's what it's. Hopefully our youngsters improve on that area.
In a month we can add Dudley to the rotation to have better spacing if any of our frontcourt players is playing terrible basketball.


Not you, too, Saber...

Why are we starting JJ over Warren?

Warren shot 60% from 3PT; he averaged 17.7 PTs, 7.6 TRB, 1.5 STLs in his last 10 games of the season last year. In his 1st 11 games, he averaged 20 PTs, 5 TRB, and 2.1 STLs. And BTW, I misspoke in an earlier post when I said that Warren shot like 46% from 3 in his 1st 13 and last 10, or whatever I said...he actually shot 39% from 3 in those 23 games, 37.5% in the 21 games I'm discussing in this post.

Point is, when healthy and on point, that's something like, what 18.5 PTs, 6TRBs, 1.8 STLs, and 38% 3PT shooting...

So I ask again...why does everybody want to sit Warren for JJ...and this just furthers my point of what happens when you have too much young talent; not enough opportunity to go around.

Personally I would start Warren and Jackson together, at SF and PF.

I really don't care who starts, I want to see Warren AND Jackson playing at least 30 mpg.
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Re: RE: Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#845 » by MathiasPW » Thu Sep 7, 2017 1:53 pm

NavLDO wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
"This is a pointless exercise of discussion anyway." -- Ah yes, the BW special. Distraction. Rather than admit that he misspoke, or that he was wrong, he calls someones post "pointless", and moves on.

"It's dumb to trade for a FA who you could sign..." -- Well, duh. Problem is, LeBron's not a FA.

But yes, there is a strong chance that "We won't be trading for LeBron." But not because McD wouldn't want to, it's because we don't likely have the right kind of ammo...


Report: LeBron James not willing to waive no-trade clause for any team in 2017-18
Don't even think about it -- LeBron's reportedly not going anywhere


No matter the reconstruction of the Cleveland Cavaliers' roster, no matter the potential for heightened inner turmoil, no matter the win-loss record, and with or without Kyrie Irving, LeBron James will not waive his no-trade clause for any teams at any point during the 2017-18 season, league sources tell ESPN.


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-lebron-james-not-willing-to-waive-no-trade-clause-for-any-team-in-2017-18/


Him saying he won't entertain being traded is a lot different than "can't" be traded. And a lot can change in a month and a half, which is how old this article is. Do you know how many times reporters report things, and get it wrong? Like...a lot...and again, go back and re-read my original post. I understand the concept of a no trade clause, and LeBron's unwillingness to be traded. But now that Kyrie is gone, and the only return is a broken IT, a draft pick, and a really good player that happens to play the same position he does, well, he might change his mind, since those acquisitions actually 'weaken' the team, this year. When circumstances change, in some cases, intentions change.

And how many other discussions on this forum have taken place that went against the grain of likely reality, yet never received the "pointless exercise" moniker from you, huh??? Umm, like how about every trade proposal on this forum.

It's obvious you are still 'butt-hurt' from your hyperbolic statement of how rare it is for a rookie NBA player to be good on D, that you kept changing the parameters over several posts to finally stating how rare it is for 'a rookie-WING-that-ONLY-came-in-during-X-period-that-MAY-or-MAY-NOT-EVEN-STAY-in-the-NBA' conversation we had...making every attempt possible not to have to say you misspoke, and when that didn't work, then ending it whining about how I scared everybody away, which was refuted by AtheJ immediately afterwards...OOPS...and how I somehow proved your point, but you were not going to explain how, because if I couldn't see it, well, then...I love that a tactic...in fact, I'll use it now...thanks for posting those, since they proved my point; if you can't see how, well, I'm not going to bother trying to explain it to you...(funny thing is, this actually works for me in this case!)

Read my signature line...what you said was W-R-O-N-G, WRONG. LeBron CAN be traded...whether he desires to be traded is another point all together. Korver, Green, Rose...they CANNOT be traded at this point, but once the time expires, they can, LeBron can be traded if he gives consent--whether it's REPORTED that he REFUSES to CONSIDER a trade him is different. Oh, darn it...I just said I wouldn't explain it, but I did...

...oh, and since we're using distraction tactics, thanks for interrupting a debate between me and Waylay and harping on a point that had nothing to do with the original point, which was what pieces would or would not be worth a trade for LeBron...

You knw, BW, I tried to drop it. I made a post about dropping the whole thing. But you just can't. I even showed you how easy it is to say 'I was wrong'...I've said it multiple times on this forum...but you just cannot EVER seem to man-up and a) admit when you misspoke/were wrong, or b) move on from being 'butt-hurt'. Ever since that initial conversation, you've taken little potshots at me, and it's obvious, so fine, you want to play that way like a couple of girls???? :nonono:



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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#846 » by bwgood77 » Thu Sep 7, 2017 3:21 pm

NavLDO wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
"This is a pointless exercise of discussion anyway." -- Ah yes, the BW special. Distraction. Rather than admit that he misspoke, or that he was wrong, he calls someones post "pointless", and moves on.

"It's dumb to trade for a FA who you could sign..." -- Well, duh. Problem is, LeBron's not a FA.

But yes, there is a strong chance that "We won't be trading for LeBron." But not because McD wouldn't want to, it's because we don't likely have the right kind of ammo...


Report: LeBron James not willing to waive no-trade clause for any team in 2017-18
Don't even think about it -- LeBron's reportedly not going anywhere


No matter the reconstruction of the Cleveland Cavaliers' roster, no matter the potential for heightened inner turmoil, no matter the win-loss record, and with or without Kyrie Irving, LeBron James will not waive his no-trade clause for any teams at any point during the 2017-18 season, league sources tell ESPN.


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-lebron-james-not-willing-to-waive-no-trade-clause-for-any-team-in-2017-18/


Him saying he won't entertain being traded is a lot different than "can't" be traded. And a lot can change in a month and a half, which is how old this article is. Do you know how many times reporters report things, and get it wrong? Like...a lot...and again, go back and re-read my original post. I understand the concept of a no trade clause, and LeBron's unwillingness to be traded. But now that Kyrie is gone, and the only return is a broken IT, a draft pick, and a really good player that happens to play the same position he does, well, he might change his mind, since those acquisitions actually 'weaken' the team, this year. When circumstances change, in some cases, intentions change.

And how many other discussions on this forum have taken place that went against the grain of likely reality, yet never received the "pointless exercise" moniker from you, huh??? Umm, like how about every trade proposal on this forum.

It's obvious you are still 'butt-hurt' from your hyperbolic statement of how rare it is for a rookie NBA player to be good on D, that you kept changing the parameters over several posts to finally stating how rare it is for 'a rookie-WING-that-ONLY-came-in-during-X-period-that-MAY-or-MAY-NOT-EVEN-STAY-in-the-NBA' conversation we had...making every attempt possible not to have to say you misspoke, and when that didn't work, then ending it whining about how I scared everybody away, which was refuted by AtheJ immediately afterwards...OOPS...and how I somehow proved your point, but you were not going to explain how, because if I couldn't see it, well, then...I love that a tactic...in fact, I'll use it now...thanks for posting those, since they proved my point; if you can't see how, well, I'm not going to bother trying to explain it to you...(funny thing is, this actually works for me in this case!)

Read my signature line...what you said was W-R-O-N-G, WRONG. LeBron CAN be traded...whether he desires to be traded is another point all together. Korver, Green, Rose...they CANNOT be traded at this point, but once the time expires, they can, LeBron can be traded if he gives consent--whether it's REPORTED that he REFUSES to CONSIDER a trade him is different. Oh, darn it...I just said I wouldn't explain it, but I did...

...oh, and since we're using distraction tactics, thanks for interrupting a debate between me and Waylay and harping on a point that had nothing to do with the original point, which was what pieces would or would not be worth a trade for LeBron...

You knw, BW, I tried to drop it. I made a post about dropping the whole thing. But you just can't. I even showed you how easy it is to say 'I was wrong'...I've said it multiple times on this forum...but you just cannot EVER seem to man-up and a) admit when you misspoke/were wrong, or b) move on from being 'butt-hurt'. Ever since that initial conversation, you've taken little potshots at me, and it's obvious, so fine, you want to play that way like a couple of girls???? :nonono:


No, I don't think you do understand what a no trade clause is. That's certainly not my fault.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#847 » by Jdiddy701 » Thu Sep 7, 2017 5:13 pm

DarkHawk wrote:Hypothetical question.
If the Griz were gonna give up and try to trade Conley, it's unlikely they'd get a ton for him.
Would you trade 2 years of EB for 4 years of Conley?
Locked in, good defender. Great leader by all accounts.


One of the worst contracts in the NBA. I can't see a team trading for him.


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Re: RE: Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#848 » by jredsaz » Thu Sep 7, 2017 6:54 pm

Jdiddy701 wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:Hypothetical question.
If the Griz were gonna give up and try to trade Conley, it's unlikely they'd get a ton for him.
Would you trade 2 years of EB for 4 years of Conley?
Locked in, good defender. Great leader by all accounts.


One of the worst contracts in the NBA. I can't see a team trading for him.


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Conley? It's not a great contract but not the worst in the NBA. Guy is super efficient and a good defender. He is a very good player and you pay for it.

I doubt the Grizz make that trade without more coming from the Suns and I probably don't pull the trigger if I am the Suns. Conley doesn't make a big enough difference for this team as currently constructed.

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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#849 » by Saberestar » Thu Sep 7, 2017 7:44 pm

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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#850 » by bigfoot » Thu Sep 7, 2017 10:36 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


I would prefer to see a lottery system with better odds for the teams with the best record who didn't make the playoffs.

Fourteen teams are in the lottery

10% chance for non-playoff team with best record
9% for next two teams
8% for next three teams
7% for next three teams
6% for next two teams
5% for bottom three teams

Every lottery position is drawn too instead of first three.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#851 » by LukasBMW » Thu Sep 7, 2017 10:54 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


Bad timing for us.

The plan had to be:Suck for one more year. Get a top pick. Then use cap money to surround our young studs with vets.

This will absolutely effect what we do.

No reform - We trade Bledsoe and tank.

Reform - We keep Bledsoe and maybe even add some more vets to make a playoff push.

Edit - The RealGM article says this could effect the 2018 lottery. The ESPN article says 2019.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#852 » by Stix » Thu Sep 7, 2017 11:01 pm

LukasBMW wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


Bad timing for us.

The plan had to be:Suck for one more year. Get a top pick. Then use cap money to surround our young studs with vets.

This will absolutely effect what we do.

No reform - We trade Bledsoe and tank.

Reform - We keep Bledsoe and maybe even add some more vets to make a playoff push.

Edit - The RealGM article says this could effect the 2018 lottery. The ESPN article says 2019.


Yep, Silver following in the footsteps of Stern. Must be a memo somewhere on how to screw the Suns.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#853 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Sep 7, 2017 11:19 pm

bigfoot wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


I would prefer to see a lottery system with better odds for the teams with the best record who didn't make the playoffs.

Fourteen teams are in the lottery

10% chance for non-playoff team with best record
9% for next two teams
8% for next three teams
7% for next three teams
6% for next two teams
5% for bottom three teams

Every lottery position is drawn too instead of first three.


I think that's a terrible idea. Imagine teams tanking to not make the playoffs. Yeesh.

What about a system where the whole thing is drawn, but:

(1) you start with the lotto teams, with essentially the odds they have now;
(2) after each position is drawn, the next-worst team in the standings enters the lottery; and
(3) every team "behind" the team whose number was selected moves down.

So say the team with the fourth-best odds gets the #1 pick. Everything re-sets, except that teams #5-14 become teams #4-13 in the order, and the next teams jumps in as the new #14. And you do that 16 times. Once you're down to only 14 teams, the picks are set in that order. So the team with the best record always gets the last pick; everyone else has at least some chance of doing better or worse than their record.

A more exciting version of this, IMO, would be doing it in reverse order, starting with the #30 pick. The goal would be to NOT be selected. You could change up the rules in all sorts of ways, but almost any variation on this idea I would think superior to the current version. For instance, you could move down from 30 with only five teams at a time. That way, the worst pick the team with the worst record could get would be the #5 pick.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#854 » by jredsaz » Thu Sep 7, 2017 11:43 pm

I think the best idea is preventing teams from picking in the top 3 in consecutive years while also spreading the odds more evenly, basically what they are doing.

Had this rule been in place last draft we would have got the first pick as the Sixers, Lakers, and Celtics all picked in the top three in 2016.

The talent gap between 4 and 8 isn't as large as 1 and 4. Teams who get a top 3 pick in one year really don't have any incentive to all out tank at that point. Obviously teams like the Suns, Kings, Magic, and Mavs would have extra incentive to do so but it wouldn't be as pervasive.

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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#855 » by Mulhollanddrive » Fri Sep 8, 2017 1:56 am

From what I read it would affect the top 3 odds and we are more considered in the 4-8 range so the flatter curve could help us.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#856 » by RunDogGun » Fri Sep 8, 2017 3:33 am

I'd like to see a change to both the draft and the playoffs. I'd rather see a bell curve odds for the lottery Example 1 and 14 have same odds, 2 and 13, and so on. Next I'd like to see the top 16 teams in the playoffs regardless of conference.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#857 » by bwgood77 » Fri Sep 8, 2017 4:20 am

If anyone cares...I think we have at least one person here who thinks he can be a talent in the league..

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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#858 » by ryanball » Fri Sep 8, 2017 4:23 am

The only way to stop all attempts at manipulation of the draft would be a pure random lottery, where all teams have the exact same odds regardless of their season record. That and of course some kind of provably random and transparent system rather than what they do now.

I'd actually much prefer it that way.

The weighted systems just serve to diminish the integrity of the competition. Teams should want to win, period. Teams should never want to lose, or only win a certain number of games, or only make the 8th seed or whatever.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#859 » by asudevil » Fri Sep 8, 2017 6:27 am

bwgood77 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:


Him saying he won't entertain being traded is a lot different than "can't" be traded. And a lot can change in a month and a half, which is how old this article is. Do you know how many times reporters report things, and get it wrong? Like...a lot...and again, go back and re-read my original post. I understand the concept of a no trade clause, and LeBron's unwillingness to be traded. But now that Kyrie is gone, and the only return is a broken IT, a draft pick, and a really good player that happens to play the same position he does, well, he might change his mind, since those acquisitions actually 'weaken' the team, this year. When circumstances change, in some cases, intentions change.

And how many other discussions on this forum have taken place that went against the grain of likely reality, yet never received the "pointless exercise" moniker from you, huh??? Umm, like how about every trade proposal on this forum.

It's obvious you are still 'butt-hurt' from your hyperbolic statement of how rare it is for a rookie NBA player to be good on D, that you kept changing the parameters over several posts to finally stating how rare it is for 'a rookie-WING-that-ONLY-came-in-during-X-period-that-MAY-or-MAY-NOT-EVEN-STAY-in-the-NBA' conversation we had...making every attempt possible not to have to say you misspoke, and when that didn't work, then ending it whining about how I scared everybody away, which was refuted by AtheJ immediately afterwards...OOPS...and how I somehow proved your point, but you were not going to explain how, because if I couldn't see it, well, then...I love that a tactic...in fact, I'll use it now...thanks for posting those, since they proved my point; if you can't see how, well, I'm not going to bother trying to explain it to you...(funny thing is, this actually works for me in this case!)

Read my signature line...what you said was W-R-O-N-G, WRONG. LeBron CAN be traded...whether he desires to be traded is another point all together. Korver, Green, Rose...they CANNOT be traded at this point, but once the time expires, they can, LeBron can be traded if he gives consent--whether it's REPORTED that he REFUSES to CONSIDER a trade him is different. Oh, darn it...I just said I wouldn't explain it, but I did...

...oh, and since we're using distraction tactics, thanks for interrupting a debate between me and Waylay and harping on a point that had nothing to do with the original point, which was what pieces would or would not be worth a trade for LeBron...

You knw, BW, I tried to drop it. I made a post about dropping the whole thing. But you just can't. I even showed you how easy it is to say 'I was wrong'...I've said it multiple times on this forum...but you just cannot EVER seem to man-up and a) admit when you misspoke/were wrong, or b) move on from being 'butt-hurt'. Ever since that initial conversation, you've taken little potshots at me, and it's obvious, so fine, you want to play that way like a couple of girls???? :nonono:


No, I don't think you do understand what a no trade clause is. That's certainly not my fault.


I'll chime in on this one. Nav is arguing about being "technically right" and BW is arguing being logically right.

I would be EXTREMELY surprised if Lebron even entertained being traded this season for MANY reasons.

a.) I think he would rather waste one year of his prime just to screw over Gilbert. Any trade of Lebron will easily set up a Cavs rebuild. We are talking about multiple picks and young players that the Cavs will have at their disposal. At this point If Lebron leaves in a year the Cavs have very little to work with for a few years.

b.) Lebron leaving via FA and Lebron being traded will be looked at in two completely different ways. Asking to be traded now will look like he's abandoning cleveland, where as him leaving via FA will probably be seen as Gilbert forcing him out.

c.) Most any team who trades for Lebron will be left in a less than desirable state. The team would probably look a lot like the Cavs team that Lebron left before joining Miami....a team with a bit of talent, but surrounded by has-beens and vet ring chasers. There are some teams who have a package that wouldnt gut the roster, but most would be left in a sorry state.

d.) Any team with a REAL chance at landing Lebron in the offseason, but is over the cap, would probably spend less in assets to clear cap space than they would have to give up to trade for Lebron. Him waiting one year will set up whatever team who wants to play for for a championship run.

So, for me 100% Lebron cannot be traded because 100% Lebron wont agree to be traded.
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Re: Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 

Post#860 » by NavLDO » Fri Sep 8, 2017 9:58 am

Saberestar wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
Saberestar wrote:I think that Hunter or Jok are gonna be important for the team if we are talking about depth, but the more I think about it the more I realize that we are gonna go 9 men deep in the rotation at the beginning of the season.

We need to give Ulis and Warren (or Jackson) a good amount of minutes if both come from the bench, so our rotation would be something like....

Bledsoe/Ulis
Booker/ (Jackson or Bledsoe)
Jackson/Warren
Chriss/Bender
Chandler/Sauce

I know that we need shooting, but it's what it's. Hopefully our youngsters improve on that area.
In a month we can add Dudley to the rotation to have better spacing if any of our frontcourt players is playing terrible basketball.


Not you, too, Saber...

Why are we starting JJ over Warren?

Warren shot 60% from 3PT; he averaged 17.7 PTs, 7.6 TRB, 1.5 STLs in his last 10 games of the season last year. In his 1st 11 games, he averaged 20 PTs, 5 TRB, and 2.1 STLs. And BTW, I misspoke in an earlier post when I said that Warren shot like 46% from 3 in his 1st 13 and last 10, or whatever I said...he actually shot 39% from 3 in those 23 games, 37.5% in the 21 games I'm discussing in this post.

Point is, when healthy and on point, that's something like, what 18.5 PTs, 6TRBs, 1.8 STLs, and 38% 3PT shooting...

So I ask again...why does everybody want to sit Warren for JJ...and this just furthers my point of what happens when you have too much young talent; not enough opportunity to go around.

Personally I would start Warren and Jackson together, at SF and PF.

I really don't care who starts, I want to see Warren AND Jackson playing at least 30 mpg.


I agree...like 95%. The only concern I have is Warren's Defense at PF. He would need to WANT it...If he commits to effort to Defense at the 4, then yes, I think he COULD be an ideal 4. Size is not an issue with him; He's tall, long, and 'bulky' enough not to get manhandled down there if he committed 100%.

But I would love to see a scenario in which we bring back Len to start at Center, then obviously Bledsoe at the PG and have a 5 man rotation at SG, SF, and PF--Booker, JJ, Warren, Chriss, and Bender (JJ getting some minutes at SG ONLY when we have Warren, Dudley, and Chriss in--yes, Dudley would get 10 minutes of the 144 shared minutes, so, 134 shared minutes.) That would roughly be 27 minutes a piece, but more likely Booker-30, Warren-30, Chriss-27, JJ-25, Bender-25, or something like that. As a rookie, JJ will hit a rookie wall at some point...they almost all do.

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