Odom to retire as a Laker?

[Takes5]

Sure, do it.
But make no mistake Lamar, the trade from the Lakers didn't end you. Getting involved with the Kardashian dysfunction did it.

Huh....I woulda thought it was the cocaine habit he started in Miami. It makes me want to vomit defending the Kardashians...but I really don't think they take the blame for this one.

yep this is 100% on Lamar's shoulders.

I believe we've identified what you guys do when no one's watching. Guilty pleasure?

[danfantastk32]

Huh....I woulda thought it was the cocaine habit he started in Miami. It makes me want to vomit defending the Kardashians...but I really don't think they take the blame for this one.

yep this is 100% on Lamar's shoulders.

I believe we've identified what you guys do when no one's watching. Guilty pleasure?

What?....A guy can't call out a dude with a massive drug addiction, without being a Kardashian fan? For the record, I watched about 20 seconds of one show. Kim was standing there leafing through some dresses at a clothing store, and talking to someone there with her about some guy. I could feel my brain cells dying, and I moved on. F the Kardashians.

But you know what? I also remember Lamar getting pulled over on the 405 about 3-4 years ago totally hopped up on something. He pleaded the 5th....and his high-priced lawyer got him out that morning. So another MONSTER behind the wheel had the wherewithal to get out of trouble. Fancy that eh? But now it's whine whine whine. Boo-hoo....poor me.

Who am I to judge? Well.....I have to take the effin 405 just about every day. I'd rather not get killed by some drugged up monster, who has the $$$ and the smarts to get his high-priced lawyer to bail him out (but we hear he's just the GREATEST guy....) whenever he gets caught. Ever wonder how often he makes that drive? I do...whenever I work late out there. There's alot of families with a piece or two missing, thanks to drug-hollowed folks like Lamar.

Lamar doesn't need statues, or Laker contracts.....he needs help. And if he won't help himself....then he needs to be behind bars. Or we can all just wait for the inevitable. Let's just hope he doesn't take innocent people with him, eh?

Sorry man....I'm not laying this at the feet of the Kardashians. This is him, and his addiction.

[danfantastk32]

Hate to rain on any parades. There was a time when I was a big Odom fan myself.

But he sobered up as some point after he got arrested. And he had a choice right then and there to say "I have to make a change before I hurt someone". Clearly he didn't.....as the club incident about a year later showed.

No hate.....but I also think we as a society shouldn't have to share the road/tolerate guys like this.

[Slink]

Hate to rain on any parades. There was a time when I was a big Odom fan myself.

But he sobered up as some point after he got arrested. And he had a choice right then and there to say "I have to make a change before I hurt someone". Clearly he didn't.....as the club incident about a year later showed.

No hate.....but I also think we as a society shouldn't have to share the road/tolerate guys like this.

See this is the thing with people that have drug problems, they can make the wrong decisions several times before the realize they need to make a change. It's unrealistic to expect Odom to change his life on just one incident. It's a long process.

[Rafer24]

Amazing player, one of my favourites laker. I would have loved see him retiring here.

[gts1]

yep this is 100% on Lamar's shoulders.

I believe we've identified what you guys do when no one's watching. Guilty pleasure?

What?....A guy can't call out a dude with a massive drug addiction, without being a Kardashian fan?

haha i had no idea what the heck he was talking about...

Never watched the show once.

As for Lamar it is 100% on his shoulders... I've pulled for him to get sober as I always have and always will but I'm not gonna cry for him.. He has enough enablers in his life already. I grew up in a house with an alky and knew up close how an addict will blame everyone but themselves to justify their addiction. The only person who can break that cycle is the addict themselves and until they accept that it's nobodies fault but their own, they'll just keep falling off the wagon until they get it or die from it.

[Kilroy]

IMO Odom quit on the team and his career. After the CP3 trade failed, he was still a Laker... He could have still retired a Laker then. But he pouted and made it clear he was never going to get over it, which essentially forced us to trade him. And we got very little in return.
So I like Odom and would like to see this happen on one level. On another, I'm already bored with this...
If it had already happened, cool... Now it's going to feel forced.

[TheHartBreakKid]

Hate to rain on any parades. There was a time when I was a big Odom fan myself.

But he sobered up as some point after he got arrested. And he had a choice right then and there to say "I have to make a change before I hurt someone". Clearly he didn't.....as the club incident about a year later showed.

No hate.....but I also think we as a society shouldn't have to share the road/tolerate guys like this.

I completely understand and respect your point that just because you're "calling out Lamar" doesn't mean you're a "kardashian fan", and the idea that this is on Lamar more than anything.


That being said, I think you've probably been fortunate enough to not be affected by addiction and mental health issues personally, and as someone who unfortunately can't say the same thing, I believe your views on this is a little harsh. I'm in no way saying Lamar is blameless.....as you said, it's hard to help someone who won't help themselves. That being said, it's a little bit more complicated than simply making better decisions...though I completely do agree that an individual who refuses to seek help deserves a good portion of the blame.


Now, regarding the Lakers. The Lakers had a basketball team to run, and did what was best for their basketball team. For Lamar to blame his downward spiral on the trade is very silly to me, and it seems like an addict/troubled individual making an excuse, which is a common thing to happen in those situations. Lamar's mental health issues were a ticking time bomb, and with or without the trade, I personally believe he had to face them eventually.


i loved LAmar as a player, and I was devastated to hear about his overdose. I was also ecstatic that he was lucky enough to survive, and I sincerely hope he gets the help he needs, and as I said, my personal experiences in life makes me feel a lot of sympathy for him. However, as much as I feel more sympathy rather than blaming him, I still do believe that he needs to be responsible for his own contribution to his illness.

This is my analogy for mental health issues and addiction....I'll never blame for someone having heart problems do to the genetic factors and other causes out of their control. However, I will consider them atleast partially responsible if they do have heart disease and continue to not watch their diet, not excercise, and smoke. Addiction is a disease, and Lamar is unfortunate enough to suffer from it. However, it's a disease that can be treated or atleast managed, and refusing to get help falls directly on his shoulders.


As for the Lakers signing him stuff, that would be amazing, and would make me very happy to see. The Lakers are, in my opinion, a very loyal franchise relatively, and if he proves that he has his mind right, I would hope that the Lakers provide him with some career opportunities as well, though they are in no way responsible for doing that. It would be nice to see though.


and PS, to anyone who hasn't read Lamar's Players Tribune piece, you absolutely should. It makes you understand what he was going through. Like I said, he hasn't handled his issues perfectly, and should take some responsibility for that, but I have no doubt that he's a selfless, caring human being who has just dealt with a lot in his life time.

[TheHartBreakKid]

IMO Odom quit on the team and his career. After the CP3 trade failed, he was still a Laker... He could have still retired a Laker then. But he pouted and made it clear he was never going to get over it, which essentially forced us to trade him. And we got very little in return.
So I like Odom and would like to see this happen on one level. On another, I'm already bored with this...
If it had already happened, cool... Now it's going to feel forced.

It's definitely forced....but sometimes a gesture can have a powerful effect on someone even if it seems a little silly to others. For a recovering addict, the simple corny event of signing a symbolic contract and getting a large ovation can be very meaningful. Lamar is clearly very sensitive....


It's defintiely not the Laker's responsibility to do this, but as someone who is very sympathetic towards people facing these type of issues, I believe it's a very classy move from the Lakers, I hope to see it happen.

[Kilroy]

IMO Odom quit on the team and his career. After the CP3 trade failed, he was still a Laker... He could have still retired a Laker then. But he pouted and made it clear he was never going to get over it, which essentially forced us to trade him. And we got very little in return.
So I like Odom and would like to see this happen on one level. On another, I'm already bored with this...
If it had already happened, cool... Now it's going to feel forced.

It's definitely forced....but sometimes a gesture can have a powerful effect on someone even if it seems a little silly to others. For a recovering addict, the simple corny event of signing a symbolic contract and getting a large ovation can be very meaningful. Lamar is clearly very sensitive....


It's defintiely not the Laker's responsibility to do this, but as someone who is very sympathetic towards people facing these type of issues, I believe it's a very classy move from the Lakers, I hope to see it happen.

Sure, but there's a fine line between a meaningful gesture and enabling the addiction... Meaning, I have a feeling this whole thing is being driven by Odom rather than the Lakers, as part of his quest to get back on TV. Which is probably not especially good for him or his recovery.

Anyway, whatever... If it happens, great, I'll celebrate it and hope for the best for him. If it doesn't, I'll just assume the Org thought it wasn't appropriate, and trust their judgment. I really don't have a dog in this particular hunt.

[TheHartBreakKid]

IMO Odom quit on the team and his career. After the CP3 trade failed, he was still a Laker... He could have still retired a Laker then. But he pouted and made it clear he was never going to get over it, which essentially forced us to trade him. And we got very little in return.
So I like Odom and would like to see this happen on one level. On another, I'm already bored with this...
If it had already happened, cool... Now it's going to feel forced.

It's definitely forced....but sometimes a gesture can have a powerful effect on someone even if it seems a little silly to others. For a recovering addict, the simple corny event of signing a symbolic contract and getting a large ovation can be very meaningful. Lamar is clearly very sensitive....


It's defintiely not the Laker's responsibility to do this, but as someone who is very sympathetic towards people facing these type of issues, I believe it's a very classy move from the Lakers, I hope to see it happen.

Sure, but there's a fine line between a meaningful gesture and enabling the addiction... Meaning, I have a feeling this whole thing is being driven by Odom rather than the Lakers, as part of his quest to get back on TV. Which is probably not especially good for him or his recovery.

Anyway, whatever... If it happens, great, I'll celebrate it and hope for the best for him. If it doesn't, I'll just assume the Org thought it wasn't appropriate, and trust their judgment. I really don't have a dog in this particular hunt.

if that's the case, then I couldn't agree with you more.

[Jedi32]

some of you guys make great points, but it's hard for me to be mad at lo. i know everyone has issues but it's easy to say what someone could/should do when you haven't been in their shoes. odom was crying about money or playing time,he considered the lakers family,and if you knew his background you'd understand why. sometimes even in business you have to look beyond dollars, cents , winning or whatever. just my 2 cents.

[danfantastk32]

That being said, I think you've probably been fortunate enough to not be affected by addiction and mental health issues personally, and as someone who unfortunately can't say the same thing, I believe your views on this is a little harsh. I'm in no way saying Lamar is blameless.....as you said, it's hard to help someone who won't help themselves. That being said, it's a little bit more complicated than simply making better decisions...though I completely do agree that an individual who refuses to seek help deserves a good portion of the blame.

This is my analogy for mental health issues and addiction....I'll never blame for someone having heart problems do to the genetic factors and other causes out of their control. However, I will consider them atleast partially responsible if they do have heart disease and continue to not watch their diet, not excercise, and smoke."

What if that person with the heart problem hid it....had a lawyer seal his medical files from his employer....and continued to be a sky-diving instructor?

I get what your saying....but it's one thing to have compassion for someone trying to work through it...and it's another, to have compassion for someone putting others lives at risk.

Does anyone here know what sort of voices, or haunting mental junk a dude with pedaphilia deals with? Of course not...but it's not really your/my problem, is it? The second a guy starts stalking, or whatever....it becomes a different matter, and compassion is a wasted word.

I'm sure I am gonna hear: "how dare you compare drugged-driving to kiddie-junk"

Well....I know a guy who was hopped up on PCP, and hit a woman going almost 70mph down a 35-40mph road. I barely knew the guy, and this was like 20 years ago....but they had to use dental records to identify her (he had a Ford truck). Look her husband or kids (if she had any) in the face and ask them how they'd dare compare it.

I have a good friend who lost her brother to drunk driving. Look her in the face, and ask how'd she dare compare.

If Lamar went into rehab, and cleaned up....you'd find me to be one of those guys who'd be incredibly compassionate. I'd give him a job myself, and would love to see him on the sidelines with the Lakers...or as an assistant coach...or whatever.

But right now isn't that time. Right now there are innocent people that he's putting in harms way. Like the skydiving instructor who had his condition hid through the courts....what Lamar is doing is indefensible. And it doesn't matter how hard it is for him. What matters, is he needs to be put behind bars if he won't stop getting drugged up.

Save the compassion for the millions fighting the good fight we all go through in our own way every day. Don't waste it on those selfish few who'd put you and your family at risk for their own selfish ends.

Anyhow....I think this conversation is prob a little too intense for the Laker chats. We come here (at least I do) to get away from the intense stuff. But it really bugs me how LA (fans, media, players, management) all deal with the Lamar issue. Right now there should be a campaign to follow Lamar at clubs and report him the moment he gets behind the wheel....and get him off the streets. But instead we almost enable him. Tell him what a great guy he is....defend him from "jerks" like me. He deserves nothing from the Lakers, and shouldn't be linked or anything until he gets clean. And he should be shamed for getting behind the wheel while high...not defended.

Would you care how "hard its been to deal with, for him" if he hurt someone you love?

[danfantastk32]

BTW....don't take anything I say as personal. I know your not calling me a jerk, and 90% of the time when I use the word 'you' I don't literally mean you.

Lamar was a loveable guy. I get that it's hard not to feel bad for the guy. Down deep...I feel bad for him. Im sorry this went this way. But sorry aint gonna make his car slow down, if he runs through a red light at 60mph, you know?

[TheHartBreakKid]

BTW....don't take anything I say as personal. I know your not calling me a jerk, and 90% of the time when I use the word 'you' I don't literally mean you.

Lamar was a loveable guy. I get that it's hard not to feel bad for the guy. Down deep...I feel bad for him. Im sorry this went this way. But sorry aint gonna make his car slow down, if he runs through a red light at 60mph, you know?

You know what....I can't hate on any of your points, even though I may not agree with them 100 personally.It's an "intense" issue like you said. It's a sensitive issue. Where is the line between being compassionate and enabling someone? That's something I'm not sure I know. I personally don't think you're a jerk by any means, and I don't think anyone else in this thread does either.


I'll be the first person to criticize any behavior of Lamar (or any one else in a similiar situation) that may put others in danger. I may have lots of compassion for people in situations like that, but I couldn't agree more that there is no excuse for putting others in risk, no matter what personal turmoil someone is going through. I agree that those around him, and even the public, shouldn't tolerate dangerous and selfish behavior that may affect others.



Truthefully, I haven't kept up with his actions too closely since the overdose. This may be naive from my end, but I truly do believe he's a good guy and I really hope he can get past of all of this, though the realist in me knows it's just not that simple. I hope everything works out for him, and I agree 100% that he should monitored closely to prevent him endangering others or himself.

[danfantastk32]

You know what....I can't hate on any of your points, even though I may not agree with them 100 personally.It's an "intense" issue like you said. It's a sensitive issue.

Glad to see we could discuss this like adults. It is pretty intense. There are certainly sides / shades / nuances..and we're dealing with the human mind, and chemical addiction.

Let's all hope Lamar comes back to us. It's what we all would like to see

[Beethoven]

Danfantastk and wafer's points are both great. I appreciated the read here today. Glad to see meticulously thoughtfully-minded persons on this forum.

[LascelleL]

Lakers board is full of Mature members. I would like to see Lamar back on the team in a symbolic gesture. And I would love to see him play in one regular season game with Kobe in the stands....God I miss that Lakers team so much.

[TheHartBreakKid]

Lakers board is full of Mature members. I would like to see Lamar back on the team in a symbolic gesture. And I would love to see him play in one regular season game with Kobe in the stands....God I miss that Lakers team so much.

I too loved that team on a whole other level...they were just so fun to watch. And I think Lamar's game/personality was embodied that team so much....It wasn't a perfect team. We had some hero ball, we had a lack of balance. It wasn't near perfect basketball like the Warriors right now in terms of ball movement and shooting, though it was a relatively flashy team like the Current Warriors. It certainly wasn't a perfectly ran machine like Pop's Spurs, and the star power wasn't as prominent on Lebron's latest teams. And last but not least, it was definitely not this super gritty 2010 Celtics like defensive powerhouse either.


That team was a balance of everything. We had star power and hero ball, but we also had balance and ball movement. We weren't this automatic 3 point shooting powerhouse, but we had shooters...defense was never the team's identity, but they could crack down and lock team downs as good as anyone.

Anyways, I'm getting off topic, but that team was just awesome, and I think Lamar is the perfect player to compare that team as a whole too. It was a very talented team, and it sometimes underachieved, but it had heart and worked hard. It had selfish moments but as a whole the team was unselfish and dedicated to winning. It wasn't super flashy, but the right amount of flash to keep things interesting. Not the most athletic team, but you still had highlights left and right.


Kobe and Pau were the muscle, Phil and Kobe were the brains, but Lamar was the heart of that team.