Do you think Aaron Gordon will emerge as a breakout star this year?

[VFX]

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Probably an encouraging list if you're not the best perimeter shooter.

Gordon's usage went up when he moved back to PF. I wonder how many of those attempts came with that move back

He had 99 dunks i think last year, that's best FGA you can take

Also happens to be the only thing he can do on the offensive side of the court unlike the rest of the players on that list.

[magicman112]

Magic fans view him as future star, but again, same people were yelling he is new Paul Geroge 365 days ago and he was Dr.Green 400 days ago to same people, new Blake Griffin 1000 days ago. Hell, i saw some Lebron comparisons "with passing upside" in 2014

I agree that this is THE critical season for Gordon. If he does not get-better, the Magic will shop for a new starting PF.

But to look at some numbers.

Paul George
20yo - 7ppg/4rpg
21yo - 12ppg/5rpg
22yo - 17ppg/7rpg

Aaron Gordon
20yo - 9ppg/6rpg (better than George)
21yo - 12ppg/5rpg (same as George)
22yo - time to earn your pay check!

If Gordon has a 17/7 season this season, we fans can be comfortable with him over the longer term. But another 12/5 season will not be enough.


..

This is it for AG, Elf, and many of the other core guys from the old regime. Weltman said he saw some good things at the end of the season which is why he chose not to clean house this offseason. But if these guys don't show some kind of progress you can bet come deadline time you're gonna see the start of some big moves.

[pepe1991]

Gordon's usage went up when he moved back to PF. I wonder how many of those attempts came with that move back

He had 99 dunks i think last year, that's best FGA you can take

Also happens to be the only thing he can do on the offensive side of the court unlike the rest of the players on that list.

He is also only player on the list who is averaging less than 20 ppg

[drsd]

He is also only player on the list who is averaging less than 20 ppg

Coupling this to the list of Fournier being clutch, what I read is thus: players are not being used to their maximal abilities.

If Gordon is hot from inside, pound the ball to him. If Fournier "can't miss" at the end of quarters, he should be the only player with the ball.


..

[PrimeThyme]

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He's going to prove all of yall wrong.

[tiderulz]

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He's going to prove all of yall wrong.

i doubt it, but i would love to be wrong

[Bensational]

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He's going to prove all of yall wrong.

i doubt it, but i would love to be wrong

What do you doubt, the shooting, the playoffs, or all of it?

I'm glad to hear he sounds more confident in his jumper. I'm happy for him to let it fly this season. He seems like the sort of guy who's capable of becoming a reliable shooter during his career, just with his work ethic and confidence. I reckon by mid-late 20's, he'll be a hitting close to 40% from 3 on a considerable volume of shots.

[pepe1991]

Read on Twitter

He's going to prove all of yall wrong.

i doubt it, but i would love to be wrong

What do you doubt, the shooting, the playoffs, or all of it?

I'm glad to hear he sounds more confident in his jumper. I'm happy for him to let it fly this season. He seems like the sort of guy who's capable of becoming a reliable shooter during his career, just with his work ethic and confidence. I reckon by mid-late 20's, he'll be a hitting close to 40% from 3 on a considerable volume of shots.

32,3% - his percentage on jumpshots from 3 months ago.
42,5% on wide open 2 FGA jumpers, dunks included ( data inflated by wide open dunks)
35% on wide open 3s ,still below league average, 18% of 3s being wide open tells that it was opponents plan to leave him open and dare him to shoot.

Can he get better at shooting? I guess. I mean, he missed 67,7% of all shots he took .
He was actually even worst in pullup situations. Just bit over 31% in 2 FGA, 24% in pull up threes.

I find it reasonable to consider that somebody who is that awful shooter, should find other ways than shooting to improve his game,especially now when he can forget about playing SF position under Magic ever again.

[Bensational]

i doubt it, but i would love to be wrong

What do you doubt, the shooting, the playoffs, or all of it?

I'm glad to hear he sounds more confident in his jumper. I'm happy for him to let it fly this season. He seems like the sort of guy who's capable of becoming a reliable shooter during his career, just with his work ethic and confidence. I reckon by mid-late 20's, he'll be a hitting close to 40% from 3 on a considerable volume of shots.

32,3% - his percentage on jumpshots from 3 months ago.
42,5% on wide open 2 FGA jumpers, dunks included ( data inflated by wide open dunks)
35% on wide open 3s ,still below league average, 18% of 3s being wide open tells that it was opponents plan to leave him open and dare him to shoot.

Can he get better at shooting? I guess. I mean, he missed 67,7% of all shots he took .
He was actually even worst in pullup situations. Just bit over 31% in 2 FGA, 24% in pull up threes.

I find it reasonable to consider that somebody who is that awful shooter, should find other ways than shooting to improve his game,especially now when he can forget about playing SF position under Magic ever again.

AG is just getting ahead of the game for players of his mould. Sure, he could develop a post up game and continue scoring as a high flyer until age or injury strips him of that ability, but even if he became good at those his shooting limitations would hold him back.

But he's working on his jumpshot now, instead. And that should only help the rest of his game.

I mean, what's the ultimate ceiling you see for him as a player? I'd say some version of Draymond Green or Millsap. Neither of those guys were great shooters at 22, let alone 21. Griffin, Bosh and Horford didn't become reasonable 3pt shooters until their late 20's. Jabari Parker only started nailing the 3 this season.

I think it's a great sign that AG is so focused on his shooting and ballhandling. It shows that he's got aspirations on being more than just a role player. But, his actions on the court show that he's also not selfish enough to impose that on the team regardless of the cost.

Either way, I reckon he's still got 3 more years of solid development in him until we start seeing what a complete AG will actually look like. Whether fans and management have the patience to wait that long is another question.

[tiderulz]

Read on Twitter

He's going to prove all of yall wrong.

i doubt it, but i would love to be wrong

What do you doubt, the shooting, the playoffs, or all of it?

I'm glad to hear he sounds more confident in his jumper. I'm happy for him to let it fly this season. He seems like the sort of guy who's capable of becoming a reliable shooter during his career, just with his work ethic and confidence. I reckon by mid-late 20's, he'll be a hitting close to 40% from 3 on a considerable volume of shots.

his shooting. and i have serious doubts on whether he goes over 36% from 3, let alone 40%

[tiderulz]

What do you doubt, the shooting, the playoffs, or all of it?

I'm glad to hear he sounds more confident in his jumper. I'm happy for him to let it fly this season. He seems like the sort of guy who's capable of becoming a reliable shooter during his career, just with his work ethic and confidence. I reckon by mid-late 20's, he'll be a hitting close to 40% from 3 on a considerable volume of shots.

32,3% - his percentage on jumpshots from 3 months ago.
42,5% on wide open 2 FGA jumpers, dunks included ( data inflated by wide open dunks)
35% on wide open 3s ,still below league average, 18% of 3s being wide open tells that it was opponents plan to leave him open and dare him to shoot.

Can he get better at shooting? I guess. I mean, he missed 67,7% of all shots he took .
He was actually even worst in pullup situations. Just bit over 31% in 2 FGA, 24% in pull up threes.

I find it reasonable to consider that somebody who is that awful shooter, should find other ways than shooting to improve his game,especially now when he can forget about playing SF position under Magic ever again.

AG is just getting ahead of the game for players of his mould. Sure, he could develop a post up game and continue scoring as a high flyer until age or injury strips him of that ability, but even if he became good at those his shooting limitations would hold him back.

But he's working on his jumpshot now, instead. And that should only help the rest of his game.

I mean, what's the ultimate ceiling you see for him as a player? I'd say some version of Draymond Green or Millsap. Neither of those guys were great shooters at 22, let alone 21. Griffin, Bosh and Horford didn't become reasonable 3pt shooters until their late 20's. Jabari Parker only started nailing the 3 this season.

I think it's a great sign that AG is so focused on his shooting and ballhandling. It shows that he's got aspirations on being more than just a role player. But, his actions on the court show that he's also not selfish enough to impose that on the team regardless of the cost.

Either way, I reckon he's still got 3 more years of solid development in him until we start seeing what a complete AG will actually look like. Whether fans and management have the patience to wait that long is another question.

But Griffin, Bosh and Horford werent as bad from 2 as Gordon is. I think Millsap would be a good model for Gordon to try and follow and a good "hope" for his ceiling.

[VFX]

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He's going to prove all of yall wrong.

Can't wait for him to prove me wrong. I have history and data on my side, but that doesn't mean he can't develop. Also, it's good to see he is really working on these things considering a PF without the ability to stretch the floor (or create any real offense ) shouldn't be getting starters minutes or see the floor for extended time.

[MagicStarwipe]

I still remember when Trevor Ariza wasn't even allowed to take jumpers he was so bad at it. Now that's pretty much all he does.

[pepe1991]

What do you doubt, the shooting, the playoffs, or all of it?

I'm glad to hear he sounds more confident in his jumper. I'm happy for him to let it fly this season. He seems like the sort of guy who's capable of becoming a reliable shooter during his career, just with his work ethic and confidence. I reckon by mid-late 20's, he'll be a hitting close to 40% from 3 on a considerable volume of shots.

32,3% - his percentage on jumpshots from 3 months ago.
42,5% on wide open 2 FGA jumpers, dunks included ( data inflated by wide open dunks)
35% on wide open 3s ,still below league average, 18% of 3s being wide open tells that it was opponents plan to leave him open and dare him to shoot.

Can he get better at shooting? I guess. I mean, he missed 67,7% of all shots he took .
He was actually even worst in pullup situations. Just bit over 31% in 2 FGA, 24% in pull up threes.

I find it reasonable to consider that somebody who is that awful shooter, should find other ways than shooting to improve his game,especially now when he can forget about playing SF position under Magic ever again.

AG is just getting ahead of the game for players of his mould. Sure, he could develop a post up game and continue scoring as a high flyer until age or injury strips him of that ability, but even if he became good at those his shooting limitations would hold him back.

But he's working on his jumpshot now, instead. And that should only help the rest of his game.

I mean, what's the ultimate ceiling you see for him as a player? I'd say some version of Draymond Green or Millsap. Neither of those guys were great shooters at 22, let alone 21. Griffin, Bosh and Horford didn't become reasonable 3pt shooters until their late 20's. Jabari Parker only started nailing the 3 this season.

I think it's a great sign that AG is so focused on his shooting and ballhandling. It shows that he's got aspirations on being more than just a role player. But, his actions on the court show that he's also not selfish enough to impose that on the team regardless of the cost.

Either way, I reckon he's still got 3 more years of solid development in him until we start seeing what a complete AG will actually look like. Whether fans and management have the patience to wait that long is another question.

I think that there is huge disconnect on this forum what Gordon is and what people want him to be . Look at a names you dropped.
Chris Bosh. Blake Griffin. They were great offensive players who expended their game.
Chris Bosh at age of 21 averaged 22 points per game, on 58,5 % TS and was already named an allstar ( officially played first allstar game in his third season -at age of 21-22 ).
Blake Griffin. 22 ppg in rookie year, allstar in first season in nba, at age of 21.


He simply isn't that level of talent, he never was. All you need is to compare first 3 years of Griffin, Bosh and Gordon to laugh at his 12 ppg, they were getting that by halftime.

Now Millsap and Green are hard to judge , for what they were and what they are.
Millsap played in shadow of ,at times, good PF Carloz Boozer. We talk about times before he painted his head in black to "fake out " hair and before Carloz Loozer was a thing.

Green is even harder to judge because he is third (to fourth ) best player on championship team ( 2015 ),where 2 players ahead of him on that team are all time greats. Curry is already making case for one of greatest PGs of all time and Klay is headed to same direction, as top 5-8 SG of all time as well. And in 2015 you can make strong argument that Igoudala was better, more important for them than Green.

To me, Gordon is heading into Oladipo and Harris direction for two years now, where there is clear disconnect between what fans want him to be and what he is. Both ex Magic players were targeted as " A guy" at one point of their career, and both of them never lived up to that ,because they simply didn't have tools to do so. Not to mentioned that Gordon actually showed less on offense than any of them, but for whatever reason he gets away from being medicore much easier than two of them ever could.

Now i could make whole list of reasons why Magic fans have so much expuces why he isn't star yet, but that's topic for another day. To me it's simple. He isn't star for same reason I'm not basketball player. Lack of talent. That's why you see Embiid in rookie year looking like a beast, that's why you see Porzingis in rookie year looking great, that's why you see KAT being star from gates.... and that's why you see me on forum, not in nba

[pepe1991]

I still remember when Trevor Ariza wasn't even allowed to take jumpers he was so bad at it. Now that's pretty much all he does.

I remember times when Trevor Ariza was nothing more than role player. But some things never change.

[Bensational]

32,3% - his percentage on jumpshots from 3 months ago.
42,5% on wide open 2 FGA jumpers, dunks included ( data inflated by wide open dunks)
35% on wide open 3s ,still below league average, 18% of 3s being wide open tells that it was opponents plan to leave him open and dare him to shoot.

Can he get better at shooting? I guess. I mean, he missed 67,7% of all shots he took .
He was actually even worst in pullup situations. Just bit over 31% in 2 FGA, 24% in pull up threes.

I find it reasonable to consider that somebody who is that awful shooter, should find other ways than shooting to improve his game,especially now when he can forget about playing SF position under Magic ever again.

AG is just getting ahead of the game for players of his mould. Sure, he could develop a post up game and continue scoring as a high flyer until age or injury strips him of that ability, but even if he became good at those his shooting limitations would hold him back.

But he's working on his jumpshot now, instead. And that should only help the rest of his game.

I mean, what's the ultimate ceiling you see for him as a player? I'd say some version of Draymond Green or Millsap. Neither of those guys were great shooters at 22, let alone 21. Griffin, Bosh and Horford didn't become reasonable 3pt shooters until their late 20's. Jabari Parker only started nailing the 3 this season.

I think it's a great sign that AG is so focused on his shooting and ballhandling. It shows that he's got aspirations on being more than just a role player. But, his actions on the court show that he's also not selfish enough to impose that on the team regardless of the cost.

Either way, I reckon he's still got 3 more years of solid development in him until we start seeing what a complete AG will actually look like. Whether fans and management have the patience to wait that long is another question.

I think that there is huge disconnect on this forum what Gordon is and what people want him to be . Look at a names you dropped.
Chris Bosh. Blake Griffin. They were great offensive players who expended their game.
Chris Bosh at age of 21 averaged 22 points per game, on 58,5 % TS and was already named an allstar ( officially played first allstar game in his third season -at age of 21-22 ).
Blake Griffin. 22 ppg in rookie year, allstar in first season in nba, at age of 21.


He simply isn't that level of talent, he never was. All you need is to compare first 3 years of Griffin, Bosh and Gordon to laugh at his 12 ppg, they were getting that by halftime.

Now Millsap and Green are hard to judge , for what they were and what they are.
Millsap played in shadow of ,at times, good PF Carloz Boozer. We talk about times before he painted his head in black to "fake out " hair and before Carloz Loozer was a thing.

Green is even harder to judge because he is third (to fourth ) best player on championship team ( 2015 ),where 2 players ahead of him on that team are all time greats. Curry is already making case for one of greatest PGs of all time and Klay is headed to same direction, as top 5-8 SG of all time as well. And in 2015 you can make strong argument that Igoudala was better, more important for them than Green.

To me, Gordon is heading into Oladipo and Harris direction for two years now, where there is clear disconnect between what fans want him to be and what he is. Both ex Magic players were targeted as " A guy" at one point of their career, and both of them never lived up to that ,because they simply didn't have tools to do so. Not to mentioned that Gordon actually showed less on offense than any of them, but for whatever reason he gets away from being medicore much easier than two of them ever could.

Now i could make whole list of reasons why Magic fans have so much expuces why he isn't star yet, but that's topic for another day. To me it's simple. He isn't star for same reason I'm not basketball player. Lack of talent. That's why you see Embiid in rookie year looking like a beast, that's why you see Porzingis in rookie year looking great, that's why you see KAT being star from gates.... and that's why you see me on forum, not in nba

See, you spent all that time dismissing a comp of AG to Griffin/Bosh which I never made. I simply put their names down as examples of bigs who didn't expand their games to being respectable 3pt shooters until later in their careers. As in, you would never have looked at rookie Blake Griffin and said "oh yeah, he'll be hitting 34% from 3 on 3 attempts a game at some point", because it just didn't seem to gel with the rest of his game.

My comp was to Green and Millsap, who are invaluable utility guys who play smart, unselfish basketball on both ends of the court, and who can score at a decent clip pretty efficiently.

I'm not disagreeing with what you've said about AG not showing offensive skill to this date. Last season he was much more hesitant than I would have liked him to be. Sure, you could write him off at 21 and say "well, he'll never be any more than what he's showing us right now". But I believe he's got the mentality and attitude to continue growing and becoming a much more complete player, and I think that growth will continue on until his late 20's.

Harris certainly has more natural offensive instincts than Gordon. Oladipo doesn't, and didn't. He came into the league and was thrust into becoming a ball dominant scoring guard which he'd never been before, at AG's current age. We could do the same to AG to try to expedite his development, but we choose not to, and he chooses not to force it.

Keep watching AG. I'm prepared to make a longterm bet that by age 27, he'll be posting similar numbers to what Millsap has been doing the past couple of seasons, and he'll be a top 3 player on a highly competitive team, with similar impact to Draymond/Iggy on the Warriors. But, that's 5 years away, so chances he's doing it with Orlando seem slim.

[JF5]

See, you spent all that time dismissing a comp of AG to Griffin/Bosh which I never made. I simply put their names down as examples of bigs who didn't expand their games to being respectable 3pt shooters until later in their careers. As in, you would never have looked at rookie Blake Griffin and said "oh yeah, he'll be hitting 34% from 3 on 3 attempts a game at some point", because it just didn't seem to gel with the rest of his game.

My comp was to Green and Millsap, who are invaluable utility guys who play smart, unselfish basketball on both ends of the court, and who can score at a decent clip pretty efficiently.

I'm not disagreeing with what you've said about AG not showing offensive skill to this date. Last season he was much more hesitant than I would have liked him to be. Sure, you could write him off at 21 and say "well, he'll never be any more than what he's showing us right now". But I believe he's got the mentality and attitude to continue growing and becoming a much more complete player, and I think that growth will continue on until his late 20's.

Harris certainly has more natural offensive instincts than Gordon. Oladipo doesn't, and didn't. He came into the league and was thrust into becoming a ball dominant scoring guard which he'd never been before, at AG's current age. We could do the same to AG to try to expedite his development, but we choose not to, and he chooses not to force it.

Keep watching AG. I'm prepared to make a longterm bet that by age 27, he'll be posting similar numbers to what Millsap has been doing the past couple of seasons, and he'll be a top 3 player on a highly competitive team, with similar impact to Draymond/Iggy on the Warriors. But, that's 5 years away, so chances he's doing it with Orlando seem slim.

What said in the last paragraph is what I've saying about him/hoping for since he's been drafted.

Plus, I find your second to last paragraph perplexing. The Magic forced Oladipo to become something he was not, and the Magic have done and are continuing to do the samething with AG by sliding him into the 3 to make him the default go-to-guy on offense which much worse than the Vic experience. Oladipo coming into the league in his rookie year showed flashes of taking over a game while being ball dominate (That infamous Knicks game where he went back-and-forth with Melo and the Pacer game where he took over down the stretch). That's why there was hope for him for the time he was here. Gordon in his 3 years at both the SF or PF position hasn't showcased ANY of that. I think you need to stop focusing on his mentality (because I think he's got a high BBIQ and plays the game the right way when he's not forced out of position). But its more of him having his talents misused.

He's not a ball-dominate/offensively inclined player that's ever going to consistently take you off the dribble/pick and roll. He's never played that way from High School/College/NBA, so is that going to change now? It's best for him to just kind of work on his strengths and build from there as a player. If he pick up a decent offensive game, fine. But his money will be made by being a utility player on both sides of the ball like you said.

[PennytoShaq]

I still remember when Trevor Ariza wasn't even allowed to take jumpers he was so bad at it. Now that's pretty much all he does.

I remember times when Trevor Ariza was nothing more than role player. But some things never change.

A role player with a ring who was able to spread the floor for Kobe. The point was that Ariza could not shoot at first and over time he became a very effective shooter. Not sure how that flew over your head, it was pretty obvious what the actual point was.

[tiderulz]

I still remember when Trevor Ariza wasn't even allowed to take jumpers he was so bad at it. Now that's pretty much all he does.

well, its half of what he does, and he isnt a star by any means.

but the shooting point is true

[tiderulz]

Keep watching AG. I'm prepared to make a longterm bet that by age 27, he'll be posting similar numbers to what Millsap has been doing the past couple of seasons, and he'll be a top 3 player on a highly competitive team, with similar impact to Draymond/Iggy on the Warriors. But, that's 5 years away, so chances he's doing it with Orlando seem slim.

that would be what though, 8-9 years into the league?