Draft Lottery Reform & Resting Player Fines, Approved by B of Gov's. 09-28-17 ~ Woj

[Crossy2008]

The major factor that is largely at fault is that not all drafts are created equal. Say Brooklyn had their pick this year, but the draft class was the Bennett #1 overall draft. They would have been bad because they were bad, and got no long term benefit from it.

Philly probably wouldn't have been able to tank had they drafted better players than Okafor, Noel, and an injured Embiid. Had they drafted Westbrook, Jordan, and a healthy Embiid, then they wouldn't have Fultz or Simmons because they'd be good.

I don't think there is a way to fix the draft classes, so there's going to be inconsistent team building no matter what happens. It really comes down to scouting, luck, or some combination of the two. The NBA is doing great right now, and basketball on the international stage is really growing. Those two factors should help produce some amazing talent, and hopefully a thicker talent pool.

[sully00]

The wheel is an absolutely horrendous idea, it gets rid of tanking and creates much much much worse problems. So now teams can't rebuild through the draft, say you're the Bulls and now you get say the 30th, 15th, and 5th pick over the next 3 years. Wtf do you do? Who is going to sign and join a garbage team? And now say we give the Warriors the 5th pick in the draft, is that what we want?

Tanking isn't even the issue, the issue is soft cap and max contracts. LeBron makes like 32 mill and Horford makes 26, both at max contract. Those two aren't anywhere close in impact yet are only capped 6 mill apart. If you want to adjust the odds and range of the lotto okay..but the wheel would be a massive mistake. I think people grossly exaggerate the amount of teams tanking anyways, people kept saying Milwaukee was tanking when they went all in for the 8th seed a few years ago and somehow ended up with the worst record in the league.

Absolute nonsense. It's real easy what you do - you start getting good at your job. The Celtics highest self-inflicted pick was Marcus Smart at #6. None of this "whoa is me how can I get better - geez I'm stuck here forever with no capabilities to change it." Golden State is laughing all the way to the bank on that ridiculous false philosophy. Where was this mandatory high draft pick, that you need to have by losing, to be a championship team ?
In today's NBA the well-run franchises have to have management that is savvy, has a great understanding of player's value (I think we've all heard of Jae Crowder and IT) know when to hold and let go of players, and have tremendous foresight with the salary cap. So you want to continually reward teams, trying to lose, with high picks like the Sixers, and right in front of your face in Boston none of that was done and the high draft picks they got done by being a good organization, not sitting around waiting to be bailed out. It looks like the disgrace of Philly losing on purpose is panning out for them. May it never happen again. Losing on purpose is NBA's version of steroids - a total black eye on the sport. What's really horrendous is people think it's totally acceptable

How many teams are actually tanking year in year out? Orlando hasn't, they signed Biyombo and traded for Ibaka. Phoenix hasn't, they signed Tyson Chandler and almost Aldridge and tried to trade for Kyrie and allegedly Love. Brooklyn sure as hell hasn't. The Lakers paid up big for Mozgov and Deng.

Everyone is saying this is a major issue but who are these teams that are doing this? And the league basically put the cabosh on what Philly did. Philly is basically the only one who did it. A draft wheel would be a massive overreaction and mistake.

The NBA's parity problems lies in the max contracts, getting a LeBron, Steph, or a KD at the max is the biggest bargain you can get from a value/production stand point.

While PHI took it to a ridiculous level, multiple teams every year will intentionally tank. Most teams don't make it their organizational philosophy it is just something you resort to in Jan or Feb when hope is kind of lost. Last year LAL, PHO, and ORL were intentionally losing games based roster and line up management. I think the Lakers actually got concerned the league would come down on them near the end of the year.

The changes proposed will not stop teams from rebuilding it just stops you from losing hard. It won't stop losing teams from dealing away pending FA's but it might stop them from resting all of their competitive players for the month of March.

It is also better for the losing teams. Feature your young guys let them have that Linsanity moment maybe even sell some tickets
because people will want to watch rookies and young guys who are trying to win but if your resting those guys or playing not to win nobody wants to watch that garbage.

I get tanking for 1:4 odds but who the hell is going to lose on purpose to get a 14% of winning? Is there even a ratio for that?

[Froob]

Absolute nonsense. It's real easy what you do - you start getting good at your job. The Celtics highest self-inflicted pick was Marcus Smart at #6. None of this "whoa is me how can I get better - geez I'm stuck here forever with no capabilities to change it." Golden State is laughing all the way to the bank on that ridiculous false philosophy. Where was this mandatory high draft pick, that you need to have by losing, to be a championship team ?
In today's NBA the well-run franchises have to have management that is savvy, has a great understanding of player's value (I think we've all heard of Jae Crowder and IT) know when to hold and let go of players, and have tremendous foresight with the salary cap. So you want to continually reward teams, trying to lose, with high picks like the Sixers, and right in front of your face in Boston none of that was done and the high draft picks they got done by being a good organization, not sitting around waiting to be bailed out. It looks like the disgrace of Philly losing on purpose is panning out for them. May it never happen again. Losing on purpose is NBA's version of steroids - a total black eye on the sport. What's really horrendous is people think it's totally acceptable

How many teams are actually tanking year in year out? Orlando hasn't, they signed Biyombo and traded for Ibaka. Phoenix hasn't, they signed Tyson Chandler and almost Aldridge and tried to trade for Kyrie and allegedly Love. Brooklyn sure as hell hasn't. The Lakers paid up big for Mozgov and Deng.

Everyone is saying this is a major issue but who are these teams that are doing this? And the league basically put the cabosh on what Philly did. Philly is basically the only one who did it. A draft wheel would be a massive overreaction and mistake.

The NBA's parity problems lies in the max contracts, getting a LeBron, Steph, or a KD at the max is the biggest bargain you can get from a value/production stand point.

While PHI took it to a ridiculous level, multiple teams every year will intentionally tank. Most teams don't make it their organizational philosophy it is just something you resort to in Jan or Feb when hope is kind of lost. Last year LAL, PHO, and ORL were intentionally losing games based roster and line up management. I think the Lakers actually got concerned the league would come down on them near the end of the year.

The changes proposed will not stop teams from rebuilding it just stops you from losing hard. It won't stop losing teams from dealing away pending FA's but it might stop them from resting all of their competitive players for the month of March.

It is also better for the losing teams. Feature your young guys let them have that Linsanity moment maybe even sell some tickets
because people will want to watch rookies and young guys who are trying to win but if your resting those guys or playing not to win nobody wants to watch that garbage.

I get tanking for 1:4 odds but who the hell is going to lose on purpose to get a 14% of winning? Is there even a ratio for that?

I think unofficial rule is best, like what they did to Philly. Leave the odds and rules as is but put the cabosh on doing what the Suns did with Bledsoe and Chandler behind the scenes. Tanking isn't nearly the issue it's made out to be, but it's not a good look what the Suns did.

[sully00]

How many teams are actually tanking year in year out? Orlando hasn't, they signed Biyombo and traded for Ibaka. Phoenix hasn't, they signed Tyson Chandler and almost Aldridge and tried to trade for Kyrie and allegedly Love. Brooklyn sure as hell hasn't. The Lakers paid up big for Mozgov and Deng.

Everyone is saying this is a major issue but who are these teams that are doing this? And the league basically put the cabosh on what Philly did. Philly is basically the only one who did it. A draft wheel would be a massive overreaction and mistake.

The NBA's parity problems lies in the max contracts, getting a LeBron, Steph, or a KD at the max is the biggest bargain you can get from a value/production stand point.

While PHI took it to a ridiculous level, multiple teams every year will intentionally tank. Most teams don't make it their organizational philosophy it is just something you resort to in Jan or Feb when hope is kind of lost. Last year LAL, PHO, and ORL were intentionally losing games based roster and line up management. I think the Lakers actually got concerned the league would come down on them near the end of the year.

The changes proposed will not stop teams from rebuilding it just stops you from losing hard. It won't stop losing teams from dealing away pending FA's but it might stop them from resting all of their competitive players for the month of March.

It is also better for the losing teams. Feature your young guys let them have that Linsanity moment maybe even sell some tickets
because people will want to watch rookies and young guys who are trying to win but if your resting those guys or playing not to win nobody wants to watch that garbage.

I get tanking for 1:4 odds but who the hell is going to lose on purpose to get a 14% of winning? Is there even a ratio for that?

I think unofficial rule is best, like what they did to Philly. Leave the odds and rules as is but put the cabosh on doing what the Suns did with Bledsoe and Chandler behind the scenes. Tanking isn't nearly the issue it's made out to be, but it's not a good look what the Suns did.

Sure it does it impacts the teams competing for playoff spots and home court advantage. If I get tanking teams on the calendar in March vs playing them in December I have a competitive advantage. While things happen they tend to be by chance this isn't by chance it is intentional. This will remove some of the intentional.

[Slartibartfast]

Initial reaction: Cavs got a killing for Kyrie

IT will miss time: Ok, this is a little fairer.

Brooklyn finishes with the worst record and Cavs get the 12th pick: Ainge might be God.

I think they should do a live broadcast. 14 balls, and let the order fall where it may.

Last thing you need is 8th seed candidates tanking during the last week of the regular season.

True, but if we'd done that in 14/15, we'd be making Myles Turner untouchable in trades instead of Terry Rozier.

[Homerclease]

I think they should do a live broadcast. 14 balls, and let the order fall where it may.

Last thing you need is 8th seed candidates tanking during the last week of the regular season.

True, but if we'd done that in 14/15, we'd be making Myles Turner untouchable in trades instead of Terry Rozier.

Wrong, we'd have Justice Winslow and probably have passed on Jaylen for Dunn or Bender

[Slartibartfast]

Last thing you need is 8th seed candidates tanking during the last week of the regular season.

True, but if we'd done that in 14/15, we'd be making Myles Turner untouchable in trades instead of Terry Rozier.

Wrong, we'd have Justice Winslow and probably have passed on Jaylen for Dunn or Bender

That's a pretty big leap - and Winslow's also a better prospect than Rozier by the way. Not like Jaylen's presence made us pass on Tatum either.

[Homerclease]

True, but if we'd done that in 14/15, we'd be making Myles Turner untouchable in trades instead of Terry Rozier.

Wrong, we'd have Justice Winslow and probably have passed on Jaylen for Dunn or Bender

That's a pretty big leap - and Winslow's also a better prospect than Rozier by the way. Not like Jaylen's presence made us pass on Tatum either.

What makes Winslow a better prospect than Rozier exactly? He's been injury riddled and made absolutely no strides offensively.

[Captain_Caveman]

Last thing you need is 8th seed candidates tanking during the last week of the regular season.

True, but if we'd done that in 14/15, we'd be making Myles Turner untouchable in trades instead of Terry Rozier.

Wrong, we'd have Justice Winslow and probably have passed on Jaylen for Dunn or Bender

Or we'd have just made a big trade instead, like dealing the #3 for Butler last year.

Kyrie/Smart
Butler
Hayward/Winslow
Tatum
Horford

[Slartibartfast]

Wrong, we'd have Justice Winslow and probably have passed on Jaylen for Dunn or Bender

That's a pretty big leap - and Winslow's also a better prospect than Rozier by the way. Not like Jaylen's presence made us pass on Tatum either.

What makes Winslow a better prospect than Rozier exactly? He's been injury riddled and made absolutely no strides offensively.

Younger, bigger, better defender. Meanwhile Rozier isn't exactly lighting the world on fire.

Rozier could turn out to be the better player, but Winslow is the better prospect for the moment.

[Homerclease]

That's a pretty big leap - and Winslow's also a better prospect than Rozier by the way. Not like Jaylen's presence made us pass on Tatum either.

What makes Winslow a better prospect than Rozier exactly? He's been injury riddled and made absolutely no strides offensively.

Younger, bigger, better defender. Meanwhile Rozier isn't exactly lighting the world on fire.

Rozier could turn out to be the better player, but Winslow is the better prospect for the moment.

Winslow WAS the better prospect, I don't agree with that any more though. Rozier at least shows some ability to be a 2 way player. Winslow is worse than Smart on offense and can't stay healthy.

[Homerclease]

True, but if we'd done that in 14/15, we'd be making Myles Turner untouchable in trades instead of Terry Rozier.

Wrong, we'd have Justice Winslow and probably have passed on Jaylen for Dunn or Bender

Or we'd have just made a big trade instead, like dealing the #3 for Butler last year.

Kyrie/Smart
Butler
Hayward/Winslow
Tatum
Horford

That's not the arguement Slart was making though.

[Captain_Caveman]

Wrong, we'd have Justice Winslow and probably have passed on Jaylen for Dunn or Bender

Or we'd have just made a big trade instead, like dealing the #3 for Butler last year.

Kyrie/Smart
Butler
Hayward/Winslow
Tatum
Horford

That's not the arguement Slart was making though.

He was being facetious, and I was responding to you being serious.

The team I posted is tiiiight.

[Homerclease]

Or we'd have just made a big trade instead, like dealing the #3 for Butler last year.

Kyrie/Smart
Butler
Hayward/Winslow
Tatum
Horford

That's not the arguement Slart was making though.

He was being facetious, and I was responding to you being serious.

The team I posted is tiiiight.

It is and I'm sure Zarren could've made the money work but at the same time we may be better off in a year or two with Jaylen instead. Butler and Kyrie are both due for big extensions at the same time and Brown is many years younger than Butler. I'd argue our window is open longer the way things played out now. I think it hindsight the way it all worked out were more or less splitting hairs as to how we get to where we are today

[Captain_Caveman]

That's not the arguement Slart was making though.

He was being facetious, and I was responding to you being serious.

The team I posted is tiiiight.

It is and I'm sure Zarren could've made the money work but at the same time we may be better off in a year or two with Jaylen instead. Butler and Kyrie are both due for big extensions at the same time and Brown is many years younger than Butler. I'd argue our window is open longer the way things played out now. I think it hindsight the way it all worked out were more or less splitting hairs as to how we get to where we are today

Theoretically speaking, we'd be better off with that roster IMO, provided we wanted to pay the tax for it. With a couple of role playing bigs like Morris, that team would be ready to dance right now.

[Captain_Caveman]

Absolute nonsense. It's real easy what you do - you start getting good at your job. The Celtics highest self-inflicted pick was Marcus Smart at #6. None of this "whoa is me how can I get better - geez I'm stuck here forever with no capabilities to change it." Golden State is laughing all the way to the bank on that ridiculous false philosophy. Where was this mandatory high draft pick, that you need to have by losing, to be a championship team ?
In today's NBA the well-run franchises have to have management that is savvy, has a great understanding of player's value (I think we've all heard of Jae Crowder and IT) know when to hold and let go of players, and have tremendous foresight with the salary cap. So you want to continually reward teams, trying to lose, with high picks like the Sixers, and right in front of your face in Boston none of that was done and the high draft picks they got done by being a good organization, not sitting around waiting to be bailed out. It looks like the disgrace of Philly losing on purpose is panning out for them. May it never happen again. Losing on purpose is NBA's version of steroids - a total black eye on the sport. What's really horrendous is people think it's totally acceptable

How many teams are actually tanking year in year out? Orlando hasn't, they signed Biyombo and traded for Ibaka. Phoenix hasn't, they signed Tyson Chandler and almost Aldridge and tried to trade for Kyrie and allegedly Love. Brooklyn sure as hell hasn't. The Lakers paid up big for Mozgov and Deng.

Everyone is saying this is a major issue but who are these teams that are doing this? And the league basically put the cabosh on what Philly did. Philly is basically the only one who did it. A draft wheel would be a massive overreaction and mistake.

The NBA's parity problems lies in the max contracts, getting a LeBron, Steph, or a KD at the max is the biggest bargain you can get from a value/production stand point.

While PHI took it to a ridiculous level, multiple teams every year will intentionally tank. Most teams don't make it their organizational philosophy it is just something you resort to in Jan or Feb when hope is kind of lost. Last year LAL, PHO, and ORL were intentionally losing games based roster and line up management. I think the Lakers actually got concerned the league would come down on them near the end of the year.

The changes proposed will not stop teams from rebuilding it just stops you from losing hard. It won't stop losing teams from dealing away pending FA's but it might stop them from resting all of their competitive players for the month of March.

It is also better for the losing teams. Feature your young guys let them have that Linsanity moment maybe even sell some tickets
because people will want to watch rookies and young guys who are trying to win but if your resting those guys or playing not to win nobody wants to watch that garbage.

I get tanking for 1:4 odds but who the hell is going to lose on purpose to get a 14% of winning? Is there even a ratio for that?

Won't just be the top pick, though. Lottery would be the top 4 picks, and under this proposal, the cumulative odds of that are pretty good even if you aren't one of the worst teams. As in, maybe 8th worst with a roughly 50% shot at a top 4 pick.

[Froob]

Or we'd have just made a big trade instead, like dealing the #3 for Butler last year.

Kyrie/Smart
Butler
Hayward/Winslow
Tatum
Horford

That's not the arguement Slart was making though.

He was being facetious, and I was responding to you being serious.

The team I posted is tiiiight.

Not beating the Warriors though.

[Captain_Caveman]

That's not the arguement Slart was making though.

He was being facetious, and I was responding to you being serious.

The team I posted is tiiiight.

Not beating the Warriors though.

Butler/Winslow >>> Jaylen/Rozier

Not by a little, by a lot.

[Homerclease]

He was being facetious, and I was responding to you being serious.

The team I posted is tiiiight.

Not beating the Warriors though.

Butler/Winslow >>> Jaylen/Rozier

Not by a little, by a lot.

Not because of Winslow.

[Captain_Caveman]

Not beating the Warriors though.

Butler/Winslow >>> Jaylen/Rozier

Not by a little, by a lot.

Not because of Winslow.

Ehhh... he is 21 and we are pretty good at developing guys. And he's better than either Jaylen or Rozier. But point being, it would have given us an extra top-tier trade asset.