All Things Luka Doncic

[SlowPaced]

Don't care how much he scored. I care how he scored. And a bunch of step back 3s because he can't get by subpar athletes and a ton of ticky tack fouls did not answer the questions I have about his game.

What about when he went right at the rim and had a layup despite Porzingis being there to protect the rim?

[Rn5ho]

Don't care how much he scored. I care how he scored. And a bunch of step back 3s because he can't get by subpar athletes and a ton of ticky tack fouls did not answer the questions I have about his game.

What about when he went right at the rim and had a layup despite Porzingis being there to protect the rim?

Just like the "KP is not a good rebounder" for rebounds, they'd probably come up with "KP had 4 fouls" or "KP is not a great defender" or something. Everything can be excused if they try hard enough, but admitting that 18 yo is doing amazing things is too much. 27 points and clutch 3pointers mean nothing, becasue it's not vs College kids.

[Goon]

Haha he only has a step back 3 in the half court? So apparently forcing fouls isn't a skill? Spot up 3 pointers aren't a skill? Craftiness around the rim which he showed vs Porzingis isn't a skill? Ability to read and react to what the defense gives you isn't a skill? Man you read the craziest **** on this forum sometimes.

[Bob8]

http://www.eurohoops.net/en/eurobasket/514045/doncic-best-ever-eurobasket-performance-18-year-old/

[reanimator]

Don't care how much he scored. I care how he scored. And a bunch of step back 3s because he can't get by subpar athletes and a ton of ticky tack fouls did not answer the questions I have about his game.

What about when he went right at the rim and had a layup despite Porzingis being there to protect the rim?

The floater was nice but one instance does not prove its something replicable on a consistent basis. I've seen a couple of folks point to that one play but if everyone is pointing to that one play then it shows its an exception not something he does often.

You don't need a quick first step anymore. So much NBA offense is created in transition, through early offense, or off the pick and roll.

Yeah, if you have elite handles and elite pull up games like Harden (who is strong as a bull) and Curry (who has elite change of direction as well) then you can obviously compensate for lack of burst. I don't ever see Doncic approaching that type of skill.

[Mirotic12]

Great game. Imagine the HYPE if he puts up a similar game vs. Spain ...

Doncic is showing us that it was really probably fatigue that played a part in his Final 4 struggles. Real played an NBA-team-like schedule so he simply hit the point that's called a "rookie wall" in the NBA. I'm not saying that was definitely the main reason, but it surely played a part. Sure he has a bigger role now, but he looks completely different, just a couple months later ...

Maybe, but let's please stop pretending that this EuroBasket is anything near EuroLeague level. I'm sorry, but any of the final four teams from EuroLeague would annihilate Slovenian NT.

Doncic is playing great, but constantly talking about EuroBasket / EuroLeague as the same thing is way off base. It's just as off base these days as when NBA fans try to claim EuroBasket / World Cup / Olympics is same thing as EuroLeague.

It just isn't. Most of the best EuroCup (2nd level European league) teams would probably medal at this tournament. Same with even the best teams from Champions League. Just looking at rosters of even best Champions League teams - every bit as good as Slovenia for example.

So yeah, maybe it's because Doncic was tired. It's much more likely (by a lot), because he was tired and the competition was way higher.

[XTraderXL]

Great game. Imagine the HYPE if he puts up a similar game vs. Spain ...

Doncic is showing us that it was really probably fatigue that played a part in his Final 4 struggles. Real played an NBA-team-like schedule so he simply hit the point that's called a "rookie wall" in the NBA. I'm not saying that was definitely the main reason, but it surely played a part. Sure he has a bigger role now, but he looks completely different, just a couple months later ...

Maybe, but let's please stop pretending that this EuroBasket is anything near EuroLeague level. I'm sorry, but any of the final four teams from EuroLeague would annihilate Slovenian NT.

Doncic is playing great, but constantly talking about EuroBasket / EuroLeague as the same thing is way off base. It's just as off base these days as when NBA fans try to claim EuroBasket / World Cup / Olympics is same thing as EuroLeague.

It just isn't. Most of the best EuroCup (2nd level European league) teams would probably medal at this tournament. Same with even the best teams from Champions League. Just looking at rosters of even best Champions League teams - every bit as good as Slovenia for example.

So yeah, maybe it's because Doncic was tired. It's much more likely (by a lot), because he was tired and the competition was way higher.

Are you serious? Most EuroCup teams would medal in this Eurobasket? HAHA They would get destroyed by most top 8 teams in the EB.
You think Slovenian NT is not better than Crvena Zvezda was last year? Slovenia is much better than they were last season and they would be at least in the PO. So would be Spain, Latvia, Srbija.... I agree with the F4 teams and even that is not a given. The games would be pretty close, at least with the top 4 EB teams.
Mate, you were completely wrong about Dragic and how he cant play under FIBA rules. He is clearly the best PG in the tournament and its not even that close. Basically all NBA players (or soon to be) are dominating and it wasnt really that hard to predict. So when you say these things its hard to take you seriously as you are too biased.

As far as for Doncic, he played an ok game, I am glad he is making his free throws consistently and that he is more aggressive on offense. I expect him to play similarly in Real this year and posting good numbers. Last season statistically he was their top 4 player, this season he will be their most productive player with no Llull on the team. He is just that good.

[Kolkmania]

Don't care how much he scored. I care how he scored. And a bunch of step back 3s because he can't get by subpar athletes and a ton of ticky tack fouls did not answer the questions I have about his game.

What about when he went right at the rim and had a layup despite Porzingis being there to protect the rim?

The floater was nice but one instance does not prove its something replicable on a consistent basis. I've seen a couple of folks point to that one play but if everyone is pointing to that one play then it shows its an exception not something he does often.

You don't need a quick first step anymore. So much NBA offense is created in transition, through early offense, or off the pick and roll.

Yeah, if you have elite handles and elite pull up games like Harden (who is strong as a bull) and Curry (who has elite change of direction as well) then you can obviously compensate for lack of burst. I don't ever see Doncic approaching that type of skill.

He had a ISO drive against Porzingis as well in the 4th finishing with a right handed layup. I do agree with you to a certain extent, he has some ways to go with his driving game and be more confident in it.

It's just really hard to project Doncic, his P&R play is sooooo impressive and he's just 18 years old and combine that with being 6'8 makes it even more valuable. His first step is meh, but there are other ways to compensate for that as you pointed out.

He doesn't have Harden's strength and ability to draw fouls or Curry's shooting off the dribble and quickness to change direction at the moment and probably never will to that extent, but he's 18. I don't like how much he bulked his upper body in such short time, perhaps with a training regime with different emphases he could improve his quickness and lower body strength/explosiveness.

Also, he does some flashes of being able to change directions and pace with the ball. It's not Curry-esque, but he's also 5 inches bigger than him.

Read on Twitter

This play is the most impressive one this tourney imo, starting off with a P&R, stepping back to keep the big on his heels, driving to draw three defenders and then being able to see the entire court and throw the cross-court pass for an open corner three.

Perhaps my biggest concern is his perimeter defense. We'll see how his body evolves, but at the moment he's not strong enough to be a 4, he got abused by Timma and Smits in the post. On the perimeter he gets beaten so easily at times which makes me wonder if he has the reaction time or footspeed to be a plus defender. If he can develop on this aspect and be a Klay Thompson/Joe Ingles type of defender I can see him becoming a top 10 (maybe even top 5) player in the NBA.

[J_T]

Maybe, but let's please stop pretending that this EuroBasket is anything near EuroLeague level. I'm sorry, but any of the final four teams from EuroLeague would annihilate Slovenian NT.

Doncic is playing great, but constantly talking about EuroBasket / EuroLeague as the same thing is way off base. It's just as off base these days as when NBA fans try to claim EuroBasket / World Cup / Olympics is same thing as EuroLeague.

It just isn't. Most of the best EuroCup (2nd level European league) teams would probably medal at this tournament. Same with even the best teams from Champions League. Just looking at rosters of even best Champions League teams - every bit as good as Slovenia for example.

It's interesting to me how convinced you are about your statements. I will admit that I didn't know what exactly would have been odds for the match ups you suggested, even though I do have experience with professional sports betting and I did think you were off. So I asked a colleague, an ex basketball player who has 10+ years of experience handicapping European basketball for living. You know, handicapping - being able to predict what the market will be BEFORE the market appears.

His take is that Real Madrid would be a -5 fav against Slovenia at home, but would be an even match at netral venue.

As for Eurocup, he considers that Unicaja, the Eurocup winner, would be even money with Czech Republic and Ukraine. I didn't want to disgrace myself by asking about Champions League or chances of Eurocup teams to medal.

I don't think it's worth discussing this anymore, professional money is ALWAYS right and statements like this one look more like trolling to me than something backed by a serious thought process.

[Johnny Firpo]

Yeah, if you have elite handles and elite pull up games like Harden (who is strong as a bull) and Curry (who has elite change of direction as well) then you can obviously compensate for lack of burst. I don't ever see Doncic approaching that type of skill.

Doncic has elite handles and playmaking skills for his age, I'm baffled how you refuse to see it. At this point it is probably prideful stubborness on your part.

[Rn5ho]

We could see Doncic doing a couple of pull up jumpers off dribble already this tournament and I have a feeling that this is the segment of game he's working on heavily, but not utilizing it yet as he's not perfected it. But I'm personally expecting (and hoping) to see it more often in next season, when he'll have plenty of opportunities to master it in games that will not be as important as Eurobasket playoffs.

His playmaking and vision is not questionable at all, nor is handling (but this can and will improve with maturity and age).

[DaddyCool19]

If Doncic was from Greece you wouldn't see that one guy posting stuff like this. He would be the second coming of Jesus and Buddha combine if he was from Greece.

[yannisk]

If Doncic was from Greece you wouldn't see that one guy posting stuff like this. He would be the second coming of Jesus and Buddha combine if he was from Greece.

I am not so certain. Antetokounmpo is from Greece and "that one guy" is not very high on him.

If Donsic was from Greece I imagine he would have been a good player but with no chance to become as good as Spanoulis

[blazeyo]

Doncic floor is the highest in this draft.. he can not bust with his basketball IQ and terrific playmaking.

He is also clearly very passionate, competitive and has love for the game, he is also very easy to root for.

[reanimator]

Yeah, if you have elite handles and elite pull up games like Harden (who is strong as a bull) and Curry (who has elite change of direction as well) then you can obviously compensate for lack of burst. I don't ever see Doncic approaching that type of skill.

Doncic has elite handles and playmaking skills for his age, I'm baffled how you refuse to see it. At this point it is probably prideful stubborness on your part.

Wait, who is questioning Doncic's playmaking? As for his handle, its very meat and potatoes which is fine but I'd like him to flash way more counters if he is going to be an ISO guy.

I don't think anyone disagrees that Doncic is a high floor, early lotto guy who is likely to be a good starter but I contest the idea he is some generational franchise building block who should be likened to HOFers. Sorry.

[Rn5ho]

He's playing against fully grown veterans who have complete bodies.. he's not playing in some kids league (where many of kids have 0 intention of ever even going pro). It's easy to make highlight reels of 1v3 drives, rebounds and dunks when you're playing against clearly inferior opposition. Go watch some of Doncic games before he joined the senior team of Real Madrid, he was doing similar things then, absolutely dominating 2-4 year older kids and playing around with them, just like we can see in those highlight where Bagley is toying around with high school recreational kids.

Doncic would be toying around with those college kids, it wouldn't be even close. Some of you actually think that college level is anywhere near Eurobasket. That college is anywhere near to playing against 5-15 year professional veterans. This logic is beyond my understanding it seems..

[guille_4]

I think Doncic is a player any team picking 5th would love to have, in a similar capacity to Josh Jackson. Their floor is a bottom of the league starter at their positions.

Had he been available this year, IMO Boston would have picked him over Jayson Tatum.

[Marcus]

You guys seem to misunderstand the point here.

Doncic is doing good to great things against grown professional men, yes. That's all fine and good. It certainly helps his stock in the draft convos. I think teams will definitely take that into consideration when it comes to scouting and in June when it comes to drafting. But he's still in a big man draft class and size (despite what the rules will have you believe) is still king in the NBA and ESPECIALLY in June when they select kids to play in the NBA. Also take into consideration that as a NBA scout, coach, professional trainer, staff member etc etc I'd be prideful enough in my ability to teach a kid with size and physical gifts how to use them in the NBA.

I don't think anyone is discrediting his skillset or what he's doing at his age, it still comes down to translation, can he do these things against higher level athletes. Whether the skill is there or not on the opposition we're still talking about a higher tier physical makeup and athleticism. We're still talking about closing the gap in skill with being quicker with the adjustment, quicker recovery when beat, higher off the floor to contest, longer arms to bother the handle, better athletes to hedge the picks, and a slew of other things that come down to just movement in general.

DeAndre Ayton, Michael Porter Jr, Mo Bamba, Marvin Bagley, Trevon Duvall, Wendell Carter Jr, Robert Williams, Miles Bridges, regardless of whom they've played against clearly have the answers for most if not all of those questions. So as a staff member of an NBA team, I would be arrogant enough to believe I can develop enough skill in these kids to close the gap between them and Doncic, I could get them physically ready for the league, combine that with God given gifts, and put them miles ahead of Doncic in that respect and I would be compensated for just that purpose.

This whole argument about what Doncic would do against college kids and the which league is better thing is pretty irrelevant IMO. Neither is the NBA, neither plays the NBA game, both have something in common on a lower scale with the NBA that neither has in common with each other so it's a wash to me. Also not sold on "Doncic is playing professionally and they aren't so it matters" when these kids aren't allowed to do so for one, and if they were allotted the opportunity to play professionally as early as 16, there would be a large number of them given NBA or G-League contracts long before their 18 or 19 birthdays. So that's only as standout as it is due to the current rules.

I'm all for Doncic being great in the NBA. I want him to be great. I want as much talent in the league as possible. makes for a very entertaining league as a whole. I would hope that for all the skill and high IQ he has that he could become the next Larry Bird and be legendary without being an elite level athlete. Fact of the matter is though not being an elite level athlete does play a factor against him and in the favor of the other kids who have size advantages over him regardless of the gap in skill and IQ when it comes to drafting.

Question for those that know. Luka's end to end speed would be comparable to which NBAer and what's Luka's wingspan currently? Do we think he's done growing? how long has he been his current height? And these are legit questions for my general knowledge about him as a prospect not to bash or anything like that btw.

[Marcus]

I think Doncic is a player any team picking 5th would love to have, in a similar capacity to Josh Jackson. Their floor is a bottom of the league starter at their positions.

Had he been available this year, IMO Boston would have picked him over Jayson Tatum.

yeah I'm thinking that too. around 5 is safe enough to make you look like a genius if he becomes better than the top 4 while just being a good solid pick if he becomes a role player. 5 doesn't make Luka a number one option like a higher pick might force him into and if he can mesh well like he should be able to do in the league it's an ideal spot for him.

[Mirotic12]

Are you serious? Most EuroCup teams would medal in this Eurobasket? HAHA They would get destroyed by most top 8 teams in the EB.
You think Slovenian NT is not better than Crvena Zvezda was last year? Slovenia is much better than they were last season and they would be at least in the PO. So would be Spain, Latvia, Srbija.... I agree with the F4 teams and even that is not a given. The games would be pretty close, at least with the top 4 EB teams.
Mate, you were completely wrong about Dragic and how he cant play under FIBA rules. He is clearly the best PG in the tournament and its not even that close. Basically all NBA players (or soon to be) are dominating and it wasnt really that hard to predict. So when you say these things its hard to take you seriously as you are too biased.

As far as for Doncic, he played an ok game, I am glad he is making his free throws consistently and that he is more aggressive on offense. I expect him to play similarly in Real this year and posting good numbers. Last season statistically he was their top 4 player, this season he will be their most productive player with no Llull on the team. He is just that good.

Anyone that thinks EuroBasket is as good as EuroLeague, or near it, or that it's better than best teams from EuropCup and Champions League - has never actually seen European club basketball, and that includes the so-called betting expert someone else mentioned. All you do with such posts is prove you never actually watch any European club basketball. No reason to keep arguing about it. It's incredibly obvious.

Doncic is playing great, he really is, but the comments about how this is Europe's top level (EuroBasket) are definitely incorrect. EuroBasket these days is a country mile and then some of a lower level than EuroLeague.

It's not helpful or constructive in the least at all, in fact, it's quite the opposite, to this discussion. Putting things in the proper context, and doing so objectively is what we should be doing here. Yet, many posts do the exact opposite of that.