Political Roundtable Part XV

[Wizardspride]

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Judo moves going-on behind the scenes to thwart the investigation with Nunes playing a critical role doing the dirty work.

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[stilldropin20]

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i get the "one president at a time" argument. But really? the obama (and i voted for obama 3 times, including once as an illinois senator) administration is not only "listening" in on the incoming president months after he was elected and weeks before he takes office is just appalling. Rice had no business "listening" to whatever the incoming administration conversation were having with anyone let alone unmasking it to embarrass the incoming president.

This was pure and simple undermining the incoming regime. and the will of the american people-and i did NOT vote for trump. That said. I am sick and tired of do nothing sit on their hands presidents that get handcuffed the the washington political uling class establishment that wants to do business as usual.

Donald trump ran on a clear and concise plat form and he won. its the will of the people. the outgoing party should bend and bow and exit stage left. The american people deserve a chance to see their platform implemented.

There are enough "watchdog" systems and checks in and balances in place to protect the american people from an actual "rogue" president. The outgoing president and his team should not be one of those watchdogs nor checks and balances-at least not in a way where any of the DOJ, FBI, CIA are implemented to destroy the credibilty of th eincoming regime before they get a chance to implement their campaign policy pledges to the american people. For better or worse Donald trump won the election perhaps more fair and squarely that any other past president. He deserves a chance to govern and that includes the opportunity to reset any relationship with any foreign country. Obama and Hillary had quite a russian reset of their own. why cant Trump attempt his own reset with Putin? or the Crown Prince that Susan Rice was supposedly tracking when she surveilled president elect Trump? And worse unmasked him and his aides?

this whole thing reeks of a military state. it reeks of the beginning to the end of modern democracy where we at least had an illusion of freedom, of chocice. I'm not naive. I've always known that the elite wealthy ruling class determine policy via funding. and democracy was an illusion for the proletariat. nothing more than a way for Kings, Queens, Chiefs, Dictators, Oligarchs, etc. to shield themselves while maintaining control without the weight of actually wearing the crown. About 200-300 years ago rulers began to understand that wearing the actual crown made them targets and by removing the crown they could still maintain control yet remove the risks. they didn't have long life expectancies back then or prior. Neither their children. So they slowly implemented world wide local Government systems and nation states to protect their wealth, even democracies/republics where people "voted" for leadership. Then created the league of nations, now the UN. Installed a worldwide central banking system for funding all built on a house of cards and fractional reserve lending. But it keeps them funded nonetheless. And they are the real rulers. And they need politicians to PLAY BALL WITH THEM. "Rogue" presidents major political players like Jackson, Lincoln, Kennedy, Wallace, and Now Trump have all been assassinated or attempted to be assassinated. The far left and political ruling class is doing everything they can to politically assassinate Trump. And began in earnest In october 2016 with the BS lockeroom talk access hollywood tapes. But at least Trump said those things. I mean Trump is aworld class troll/borderline fool so he made it easy. Still, It didn't work. Now they are trying anything and everything. Including this rediculous Independant counsel BS. The entire reason for this "investigation is to control him. the existing political ruling class is attempting to control him. get dirt on him and make him "play ball."

thats all thats happening here.

i dont agree with some of trumps policies for sure. And he often put his foot in his mouth early on. He's clumsy for sure. But gosh darn it!! the people voted for him!! His policies deserve a chance.

I dont like business as usual in US governement. Banking tyrants keep hoarding wealth and are doing so under the guise of corporate growth (which bankers mostly own and control via investment banking). The elite wealthy ruling class should not keep getting richer at the expense of the poor and the middle class. I think thats wrong. So does trump, or so he says and so he campaigned.

Imo, Trump planned to turned Washington DC upside down. and they cut off his knees before he even took office. He said things like "why didn't we keep the oil? And he's right? If american tax dollars and lives (im former navy) safe-keep an area of conflict why are we not properly compensated? What we can only be a certain kind of bad guy? the bad guy that blows up the bank but not the bad guy that loot the safe? makes no sense unless we are secretly protecting foreign wealth? And if so? why get involved? Come on people wake up. Its clear we are the current police to the world and our politicians are paid off (one way or another) to use our military strength to serve that purpose. All on the back of the american tax payer and with american lives.

if you have listed between the lines. trump wants to change that. Clearly, Trump is a Nationalist. trump has his own billions. He isn't easily bought off. European bankers/now international bankers and American bankers run ****. they do. Via their central banking cartel. They fund both sides of every conflict and almost every single conflict resulted in more wealth and control for the elite international bankers. trump has filed for bankruptcy multple times. Including once for over $1B. I dont think he is a "friend" per se of the international bankers.

i dont know, guys. Sorry for rant. but we fret and fray over all this nonsense that doesn't move the needle without ever looking at the big picture. and thats exactly what "they" want us to do. They dont even have to conflate and confuse us anymore. we do it to ourselves. Comey, flynnn, trump Jr., Ivanka, Flotus' heels, on and on. I mean look at Hillary. Still on effing TV talking about this!!?? All to distract and confuse. The goal is to make us dumb. make us frustrated. to hopefully make us stop paying attention.

In the end, know this: if you want a globalism, then you favor the international bankers agenda. Thats what they want because they want more control to protect their international wealth. If you favor nationalism and the american worker and the lower and middle class, then you actually favor the Trump agenda. i came to terms with that. He won. I congratulated him, shook his proverbial hand and wish him and his voters well as they play their next game (against the international banking cartel).

[FAH1223]

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RT is such a small outlet. I can't believe people think they and Sputnik are substantially influencing things here or in Europe.

The NYT article is pretty good though. RT America has an interesting mix of people on the progressive left, the Libertarian right, and some sprinkled in between for their political shows and panels. It's a good alternative IMO... they do cover stories the mainstream ain't touching.

[DCZards]

i get the "one president at a time" argument. But really? the obama (and i voted for obama 3 times, including once as an illinois senator) administration is not only "listening" in on the incoming president months after he was elected and weeks before he takes office is just appalling. Rice had no business "listening" to whatever the incoming administration conversation were having with anyone let alone unmasking it to embarrass the incoming president.

This was pure and simple undermining the incoming regime. and the will of the american people-and i did NOT vote for trump. That said. I am sick and tired of do nothing sit on their hands presidents that get handcuffed the the washington political uling class establishment that wants to do business as usual.

Donald trump ran on a clear and concise plat form and he won. its the will of the people. the outgoing party should bend and bow and exit stage left. The american people deserve a chance to see their platform implemented.

i dont agree with some of trumps policies for sure. And he often put his foot in his mouth early on. He's clumsy for sure. But gosh darn it!! the people voted for him!! His policies deserve a chance.

More Americans voted for Hillary Clinton than for Trump. So if you're genuinely concerned about "the will" of the American people prevailing you must certainly believe that Clinton should be in the White House and not Trump. Yes, Trump won the election but you can’t say his election was the “will of the people" when the other candidate got almost 3 million more votes.

[FAH1223]

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[Wizardspride]

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[dckingsfan]

i get the "one president at a time" argument. But really? the obama (and i voted for obama 3 times, including once as an illinois senator) administration is not only "listening" in on the incoming president months after he was elected and weeks before he takes office is just appalling. Rice had no business "listening" to whatever the incoming administration conversation were having with anyone let alone unmasking it to embarrass the incoming president.

This was pure and simple undermining the incoming regime. and the will of the american people-and i did NOT vote for trump. That said. I am sick and tired of do nothing sit on their hands presidents that get handcuffed the the washington political uling class establishment that wants to do business as usual.

Donald trump ran on a clear and concise plat form and he won. its the will of the people. the outgoing party should bend and bow and exit stage left. The american people deserve a chance to see their platform implemented.

There are enough "watchdog" systems and checks in and balances in place to protect the american people from an actual "rogue" president. The outgoing president and his team should not be one of those watchdogs nor checks and balances-at least not in a way where any of the DOJ, FBI, CIA are implemented to destroy the credibilty of th eincoming regime before they get a chance to implement their campaign policy pledges to the american people. For better or worse Donald trump won the election perhaps more fair and squarely that any other past president. He deserves a chance to govern and that includes the opportunity to reset any relationship with any foreign country. Obama and Hillary had quite a russian reset of their own. why cant Trump attempt his own reset with Putin? or the Crown Prince that Susan Rice was supposedly tracking when she surveilled president elect Trump? And worse unmasked him and his aides?

this whole thing reeks of a military state. it reeks of the beginning to the end of modern democracy where we at least had an illusion of freedom, of chocice. I'm not naive. I've always known that the elite wealthy ruling class determine policy via funding. and democracy was an illusion for the proletariat. nothing more than a way for Kings, Queens, Chiefs, Dictators, Oligarchs, etc. to shield themselves while maintaining control without the weight of actually wearing the crown. About 200-300 years ago rulers began to understand that wearing the actual crown made them targets and by removing the crown they could still maintain control yet remove the risks. they didn't have long life expectancies back then or prior. Neither their children. So they slowly implemented world wide local Government systems and nation states to protect their wealth, even democracies/republics where people "voted" for leadership. Then created the league of nations, now the UN. Installed a worldwide central banking system for funding all built on a house of cards and fractional reserve lending. But it keeps them funded nonetheless. And they are the real rulers. And they need politicians to PLAY BALL WITH THEM. "Rogue" presidents major political players like Jackson, Lincoln, Kennedy, Wallace, and Now Trump have all been assassinated or attempted to be assassinated. The far left and political ruling class is doing everything they can to politically assassinate Trump. And began in earnest In october 2016 with the BS lockeroom talk access hollywood tapes. But at least Trump said those things. I mean Trump is aworld class troll/borderline fool so he made it easy. Still, It didn't work. Now they are trying anything and everything. Including this rediculous Independant counsel BS. The entire reason for this "investigation is to control him. the existing political ruling class is attempting to control him. get dirt on him and make him "play ball."

thats all thats happening here.

i dont agree with some of trumps policies for sure. And he often put his foot in his mouth early on. He's clumsy for sure. But gosh darn it!! the people voted for him!! His policies deserve a chance.

I dont like business as usual in US governement. Banking tyrants keep hoarding wealth and are doing so under the guise of corporate growth (which bankers mostly own and control via investment banking). The elite wealthy ruling class should not keep getting richer at the expense of the poor and the middle class. I think thats wrong. So does trump, or so he says and so he campaigned.

Imo, Trump planned to turned Washington DC upside down. and they cut off his knees before he even took office. He said things like "why didn't we keep the oil? And he's right? If american tax dollars and lives (im former navy) safe-keep an area of conflict why are we not properly compensated? What we can only be a certain kind of bad guy? the bad guy that blows up the bank but not the bad guy that loot the safe? makes no sense unless we are secretly protecting foreign wealth? And if so? why get involved? Come on people wake up. Its clear we are the current police to the world and our politicians are paid off (one way or another) to use our military strength to serve that purpose. All on the back of the american tax payer and with american lives.

if you have listed between the lines. trump wants to change that. Clearly, Trump is a Nationalist. trump has his own billions. He isn't easily bought off. European bankers/now international bankers and American bankers run ****. they do. Via their central banking cartel. They fund both sides of every conflict and almost every single conflict resulted in more wealth and control for the elite international bankers. trump has filed for bankruptcy multple times. Including once for over $1B. I dont think he is a "friend" per se of the international bankers.

i dont know, guys. Sorry for rant. but we fret and fray over all this nonsense that doesn't move the needle without ever looking at the big picture. and thats exactly what "they" want us to do. They dont even have to conflate and confuse us anymore. we do it to ourselves. Comey, flynnn, trump Jr., Ivanka, Flotus' heels, on and on. I mean look at Hillary. Still on effing TV talking about this!!?? All to distract and confuse. The goal is to make us dumb. make us frustrated. to hopefully make us stop paying attention.

In the end, know this: if you want a globalism, then you favor the international bankers agenda. Thats what they want because they want more control to protect their international wealth. If you favor nationalism and the american worker and the lower and middle class, then you actually favor the Trump agenda. i came to terms with that. He won. I congratulated him, shook his proverbial hand and wish him and his voters well as they play their next game (against the international banking cartel).

Okay - so this is the best post that describes how Trump supporters feel (even though you aren't a Trump supporter) thus far on this board.

It describes why voters are no longer connecting with either party.

BTW, I guess you have seen this firsthand with the Illinois legislature and the Illinois governor.

[dckingsfan]

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-single-payer-siren-song-1505256839

[gtn130]

Okay - so this is the best post that describes how Trump supporters feel (even though you aren't a Trump supporter) thus far on this board.

It describes why voters are no longer connecting with either party.

BTW, I guess you have seen this firsthand with the Illinois legislature and the Illinois governor.

That post was wildly misinformed and conspiratorial. What exactly should our takeaway be? How should we modify our behavior to appropriately account for that?

Not all opinions are inherently good - especially wrong ones. Those opinions are actually bad.

[stilldropin20]

i get the "one president at a time" argument. But really? the obama (and i voted for obama 3 times, including once as an illinois senator) administration is not only "listening" in on the incoming president months after he was elected and weeks before he takes office is just appalling. Rice had no business "listening" to whatever the incoming administration conversation were having with anyone let alone unmasking it to embarrass the incoming president.

This was pure and simple undermining the incoming regime. and the will of the american people-and i did NOT vote for trump. That said. I am sick and tired of do nothing sit on their hands presidents that get handcuffed the the washington political uling class establishment that wants to do business as usual.

Donald trump ran on a clear and concise plat form and he won. its the will of the people. the outgoing party should bend and bow and exit stage left. The american people deserve a chance to see their platform implemented.

i dont agree with some of trumps policies for sure. And he often put his foot in his mouth early on. He's clumsy for sure. But gosh darn it!! the people voted for him!! His policies deserve a chance.

More Americans voted for Hillary Clinton than for Trump. So if you're genuinely concerned about "the will" of the American people prevailing you must certainly believe that Clinton should be in the White House and not Trump. Yes, Trump won the election but you can’t say his election was the “will of the people" when the other candidate got almost 3 million more votes.

this is part of the disconnect. Both parties know the issues. know "the people." and know "their" people. focus groups determine campaign pledges and by design each party selects issues and makes pledges based on retaining(energizing) their own base and attaining the middle swing voters that need to be enregized to vote. In any given year a presidential election is decided by 1-15% of the total votes. Gore/Bush and trump/Clinton were both in the 2% total vote range difference. yet various states could swing as much as 90-10% Built into that is going to be major disappointment in some states. This is where and why america is divided. I was extremely upset when Gore lost to Bush by a few hanging chads. Thats said Gore had issues (as did Bush). and Hillary recently was a really bad candidate-so i wasn't too disappointed when she lost-in fact. I was far more upset with how the Clinton political machine and DNC rail-roaded Bernie in the primaries- no matter how naive Sander's agenda and pledges were. He represented real change-or at least possibly the beginning of it. Trump does too. And under the current rules. Trump won. he wants to begin to change some things. and some of them radically. he is learning on the fly how to "ease" the message. And sometimes the message is harsh. Look guys, being president is a dirty muthafunkin job. Dirty as hell. Obama ordered around 2500 drone strikes with a death toll around 8-15K. many children died. It's a dirty effin job, man. But many would say a necessary evil. I dont wish those decisions on anyone. The real problems we face is the will and betterment of the american people being properly served in these drone strikes? Does it make american safer? Economically better off? The world a better place? The US goverment has been doing the "dirty work" and serving masters abroad since its inception. But are things done for the better of the american people? That's a far more important issue, I think.

And here at "home" there is unfortunate dirty work to be done as well to protect national and local economies, provide jobs, growth, education, equal and fair opportunity for every single american.

Perhaps part of the divide amongst american is that the Federal Government has too much control locally. Clearly Folks in Montana dont have the same political interests as folks in chicago or Virginia. Redrawing state lines with City States and giving more power to states would likely help unite americans and help them respect each others differences. Because americans united is what is needed Radical change to occur.


We are more and more becoming a nation and world of have and have nots. its scary. Higher education is becoming ridiculously expensive as is healthcare. And thats coming from a Dentist/oral surgeon. Healthcare is 1/5th of the entire US economy!!?? It's plain silly that american's are tricked into spending that much on health care as well as the fact that americans are in fact that "unhealthy." See that's a real issue!! thats something worth a 100 page thread. Not whether or not Trump was building a hotel in russia. Trump is a billionaire. He buys and sells real estate. Thats what he does. of course he was buying and selling something, somewhere. thats not an issue. Not a real one. Not worth dividing the country over. I'm former Navy. We had a saying. I may not respect the person but i respect the uniform. Call it silly but I respect the office of the president. I want a president that puts americans first. So as silly, and clumsy as the trump regime has been I want to give him a chance to implement the change he campaigned on. However small the change and however I disagree with it. It is the will of the people per the current set of voting rules and maybe the american people know more than me? I disagree with some of trump's agenda. But at least he is attempting to change some things. Try some new things. Maybe they will work? More of the same and politics as usual was NOT working.

[Wizardspride]

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[cammac]

Again I'm a Canadian and many agree with my comments while other disagree. As I have indicated before I currently support no political party in Canada but in the past was a member of the Progressive Conservative Party which is now defunct. I indicated I'm a fiscal conservative but extremely liberal on social issues.

As the fiscal conservative I look at the 2 major current issues single payer health insurance and DACA.

Single payer health insurance is a fiscally conservative issue in that everyone is covered and that the general populace pays for the program through there working life. Both employees and employers contribute to paying for healthcare, plus with some other tax increases to fund the program. The reality is 10+ % of American people are not covered by health insurance but can go to the emergency room of a hospital and be treated. This is the most expensive and least cost effective way of doing healthcare and doesn't help people in the prevention of disease. In certain sectors a government run system is fiscally responsible and the private sector has been a abject failure in giving healthcare to all. In Canada each Province runs its own healthcare system but operates under Federal Government Guidelines and have not Provinces receive Federal Government transfer payments. So the West Virginia Government would receive money from California, Texas, Virginia and others to fund the system. Obvious the ability of governments to buy pharmaceuticals in bulk and negotiate directly with those companies drastically reduces the costs. Obviously some ridiculous awards for malpractice and excessive awards against drug companies would help reduce costs.

DACA the USA has invested large amounts of money in helping the Dreamers to become productive individuals in society. The average age of Dreamers when they entered the USA was 6 years old adults who are Dreamers have mostly 12 years of primary and secondary education and in many cases post secondary education. I huge investment has already been spent so it would be a travesty lose this investment for nothing. It is much better to give DACA recipients a way to citizenship and become valued contributors to society. Yes I would not give amnesty to DACA recipients that have a serious criminal past.

[Wizardspride]

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