Markelle Fultz Discussion

[TTP]

I don't dispute that. I dispute the evaluation of him
.
If I remember correctly didn't Zach Lavine, Dario Saric, and Randle get picked after him? Pick one all three are better now and have more room to grow.

Zach Lavine is the opposite of Smart but with an ACL tear
Randle is not better than Smart. Smart has 1 elite skill
Dario Saric I will give you but he was not in the 6 range at the time of the draft

Marcus Smart is a superior basketball player to all three of those guys. I never thought I'd say this: But where is kobblehead when you need him?

Yeah I agree. I take Smart over all three of those guys as well.

[TTP]

Zach Lavine is the opposite of Smart but with an ACL tear
Randle is not better than Smart. Smart has 1 elite skill
Dario Saric I will give you but he was not in the 6 range at the time of the draft

Smart is better than Saric. I'd trade Saric straight up for Smart right now. Ainge wouldn't do it straight up though. We'd have to add more to it. And I like Saric. I like Smart better. Every team needs a Marcus Smart on it.

Really? Some PHI fans told me Saric was better than brown

He probably is. Smart is better than Brown too.

[Sixerscan]

In what world was Brown better than Saric last year?

The last time the Celtics and Sixers played Dario out scored him like 25-2 in a winning effort.

I don't think this is particularly controversial. Brown didn't make the rising stars game or the first all rookie team. Finished behind him in ROY vote etc etc etc

Like if you want to say he has potential fine but he was not good last year.

[Unbreakable99]

In what world was Brown better than Saric last year?

The last time the Celtics and Sixers played Dario out scored him like 25-2 in a winning effort.

I don't think this is particularly controversial. Brown didn't make the rising stars game or the first all rookie team. Finished behind him in ROY vote etc etc etc

Like if you want to say he has potential fine but he was not good last year.

I think Saric had a better season than Brown last year but I think Brown has a higher ceiling. He's also younger. If I had to bet on who would be better 7 years from now I'd take Brown.

[CoreyGallagher]

https://www.reddit.com/r/sixers/comments/705f7f/fultz_with_the_windmill_hammer/?ref=share&ref_source=link

Gets up on this dunk.

[Sixerscan]

In what world was Brown better than Saric last year?

The last time the Celtics and Sixers played Dario out scored him like 25-2 in a winning effort.

I don't think this is particularly controversial. Brown didn't make the rising stars game or the first all rookie team. Finished behind him in ROY vote etc etc etc

Like if you want to say he has potential fine but he was not good last year.

I think Saric had a better season than Brown last year but I think Brown has a higher ceiling. He's also younger. If I had to bet on who would be better 7 years from now I'd take Brown.

Totally fair, we're using the present tense though.

[Ericb5]

In what world was Brown better than Saric last year?

The last time the Celtics and Sixers played Dario out scored him like 25-2 in a winning effort.

I don't think this is particularly controversial. Brown didn't make the rising stars game or the first all rookie team. Finished behind him in ROY vote etc etc etc

Like if you want to say he has potential fine but he was not good last year.

I think Saric had a better season than Brown last year but I think Brown has a higher ceiling. He's also younger. If I had to bet on who would be better 7 years from now I'd take Brown.

Totally fair, we're using the present tense though.

I think that Brown has a comparable ceiling to Saric, and let's not forget that Brown was overdrafted in a bad draft at 3 and Saric was underdrafted in a good draft at 12 simply because he was not coming over for 2 years.

He probably would have gone 8th otherwise, and Brown probably would have gone 8th in that draft as well.

I think that Smart is a better prospect than Brown.

If Brown has any advantage it is his age.



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[76ciology]

Saric seemed to get it late in the season. That version is probably Jaylen's upside if he also gets it. Nevertheless, both are projected to be role players while Saric is a safer bet.

[Chris76]

Saric seemed to get it late in the season. That version is probably Jaylen's upside if he also gets it. Nevertheless, both are projected to be role players while Saric is a safer bet.

Saric seems to fit well with other players. His vision and passing for a mobile big man is very underrated.
He keeps the ball moving and gives his teammates good assists.

His shooting mechanics look good. Many people say he is a poor shooter. He may have taken too many contested shots, which may have lowered his #s. Possibly, he can play the 4, 3, and maybe small ball 5, good versatility.

Brown is very athletic and should be a good defender. He has struggled to be a playmaker.
He should be a good combo with Kyrie being the playmaker.

[spikeslovechild]

Zach Lavine is the opposite of Smart but with an ACL tear
Randle is not better than Smart. Smart has 1 elite skill
Dario Saric I will give you but he was not in the 6 range at the time of the draft

Marcus Smart is a superior basketball player to all three of those guys. I never thought I'd say this: But where is kobblehead when you need him?

Yeah I agree. I take Smart over all three of those guys as well.

You want to make a sig bet that Randle next contract is bigger then Smarts? And I'm not even a huge Randle fan it's just that people overrate Smart so much on this board.

[spikeslovechild]

I'd probably trade Saric for Smart today too. We need a bulldog perimeter defender more than we need a play making bench big.

I think that they are comparable talents though.


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We could probably get Iman for free if we wanted. He's better then Smart on offense (not saying much) and more versatile on defense.

To be clear I don't want either but why would you give up an asset for Smart?

Because Smart is a good player. He's not the greatest shooter but he's ok. I like him more because of defensive versatility. He can defend PGs SGs and SFs very well. We don't have any good or reliable defensive Gs at this moment. Only Covington is good but he's a wing. Smart would be great for us.

Smart is 6-3. He aint defending SF very well on a consistent basis.

[Unbreakable99]

Marcus Smart is a superior basketball player to all three of those guys. I never thought I'd say this: But where is kobblehead when you need him?

Yeah I agree. I take Smart over all three of those guys as well.

You want to make a sig bet that Randle next contract is bigger then Smarts? And I'm not even a huge Randle fan it's just that people overrate Smart so much on this board.

Randle isn't better than Smart.

[spikeslovechild]

Yeah I agree. I take Smart over all three of those guys as well.

You want to make a sig bet that Randle next contract is bigger then Smarts? And I'm not even a huge Randle fan it's just that people overrate Smart so much on this board.

Randle isn't better than Smart.

You want to take that bet then? Smart could have a Biyombo like playoffs and he aint sniffing a contract close to Randles or Lavine if he comes back healthy or Saric.

Smart is a black hole on offense and in the NBA good offense beats good defense. Allen who I mentioned being an average starter you know he's never made more then 5.5 million ever in his career?

[Unbreakable99]

You want to make a sig bet that Randle next contract is bigger then Smarts? And I'm not even a huge Randle fan it's just that people overrate Smart so much on this board.

Randle isn't better than Smart.

You want to take that bet then? Smart could have a Biyombo like playoffs and he aint sniffing a contract close to Randles or Lavine if he comes back healthy or Saric.

Smart is a black hole on offense and in the NBA good offense beats good defense. Allen who I mentioned being an average starter you know he's never made more then 5.5 million ever in his career?

No I'm not making that bet. The reason is because money doesn't need determine if a player is better than another. There are some dumb GMs out there who give out ridiculous contracts. Look at Noel. He's better than other centers making more money than him. I'm not putting my name on the line for a dumb GM to mess me up. But Smart is better than Randle. That's not even debatable.

[spikeslovechild]

Randle isn't better than Smart.

You want to take that bet then? Smart could have a Biyombo like playoffs and he aint sniffing a contract close to Randles or Lavine if he comes back healthy or Saric.

Smart is a black hole on offense and in the NBA good offense beats good defense. Allen who I mentioned being an average starter you know he's never made more then 5.5 million ever in his career?

No I'm not making that bet. The reason is because money doesn't need determine if a player is better than another. There are some dumb GMs out there who give out ridiculous contracts. Look at Noel. He's better than other centers making more money than him. I'm not putting my name on the line for a dumb GM to mess me up. But Smart is better than Randle. That's not even debatable.

Sure it is Smart can't shoot. Most teams need a significant amount of offense coming from their guards spots because that is where most of the offensive talent is around the league and if you have a PG/SG who can't score that puts you at a disadvantage. It's like having a defensive specialist 1B in baseball.

This isn't just my opinion either his advanced metrics aren't great either. He has a career BPM of 0.4 and a negative BPM last season. His WS/48 is pitiful.

[TTP]

Marcus Smart is a superior basketball player to all three of those guys. I never thought I'd say this: But where is kobblehead when you need him?

Yeah I agree. I take Smart over all three of those guys as well.

You want to make a sig bet that Randle next contract is bigger then Smarts? And I'm not even a huge Randle fan it's just that people overrate Smart so much on this board.

No because I believe the market still underrates defensive impact and overrates empty scoring. All it takes is one dumb team to give Randle a foolish contract and it's pretty likely to happen. I'd bet on Smart's RPM being higher next year though.

[LloydFree]

Yeah I agree. I take Smart over all three of those guys as well.

You want to make a sig bet that Randle next contract is bigger then Smarts? And I'm not even a huge Randle fan it's just that people overrate Smart so much on this board.

[B]No because I believe the market still underrates defensive impact and overrates empty scoring[/bb]. All it takes is one dumb team to give Randle a foolish contract and it's pretty likely to happen. I'd bet on Smart's RPM being higher next year though.

Ryan Anderson is exhibit A. Allan Crabbe exhibit B. And Andrew Wiggins is about to be biggest example of this.

Someone will absolutely pay Julius Randle more money than Marcus Smart next year, because there are a lot of dumb GMs in the league. Ainge knows this, that's why he kept Smart. He knows he can keep him on a reasonable deal.

[TTP]

This isn't just my opinion either his advanced metrics aren't great either. He has a career BPM of 0.4 and a negative BPM last season. His WS/48 is pitiful.

Your argument is poorly supported here and it's one of the many reasons I frequently disagree with you and similarly minded thinkers on these topics.

You're using box score based stats to provide a valuation of a player whose impact largely does not show up in the box score. Defensive players are undervalued by box score based stats like BPM, WS, PER, etc. Likewise, these stats overrate empty box score contributors (usually offensive guys).

Smart is exactly the type of player that is underrated by these numbers and Randle is exactly the type of player that should be overrated. Yet Smart still has better career BPM and WS48 (the categories you chose) than Randle!

[Baller1234a]

We could probably get Iman for free if we wanted. He's better then Smart on offense (not saying much) and more versatile on defense.

To be clear I don't want either but why would you give up an asset for Smart?

Because Smart is a good player. He's not the greatest shooter but he's ok. I like him more because of defensive versatility. He can defend PGs SGs and SFs very well. We don't have any good or reliable defensive Gs at this moment. Only Covington is good but he's a wing. Smart would be great for us.

Smart is 6-3. He aint defending SF very well on a consistent basis.

Except that he guarded millsap (PF) during the PO last year so he can 100% guard bigs BUT he's more valuable (for us) on guards

[Ericb5]

This isn't just my opinion either his advanced metrics aren't great either. He has a career BPM of 0.4 and a negative BPM last season. His WS/48 is pitiful.

Your argument is poorly supported here and it's one of the many reasons I frequently disagree with you and similarly minded thinkers on these topics.

You're using box score based stats to provide a valuation of a player whose impact largely does not show up in the box score. Defensive players are undervalued by box score based stats like BPM, WS, PER, etc. Likewise, these stats overrate empty box score contributors (usually offensive guys).

Smart is exactly the type of player that is underrated by these numbers and Randle is exactly the type of player that should be overrated. Yet Smart still has better career BPM and WS48 (the categories you chose) than Randle!

I like both Randle and Smart. They are both flawed players so they need to be in the right roles, but I think that they can both play big bench roles on contending teams.

Smart is probably the easier fit, and Randle is probably the better talent, but they both are going to be successful in the right role.


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