All Things Luka Doncic

[Marcus]

Today,

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Nice grab and go with the finish.

[XTraderXL]

My source says that Doncic has a mild ankle sprain and its nothing serious. Probably out 10-14 days. He should be ready to start the season but will probably miss the Spanish Supercup tournament this weekend.

[Johnny Firpo]

Wait, who in this thread thinks Doncic is a future bust or bench player?

I think we all unanimously agree that he is at least a starter and lotto pick.

If someone doesn't agree he is the #1 pick or a franchise player then we are somehow down on him as a player.

I know this may shock some but Doncic is my favorite prospect in the 2018 draft even if I don't think he is the best prospect.

It's not that you think that, which makes you wrong, but the fact that you are kind of saying it as an unchangable truth. If everything pans out for Doncic, he is a franchise player. And you are kind of adamant about it that it cannot happen. Don't you agree? While we are saying he could be, you are saying he has no chance. You are talking in absolutes. I guess some do too, from the other side of the argument, but in a Doncic thread that will not be a problem for many.

[Bob8]

Here is Dragic speaking how important Eurobasket was for him and how good Doncic will be a few years in Europe and Nba.

http://www.eurohoops.net/en/eurobasket/517403/dragic-im-still-waiting-nba-ring-something-else/

[Thespianoid]

Wait, who in this thread thinks Doncic is a future bust or bench player?

I think we all unanimously agree that he is at least a starter and lotto pick.

If someone doesn't agree he is the #1 pick or a franchise player then we are somehow down on him as a player.

I know this may shock some but Doncic is my favorite prospect in the 2018 draft even if I don't think he is the best prospect.

It's not that you think that, which makes you wrong, but the fact that you are kind of saying it as an unchangable truth. If everything pans out for Doncic, he is a franchise player. And you are kind of adamant about it that it cannot happen. Don't you agree? While we are saying he could be, you are saying he has no chance. You are talking in absolutes. I guess some do too, from the other side of the argument, but in a Doncic thread that will not be a problem for many.

reanimator's concerns about Doncic are legitimate, and are questions everyone should have.

I think the dissonance and disagreement comes from attitude regarding improvement. Some view improvement as a given, others as a longshot. The fact is, whomever the prospect, wherever their continent of origin, improvement is never a given and simply speculation/projection based on current information.

Of what we know, Doncic has proven the most as the highest level of competition relative to his peers. Domestic prospects like Porter and Bagley have much more to prove at a higher level, but also have higher ceilings given their physical advantages.

We cannot assume that anyone is guaranteed improvement on their skills, physical attributes, basketball IQ, etc. We can only judge based on the current production and sample size.

Neither side is guaranteed to progress past their current point. Porter/Bagley may never improve on their middling IQ and skill level, and Doncic may never improve his physical abilities. We can only speculate and project according to our inherent biases.

[Bob8]

Wait, who in this thread thinks Doncic is a future bust or bench player?

I think we all unanimously agree that he is at least a starter and lotto pick.

If someone doesn't agree he is the #1 pick or a franchise player then we are somehow down on him as a player.

I know this may shock some but Doncic is my favorite prospect in the 2018 draft even if I don't think he is the best prospect.

It's not that you think that, which makes you wrong, but the fact that you are kind of saying it as an unchangable truth. If everything pans out for Doncic, he is a franchise player. And you are kind of adamant about it that it cannot happen. Don't you agree? While we are saying he could be, you are saying he has no chance. You are talking in absolutes. I guess some do too, from the other side of the argument, but in a Doncic thread that will not be a problem for many.

reanimator's concerns about Doncic are legitimate, and are questions everyone should have.

I think the dissonance and disagreement comes from attitude regarding improvement. Some view improvement as a given, others as a longshot. The fact is, whomever the prospect, wherever their continent of origin, improvement is never a given and simply speculation/projection based on current information.

Of what we know, Doncic has proven the most as the highest level of competition relative to his peers. Domestic prospects like Porter and Bagley have much more to prove at a higher level, but also have higher ceilings given their physical advantages.

We cannot assume that anyone is guaranteed improvement on their skills, physical attributes, basketball IQ, etc. We can only judge based on the current production and sample size.

Neither side is guaranteed to progress past their current point. Porter/Bagley may never improve on their middling IQ and skill level, and Doncic may never improve his physical abilities. We can only speculate and project according to our inherent biases.

You're basically saying that anybody with physical advantages has higher ceiling, no matter what how behind is in skills, feeling for the game and basketball IQ, and how unlikely is that they will ever have one. And then begins funny part, not only that people doubt Doncic will improve in physics, they demand he has all skills at this moment and not only that, he has to showed them in much higher levels of the competition. It looks like double standards to me.

[agentofatlas]

Wait, who in this thread thinks Doncic is a future bust or bench player?

I think we all unanimously agree that he is at least a starter and lotto pick.

If someone doesn't agree he is the #1 pick or a franchise player then we are somehow down on him as a player.

I know this may shock some but Doncic is my favorite prospect in the 2018 draft even if I don't think he is the best prospect.

It's not that you think that, which makes you wrong, but the fact that you are kind of saying it as an unchangable truth. If everything pans out for Doncic, he is a franchise player. And you are kind of adamant about it that it cannot happen. Don't you agree? While we are saying he could be, you are saying he has no chance. You are talking in absolutes. I guess some do too, from the other side of the argument, but in a Doncic thread that will not be a problem for many.

What's does "pan out" mean? Are you saying that current Doncic is a franchise player in his present form?

Why even have a topic about him anyways if we are not gonna look at his game? Is it only suppose to be a highlight/praise thread?

Look I know you guys really like Doncic. Heck we all do. Would love him personally if he goes to the Mavs but we are in an nba draft forum. Poking holes at a prospects game is expected. We can't just say "oh he's 18 I'm sure he'll be a superstar by 25".

The question with him has moved past whether he'll be a top 5 pick cause as it stands, he already is. The questions that me and maybe reanimator and the others are asking is what's his pathway towards being a top player and how difficult is it for him to reach it?

[Bob8]

Wait, who in this thread thinks Doncic is a future bust or bench player?

I think we all unanimously agree that he is at least a starter and lotto pick.

If someone doesn't agree he is the #1 pick or a franchise player then we are somehow down on him as a player.

I know this may shock some but Doncic is my favorite prospect in the 2018 draft even if I don't think he is the best prospect.

It's not that you think that, which makes you wrong, but the fact that you are kind of saying it as an unchangable truth. If everything pans out for Doncic, he is a franchise player. And you are kind of adamant about it that it cannot happen. Don't you agree? While we are saying he could be, you are saying he has no chance. You are talking in absolutes. I guess some do too, from the other side of the argument, but in a Doncic thread that will not be a problem for many.

What's does "pan out" mean? Are you saying that current Doncic is a franchise player in his present form?

Why even have a topic about him anyways if we are not gonna look at his game? Is it only suppose to be a highlight/praise thread?

Look I know you guys really like Doncic. Heck we all do. Would love him personally if he goes to the Mavs but we are in an nba draft forum. Poking holes at a prospects game is expected. We can't just say "oh he's 18 I'm sure he'll be a superstar by 25".

The question with him has moved past whether he'll be a top 5 pick cause as it stands, he already is. The questions that me and maybe reanimator and the others are asking is what's his pathway towards being a top player and how difficult is it for him to reach it?

you're wrong there, Reanimator has him somewhere around Ntilikina level.
we all agree that he will have to improve a lot to become maybe sometime great Nba player. but we don't agree where he's at this moment in comparison to other prospects. if someone says others has to improve more than Doncic, that means Doncic is at this moment ahead of them. but apparently not, because their improvement is granted, and we should be very skeptical that Doncic can improve not only in physics but in skills too.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Sharing my thoughts of the guys:
- his game is extremely mature, much more than the other prospects in his class. But this tells more in my view about his floor than his ceiling, and I agree with people saying that his draft position will depend a lot on the second. He's been put in situations the US guys haven't been, but that doesn't mean those guys won't catch up later in their careers. He can't keep this advantage forever
- I wouldn't really go too far on his lack of athletic ability as a concern. The guy is tall, has a good frame, is coordinated. He can be an offensive force without being a freak, as long as he has the right skills, mind and work ethic
- the guy he reminds me the most is Danilo, who at the same age was already very accomplished (best player in Milan), similar athletically but longer. If he wants to be tier above a healthy version of Danilo, the key is going to be his ability to pull up and to finish with floaters and layups. I'm not sure he's going to be top notch there, but that's what he needs to work on
- what I want to see more about him, athletically, is his balance. That's what allows the the Dirks and the Nash's to be lethal without being explosive. I think that's going to be the difference maker, not how quick he would be
- overall he's definitely #1 material, just not generational at this point. Unless he's going to show next year improvements in what I mentioned, he's not a prospect like Davis (nevertheless LeBron), more in the Wiggins range (predraft).

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[Johnny Firpo]

You're basically saying that anybody with physical advantages has higher ceiling, no matter what how behind is in skills, feeling for the game and basketball IQ, and how unlikely is that they will ever have one. And then begins funny part, not only that people doubt Doncic will improve in physics, they demand he has all skills at this moment and not only that, he has to showed them in much higher levels of the competition. It looks like double standards to me.

Exactly, thank you. You hit the nail on the head.

[Bob8]

Sharing my thoughts of the guys:
- his game is extremely mature, much more than the other prospects in his class. But this tells more in my view about his floor than his ceiling, and I agree with people saying that his draft position will depend a lot on the second. He's been put in situations the US guys haven't been, but that doesn't mean those guys won't catch up later in their careers. He can't keep this advantage forever
- I wouldn't really go to far on his lack of athletic ability as a concern. The guy is tall, has a good frame, is coordinated. He can be an offensive force without being a freak, as long as he has the right skills, mind and work ethic
- the guy he reminds me the most is Danilo, who at the same age was already very accomplished (best player in Milan), similar athletically but longer. If he wants to be tier above a healthy version of Danilo, the key is going to be his ability to pull up and to finish with floaters and layups. I'm not sure he's going to be top notch there, but that's what he needs to work on
- what I want to see more about him, athletically, is his balance. That's what allowes the the Dirks and the Nash's to be lethal without being explosive. I think that's going to be the difference maker, not how quick he would be
- overall he's definitely #1 material, just not generational at this point. Unless he's going to show next year improvements in what I mentioned, he's not a prospect like Davis (nevertheless LeBron), more in the Wiggins range (predraft).

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Danilo first year in Euroleague was when he was 19. That will be Doncic in one year time. And where you see similarities with Danilo I really don't understand? Danilo was never any kind of playmaker or someone with great vision, he had 1.4 assists per game in Euroleague.

[Alyosha12]

The best and only legit comparison for Doncic with out doubt is Magic Johnson.

They are both tall point forwards, push the tempo, slash, great court vision, handles and playmaking ability. Both great rebounders, who like to grab def rebounds and push the fast break as fast as possible. The joy in basketball is also similar in their game. Magic was taller, but Doncic has better range. Also both are not legendary athletes, but make up for it with agility, BBIQ, handles, and feel for the game.

So IMO Donici, best case scenario is Magic, worst case scenario Kukoc.

[PhilBlackson]

I really can't wait to see if this kid lives up to all the hype RealGM bestows on him.

[reanimator]

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[ATLTimekeeper]

I still don't expect him to go 1st overall. There's been 2 white players drafted 1st in the past 35 years or so. And they went back to back in years where the overall top end depth was questioned at the time. The field is strong enough at the top that someone else will go first, plus add in the difficulty of comparing college to european leagues.

Also, keep in mind that the American college prospects will be entering the field of attention this summer, so they'll be hyped and lose hype based on this one season. Doncic will be compared to last year and this tournament.

and Doncic wont be playing 80 or so games from october to june? wut???

That's exactly what I said. He'll be compared to his previous seasons playing at the same level, so if there's any regression or if he doesn't progress to a dominant force it will scare the decision makers. In the NCAA, there will be freshman highly ranked that will fall off immediately. And others will surprise, for the most part NBA GMs will be seeing these players for the 1st time or just based on some smaller tournament play. The freshman that dominate will be more appealing based on that limited sample size.

But really, unless he's head and above shoulders above the competition they'll go with an American. Easier to market. Easier to explain to your owner if he fails.

[Marcus]

It's not that you think that, which makes you wrong, but the fact that you are kind of saying it as an unchangable truth. If everything pans out for Doncic, he is a franchise player. And you are kind of adamant about it that it cannot happen. Don't you agree? While we are saying he could be, you are saying he has no chance. You are talking in absolutes. I guess some do too, from the other side of the argument, but in a Doncic thread that will not be a problem for many.

reanimator's concerns about Doncic are legitimate, and are questions everyone should have.

I think the dissonance and disagreement comes from attitude regarding improvement. Some view improvement as a given, others as a longshot. The fact is, whomever the prospect, wherever their continent of origin, improvement is never a given and simply speculation/projection based on current information.

Of what we know, Doncic has proven the most as the highest level of competition relative to his peers. Domestic prospects like Porter and Bagley have much more to prove at a higher level, but also have higher ceilings given their physical advantages.

We cannot assume that anyone is guaranteed improvement on their skills, physical attributes, basketball IQ, etc. We can only judge based on the current production and sample size.

Neither side is guaranteed to progress past their current point. Porter/Bagley may never improve on their middling IQ and skill level, and Doncic may never improve his physical abilities. We can only speculate and project according to our inherent biases.

You're basically saying that anybody with physical advantages has higher ceiling, no matter what how behind is in skills, feeling for the game and basketball IQ, and how unlikely is that they will ever have one. And then begins funny part, not only that people doubt Doncic will improve in physics, they demand he has all skills at this moment and not only that, he has to showed them in much higher levels of the competition. It looks like double standards to me.

Physical advantages do give you a higher ceiling. There's no guarantee you reach them though and I think that's where you're getting confused. Nobody is guaranteed anything, all these kids will need to work hard to reach their potential.

Also who says Doncic needs to show everything now. Mentioning things he should/could add to his game isn't saying it needs to be done by 18.

I mentioned this to you earlier. But this a prime example of if someone doesn't praise Doncic then that translates to you that that person hates the kid. This bias against him is imaginary.

[Marcus]

I really can't wait to see if this kid lives up to all the hype RealGM bestows on him.

I certainly hope he does. I legit fear for some of our posters if he doesn't.

[kayath]

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Can you put this graph in some context or maybe some comparisons with other good players

[Bob8]

I really can't wait to see if this kid lives up to all the hype RealGM bestows on him.

I certainly hope he does. I legit fear for some of our posters if he doesn't.

Nice comment. I appreciate your concern, but ...

[Marcus]

I really can't wait to see if this kid lives up to all the hype RealGM bestows on him.

I certainly hope he does. I legit fear for some of our posters if he doesn't.

Nice comment. I appreciate your concern, but ...

I actually think a lot of our exchanges are more centered around a misunderstanding of perspective. But if you think it applies to you then I wish you both the best.