Porzingis Unicorn #3 Thread

[blueNorange]

nobody mad latvia ran triangle yet?

i saw it, i kept saying the entire time that it seems like phil knew what he was talking about when he said kristaps fits the triangle.

in other words kristaps moves without the ball.

that's not saying much. kp is a special player who can fit many systems.

lol so melo isn't a special player?

he can't fit into the triangle and he can't fit into ssol.

[blueNorange]

i saw it, i kept saying the entire time that it seems like phil knew what he was talking about when he said kristaps fits the triangle.

in other words kristaps moves without the ball.

that's not saying much. kp is a special player who can fit many systems.

100% this.

Can't wait to see him in a more wide open system with PGs wont catapult themselves against multiple defenders and completely ignore him when he's wide open.

rose wasn't the only one who constantly ignored kristaps

[Tron Carter]

i saw it, i kept saying the entire time that it seems like phil knew what he was talking about when he said kristaps fits the triangle.

in other words kristaps moves without the ball.

that's not saying much. kp is a special player who can fit many systems.

lol so melo isn't a special player?

he can't fit into the triangle and he can't fit into ssol.

well phil signed melo to that contract so he must have thought so huh? classic bNo deflection

[Tron Carter]

that's not saying much. kp is a special player who can fit many systems.

100% this.

Can't wait to see him in a more wide open system with PGs wont catapult themselves against multiple defenders and completely ignore him when he's wide open.

rose wasn't the only one who constantly ignored kristaps

you're right, because all we've heard from kristaps is how he hates playing with melo

rose still owes janis a tv

[TheGreenArrow]

100% this.

Can't wait to see him in a more wide open system with PGs wont catapult themselves against multiple defenders and completely ignore him when he's wide open.

rose wasn't the only one who constantly ignored kristaps

you're right, because all we've heard from kristaps is how he hates playing with melo

rose still owes janis a tv

Was that picture bno posted from a game last season or the year before??

[EchelonNYK]

that's not saying much. kp is a special player who can fit many systems.

100% this.

Can't wait to see him in a more wide open system with PGs wont catapult themselves against multiple defenders and completely ignore him when he's wide open.

rose wasn't the only one who constantly ignored kristaps

This still hurts.

[dakomish23]

that's not saying much. kp is a special player who can fit many systems.

100% this.

Can't wait to see him in a more wide open system with PGs wont catapult themselves against multiple defenders and completely ignore him when he's wide open.

rose wasn't the only one who constantly ignored kristaps

A. He's not the PG. DRose was and failed multiple times every game. Not these one offs when the game clock is under 5 seconds.
B. Do you really not know the difference between a PG inside the arc and a wide open passing lane to KP versus Melo facing a double team beyond the 3PT line and a defender in the way?

No one is acting like the gunner Melo from last year was a willing passer. But DRose, the PG who had the ball in hands way more than Melo, absolutely failed at getting KP the ball in the right spots and at the right time every single game. He's the only one who consistently missed KP. Stop pretending like it's even close to the same thing.

[Fat]

[Sark]

Both Melo and Rose were terrible at passing the ball to KP. It's like trying to compare death by burning vs death by drowning.

[battabing10]

100% this.

Can't wait to see him in a more wide open system with PGs wont catapult themselves against multiple defenders and completely ignore him when he's wide open.

rose wasn't the only one who constantly ignored kristaps

A. He's not the PG. DRose was and failed multiple times every game. Not these one offs when the game clock is under 5 seconds.
B. Do you really not know the difference between a PG inside the arc and a wide open passing lane to KP versus Melo facing a double team beyond the 3PT line and a defender in the way?

No one is acting like the gunner Melo from last year was a willing passer. But DRose, the PG who had the ball in hands way more than Melo, absolutely failed at getting KP the ball in the right spots and at the right time every single game. He's the only one who consistently missed KP. Stop pretending like it's even close to the same thing.

Melo usage 29.1
Rose usage 25.7
KP6 usage 24.3

although Melo had the ball in his hands more in terms of the amount of "plays" the real issue was that Rose should NEVER have a higher usage rate than KP6. this was the primary issue last year. no WAY that should have happened, even though it was easily predictable. rose is an a-hole. this does not exonerate melo, who simply played with zero of the dad melo mindset. truly pathetic!!

[DOT]

Rose averaged a bit over 9 passes per game to KP

F*ckin Jose averaged near 12

And Melo went from 7.6 to 6.7 last year, which is understandable

[dakomish23]

rose wasn't the only one who constantly ignored kristaps

A. He's not the PG. DRose was and failed multiple times every game. Not these one offs when the game clock is under 5 seconds.
B. Do you really not know the difference between a PG inside the arc and a wide open passing lane to KP versus Melo facing a double team beyond the 3PT line and a defender in the way?

No one is acting like the gunner Melo from last year was a willing passer. But DRose, the PG who had the ball in hands way more than Melo, absolutely failed at getting KP the ball in the right spots and at the right time every single game. He's the only one who consistently missed KP. Stop pretending like it's even close to the same thing.

Melo usage 29.1
Rose usage 25.7
KP6 usage 24.3

although Melo had the ball in his hands more in terms of the amount of "plays" the real issue was that Rose should NEVER have a higher usage rate than KP6. this was the primary issue last year. no WAY that should have happened, even though it was easily predictable. rose is an a-hole. this does not exonerate melo, who simply played with zero of the dad melo mindset. truly pathetic!!

A. Usage rate consists of made FGs + FTs, missed FGs + FTs, play turnovers. It is not indicative of how often the person has the ball in their hands.

You should utilize true usage rate
https://fansided.com/stats/true-usage/

B. Who is exonerating Melo?

No one is acting like the gunner Melo from last year was a willing passer.

C. Melo is not the PG. DRose was the PG. and he failed night in night out in getting the ball to KP.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2695672-derrick-rose-ignores-wide-open-kristaps-porzingis-porzingis-reacts

The discussion began with how much better KP will do without a PG who is consistently ignoring him. PG. Not a forward who is not the floor general.

And even then, it was close:
DRose - 1.1 APG to KP and KP shot 45%
Melo? 0.9 APG to KP and KP shot 48%

Do you disagree that Derrick Rose stunted KP's growth?

[ChilledAlex]

Both Melo and Rose were terrible at passing the ball to KP. It's like trying to compare death by burning vs death by drowning.

It's not just passing the ball to KP but team as whole looked bad moving without the ball and creating for others. After watching Slovenia/Latvia playing I was disgusted remembering last couple of Knicks seasons. Hopefully Horny was watching and took notes how to create offensive flow

[Knicksfan20]

There was a point about 1/3 of the way into the season, Zingis was one of the most efficient scorers in the NBA averaging like 23ppg on 48 and 40% (couldn't hit free throws though lol) And we weren't looking to set him up. Made 0 sense and its because we had 2 other selfish scorers. Many times Zingis had to force bad shots just to get a shot up because he wasn't getting the ball.


Removing Rose will definitely help this. Hopefully THJR doesn't go full chuck star mode with starter minutes.

[battabing10]

A. He's not the PG. DRose was and failed multiple times every game. Not these one offs when the game clock is under 5 seconds.
B. Do you really not know the difference between a PG inside the arc and a wide open passing lane to KP versus Melo facing a double team beyond the 3PT line and a defender in the way?

No one is acting like the gunner Melo from last year was a willing passer. But DRose, the PG who had the ball in hands way more than Melo, absolutely failed at getting KP the ball in the right spots and at the right time every single game. He's the only one who consistently missed KP. Stop pretending like it's even close to the same thing.

Melo usage 29.1
Rose usage 25.7
KP6 usage 24.3

although Melo had the ball in his hands more in terms of the amount of "plays" the real issue was that Rose should NEVER have a higher usage rate than KP6. this was the primary issue last year. no WAY that should have happened, even though it was easily predictable. rose is an a-hole. this does not exonerate melo, who simply played with zero of the dad melo mindset. truly pathetic!!

A. Usage rate consists of made FGs + FTs, missed FGs + FTs, play turnovers. It is not indicative of how often the person has the ball in their hands.

You should utilize true usage rate
https://fansided.com/stats/true-usage/

B. Who is exonerating Melo?

No one is acting like the gunner Melo from last year was a willing passer.

C. Melo is not the PG. DRose was the PG. and he failed night in night out in getting the ball to KP.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2695672-derrick-rose-ignores-wide-open-kristaps-porzingis-porzingis-reacts

The discussion began with how much better KP will do without a PG who is consistently ignoring him. PG. Not a forward who is not the floor general.

And even then, it was close:
DRose - 1.1 APG to KP and KP shot 45%
Melo? 0.9 APG to KP and KP shot 48%

Do you disagree that Derrick Rose stunted KP's growth?

I don't disagree. He stunted KP6's growth-- he was the primary culprit. Rose was a horrible horrible horrible pickup. Horrible because he plays zero defense, horrible because he has piss-poor playmaking abilities, and horrible because he should never have had ANY sort of higher usage rate than KP6, no matter *which* usage rate you use. I saw it a mile away, and if Jackson had not had to consider Melo's "window" that trade would never have taken place. Last year should have been just as much about grooming KP6 as it was about Melo's window, and the trade tilted to the former at the expense of the latter. Again-- pathetic!

I looked at your link, but it was for 15-16 not last year. My hunch is that the disparity between Rose and Melo's usage on one hand and KP6's usage on the other will be significant if they had the 16-17 season available.

But the larger point is that basketball is a team game, and the better teammates are those who find he right balance between having the ball in their hands to make plays for themselves on the one hand, and making plays for others on the other hand. We can agree that Rose has been revoltingly bad on this front, like most so-called "score-first point guards" or scoring point guards" (blecchhh). But what does not help is *Melo's* balance between the two, which compounds the problem. Usual Melo's balance is *not* a balance in this regard, which further erodes KP6's effectiveness-- since KP6 will end up getting the ball too late in the possession and end up rushing. This is maybe one reason why so many fans are sick and tired of Melo. Dad Melo, on the other hand, struck a much better balance of scoring for himself and making plays for others, whether with direct assists or hockey assists or simply keeping the ball moving. Big picture, this has been the red thread of Melo's career, and excusing him as an "elite scorer" is just a lousy rationalization befitting fans who just don't understand basketball.

So we all caught a glimpse of what sort of player Melo *could* be, and to see him revert last year has alienated many fans. In this regard, you have to consider that Melo, too, has stunted KP6's growth, and just because KP6 has never publicly groused does not mean there is not some undercurrent of resentment there. That putative internal conflict would put any young man into a situation where he has to use selective memory in order to cope with the ugly truth.

And with that, I expect that KP6 will have the ball in is hands more this year, will have a higher usage rate, AND will start getting more assists and hockey assists. All we've seen of KP6 is basically as a finisher, which he has been reduced to for no good reason. So if he doesn't improve in the area of balancing-- presuming he sees the ball more and earlier in possessions, then I will be disappointed. I also want to see his TS% get to 57-58% this year.

[F N 11]

KP needs to be the man this year period. If Melo gets that, we may be better than what people expect.

[King of Canada]

The KP thread edition #3 has been awful. Part 1 and 2 were pretty awesome. This one should wrap up just in time for the season to start. We'll start fresh on # 4.

[knicksNOTslick]

i saw it, i kept saying the entire time that it seems like phil knew what he was talking about when he said kristaps fits the triangle.

in other words kristaps moves without the ball.

that's not saying much. kp is a special player who can fit many systems.

lol so melo isn't a special player?

he can't fit into the triangle and he can't fit into ssol.

The ability and the willingness to do something are two different things.

So you're wrong. He can fit into the triangle and he can fit with ssol.

He just refused to.

[Bill Pidto]

Melo usage 29.1
Rose usage 25.7
KP6 usage 24.3

although Melo had the ball in his hands more in terms of the amount of "plays" the real issue was that Rose should NEVER have a higher usage rate than KP6. this was the primary issue last year. no WAY that should have happened, even though it was easily predictable. rose is an a-hole. this does not exonerate melo, who simply played with zero of the dad melo mindset. truly pathetic!!

A. Usage rate consists of made FGs + FTs, missed FGs + FTs, play turnovers. It is not indicative of how often the person has the ball in their hands.

You should utilize true usage rate
https://fansided.com/stats/true-usage/

B. Who is exonerating Melo?

No one is acting like the gunner Melo from last year was a willing passer.

C. Melo is not the PG. DRose was the PG. and he failed night in night out in getting the ball to KP.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2695672-derrick-rose-ignores-wide-open-kristaps-porzingis-porzingis-reacts

The discussion began with how much better KP will do without a PG who is consistently ignoring him. PG. Not a forward who is not the floor general.

And even then, it was close:
DRose - 1.1 APG to KP and KP shot 45%
Melo? 0.9 APG to KP and KP shot 48%

Do you disagree that Derrick Rose stunted KP's growth?

I don't disagree. He stunted KP6's growth-- he was the primary culprit. Rose was a horrible horrible horrible pickup. Horrible because he plays zero defense, horrible because he has piss-poor playmaking abilities, and horrible because he should never have had ANY sort of higher usage rate than KP6, no matter *which* usage rate you use. I saw it a mile away, and if Jackson had not had to consider Melo's "window" that trade would never have taken place. Last year should have been just as much about grooming KP6 as it was about Melo's window, and the trade tilted to the former at the expense of the latter. Again-- pathetic!

I looked at your link, but it was for 15-16 not last year. My hunch is that the disparity between Rose and Melo's usage on one hand and KP6's usage on the other will be significant if they had the 16-17 season available.

But the larger point is that basketball is a team game, and the better teammates are those who find he right balance between having the ball in their hands to make plays for themselves on the one hand, and making plays for others on the other hand. We can agree that Rose has been revoltingly bad on this front, like most so-called "score-first point guards" or scoring point guards" (blecchhh). But what does not help is *Melo's* balance between the two, which compounds the problem. Usual Melo's balance is *not* a balance in this regard, which further erodes KP6's effectiveness-- since KP6 will end up getting the ball too late in the possession and end up rushing. This is maybe one reason why so many fans are sick and tired of Melo. Dad Melo, on the other hand, struck a much better balance of scoring for himself and making plays for others, whether with direct assists or hockey assists or simply keeping the ball moving. Big picture, this has been the red thread of Melo's career, and excusing him as an "elite scorer" is just a lousy rationalization befitting fans who just don't understand basketball.

So we all caught a glimpse of what sort of player Melo *could* be, and to see him revert last year has alienated many fans. In this regard, you have to consider that Melo, too, has stunted KP6's growth, and just because KP6 has never publicly groused does not mean there is not some undercurrent of resentment there. That putative internal conflict would put any young man into a situation where he has to use selective memory in order to cope with the ugly truth.

And with that, I expect that KP6 will have the ball in is hands more this year, will have a higher usage rate, AND will start getting more assists and hockey assists. All we've seen of KP6 is basically as a finisher, which he has been reduced to for no good reason. So if he doesn't improve in the area of balancing-- presuming he sees the ball more and earlier in possessions, then I will be disappointed. I also want to see his TS% get to 57-58% this year.

Great post.

Knicks are in a much better position without Rose at PG. So if Melo continues his selfish ways this season, I hope fans boo him into oblivion for it, and I usually hate the boo birds.

[Bill Pidto]

KP needs to be the man this year period. If Melo gets that, we may be better than what people expect.

Melo will likely be too busy trying to prove he's better than 64th in the league.

For the life of me, I can't imagine Melo letting KP become "the man" in NY, but we'll see...