All Things Luka Doncic

[Bob8]

I admit Dragic has great Eurobasket. Much better than I expected. Really great Eurobasket. But do you remember how Teodosic destroyed us in the semis of Eurobasket 2009? We were leading and then in last second he made 3pointer and the game went in overtime? 31 points against us. And I didn't see Teodosic this year? I'm not sure if one year is enough to say someone is better player, especially if other wasn't there.
The other thing is. How many medals has Slovenia won in Fiba championships? Only 1. How many times Dragic played? Many times. And what happened when Doncic played for the first time?
I admit I didn't expect Dragic playing that well. But what about you. Did you expect Doncic to play that well? Being in the best five team of Eurobasket?

no i didnt expect such stats by doncic, but i didnt put any real meaning to it from the beginning. his play just showed just how far ahead he is from his fellow prospects in terms of maturity, game, but it doesnt chancge the fact, i always project him into the nba enviroment. the only thing that changed in my mind is, that he really gets those rebounds faster, quicker, stronger then i thought in the first place, so the rebounding surprised me indeed.

for you to question how many medals does slovenia have and dragic is just sick. even more if you are slovene. then you would know we are a nation of 2 million. since you tell others to look at the bigger picture, your windows are very narrow in the same sentance, how many european gold medals does teodosic have?

i mean, you and many others underestimated Goran vastly and were insulted when i said doncic can pray to get on his nba level one day. Goran is indeed the second best european point guard of all time. behind only tony parker in my mind. you can take the spanoulises, diamantidis, jasikeviciuses, etc out of the equasion, because they were not on the same level - literaly (euroleague - nba). because of that difference in styles and level of play (europe - nba) there will be questions about doncics ceiling until he actualy plays there (the nba)

My point was, that Slovenia needed great Dragic and someone like Doncic to win the gold. We saw in the past that Dragic was not enough. We wouldn't get the gold if either of them were missing. And if we can expect from Nba veteran to be a must, it's not a normal thing for someone 18 years old. Doncic was the best player against Greece, Latvia and Spain, not that Dragic was much worse, I would say crucial games for Slovenia. Dragic was incredible in the final. But we saw after Doncic's injury how physically difficult is to Dragic if he has to do everything alone. And how suddenly no one was taking rebounds. And if we compare Doncic to Dragic. 18 years kid, first time in big competition to Nba veteran, with his best Nba season behind him. This championship proved only 1 thing. Doncic has much higher ceiling. And I'm sure Dragic will be the first to recognize it. In fact he said many times how incredible good Doncic is and how good he will be in the Nba.

If we look in the past, how Dragic played in his first Eurobasket, when he was 21 years old, then the difference is even bigger,

http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/player/p/pid/46941/sid/5169/index.html

I know, Doncic is already matured, he won't improve much....

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Danilo first year in Euroleague was when he was 19. That will be Doncic in one year time. And where you see similarities with Danilo I really don't understand? Danilo was never any kind of playmaker or someone with great vision, he had 1.4 assists per game in Euroleague.

Yes, but Danilo was already playing heavy minutes in Milan the year before.
About Danilo, he was less of creator but had different role in the offense. He actually showed the passing ability and the vision at a very early age, but he was too tall to handle the ball in traffic and turned into more of a scorer.
The similarities come in their size, the way the move and thr advanced game vs their age. Danilo could get to line much more (and this totally translated in the NBA), Luka is a better passer and, probably, a better shooter.
My point is that to be significantly better than Danilo he must be able to pull up and finish at a better rate, and to do it he'll have to work on his balance. Without that I'm not sure he can really leverage on his superior passing.



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[pacersGM]

My point was, that Slovenia needed great Dragic and someone like Doncic to win the gold. We saw in the past that Dragic was not enough. We wouldn't get the gold if either of them were missing. And if we can expect from Nba veteran to be a must, it's not a normal thing for someone 18 years old. Doncic was the best player against Greece, Latvia and Spain, not that Dragic was much worse, I would say crucial games for Slovenia. Dragic was incredible in the final. But we saw after Doncic's injury how physically difficult is to Dragic if he has to do everything alone. And how suddenly no one was taking rebounds. And if we compare Doncic to Dragic. 18 years kid, first time in big competition to Nba veteran, with his best Nba season behind him. This championship proved only 1 thing. Doncic has much higher ceiling. And I'm sure Dragic will be the first to recognize it. In fact he said many times how incredible good Doncic is and how good he will be in the Nba.

If we look in the past, how Dragic played in his first Eurobasket, when he was 21 years old, then the difference is even bigger,

http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/player/p/pid/46941/sid/5169/index.html

I know, Doncic is already matured, he won't improve much....

where was the above your point, show me? all you did the whole time, was discredit dragics ability. and his euro ability. you put him down saying he is not sofisticated enough for the euro game thats really funny, because he just brought the gold medal and was the MVP at the euro game. and no, until today the wizard Teodosic, the EURO GOD, was not able to bring a gold medal to serbia. but how come?? isnt he like levels above dragic with his romantic, virtuoso play? hm all im saying the whole time, if doncic ends his nba career the nba players that goran is, its more then what uber fans can dream of. and if you guys take such career as an insult, then i cant help you either, in that case, enjoy your cloud nr 9 session and may it last

and you say play as dragic showed here is a must from a nba veteran? are you sane? to be the MVP, will his team to the gold medal, and score f... 26 points in one half of the FINAL is a must? damn, you wont settle for less then MJ bringing Doncic to the HOF podium in 20 years wont you?

[Ryoga Hibiki]

The best and only legit comparison for Doncic with out doubt is Magic Johnson.

They are both tall point forwards, push the tempo, slash, great court vision, handles and playmaking ability. Both great rebounders, who like to grab def rebounds and push the fast break as fast as possible. The joy in basketball is also similar in their game. Magic was taller, but Doncic has better range. Also both are not legendary athletes, but make up for it with agility, BBIQ, handles, and feel for the game.

So IMO Donici, best case scenario is Magic, worst case scenario Kukoc.

He has not shown he has that he can finish in traffic and be effective in the post/mid range like Magic. And, actually, he has a fantastic bball IQ but not yet the kind of out of nowhere assists the likes of Magic could deliver. I know he's going to find the open man if the defence is scrambling. Not sure he can find a man if there's little light to teach him.

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[blazeyo]

The photo looks like Shved is 1 inch taller than Bogdanovic and Doncic is taller than Shved. He definitelly looks 6'8''. I know for a fact that Dragic in shoes is at least 6'4'', maybe even a bit taller...

No, he does not, not at least in that photo. Shved and Doncic look the exact same height in that photo, and Shved is clearly standing further away from the camera. On the other hand, Doncic is leaning a bit. The leaning of Doncic, and Shved being further from the camera, probably evens out.

Shved is listed at 6-6 without shoes on in Russia. So based on that photo, Doncic is about 6-7 in shoes, which is exactly the height the Spanish League, FIBA, and EuroLeague list him at.

I've been saying here Doncic is 6-7 to 6-8 in shoes, but in that photo........no, he looks 6-7 in shoes max.

I agree with most of this, but you have to realize that elite skills are just as rare as athleticism, maybe more so. For example, the reason why Bird, Nash, Curry, Dirk, etc. succeeded in becoming all-time great players despite being similar athletes to Doncic in terms of explosiveness, and the reason why Jokic will probably do the same, is their immense skill level. I think from a talent standpoint, Doncic belongs in that category, and if that is true - you may or may not agree with me -, he could do the same.

That's why I have a hard time with the "he cannot be a franchise player because of this and that" argument. From an overall talent package, Doncic definitely compares to these all-time greats' young selves. So why would we put a "second option, "mere" All-Star" cap on him? And again, Reanimator uses absolutes. He says he cannot be that, because he has a hole in his game at 18, which is ridiculous.

Nash and Curry were/are way better athletes than Doncic. Doncic is far slower than either of them. Not even close.

Yes, he does.
Mirotic12, some of your takes are fine, well put together and informative, while others make you want to bash your head against the wall and seem to to mainly try to fit one of your many anecdotal narratives.

I don't know whether Doncic is 6'7 or 6'8, but it's pretty clear he is taller than Shved. Shoulders height is what matters, and Doncic is clearly taller than him by atleast an inch.

Some of your posts are complete head scratching, but it's qutie clear you are very knowledgable, so what gives?

[Bob8]

I feel like I mod fairly. If you have issues with me at all my PM box is always open.

I haven't. You just have that typical American view on things. To understand what Luka is or could be, you should see bigger picture.

Lol. Ok sport.

Sorry, but in sports only winning counts. But here in this draft forum, especially Americans, are looking almost only in height, wingspan, how much someone jumps, how quick he's, how explosive he's...They're talking about some imaginary ceiling. And repeating like parrots about this ceiling, which they build in their imagination in the first place, like it's a proven fact. What's really separate great players from good ones? Physics? I don't think so. We have great players with great physics and average players with great physics and we have great players with average physics. What then, what are we missing here? Maybe skills? Skills are important of course. But are they enough for someone to be a winner? No they aren't. There's some X factor that only few sportsman has. And you has to be born with. Some kind of winning gene. If I would look for franchise player, this would be my first question, is a player a winner? Would Jordan be recognized as the best player of all times, if he hadn't made almost all important shots in his career? I don't think so. Jordan had great physics and skills but most of all he was a winner. And if we're looking at Doncic, it's almost incredible to see, how that young player with only solid athleticism, is doing what he's. He's pure winner. How important is that for being #1 pick? I don't know. But I'm sure that will define his career more than lack of lateral speed or something similar.

[Bob8]

My point was, that Slovenia needed great Dragic and someone like Doncic to win the gold. We saw in the past that Dragic was not enough. We wouldn't get the gold if either of them were missing. And if we can expect from Nba veteran to be a must, it's not a normal thing for someone 18 years old. Doncic was the best player against Greece, Latvia and Spain, not that Dragic was much worse, I would say crucial games for Slovenia. Dragic was incredible in the final. But we saw after Doncic's injury how physically difficult is to Dragic if he has to do everything alone. And how suddenly no one was taking rebounds. And if we compare Doncic to Dragic. 18 years kid, first time in big competition to Nba veteran, with his best Nba season behind him. This championship proved only 1 thing. Doncic has much higher ceiling. And I'm sure Dragic will be the first to recognize it. In fact he said many times how incredible good Doncic is and how good he will be in the Nba.

If we look in the past, how Dragic played in his first Eurobasket, when he was 21 years old, then the difference is even bigger,

http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/player/p/pid/46941/sid/5169/index.html

I know, Doncic is already matured, he won't improve much....

where was the above your point, show me? all you did the whole time, was discredit dragics ability. and his euro ability. you put him down saying he is not sofisticated enough for the euro game thats really funny, because he just brought the gold medal and was the MVP at the euro game. and no, until today the wizard Teodosic, the EURO GOD, was not able to bring a gold medal to serbia. but how come?? isnt he like levels above dragic with his romantic, virtuoso play? hm all im saying the whole time, if doncic ends his nba career the nba players that goran is, its more then what uber fans can dream of. and if you guys take such career as an insult, then i cant help you either, in that case, enjoy your cloud nr 9 session and may it last

and you say play as dragic showed here is a must from a nba veteran? are you sane? to be the MVP, will his team to the gold medal, and score f... 26 points in one half of the FINAL is a must? damn, you wont settle for less then MJ bringing Doncic to the HOF podium in 20 years wont you?

Dragic had bad/average Eurobasket 2007, 2009, 2011. Good 2013 and great 2017. Doncic played only once and had very good Eurobasket, if we take his age in account, incredible Eurobasket, like no one that young before him. And he won gold medal, first for Slovenia. 18 years rookie, winning a first gold for his country, and was named in all tournament team. Dragic was the best player, MVP. But taking everything in consideration, I really can't understand why you think Doncic's ceiling in Nba is something like Dragic? Why can't Doncic be better. After all he's miles better than Dragic was in his youth. He's playing in better club than Dragic ever have in Europe. He had right people around him. He will be drafted much higher, what should help in the beginning of his Nba career. His game is much more diversified than Dragic's.... And if you want, he has won more than Dragic in his entire career.

[pacersGM]

Dragic had bad/average Eurobasket 2007, 2009, 2011. Good 2013 and great 2017. Doncic played only once and had very good Eurobasket, if we take his age in account, incredible Eurobasket, like no one that young before him. And he won gold medal, first for Slovenia. 18 years rookie, winning a first gold for his country, and was named in all tournament team. Dragic was the best player, MVP. But taking everything in consideration, I really can't understand why you think Doncic's ceiling in Nba is something like Dragic? Why can't Doncic be better. After all he's miles better than Dragic was in his youth. He's playing in better club than Dragic ever have in Europe. He had right people around him. He will be drafted much higher, what should help in the beginning of his Nba career. His game is much more diversified than Dragic's.... And if you want, he has won more than Dragic in his entire career.

you probably wont be happy to hear this but ... ATHLETIC ABILITY ... you know, the stuff the superstars (lebron, harden, pg13, cp3, westbrook, kat, garnett, kobe, mcgrady, howard, wall, ... you know, the guys you are trying to present us as doncics close company in his prime) are made of?

because VISION / YOUTH / PASSING / FEEL / VIRTUOSITY against ATHLETIC ABILITY isnt always simple math as 5+ / 1-

+ you are making it sound as if doncic brought dragic the gold. its a team game, for shure, but dont make a silly mistake and think that someone else but dragic pulled this wagon to the gold medal. something TEO on a STACKED serbia team was not able to do

[Bob8]

Dragic had bad/average Eurobasket 2007, 2009, 2011. Good 2013 and great 2017. Doncic played only once and had very good Eurobasket, if we take his age in account, incredible Eurobasket, like no one that young before him. And he won gold medal, first for Slovenia. 18 years rookie, winning a first gold for his country, and was named in all tournament team. Dragic was the best player, MVP. But taking everything in consideration, I really can't understand why you think Doncic's ceiling in Nba is something like Dragic? Why can't Doncic be better. After all he's miles better than Dragic was in his youth. He's playing in better club than Dragic ever have in Europe. He had right people around him. He will be drafted much higher, what should help in the beginning of his Nba career. His game is much more diversified than Dragic's.... And if you want, he has won more than Dragic in his entire career.

you probably wont be happy to hear this but ... ATHLETIC ABILITY ... you know, the stuff the superstars (lebron, harden, pg13, cp3, westbrook, kat, garnett, kobe, mcgrady, howard, wall, ...) are made of?

because VISION / YOUTH / PASSING / FEEL / VIRTUOSITY against ATHLETIC ABILITY isnt always simple math as 5+ / 1-

If that was true, there wouldn't be any white all star players ever. Like there's no one in 100 meters sprint. And we wouldn't even loosing time with white basketball players. And I doubt Dragic would ever has gotten a chance in Nba, because there are many better black athletes than Dragic too. They're maybe much worse players, but who cares if they're more athletic.

[pacersGM]

Dragic had bad/average Eurobasket 2007, 2009, 2011. Good 2013 and great 2017. Doncic played only once and had very good Eurobasket, if we take his age in account, incredible Eurobasket, like no one that young before him. And he won gold medal, first for Slovenia. 18 years rookie, winning a first gold for his country, and was named in all tournament team. Dragic was the best player, MVP. But taking everything in consideration, I really can't understand why you think Doncic's ceiling in Nba is something like Dragic? Why can't Doncic be better. After all he's miles better than Dragic was in his youth. He's playing in better club than Dragic ever have in Europe. He had right people around him. He will be drafted much higher, what should help in the beginning of his Nba career. His game is much more diversified than Dragic's.... And if you want, he has won more than Dragic in his entire career.

you probably wont be happy to hear this but ... ATHLETIC ABILITY ... you know, the stuff the superstars (lebron, harden, pg13, cp3, westbrook, kat, garnett, kobe, mcgrady, howard, wall, ...) are made of?

because VISION / YOUTH / PASSING / FEEL / VIRTUOSITY against ATHLETIC ABILITY isnt always simple math as 5+ / 1-

If that was true, there wouldn't be any white all star players ever. Like there's no one in 100 meters sprint. And we wouldn't even loosing time with white basketball players. And I doubt Dragic would ever has gotten a chance in Nba. Because there are many better black athletes than Dragic too. They're maybe much worse players, but who cares if they're more athletic.

a success! i will eventualy hold your hand to the right conclusions indeed there are white star players, but please, please, please name me a few white (not ment racial in no shape or form) superstars under 6ft8, and we will go from there but dont reach to far into the Bob Cousy era,where athletic ability really wasnt a real factor, or better said wasnt accepted in that times society

because stars arent what you realisticaly expect from luka are they? you are a few levels up with those expectations of yours if im correct?

[Bob8]

you probably wont be happy to hear this but ... ATHLETIC ABILITY ... you know, the stuff the superstars (lebron, harden, pg13, cp3, westbrook, kat, garnett, kobe, mcgrady, howard, wall, ...) are made of?

because VISION / YOUTH / PASSING / FEEL / VIRTUOSITY against ATHLETIC ABILITY isnt always simple math as 5+ / 1-

If that was true, there wouldn't be any whitew all star players ever. Like there's no one in 100 meters sprint. And we wouldn't even loosing time with white basketball players. And I doubt Dragic would ever has gotten a chance in Nba. Because there are many better black athletes than Dragic too. They're maybe much worse players, but who cares if they're more athletic.

a success! i will eventualy hold your hand to the right conclusions indeed there are white star player, but please, please, please name me a few white (not ment racial in no shape or form) superstars under 6ft8, and we will go from there but dont reach to far into the Bob Cousy era,where athletic ability really wasnt a real factor, or better said wasnt really accepted in that times society

Read better, I said all star, not superstar. Doncic being all star will do for me and that will make him better than Dragic, don't you think?

[pacersGM]

If that was true, there wouldn't be any whitew all star players ever. Like there's no one in 100 meters sprint. And we wouldn't even loosing time with white basketball players. And I doubt Dragic would ever has gotten a chance in Nba. Because there are many better black athletes than Dragic too. They're maybe much worse players, but who cares if they're more athletic.

a success! i will eventualy hold your hand to the right conclusions indeed there are white star player, but please, please, please name me a few white (not ment racial in no shape or form) superstars under 6ft8, and we will go from there but dont reach to far into the Bob Cousy era,where athletic ability really wasnt a real factor, or better said wasnt really accepted in that times society

Read better, I said all star, not superstar. Doncic being all star will do for me and that will make him better than Dragic, don't you think?

no no, i hope you dont start beeing humbe (realistic) now. i remember you riding that superstar cloud all the time i on the other hand always said, that an all star appearance would be a realistic wet dream for uber fans

and to widen your narrow horizont a bit. there are sooo many steps doncic has to take before arriving at dragic nba level, that i hope you have enough fuel to will him through those steps, because there are aaaalot left and then some more if i understand his ceeiling some of you set for him

[Bob8]

a success! i will eventualy hold your hand to the right conclusions indeed there are white star player, but please, please, please name me a few white (not ment racial in no shape or form) superstars under 6ft8, and we will go from there but dont reach to far into the Bob Cousy era,where athletic ability really wasnt a real factor, or better said wasnt really accepted in that times society

Read better, I said all star, not superstar. Doncic being all star will do for me and that will make him better than Dragic, don't you think?

no no, i hope you dont start beeing humbe (realistic) now. i remember you riding that superstar cloud all the time i on the other hand always said, that an all star appearance would be a realistic wet dream for uber fans

I never said he's new LeBron or someone like that. I agree, you have to be black for that. Almost all conversions with you was about, if he will be better player than Dragic. You said something like Dragic is his ceiling and all star apperarance is a wet dream. I obviously don't agree with that. Nothing is granted, but imho he has really good chance to be better player than Dragic and be all star. If he will be top 5 pick, Gm's are thinking the same, because noone will pick player that high if his ceiling is borderline all star. But of course to become all star, he will have to do many things right in next 5-10 years.

[Alyosha12]

The best and only legit comparison for Doncic with out doubt is Magic Johnson.

They are both tall point forwards, push the tempo, slash, great court vision, handles and playmaking ability. Both great rebounders, who like to grab def rebounds and push the fast break as fast as possible. The joy in basketball is also similar in their game. Magic was taller, but Doncic has better range. Also both are not legendary athletes, but make up for it with agility, BBIQ, handles, and feel for the game.

So IMO Donici, best case scenario is Magic, worst case scenario Kukoc.

He has not shown he has that he can finish in traffic and be effective in the post/mid range like Magic. And, actually, he has a fantastic bball IQ but not yet the kind of out of nowhere assists the likes of Magic could deliver. I know he's going to find the open man if the defence is scrambling. Not sure he can find a man if there's little light to teach him.

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LMAO I am not saying, he already is prime Magic, I am saying his game is like his, and they are similar in style and philosophy of the game. Magic is his ceiling. He has absolutely shown he can finish in traffic and shown flashes of a post up game, but for now, his body is still too weak for a back to the basket game, however his frame is more then adequate to put on muscle. But like I said, he is shorter then Magic, but has better range. I never said he will be a copy of Magic, but if you are looking at a best case scenario for Doncic, Magic is your man.

[antonac]

a success! i will eventualy hold your hand to the right conclusions indeed there are white star players, but please, please, please name me a few white (not ment racial in no shape or form) superstars under 6ft8, and we will go from there

Steve Nash.

there's always exceptions to the rules.

[juanc]

I think that this Eurobasket experience will have a great impact on Doncic. But not becouse of his games, or the fact that he is the youngest player to be selected in the all tournament5(Luka should be playing the u18 championship...), but becouse he got to spend 2 months with Goran Dragič, who, in my opinion, is a symbol of what you can achieve with hard work. I mean when goran came to the league he got the nickname Tragic... But he never gave up, he always worked hard, and now he is one of only 3 european guards to be in an all NBA team(the other 2 are Petrovic and Parker). He won the MIP, he won the gold with Slovenia and the MVP,...

Luka and Goran were roommates for the whole time.. And I think that Luka got some of Goran's mentality and work ethics.. But we'll see that in the following years

[Marcus]

I haven't. You just have that typical American view on things. To understand what Luka is or could be, you should see bigger picture.

Lol. Ok sport.

Sorry, but in sports only winning counts. But here in this draft forum, especially Americans, are looking almost only in height, wingspan, how much someone jumps, how quick he's, how explosive he's...They're talking about some imaginary ceiling. And repeating like parrots about this ceiling, which they build in their imagination in the first place, like it's a proven fact. What's really separate great players from good ones? Physics? I don't think so. We have great players with great physics and average players with great physics and we have great players with average physics. What then, what are we missing here? Maybe skills? Skills are important of course. But are they enough for someone to be a winner? No they aren't. There's some X factor that only few sportsman has. And you has to be born with. Some kind of winning gene. If I would look for franchise player, this would be my first question, is a player a winner? Would Jordan be recognized as the best player of all times, if he hadn't made almost all important shots in his career? I don't think so. Jordan had great physics and skills but most of all he was a winner. And if we're looking at Doncic, it's almost incredible to see, how that young player with only solid athleticism, is doing what he's. He's pure winner. How important is that for being #1 pick? I don't know. But I'm sure that will define his career more than lack of lateral speed or something similar.

You were holding that one in huh? Glad you finally got that off your chest. As wrong as a lot of it was, I'm not gonna derail the thread addressing it. Anything further put it in a PM.

[Stackey]

A new era has begun: Age of Doncic!

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20668236/there-never-nba-draft-prospect-slovenia-luka-doncic

[Johnny Firpo]

Nash and Curry were/are way better athletes than Doncic. Doncic is far slower than either of them. Not even close.

What a shocker, Sherlock, they are PGs, and Doncic will be a SG/SF in the NBA.

[tria]

Goran is indeed the second best european point guard of all time. behind only tony parker in my mind. you can take the spanoulises, diamantidis, jasikeviciuses, etc out of the equasion, because they were not on the same level - literaly (euroleague - nba). because of that difference in styles and level of play (europe - nba) there will be questions about doncics ceiling until he actualy plays there (the nba)

I think Mirotic12 felt disturbance in the euro force as soon as you wrote that.