Did the Wolves manage to screw something up again?

[Wallace_Wallace]

Nope.

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What do you think about the contract situation of the Wolves? By the looks of it, Wiggins will get the max. The year after, KAT will get the max as well. And then you guys still have Jimmy Butler (whom most likely wants a supermax).

Do you think there's more moves to be made?

[HurricaneKid]

If Wiggins needs to be traded, Middleton is my top target. I would love to see what Butler and Middleton could do as wings on same team. Plus all Wolves would have to do is move Dieng over next 2 years, and Butler-Middleton-Teague-Gibson-Crawford would all have contracts expire/option. Could they collude a big 4? Adding another superstar to Butler-Middleton-Towns.

I think it is hilarious that anyone could believe that Wiggins, on a MAX contract, would be worth anything approaching Middleton.

I'm not sure Wiggins is worth anything of value right now given his impending salary.

I think Wiggins is going to have a ROUGH year. He got a lot of opportunities last year and now with Jimmy, Kat and Teague all taking away touches he is going to have to develop parts of his game that don't exist right now. If he is going to turn down 5/150 given those realities he may very well want out.

[Klomp]

What do you think about the contract situation of the Wolves? By the looks of it, Wiggins will get the max. The year after, KAT will get the max as well. And then you guys still have Jimmy Butler (whom most likely wants a supermax).

Do you think there's more moves to be made?

It's fine.

Next year, they'll be able to fit Wiggins in and still be under the luxury tax. WITH Wiggins maxed and all options picked up, it adds up to $121,723,394 for 11 players, on a luxury tax projected at $124 million. I don't believe all options will be picked up, and waiving Aldrich would clear another $4.9 million.

The year after that, it times up perfectly with all the two-year deals they signed this year, which will give them a bunch of flexibility that summer.

Obviously moves will be made. No team keeps the same 15 players year after year after year. But the core 3 guys won't have to be sacrificed in the process.

[Stillwater]

Yeah just when he was poised to a have a breakout season the org shoves an all star into his spot in the pecking order.Sure they have offered him a huge pay day and want to keep him, but you have to wonder how he feels about the demotion , when he has not lived up to the hype defensively and would be forced to be more of a role player and less of a offensive weapon.

Happy, probably. Wiggins isn't an ego-driven kid who needs the spotlight like some. If anything, we've had to push him to be an offensive star. Folks sure are reading a lot into a Toronto vacation and "whispers".

I would not expect him to be too happy with the Butler acquisition ,if it lessons his usage at this point in his career , unless he is all about winning and not all about himself given the $ on the table,where he still gets paid, however there is also the issue with KAT and Jimi recruiting Irving and dismissing Wiggins . That alone may cause discord if he signs the deal, and might not be something he wants to deal with,as he seems to be about the most laid back personality on the roster.

I'd be happy if they lessened his usage; he was playing way too many minutes last year as it was. But his primary competition for minutes at SG - Zach - is gone now. He and Jimmy will spend a lot of time on the floor together, hopefully with Wiggs at SG where he was utterly dominant as a starter last year.

Shumpert plays good defense in a similar role to what they are about to overpay Wiggins for, lets make a deal, the Cav's would love to have Wiggins offensive impact this season, and if Lebron leaves Wiggins instantly becomes a high usage player in Cleveland. Even if Lebron stays Wiggins still gets more usage offensively than he will next to Butler

I wouldn't offer more than a second-rounder or two for Shumpert. He's not good, and he's overpaid to boot.

no he is very good, he is just not great at any one thing and so in a specialist league he gets demoted by guys like Irving Love Smith etc.
The sad part is he played exceptionally well in the starting line up last year while Smith was out, and outplayed Smith when he played in the post season.
I know Wolves would never do that deal , I was kidding, but Shumpert is far better when locked in than most give him credit, because when he is in his filler role off the bench he is much less engaged.
I think the same thing will happen to Wiggins if his usage does drop next to Butler, hopefully for Wolves and Wiggins that is not the case.
I would still feature Wiggins and KAT on the offensive end and let Butler handle the brunt of the defensive load.

[rugbyrugger23]

If Wiggins needs to be traded, Middleton is my top target. I would love to see what Butler and Middleton could do as wings on same team. Plus all Wolves would have to do is move Dieng over next 2 years, and Butler-Middleton-Teague-Gibson-Crawford would all have contracts expire/option. Could they collude a big 4? Adding another superstar to Butler-Middleton-Towns.

I think it is hilarious that anyone could believe that Wiggins, on a MAX contract, would be worth anything approaching Middleton.

I'm not sure Wiggins is worth anything of value right now given his impending salary.

I think Wiggins is going to have a ROUGH year. He got a lot of opportunities last year and now with Jimmy, Kat and Teague all taking away touches he is going to have to develop parts of his game that don't exist right now. If he is going to turn down 5/150 given those realities he may very well want out.

You do realize Wiggins has the better contract right? A couple threads few pages back detail that whole thing. But here is your summary...

Even with Wiggins 148/5...he is only 6mil more vs. Middleton over next 2 years. And for that 6mil Wolves get a locked in (4 more years), 4 years younger, less injury concern, with more raw upside vs. Middleton. Bucks get a better player today, but for their 6mil savings get a UFA flight risk.

Then the contract delta comes down to what does Middleton sign for? If he re-signs with Bucks, he easily can surpass Wiggins per year cost. Max if I recall is like 176/5.

The rest of your post I respect your opinion. I wouldn't agree (fully) and clearly using salary as argument isn't accurate.

[shangrila]

What do you think about the contract situation of the Wolves? By the looks of it, Wiggins will get the max. The year after, KAT will get the max as well. And then you guys still have Jimmy Butler (whom most likely wants a supermax).

Do you think there's more moves to be made?

I don't think Butler is eligible for the supermax anymore. IIRC you have to be with the same team practically your entire career. It's part of the reason both Butler and Cousins didn't want to leave their teams (not the whole reason, for anyone about to type an angry response about loyalty).

But all 3 will get their max. It could get difficult, especially if Wiggins doesn't develop in other areas, but they've got some flexibility around that time and, hopefully, they'll be a good enough team to warrant some guys taking pay cuts to play for them.

[HurricaneKid]

If Wiggins needs to be traded, Middleton is my top target. I would love to see what Butler and Middleton could do as wings on same team. Plus all Wolves would have to do is move Dieng over next 2 years, and Butler-Middleton-Teague-Gibson-Crawford would all have contracts expire/option. Could they collude a big 4? Adding another superstar to Butler-Middleton-Towns.

I think it is hilarious that anyone could believe that Wiggins, on a MAX contract, would be worth anything approaching Middleton.

I'm not sure Wiggins is worth anything of value right now given his impending salary.

I think Wiggins is going to have a ROUGH year. He got a lot of opportunities last year and now with Jimmy, Kat and Teague all taking away touches he is going to have to develop parts of his game that don't exist right now. If he is going to turn down 5/150 given those realities he may very well want out.

You do realize Wiggins has the better contract right? A couple threads few pages back detail that whole thing. But here is your summary...

Even with Wiggins 148/5...he is only 6mil more vs. Middleton over next 2 years. And for that 6mil Wolves get a locked in (4 more years), 4 years younger, less injury concern, with more raw upside vs. Middleton. Bucks get a better player today, but for their 6mil savings get a UFA flight risk.

Then the contract delta comes down to what does Middleton sign for? If he re-signs with Bucks, he easily can surpass Wiggins per year cost. Max if I recall is like 176/5.

The rest of your post I respect your opinion. I wouldn't agree (fully) and clearly using salary as argument isn't accurate.

We can agree to disagree on this. I understand that when signing young players you have to extrapolate for their future, but the only thing he can really do at this point is score inefficiently. With 3 other scorers on the team, all of whom are far more efficient, its puzzling how one could extrapolate that he is worth 150m over 5. And if he isn't worth 5/150 his contract is a negative. Suggesting that since in 3 years someone else could have a contract that might be almost as bad... its just wild conjecture.

[rugbyrugger23]

I think it is hilarious that anyone could believe that Wiggins, on a MAX contract, would be worth anything approaching Middleton.

I'm not sure Wiggins is worth anything of value right now given his impending salary.

I think Wiggins is going to have a ROUGH year. He got a lot of opportunities last year and now with Jimmy, Kat and Teague all taking away touches he is going to have to develop parts of his game that don't exist right now. If he is going to turn down 5/150 given those realities he may very well want out.

You do realize Wiggins has the better contract right? A couple threads few pages back detail that whole thing. But here is your summary...

Even with Wiggins 148/5...he is only 6mil more vs. Middleton over next 2 years. And for that 6mil Wolves get a locked in (4 more years), 4 years younger, less injury concern, with more raw upside vs. Middleton. Bucks get a better player today, but for their 6mil savings get a UFA flight risk.

Then the contract delta comes down to what does Middleton sign for? If he re-signs with Bucks, he easily can surpass Wiggins per year cost. Max if I recall is like 176/5.

The rest of your post I respect your opinion. I wouldn't agree (fully) and clearly using salary as argument isn't accurate.

We can agree to disagree on this. I understand that when signing young players you have to extrapolate for their future, but the only thing he can really do at this point is score inefficiently. With 3 other scorers on the team, all of whom are far more efficient, its puzzling how one could extrapolate that he is worth 150m over 5. And if he isn't worth 5/150 his contract is a negative. Suggesting that since in 3 years someone else could have a contract that might be almost as bad... its just wild conjecture.

You are misreading what I said and arguing many different points in one reply.

Wiggins worth or not worth his contract -- seperate discussion (and one I never mentioned).

You said Middleton was worth more vs. Wiggins based on contract. And that is false. Or better said contract is in favor of Wiggins.

[HurricaneKid]

You do realize Wiggins has the better contract right? A couple threads few pages back detail that whole thing. But here is your summary...

Even with Wiggins 148/5...he is only 6mil more vs. Middleton over next 2 years. And for that 6mil Wolves get a locked in (4 more years), 4 years younger, less injury concern, with more raw upside vs. Middleton. Bucks get a better player today, but for their 6mil savings get a UFA flight risk.

Then the contract delta comes down to what does Middleton sign for? If he re-signs with Bucks, he easily can surpass Wiggins per year cost. Max if I recall is like 176/5.

The rest of your post I respect your opinion. I wouldn't agree (fully) and clearly using salary as argument isn't accurate.

We can agree to disagree on this. I understand that when signing young players you have to extrapolate for their future, but the only thing he can really do at this point is score inefficiently. With 3 other scorers on the team, all of whom are far more efficient, its puzzling how one could extrapolate that he is worth 150m over 5. And if he isn't worth 5/150 his contract is a negative. Suggesting that since in 3 years someone else could have a contract that might be almost as bad... its just wild conjecture.

You are misreading what I said and arguing many different points in one reply.

Wiggins worth or not worth his contract -- seperate discussion (and one I never mentioned).

You said Middleton was worth more vs. Wiggins based on contract. And that is false. Or better said contract is in favor of Wiggins.

I said we can disagree; instead you presented this as fact which is simply mathematically incorrect.

[rugbyrugger23]

We can agree to disagree on this. I understand that when signing young players you have to extrapolate for their future, but the only thing he can really do at this point is score inefficiently. With 3 other scorers on the team, all of whom are far more efficient, its puzzling how one could extrapolate that he is worth 150m over 5. And if he isn't worth 5/150 his contract is a negative. Suggesting that since in 3 years someone else could have a contract that might be almost as bad... its just wild conjecture.

You are misreading what I said and arguing many different points in one reply.

Wiggins worth or not worth his contract -- seperate discussion (and one I never mentioned).

You said Middleton was worth more vs. Wiggins based on contract. And that is false. Or better said contract is in favor of Wiggins.

I said we can disagree; instead you presented this as fact which is simply mathematically incorrect.

Let's walk through the math for you...

Middleton= 14.1+13=27.1mil next two seasons.
Wiggins= 7.5+25.5=33mil next two seasons.

Next two years Wiggins is 6mil more vs Middleton (see above for math). Then Middleton is flight risk, Wiggins is a RFA. Makes Wiggins contract already better. Advantage: WIGGINS.

If Middleton stays with Bucks:
Max 5 year is 172+ (with yearly cap increases should be 175+) or @35per+
Max 4 year is 133+ (with yearly cap increases should be 135+) or @33per+
If Middleton leaves Bucks:
Max 4 year is 128+ (with yearly cap increases should be 130+) or @32per+

When Middleton gets Hayward'ish money in 2019, of 128/4 (which is still 5-9mil discount), he will also be earning more per year vs. Wiggins' 148/5. Again rewarding Wiggins the better contract. Advantage: WIGGINS.

Added: only aspect in which Middleton has better contract is his trade-ability. Wiggins when he signs extension will have PPP. Middleton this year is easy to trade with good value -- next year easy to trade but less value. With that said, if Wolves wanted to remotely trade Wiggins prior to extension -- it wouldn't be offered and his rookie scale contract would be in play. So next season, trading Wiggins at 25.5 and locked in for 5 or Middleton at 13 and expiring, I think Wiggins gets the better contract nod again.