Political Roundtable Part XV

[Wizardspride]

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[dckingsfan]

lindsey graham, john mccain, and mike pence need to go away....

Not much point in responding to you, but still... first you say "if..." he does a bunch of stuff that he hasn't done & isn't likely to do, then you conclude that he "is pulling this off."

Why don't you start by listing 2 accomplishments of first almost 20% of his Presidency. Actually... start with 1. Something *he* has done, please -- not that the stock market has been good.

My guess - you will hear crickets. Growing the economy - nope. Changing immigration policy - nope (not in any meaningful way). Revamp on the tax code and not just a tax cut - nope. Doing something in foreign policy - nope (unless bluster counts). I guess conservatives could point to the courts.

And maybe that is all we can hope for - four years of nothing. Four years of the same.

This should be depressing for those who voted from Trump and yet I sense glee - positively happy about the change (or non-change or whatever you call it).

I am trying to understand this but it is tough to get your mind around it. stilldroppin seems to be the quintessential Trump supporter. There doesn't seem to be a logic to his determination of success for Trump - unless it is actually a lack of meaningful change.

Maybe it was akin to his speech last night. We will respect the sovereignty or nations. Well, well will respect them if we want to respect them. The logic is there - and then it isn't. Or it is there and just not consistent.

[DCZards]

I find Bernie to be a more cleaver liar than Trump - but a liar none the less. He advocates increasing spending on SS, increase spending on Healthcare, increase spending on higher education and he has no way to pay for it. And there is no question that he knows that - he has been a senator for far too long for that to be lost on him - it is a vehicle to get elected.

I agree with you when you say that Bernie should have a plan for paying for the spending increases he advocates. Where I disagree with you is the idea that his proposals to increase spending on SS, healthcare and higher ed are simply "a vehicle to get elected."

I'm convinced that Bernie deeply believes that increasing spending in those areas is a good idea...and in the best interest of the American people. I agree with him on that.

[gtn130]

Yes, along with every single democrat who has been around a while, Obama's social views have evolved along with the times.

You know what's worse than changing your position on same-sex marriage, abortion or LGBT rights? NOT changing your position on those issues.

I'm for gay marriage gtn. But that fact and Obama's beliefs don't address the content of my original post. I simply pointed out to Jim that changing one's views 180 degrees is not something unique to the poster he was addressing. Our elected leadership do it quite often. In addition to the gay marriage quote, I posted two quotes from Obama regarding the national debt and how in his mind it was immoral and unpatriotic to increase it. I assume you realize that was just a ploy to demonize Bush and posture to make himself look like he was fiscally responsible.

Yes. Sanders had some good things that he campaigned on so does Trump

Sent from my SM-N920T using RealGM mobile app

Buddy, why don't you explain what those good things are? And while you're at it, why don't you explain how you managed to vote for Obama 3x and Bernie, and yet, today you're not only a Trump voter, but a stalwart defender of all things Trump.

Actually, before you do that (you won't), let me just say that I straight up don't believe you. You never voted for Obama, and you never voted for Bernie. Thus far you've been totally unable to answer to anyone regarding what policies/issues actually matter to you beyond your '(((globalists))) r evil!!' take, and yet you will literally defend Daddy Trump on every issue across the board.

It's been made crystal clear to you on multiple occasions now that voting for Trump instead of Hillary because 'our country is not for sale' was not only idiotic but also entirely backwards to a degree that is actually hilarious. Like, you got it so completely wrong, bro, that not having a single moment of reflection or acknowledgement of how wrong you are is an indicator to everyone reading that either:

A) you're extremely dumb and impervious to logic
B) you're lying about your positions and you're low key an ardent and proud member of Trump's Legion of Derp

Neither are a good look for you.

[dckingsfan]

I find Bernie to be a more cleaver liar than Trump - but a liar none the less. He advocates increasing spending on SS, increase spending on Healthcare, increase spending on higher education and he has no way to pay for it. And there is no question that he knows that - he has been a senator for far too long for that to be lost on him - it is a vehicle to get elected.

I agree with you when you say that Bernie should have a plan for paying for the spending increases he advocates. Where I disagree with you is the idea that his proposals to increase spending on SS, healthcare and higher ed are simply "a vehicle to get elected."

I'm convinced that Bernie deeply believes that increasing spending in those areas is a good idea...and in the best interest of the American people. I agree with him on that.

Would you agree that increased spending on those areas is only in the best interests of the American people if the increased spending is sustainable? Is it morally okay to spend more now if you know it bankrupts you later?

I believe that Bernie knows that his plan is not sustainable. I believe that he knows that if his plan was enacted as he advocates, it would move the country to financial ruin much faster. If he knows that and you believe that he has the best interests of the American people then he is almost certainly lying - to get elected.

[cammac]

Socialism isn't bad Canadian Federal Corporate Tax rate is 15% and 10.5% for small businesses.
1st Quarter GDP 3.5% 2nd Quarter 4.5%
Healthcare 10.7% GDP 100% coverage
Deficit estimation of 25 Billion now revised to 17 Billion also Canada has lowest National Debt % of any G7 Country
Rates 2nd Best Country in World after Switzerland and Best Country in the World to live.
About 66% of people want Canada to leave NAFTA without a fair deal.
Best education system in world from primary to secondary schools note education systems run by provinces % of GDP less than 5.5% with USA 7.3%
Post Secondary Education 52.6% spending per student $23.3K Canada 43.1% spending per student $26.0K note USA highest in spending and Canada #2
I hated Trumps UN speech condemning Socialism which he knows nothing about all I know if an ruling party ever suggested taking services from millions of citizens we would have a revolution.

[stilldropin20]

lindsey graham, john mccain, and mike pence need to go away. In fact, most the entire far right republican "old guard" needs to go away.

They have been obstructing the trump train almost as much as the far left liberals. I haven't read the new ACA bill but i'm quite sure its just more hard-line, far right legislation.

that said this is what it will take to get Mccain to sign. so this might get done. I dont like much about the current ACA at all. but if it gets done this will l be a victory for the trump regime.

If trump caves on DACA (as he should) Aaand gets his wall funded (which he should as part of daca reform, this will be a resounding victory for both sides and all americans. Major victory.

This will lead right into tax reform. another major victory.

aaaaaaand if he removes the North Korean regime?? aaaand if he reworks the iranian deal to make the world safer??

trump does all this plus keeps the economy buzzing, and if he keeps us safe from a major terrorist attack, he will not only landslide win in 2020 but he is going to go down as one of the greatest presidents of the past 100 years. Top 5 easily. aaaaaand the far left just cant stand it. that a clown is pulling this off.

Not much point in responding to you, but still... first you say "if..." he does a bunch of stuff that he hasn't done & isn't likely to do, then you conclude that he "is pulling this off."

Why don't you start by listing 2 accomplishments of first almost 20% of his Presidency. Actually... start with 1. Something *he* has done, please -- not that the stock market has been good.

Just Winning the presidency alone made Gorsuch a huge victory in term of strict interpretation of the constitution. HUGE win for the bill of rights. far left liberal judges and legislators are trying to covertly take these away. You may have wanted a far left lib judge?? so for you its a major loss. For the moderates both left and right and the far right this was a major windfall victory.

Huge reformations of the VA. HUGE!!!

terminating existing daca (which was illegal). HUUUUGE!! Obama even called it illegal. Obama kicked the can down the road for someone with the appetite to take on tough legislation. Its a thorny issue. Enter the dirty old man, Donald trump. Should be political suicide for anyone else. but not for teflon Don. he took it on. cancelled the current daca executive order and gave 6 months for legislators to "DO THEIR effin JOB!!" which is make laws. not the president make up laws via executive order. by cancelling daca, it brought the dems to the table. Trump is working with them right now on daca. thats a great thing for the dreamers that dems are at the table. he is making these idiots legislators reach across the isle and work with each other. aka legislate!! Victory!!!

The entire "idea" of a wall and in fact calling it a "wall" has put the idea into the mind of americans that having a "hard border" is ok. You're not the devil, after all. This is an abstract victory in that it also should have been political suicide. Unheard to campaign on such a thing. The "wall" as a campaign pledge would have sunk any other presidential candidate. Not trump. he not only didn't die. he won. Now, even far left Liberals are now open to a wall (aka)"hard border control" as part of immigration reform. This would have been anathema before trump. who again as i said 7 pages ago. as the "dirty old man" in the room gets to say the dirty jokes. The wall would have been impossible before Trump the candidate existed. Now its not only a possibility, its coming. he's going to get a "hard border" wall or no wall. and thats the only way we can do real and long term immigration reform. No politician would take this on in years past. NO ONE! because it should have been impossible to win florida. No florida? no president trump. Huge Huge Huge win. he campaigned on the unimaginable. and won. We can now have a "hard border" because trump made american begin to not only feel ok with it but understand that its actually necessary for responsible border control so that responsible immigration reform can exist. with out a hard border why even have immigration at all???!! "Just come on in!!!! collect you entitlements at the door on the left and vote for liberals at the door on the right." Yeah, A "country" without borders! dont worry your grand children wont be able to afford it but we will stick em with the bill anyway. reports suggest illegal immigration is down 80% or more thanks to trump enforcing existing immigration law and empowering ice to do their job. Major major victory for the people of the united states.

You dont want to deal with the fact the economy steered hard right Nov 8th? whatever bro. bury your head in the sand all you want. wall st. has responded quick on Nov 9th to his hard campaign promise of 15% corp tax rate which began to repatriate trillions. 15% of something is better than 35-40% of nothing. Dont get me wrong. I cant stand corporate welfare of any type. But other countries (like Ireland right now) have special negotiated corporate rates as low 10%. When you have $230Billion in total revenue and 50 Million in profits that tax rate is HUGE. Trump gets that. he wants those corporate funds repatriated. Not every corporation can get sweetheart deals like Apple. They pay much higher rates. By paying less taxes their profit margins increase. and the valuation goes up. thats why the dow is up almost 5K in less than a year.

travel ban is a victory. Like the wall this is an abstract victory. i'm convinced that no other person in the entire world would have taken on this agenda and won. Its should have been political suicide. Instead, the rest of the country is slowly realizing that vetting refugees and immigrants is the just and appropriate and responsible thing to do to protect the american people. no matter what some liberal judge says nor how many snowflakes melt. i'm a former US navy diver and ET/CT tech (intelligence officer) on the USS PARCHE and USS william H bates. (your welcome) and you should google those boats. Grandfather was a ww2 pow. 2 brothers did 20 years US marines (recent retirees). I know a thing or 2 about a thing or 2. hard vetting is a good thing from certain regions. Trump explained it best last night to the UN. The US can financially assist a very human refugee relocation to those countries suffering from war or oppressive regimes and relocate them to the most adjacent countries to their own home country. This keeps americans safer and the refugees in areas where they can assimlate easier and go back home easier if/when their homes are safe again. thats a good thing by the way. I know. youre still confused as to why. Don't worry, honey, the rest of us wont look too down on you.

Commitment to rebuild the military is huge win for americans. Its always best to negotiate with foreign countries from a position of strength. Always. every. single. time. no exceptions here. lib or dem. You know why they took so long to decommission the USS Iowa? and brought her back? twice? Do you know what US presidents used to do with that ship whenever peace was disturbed in any given region or "talks got tough" for other diplomatic reasons? They would deploy the USS Iowa or other Iowa-class battle ships to the region. get real close. And turn those 16" Guns. forward and aft canons directly at the opposition. It worked. that same phenomena still works. Now its drones and air stikes. But ya gotta have the actual guns. Cuz even when you have the guns, rogue nations still "test" your appetite for resolve. You always negotiate from a position of strength.

Nato and UN nations paying their fair share!!!?? HUGE!! No other president has demanded this. let alone got it.

bad Trade deals terminated others have been or will be renegotiated!!!!! lopsided trade with Chica. No one else took this on. No one was even really talking about it. Trump called Taiwon. china no likey. china want 1-china. trump says US will go back to getting stuff from taiwon again. cut to the chase, china has been in step with US on all things North korea. me thinks this call to taiwon plus his hard line to alter existing trade deals with china has forced china to get in step with trump in a way I havent seen since Bush 1.


Some other abstract victories are america first. american worker first. middle class first. bring back manufacturing. He personally has negotiated pledges of over $300Billion in new manufacturing and 50,000 new jobs. Exposing inner city conditions like chicago (where I live), detroit, etc. Calling out the american small town heroin epidemic for what it is. no one else wanted to even talk about these issues. They are real issues. trumped talked about them. however awkwardly.

I could go on and on tbh. But I think you might, already, be melting. I dont think you have any clue about any of this. You stuck on CNN and all you have in your ears are RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA. Impeach!!! Obstruction of justice!!! blah blah blah blah blah!!

Speaking of CNN Don lemon has clapper on right now. lying though his teeth!! lol. as it turns out manafort was surveilled at Trump tower!! lol. Just watch. Trump will be vindicated. but i digress.

[stilldropin20]

I find Bernie to be a more cleaver liar than Trump - but a liar none the less. He advocates increasing spending on SS, increase spending on Healthcare, increase spending on higher education and he has no way to pay for it. And there is no question that he knows that - he has been a senator for far too long for that to be lost on him - it is a vehicle to get elected.

I agree with you when you say that Bernie should have a plan for paying for the spending increases he advocates. Where I disagree with you is the idea that his proposals to increase spending on SS, healthcare and higher ed are simply "a vehicle to get elected."

I'm convinced that Bernie deeply believes that increasing spending in those areas is a good idea...and in the best interest of the American people. I agree with him on that.

Would you agree that increased spending on those areas is only in the best interests of the American people if the increased spending is sustainable? Is it morally okay to spend more now if you know it bankrupts you later?

I believe that Bernie knows that his plan is not sustainable. I believe that he knows that if his plan was enacted as he advocates, it would move the country to financial ruin much faster. If he knows that and you believe that he has the best interests of the American people then he is almost certainly lying - to get elected.

exactly. Bernie has great "ideas." But was unable to pay for them other than hand the bill to out grand children.

I like the idea of free education. because i fully support the notion that our government doing everything it possibly can to provide a pathway to better yourself or "rise up." Thats a great thing.

At the same time you have to be able to fund it with a more comprehensive overall plan. Bernie ran on nothing but good deeds for the american people. with no way to pay them. I like the good deeds. I dont like the idea of just borrowing away to pay for them. and I'm old. I shouldn't give afuq.

[gtn130]

lindsey graham, john mccain, and mike pence need to go away. In fact, most the entire far right republican "old guard" needs to go away.

They have been obstructing the trump train almost as much as the far left liberals. I haven't read the new ACA bill but i'm quite sure its just more hard-line, far right legislation.

that said this is what it will take to get Mccain to sign. so this might get done. I dont like much about the current ACA at all. but if it gets done this will l be a victory for the trump regime.

If trump caves on DACA (as he should) Aaand gets his wall funded (which he should as part of daca reform, this will be a resounding victory for both sides and all americans. Major victory.

This will lead right into tax reform. another major victory.

aaaaaaand if he removes the North Korean regime?? aaaand if he reworks the iranian deal to make the world safer??

trump does all this plus keeps the economy buzzing, and if he keeps us safe from a major terrorist attack, he will not only landslide win in 2020 but he is going to go down as one of the greatest presidents of the past 100 years. Top 5 easily. aaaaaand the far left just cant stand it. that a clown is pulling this off.

Not much point in responding to you, but still... first you say "if..." he does a bunch of stuff that he hasn't done & isn't likely to do, then you conclude that he "is pulling this off."

Why don't you start by listing 2 accomplishments of first almost 20% of his Presidency. Actually... start with 1. Something *he* has done, please -- not that the stock market has been good.

Just Winning the presidency alone made Gorsuch a huge victory in term of strict interpretation of the constitution. HUGE win for the bill of rights. far left liberal judges and legislators are trying to covertly take these away. You may have wanted a far left lib judge?? so for you its a major loss. For the moderates both left and right and the far right this was a major windfall victory.

Huge reformations of the VA. HUGE!!!

terminating existing daca (which was illegal). HUUUUGE!! Obama even called it illegal. Obama kicked the can down the road for someone with the appetite to take on tough legislation. Its a thorny issue. Enter the dirty old man, Donald trump. Should be political suicide for anyone else. but not for teflon Don. he took it on. cancelled the current daca executive order and gave 6 months for legislators to "DO THEIR effin JOB!!" which is make laws. not the president make up laws via executive order. by cancelling daca, it brought the dems to the table. Trump is working with them right now on daca. thats a great thing for the dreamers that dems are at the table. he is making these idiots legislators reach across the isle and work with each other. aka legislate!! Victory!!!

The entire "idea" of a wall and in fact calling it a "wall" has put the idea into the mind of americans that having a "hard border" is ok. You're not the devil, after all. This is an abstract victory in that it also should have been political suicide. Unheard to campaign on such a thing. The "wall" as a campaign pledge would have sunk any other presidential candidate. Not trump. he not only didn't die. he won. Now, even far left Liberals are now open to a wall (aka)"hard border control" as part of immigration reform. This would have been anathema before trump. who again as i said 7 pages ago. as the "dirty old man" in the room gets to say the dirty jokes. The wall would have been impossible before Trump the candidate existed. Now its not only a possibility, its coming. he's going to get a "hard border" wall or no wall. and thats the only way we can do real and long term immigration reform. No politician would take this on in years past. NO ONE! because it should have been impossible to win florida. No florida? no president trump. Huge Huge Huge win. he campaigned on the unimaginable. and won. We can now have a "hard border" because trump made american begin to not only feel ok with it but understand that its actually necessary for responsible border control so that responsible immigration reform can exist. with out a hard border why even have immigration at all???!! "Just come on in!!!! collect you entitlements at the door on the left and vote for liberals at the door on the right." Yeah, A "country" without borders! dont worry your grand children wont be able to afford it but we will stick em with the bill anyway. reports suggest illegal immigration is down 80% or more thanks to trump enforcing existing immigration law and empowering ice to do their job. Major major victory for the people of the united states.

You dont want to deal with the fact the economy steered hard right Nov 8th? whatever bro. bury your head in the sand all you want. wall st. has responded quick on Nov 9th to his hard campaign promise of 15% corp tax rate which began to repatriate trillions. 15% of something is better than 35-40% of nothing. Dont get me wrong. I cant stand corporate welfare of any type. But other countries (like Ireland right now) have special negotiated corporate rates as low 10%. When you have $230Billion in total revenue and 50 Million in profits that tax rate is HUGE. Trump gets that. he wants those corporate funds repatriated. Not every corporation can get sweetheart deals like Apple. They pay much higher rates. By paying less taxes their profit margins increase. and the valuation goes up. thats why the dow is up almost 5K in less than a year.

travel ban is a victory. Like the wall this is an abstract victory. i'm convinced that no other person in the entire world would have taken on this agenda and won. Its should have been political suicide. Instead, the rest of the country is slowly realizing that vetting refugees and immigrants is the just and appropriate and responsible thing to do to protect the american people. no matter what some liberal judge says nor how many snowflakes melt. i'm a former US navy diver and ET/CT tech (intelligence officer) on the USS PARCHE and USS william H bates. (your welcome) and you should google those boats. Grandfather was a ww2 pow. 2 brothers did 20 years US marines (recent retirees). I know a thing or 2 about a thing or 2. hard vetting is a good thing from certain regions. Trump explained it best last night to the UN. The US can financially assist a very human refugee relocation to those countries suffering from war or oppressive regimes and relocate them to the most adjacent countries to their own home country. This keeps americans safer and the refugees in areas where they can assimlate easier and go back home easier if/when their homes are safe again. thats a good thing by the way. I know. youre still confused as to why. Don't worry, honey, the rest of us wont look too down on you.

Commitment to rebuild the military is huge win for americans. Its always best to negotiate with foreign countries from a position of strength. Always. every. single. time. no exceptions here. lib or dem. You know why they took so long to decommission the USS Iowa? and brought her back? twice? Do you know what US presidents used to do with that ship whenever peace was disturbed in any given region or "talks got tough" for other diplomatic reasons? They would deploy the USS Iowa or other Iowa-class battle ships to the region. get real close. And turn those 16" Guns. forward and aft canons directly at the opposition. It worked. that same phenomena still works. Now its drones and air stikes. But ya gotta have the actual guns. Cuz even when you have the guns, rogue nations still "test" your appetite for resolve. You always negotiate from a position of strength.

Nato and UN nations paying their fair share!!!?? HUGE!! No other president has demanded this. let alone got it.

bad Trade deals terminated others have been or will be renegotiated!!!!! lopsided trade with Chica. No one else took this on. No one was even really talking about it. Trump called Taiwon. china no likey. china want 1-china. trump says US will go back to getting stuff from taiwon again. cut to the chase, china has been in step with US on all things North korea. me thinks this call to taiwon plus his hard line to alter existing trade deals with china has forced china to get in step with trump in a way I havent seen since Bush 1.


Some other abstract victories are america first. american worker first. middle class first. bring back manufacturing. He personally has negotiated pledges of over $300Billion in new manufacturing and 50,000 new jobs. Exposing inner city conditions like chicago (where I live), detroit, etc. Calling out the american small town heroin epidemic for what it is. no one else wanted to even talk about these issues. They are real issues. trumped talked about them. however awkwardly.

I could go on and on tbh. But I think you might, already, be melting. I dont think you have any clue about any of this. You stuck on CNN and all you have in your ears are RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA. Impeach!!! Obstruction of justice!!! blah blah blah blah blah!!

Speaking of CNN Don lemon has clapper on right now. lying though his teeth!! lol. as it turns out manafort was surveilled at Trump tower!! lol. Just watch. Trump will be vindicated. but i digress.

Ok, so you're actually a Trump supporter across the board. Glad we've come to terms with that lmao

[stilldropin20]

Not much point in responding to you, but still... first you say "if..." he does a bunch of stuff that he hasn't done & isn't likely to do, then you conclude that he "is pulling this off."

Why don't you start by listing 2 accomplishments of first almost 20% of his Presidency. Actually... start with 1. Something *he* has done, please -- not that the stock market has been good.

Just Winning the presidency alone made Gorsuch a huge victory in term of strict interpretation of the constitution. HUGE win for the bill of rights. far left liberal judges and legislators are trying to covertly take these away. You may have wanted a far left lib judge?? so for you its a major loss. For the moderates both left and right and the far right this was a major windfall victory.

Huge reformations of the VA. HUGE!!!

terminating existing daca (which was illegal). HUUUUGE!! Obama even called it illegal. Obama kicked the can down the road for someone with the appetite to take on tough legislation. Its a thorny issue. Enter the dirty old man, Donald trump. Should be political suicide for anyone else. but not for teflon Don. he took it on. cancelled the current daca executive order and gave 6 months for legislators to "DO THEIR effin JOB!!" which is make laws. not the president make up laws via executive order. by cancelling daca, it brought the dems to the table. Trump is working with them right now on daca. thats a great thing for the dreamers that dems are at the table. he is making these idiots legislators reach across the isle and work with each other. aka legislate!! Victory!!!

The entire "idea" of a wall and in fact calling it a "wall" has put the idea into the mind of americans that having a "hard border" is ok. You're not the devil, after all. This is an abstract victory in that it also should have been political suicide. Unheard to campaign on such a thing. The "wall" as a campaign pledge would have sunk any other presidential candidate. Not trump. he not only didn't die. he won. Now, even far left Liberals are now open to a wall (aka)"hard border control" as part of immigration reform. This would have been anathema before trump. who again as i said 7 pages ago. as the "dirty old man" in the room gets to say the dirty jokes. The wall would have been impossible before Trump the candidate existed. Now its not only a possibility, its coming. he's going to get a "hard border" wall or no wall. and thats the only way we can do real and long term immigration reform. No politician would take this on in years past. NO ONE! because it should have been impossible to win florida. No florida? no president trump. Huge Huge Huge win. he campaigned on the unimaginable. and won. We can now have a "hard border" because trump made american begin to not only feel ok with it but understand that its actually necessary for responsible border control so that responsible immigration reform can exist. with out a hard border why even have immigration at all???!! "Just come on in!!!! collect you entitlements at the door on the left and vote for liberals at the door on the right." Yeah, A "country" without borders! dont worry your grand children wont be able to afford it but we will stick em with the bill anyway. reports suggest illegal immigration is down 80% or more thanks to trump enforcing existing immigration law and empowering ice to do their job. Major major victory for the people of the united states.

You dont want to deal with the fact the economy steered hard right Nov 8th? whatever bro. bury your head in the sand all you want. wall st. has responded quick on Nov 9th to his hard campaign promise of 15% corp tax rate which began to repatriate trillions. 15% of something is better than 35-40% of nothing. Dont get me wrong. I cant stand corporate welfare of any type. But other countries (like Ireland right now) have special negotiated corporate rates as low 10%. When you have $230Billion in total revenue and 50 Million in profits that tax rate is HUGE. Trump gets that. he wants those corporate funds repatriated. Not every corporation can get sweetheart deals like Apple. They pay much higher rates. By paying less taxes their profit margins increase. and the valuation goes up. thats why the dow is up almost 5K in less than a year.

travel ban is a victory. Like the wall this is an abstract victory. i'm convinced that no other person in the entire world would have taken on this agenda and won. Its should have been political suicide. Instead, the rest of the country is slowly realizing that vetting refugees and immigrants is the just and appropriate and responsible thing to do to protect the american people. no matter what some liberal judge says nor how many snowflakes melt. i'm a former US navy diver and ET/CT tech (intelligence officer) on the USS PARCHE and USS william H bates. (your welcome) and you should google those boats. Grandfather was a ww2 pow. 2 brothers did 20 years US marines (recent retirees). I know a thing or 2 about a thing or 2. hard vetting is a good thing from certain regions. Trump explained it best last night to the UN. The US can financially assist a very human refugee relocation to those countries suffering from war or oppressive regimes and relocate them to the most adjacent countries to their own home country. This keeps americans safer and the refugees in areas where they can assimlate easier and go back home easier if/when their homes are safe again. thats a good thing by the way. I know. youre still confused as to why. Don't worry, honey, the rest of us wont look too down on you.

Commitment to rebuild the military is huge win for americans. Its always best to negotiate with foreign countries from a position of strength. Always. every. single. time. no exceptions here. lib or dem. You know why they took so long to decommission the USS Iowa? and brought her back? twice? Do you know what US presidents used to do with that ship whenever peace was disturbed in any given region or "talks got tough" for other diplomatic reasons? They would deploy the USS Iowa or other Iowa-class battle ships to the region. get real close. And turn those 16" Guns. forward and aft canons directly at the opposition. It worked. that same phenomena still works. Now its drones and air stikes. But ya gotta have the actual guns. Cuz even when you have the guns, rogue nations still "test" your appetite for resolve. You always negotiate from a position of strength.

Nato and UN nations paying their fair share!!!?? HUGE!! No other president has demanded this. let alone got it.

bad Trade deals terminated others have been or will be renegotiated!!!!! lopsided trade with Chica. No one else took this on. No one was even really talking about it. Trump called Taiwon. china no likey. china want 1-china. trump says US will go back to getting stuff from taiwon again. cut to the chase, china has been in step with US on all things North korea. me thinks this call to taiwon plus his hard line to alter existing trade deals with china has forced china to get in step with trump in a way I havent seen since Bush 1.


Some other abstract victories are america first. american worker first. middle class first. bring back manufacturing. He personally has negotiated pledges of over $300Billion in new manufacturing and 50,000 new jobs. Exposing inner city conditions like chicago (where I live), detroit, etc. Calling out the american small town heroin epidemic for what it is. no one else wanted to even talk about these issues. They are real issues. trumped talked about them. however awkwardly.

I could go on and on tbh. But I think you might, already, be melting. I dont think you have any clue about any of this. You stuck on CNN and all you have in your ears are RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA. Impeach!!! Obstruction of justice!!! blah blah blah blah blah!!

Speaking of CNN Don lemon has clapper on right now. lying though his teeth!! lol. as it turns out manafort was surveilled at Trump tower!! lol. Just watch. Trump will be vindicated. but i digress.

Ok, so you're actually a Trump supporter across the board. Glad we've come to terms with that lmao

aaaaaaaaaand i voted for obama 3 times and bernie once. accept it. its true.

look i fully support gay marriage, lbgtq life style, and I am willing to fund planned parenthood for abortions up to 3 months and soooooooooooooo much more liberal legislation, xxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx!!! got it!!!???? I'm a lifelong democrat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!people like me exist!!! You didn't account for me in this past election!!?? too effin bad!!! i'll bring a box of tissues over for you, jake tapper, and anderson cooper and don lemon in 2020 as well. I aint going nowhere!!!! i just happen think the safety of the country, trade deals, the diminishing middles class, the 1% hoarding wealth are MUCH MUCH bigger issues right now!!!!!! you keep playing your small ball identity politics and name calling. whatever keeps you off of the streets!!!

Here's the kicker. I think trump thinks like me. he is a lifelong registered democrat as well. But HRC had this 2016 DNC nomination in the bag and the 70 year old Trump's time was now or never. So he went with the GOP cuz fiscally he's a moderate-far right conservative anyway. And he's more interested in playing big ball politics anyway!! He will squeeze out small ball "identity" political wins for the left when he can. for example working with dems right now on daca.

my god!! go play in traffic, already!!! demanding i answer your question like an effin seventeen year old girl! like who dafuq you think you is, bro?!!

[DCZards]

I believe that Bernie knows that his plan is not sustainable. I believe that he knows that if his plan was enacted as he advocates, it would move the country to financial ruin much faster. If he knows that and you believe that he has the best interests of the American people then he is almost certainly lying - to get elected.

Yes, Bernie almost certainly knows that his proposal for increased spending will require a plan to pay for it. He also knows that debate will come. Bernie likely has some ideas as to how to pay for his proposal. But sometimes you don't want to show your hand until the time is right.

It doesn't make him a liar to take the approach of making a proposal for increased spending and then engaging later with other elected leaders in the more difficult discussion/debate of how to pay for it. It may not be an approach you like or agree with, but personally I don't have a problem with it.

[Kanyewest]

I find Bernie to be a more cleaver liar than Trump - but a liar none the less. He advocates increasing spending on SS, increase spending on Healthcare, increase spending on higher education and he has no way to pay for it. And there is no question that he knows that - he has been a senator for far too long for that to be lost on him - it is a vehicle to get elected.

I agree with you when you say that Bernie should have a plan for paying for the spending increases he advocates. Where I disagree with you is the idea that his proposals to increase spending on SS, healthcare and higher ed are simply "a vehicle to get elected."

I'm convinced that Bernie deeply believes that increasing spending in those areas is a good idea...and in the best interest of the American people. I agree with him on that.

It is all about priorities. The US just agreed to raise military spending by $80 billion (Trump only asked for $56 billion). Bernie Sander's initiative to have free college was $70 billion.

[DCZards]

Just Winning the presidency alone made Gorsuch a huge victory in term of strict interpretation of the constitution. HUGE win for the bill of rights. far left liberal judges and legislators are trying to covertly take these away. You may have wanted a far left lib judge?? so for you its a major loss. For the moderates both left and right and the far right this was a major windfall victory.

Huge reformations of the VA. HUGE!!!

terminating existing daca (which was illegal). HUUUUGE!! Obama even called it illegal. Obama kicked the can down the road for someone with the appetite to take on tough legislation. Its a thorny issue. Enter the dirty old man, Donald trump. Should be political suicide for anyone else. but not for teflon Don. he took it on. cancelled the current daca executive order and gave 6 months for legislators to "DO THEIR effin JOB!!" which is make laws. not the president make up laws via executive order. by cancelling daca, it brought the dems to the table. Trump is working with them right now on daca. thats a great thing for the dreamers that dems are at the table. he is making these idiots legislators reach across the isle and work with each other. aka legislate!! Victory!!!

The entire "idea" of a wall and in fact calling it a "wall" has put the idea into the mind of americans that having a "hard border" is ok. You're not the devil, after all. This is an abstract victory in that it also should have been political suicide. Unheard to campaign on such a thing. The "wall" as a campaign pledge would have sunk any other presidential candidate. Not trump. he not only didn't die. he won. Now, even far left Liberals are now open to a wall (aka)"hard border control" as part of immigration reform. This would have been anathema before trump. who again as i said 7 pages ago. as the "dirty old man" in the room gets to say the dirty jokes. The wall would have been impossible before Trump the candidate existed. Now its not only a possibility, its coming. he's going to get a "hard border" wall or no wall. and thats the only way we can do real and long term immigration reform. No politician would take this on in years past. NO ONE! because it should have been impossible to win florida. No florida? no president trump. Huge Huge Huge win. he campaigned on the unimaginable. and won. We can now have a "hard border" because trump made american begin to not only feel ok with it but understand that its actually necessary for responsible border control so that responsible immigration reform can exist. with out a hard border why even have immigration at all???!! "Just come on in!!!! collect you entitlements at the door on the left and vote for liberals at the door on the right." Yeah, A "country" without borders! dont worry your grand children wont be able to afford it but we will stick em with the bill anyway. reports suggest illegal immigration is down 80% or more thanks to trump enforcing existing immigration law and empowering ice to do their job. Major major victory for the people of the united states.

You dont want to deal with the fact the economy steered hard right Nov 8th? whatever bro. bury your head in the sand all you want. wall st. has responded quick on Nov 9th to his hard campaign promise of 15% corp tax rate which began to repatriate trillions. 15% of something is better than 35-40% of nothing. Dont get me wrong. I cant stand corporate welfare of any type. But other countries (like Ireland right now) have special negotiated corporate rates as low 10%. When you have $230Billion in total revenue and 50 Million in profits that tax rate is HUGE. Trump gets that. he wants those corporate funds repatriated. Not every corporation can get sweetheart deals like Apple. They pay much higher rates. By paying less taxes their profit margins increase. and the valuation goes up. thats why the dow is up almost 5K in less than a year.

travel ban is a victory. Like the wall this is an abstract victory. i'm convinced that no other person in the entire world would have taken on this agenda and won. Its should have been political suicide. Instead, the rest of the country is slowly realizing that vetting refugees and immigrants is the just and appropriate and responsible thing to do to protect the american people. no matter what some liberal judge says nor how many snowflakes melt. i'm a former US navy diver and ET/CT tech (intelligence officer) on the USS PARCHE and USS william H bates. (your welcome) and you should google those boats. Grandfather was a ww2 pow. 2 brothers did 20 years US marines (recent retirees). I know a thing or 2 about a thing or 2. hard vetting is a good thing from certain regions. Trump explained it best last night to the UN. The US can financially assist a very human refugee relocation to those countries suffering from war or oppressive regimes and relocate them to the most adjacent countries to their own home country. This keeps americans safer and the refugees in areas where they can assimlate easier and go back home easier if/when their homes are safe again. thats a good thing by the way. I know. youre still confused as to why. Don't worry, honey, the rest of us wont look too down on you.

Commitment to rebuild the military is huge win for americans. Its always best to negotiate with foreign countries from a position of strength. Always. every. single. time. no exceptions here. lib or dem. You know why they took so long to decommission the USS Iowa? and brought her back? twice? Do you know what US presidents used to do with that ship whenever peace was disturbed in any given region or "talks got tough" for other diplomatic reasons? They would deploy the USS Iowa or other Iowa-class battle ships to the region. get real close. And turn those 16" Guns. forward and aft canons directly at the opposition. It worked. that same phenomena still works. Now its drones and air stikes. But ya gotta have the actual guns. Cuz even when you have the guns, rogue nations still "test" your appetite for resolve. You always negotiate from a position of strength.

Nato and UN nations paying their fair share!!!?? HUGE!! No other president has demanded this. let alone got it.

bad Trade deals terminated others have been or will be renegotiated!!!!! lopsided trade with Chica. No one else took this on. No one was even really talking about it. Trump called Taiwon. china no likey. china want 1-china. trump says US will go back to getting stuff from taiwon again. cut to the chase, china has been in step with US on all things North korea. me thinks this call to taiwon plus his hard line to alter existing trade deals with china has forced china to get in step with trump in a way I havent seen since Bush 1.


Some other abstract victories are america first. american worker first. middle class first. bring back manufacturing. He personally has negotiated pledges of over $300Billion in new manufacturing and 50,000 new jobs. Exposing inner city conditions like chicago (where I live), detroit, etc. Calling out the american small town heroin epidemic for what it is. no one else wanted to even talk about these issues. They are real issues. trumped talked about them. however awkwardly.

I could go on and on tbh. But I think you might, already, be melting. I dont think you have any clue about any of this. You stuck on CNN and all you have in your ears are RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA. Impeach!!! Obstruction of justice!!! blah blah blah blah blah!!

Speaking of CNN Don lemon has clapper on right now. lying though his teeth!! lol. as it turns out manafort was surveilled at Trump tower!! lol. Just watch. Trump will be vindicated. but i digress.

DACA was illegal? Where did you hear that? No court has ever deemed DACA illegal.

Travel ban. The courts have pretty much gutted that haven't they? Trump's idea for a ban that targeted people because of their religious beliefs wasn't going anywhere in a country based on religious freedom.

Commitment to strengthening the military. What president hasn't done that? And right now it's little more than a commitment given that no budget has been passed since DT took office.

Bringing back manufacturing? I wish it were true but that ship has sailed. Time to recognize we're in the 21st century and not the 1950s and '60s.

Pledges of over $300 billion in new manufacturing. Where did you get that from? Please don't tell me it comes directly from the Liar-in-Chief. And are you aware that Trump has been taking credit for manufacturing deals made before he took office? I didn't think you were.

Wall Street was already doing quite well when DT took office. Thanks Barack! Trump has done little to change that trajectory.

Don't get me started on that multi-billion dollar "wall" Trump wants to build. It's a lousy idea with little support in Congress and zero funding. BTW, what happened to the idea of Mexico paying for the wall? I know, it was just another lie that Trump told his gullible supporters in order to get elected.

Almost all of the Trump "victories" you describe above are more abstract than concrete. Glad that makes you happy though, bro.

[stilldropin20]

I find Bernie to be a more cleaver liar than Trump - but a liar none the less. He advocates increasing spending on SS, increase spending on Healthcare, increase spending on higher education and he has no way to pay for it. And there is no question that he knows that - he has been a senator for far too long for that to be lost on him - it is a vehicle to get elected.

I agree with you when you say that Bernie should have a plan for paying for the spending increases he advocates. Where I disagree with you is the idea that his proposals to increase spending on SS, healthcare and higher ed are simply "a vehicle to get elected."

I'm convinced that Bernie deeply believes that increasing spending in those areas is a good idea...and in the best interest of the American people. I agree with him on that.

It is all about priorities. The US just agreed to raise military spending by $80 billion (Trump only asked for $56 billion). Bernie Sander's initiative to have free college was $70 billion.

and rocket man shot off 16 ICBM missiles since then. methinks congress and the president know best about when to increase military spending. if this was a more peaceful time like the 90's? I'd be all for military cuts and free college spending. That said, it was all the military spending in the 80's that made the 90's so bland and safe.

Anyway, i just saw hillary colbert speak on what she would say if she were president. no seriously you cant make this up.

Here's you go Hillary

Watch on YouTube

[stilldropin20]

Just Winning the presidency alone made Gorsuch a huge victory in term of strict interpretation of the constitution. HUGE win for the bill of rights. far left liberal judges and legislators are trying to covertly take these away. You may have wanted a far left lib judge?? so for you its a major loss. For the moderates both left and right and the far right this was a major windfall victory.

Huge reformations of the VA. HUGE!!!

terminating existing daca (which was illegal). HUUUUGE!! Obama even called it illegal. Obama kicked the can down the road for someone with the appetite to take on tough legislation. Its a thorny issue. Enter the dirty old man, Donald trump. Should be political suicide for anyone else. but not for teflon Don. he took it on. cancelled the current daca executive order and gave 6 months for legislators to "DO THEIR effin JOB!!" which is make laws. not the president make up laws via executive order. by cancelling daca, it brought the dems to the table. Trump is working with them right now on daca. thats a great thing for the dreamers that dems are at the table. he is making these idiots legislators reach across the isle and work with each other. aka legislate!! Victory!!!

The entire "idea" of a wall and in fact calling it a "wall" has put the idea into the mind of americans that having a "hard border" is ok. You're not the devil, after all. This is an abstract victory in that it also should have been political suicide. Unheard to campaign on such a thing. The "wall" as a campaign pledge would have sunk any other presidential candidate. Not trump. he not only didn't die. he won. Now, even far left Liberals are now open to a wall (aka)"hard border control" as part of immigration reform. This would have been anathema before trump. who again as i said 7 pages ago. as the "dirty old man" in the room gets to say the dirty jokes. The wall would have been impossible before Trump the candidate existed. Now its not only a possibility, its coming. he's going to get a "hard border" wall or no wall. and thats the only way we can do real and long term immigration reform. No politician would take this on in years past. NO ONE! because it should have been impossible to win florida. No florida? no president trump. Huge Huge Huge win. he campaigned on the unimaginable. and won. We can now have a "hard border" because trump made american begin to not only feel ok with it but understand that its actually necessary for responsible border control so that responsible immigration reform can exist. with out a hard border why even have immigration at all???!! "Just come on in!!!! collect you entitlements at the door on the left and vote for liberals at the door on the right." Yeah, A "country" without borders! dont worry your grand children wont be able to afford it but we will stick em with the bill anyway. reports suggest illegal immigration is down 80% or more thanks to trump enforcing existing immigration law and empowering ice to do their job. Major major victory for the people of the united states.

You dont want to deal with the fact the economy steered hard right Nov 8th? whatever bro. bury your head in the sand all you want. wall st. has responded quick on Nov 9th to his hard campaign promise of 15% corp tax rate which began to repatriate trillions. 15% of something is better than 35-40% of nothing. Dont get me wrong. I cant stand corporate welfare of any type. But other countries (like Ireland right now) have special negotiated corporate rates as low 10%. When you have $230Billion in total revenue and 50 Million in profits that tax rate is HUGE. Trump gets that. he wants those corporate funds repatriated. Not every corporation can get sweetheart deals like Apple. They pay much higher rates. By paying less taxes their profit margins increase. and the valuation goes up. thats why the dow is up almost 5K in less than a year.

travel ban is a victory. Like the wall this is an abstract victory. i'm convinced that no other person in the entire world would have taken on this agenda and won. Its should have been political suicide. Instead, the rest of the country is slowly realizing that vetting refugees and immigrants is the just and appropriate and responsible thing to do to protect the american people. no matter what some liberal judge says nor how many snowflakes melt. i'm a former US navy diver and ET/CT tech (intelligence officer) on the USS PARCHE and USS william H bates. (your welcome) and you should google those boats. Grandfather was a ww2 pow. 2 brothers did 20 years US marines (recent retirees). I know a thing or 2 about a thing or 2. hard vetting is a good thing from certain regions. Trump explained it best last night to the UN. The US can financially assist a very human refugee relocation to those countries suffering from war or oppressive regimes and relocate them to the most adjacent countries to their own home country. This keeps americans safer and the refugees in areas where they can assimlate easier and go back home easier if/when their homes are safe again. thats a good thing by the way. I know. youre still confused as to why. Don't worry, honey, the rest of us wont look too down on you.

Commitment to rebuild the military is huge win for americans. Its always best to negotiate with foreign countries from a position of strength. Always. every. single. time. no exceptions here. lib or dem. You know why they took so long to decommission the USS Iowa? and brought her back? twice? Do you know what US presidents used to do with that ship whenever peace was disturbed in any given region or "talks got tough" for other diplomatic reasons? They would deploy the USS Iowa or other Iowa-class battle ships to the region. get real close. And turn those 16" Guns. forward and aft canons directly at the opposition. It worked. that same phenomena still works. Now its drones and air stikes. But ya gotta have the actual guns. Cuz even when you have the guns, rogue nations still "test" your appetite for resolve. You always negotiate from a position of strength.

Nato and UN nations paying their fair share!!!?? HUGE!! No other president has demanded this. let alone got it.

bad Trade deals terminated others have been or will be renegotiated!!!!! lopsided trade with Chica. No one else took this on. No one was even really talking about it. Trump called Taiwon. china no likey. china want 1-china. trump says US will go back to getting stuff from taiwon again. cut to the chase, china has been in step with US on all things North korea. me thinks this call to taiwon plus his hard line to alter existing trade deals with china has forced china to get in step with trump in a way I havent seen since Bush 1.


Some other abstract victories are america first. american worker first. middle class first. bring back manufacturing. He personally has negotiated pledges of over $300Billion in new manufacturing and 50,000 new jobs. Exposing inner city conditions like chicago (where I live), detroit, etc. Calling out the american small town heroin epidemic for what it is. no one else wanted to even talk about these issues. They are real issues. trumped talked about them. however awkwardly.

I could go on and on tbh. But I think you might, already, be melting. I dont think you have any clue about any of this. You stuck on CNN and all you have in your ears are RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA. Impeach!!! Obstruction of justice!!! blah blah blah blah blah!!

Speaking of CNN Don lemon has clapper on right now. lying though his teeth!! lol. as it turns out manafort was surveilled at Trump tower!! lol. Just watch. Trump will be vindicated. but i digress.

DACA was illegal? Where did you hear that? No court has ever deemed DACA illegal.

Travel ban. The courts have pretty much gutted that haven't they? Trump's idea for a ban that targeted people because of their religious beliefs wasn't going anywhere in a country based on religious freedom.

Commitment to strengthening the military. What president hasn't done that? And right now it's little more than a commitment given that no budget has been passed since DT took office.

Bringing back manufacturing? I wish it were true but that ship has sailed. Time to recognize we're in the 21st century and not the 1950s and '60s.

Wall Street was already doing quite well when DT took office. Thanks Barack!

Don't get me started on that multi-billion dollar "wall" Trump wants to build. It's a lousy idea with little support in Congress and zero funding. BTW, what happened to the idea of Mexico paying for the wall? I know, it was just another lie that Trump told his gullible supporters in order to get elected.

Almost all of the Trump "victories" you describe above are more abstract than concrete. Glad that makes you happy though, bro.

Daca:

existing (legal) laws written by congress and signed by past presidents exist on immigration (reagan early 80's i beleive). Basically, you go though the normal application immigration process or claim political asylem (2 feet on dry land while fleeing a communist state or oppressive regime. dems da laws!!! I didn't write em nor did trump.

no president has touched this issue since reagan. its a political suicide mission as you quickly get labeled a racists by the far left liberla biased main stream media. Basically, obama usurped existing law by issuing a series of 12 executives in effect legislating from the oval office. the executive orders were taken to court and a federal judge threw them out(obama's daca orders). Obama, by taking pen to paper in 2012 and addressing (the dreamers) including retroactive dreamers and created a legal vaccuum which has given illegal immigrant legal standing in the court to at least argue their case and remain here until said case is heard by the highest court (which is conservative 5-4).

the legality of it is that strict constitionalist believe congress writes the laws. not the president. Again, existing laws were already on the books. Obama's series of 12 executive daca orders are in conflict with existing immigration laws passed through congress. yet the dreamers are here. some have been here a long time. over 20 years. These dreamers, armed with obama executive orders, are filing for state entitlement programs. So a state governor took the federal government to court to get the fed gov to pay for said entitlements.

democrats love these laws(i mean illegal executive daca orders) because if you combine it with lax boarder control you end up with millions more of of undocumented immigrants. the gasoline on this issue is that these same immigrants dont need ID's to vote. they are NOT citizens with proper legal standing and they almost strictly vote for democrats. like i said, its a thorny issue. No one wants to touch this. Trump did. In fact he even sprinkled on voter fraud for an appetizer claiming that millions of people illegally vote. An dhe may be right. But because this is such a taboo thorny issue the american people will never know. dems dont want you to know and conservative are afraid to ask for fear of being labeled a racist.

No republican has had the political appetite to effectively tackles and grasp this thorny issue without committting political suicide in potential swing states such as florida and arizona. Until trump. Of course trump was called a racists and every other name and label under the sun along the way. And in taking this on...exposing it...negotiating these murky waters successfully...in a nutshell, is why donald trump is president.

it was a nifty move by obama. Brillaint actually. It not only likely helped him in his own 2012 election against romney but it also likely helped keep some democrats in the house and senate. but even with all that, trump still crushed hillary.

Trump is in a bind now because he is the "law and order" candidate. and legally, daca has been declared unconstitutional by most constitutional experts including obama himself-who himself pushed congress to act on this when he had a majority noting that he didn't want to usurp the constituiton and create the legal vacuum. Emotionally, no one wants to deport good kids and young adults that are productive members of society. INCLUDING TRUMP who has all but caved in on amnesty for them...something he campaigned against but will likely do the right thing if dems give him his funding for his wall. Trump's base can/will be forced to swallow that amnesty. again, something no other candidate could pull off. but his base is behind him. which is a good thing. otherwise he couldnt cave. no amnesty.

ftr, i personally fully support amnesty of every one already here with no criminal back ground. but the way trump played this was pure genius. No one saw this one coming.

[CobraCommander]

I find Bernie to be a more cleaver liar than Trump - but a liar none the less. He advocates increasing spending on SS, increase spending on Healthcare, increase spending on higher education and he has no way to pay for it. And there is no question that he knows that - he has been a senator for far too long for that to be lost on him - it is a vehicle to get elected.

I agree with you when you say that Bernie should have a plan for paying for the spending increases he advocates. Where I disagree with you is the idea that his proposals to increase spending on SS, healthcare and higher ed are simply "a vehicle to get elected."

I'm convinced that Bernie deeply believes that increasing spending in those areas is a good idea...and in the best interest of the American people. I agree with him on that.

It is all about priorities. The US just agreed to raise military spending by $80 billion (Trump only asked for $56 billion). Bernie Sander's initiative to have free college was $70 billion.

I'm not a socialist but if you leave this country and go to china or india you will see over the top poverty and the potential to have more college educated people in each country than we have total people - period. China and India are playing the long (100 year) game and we fighting over 4 to 8 year elections where the next guy can roll back the clock on progress. When a country has 5 to 10 times the educated people AND that many more uneducated laborers to manufacture goods and arm thier militaries, please tell me how we are supposed to compete? If we dont socialize education we might not have enough brains just to keep up. America and the western world doesn't have the market cornered on science and technology. I hate the thought of socialism but for the survival of our nation we need more classically educated people.

[stilldropin20]

I agree with you when you say that Bernie should have a plan for paying for the spending increases he advocates. Where I disagree with you is the idea that his proposals to increase spending on SS, healthcare and higher ed are simply "a vehicle to get elected."

I'm convinced that Bernie deeply believes that increasing spending in those areas is a good idea...and in the best interest of the American people. I agree with him on that.

It is all about priorities. The US just agreed to raise military spending by $80 billion (Trump only asked for $56 billion). Bernie Sander's initiative to have free college was $70 billion.

I'm not a socialist but if you leave this country and go to china or india you will see over the top poverty and the potential to have more college educated people in each country than we have total people - period. China and India are playing the long (100 year) game and we fighting over 4 to 8 year elections where the next guy can roll back the clock on progress. When a country has 5 to 10 times the educated people AND that many more uneducated laborers to manufacture goods and arm thier militaries, please tell me how we are supposed to compete? If we dont socialize education we might not have enough brains just to keep up. America and the western world doesn't have the market cornered on science and technology. I hate the thought of socialism but for the survival of our nation we need more classically educated people.

we keep up with a reformed immigration policy. we pluck the cream of the crop. aka we take all of their "geniuses" and make them our geniuses. This is also part of Trumps immigration reform. libs are crying foul, of course.

this is another trump soon-to-be victory. he's going to get it no matter how much the stupid and moronic far left cry "elitism" or whatever "ism" they cry next. they are frickin morons. dont listen to them. and they know this is an issue. no matter what they "cry" on CNN they are going to get this passed. They understand the urgency. The future of the entire military is going to revolve almost strictly around technology. They get it. they'll get this done. watch.

But, You are right. This is the weak link. we just dont have the man power. and in term of total brain power. other countries, no matter how poor. just have significantly more brain power.

I've been saying this for years. immigration policy should completely change. we should create manufacturing zones for new immigrants and "work towns" for immigrants. Allow corporationss to Build massive towns and with manufacturing plants and allow them to "hire" immigrants and pay them sig lower wages for a period of time as they assimilate they make a wage more consistent with typical american wages. This would bring back jobs, manufacoturing, tax dollars, etc. educate their children with the best of educations to help keep up with foreign education systems like china and japan. Force their children into military service. say 2 years. as former military let me be clear. its the best thing i did for myself. and created a sense of loyalty and duty to the USA. something every lib can benefit from tbh. pick up a gun and stand a watch. then let's talk politics.

do that and make ing"recruit" high end talent part of immigration reform and we will get smarter and grow as a popluation. Both will be necessary down the road.

By the way, any of you guys ever ask yourselves what is going to happen when we run out of food!???????? that day is coming. we are going to run out of food at some point. The world is just not that big. we are on pace for 11.2 Billion people in 2100. Thats without HgH. Once we start taking HgH we are going to live even longer. the earth is heating up. and rogue nations are being allowed to compile nuclear warheads and test missiles. we will see what happens when people pesticides and other contaminants spoil the soil and the demand for food continue with the population and people start to get hungry.

[gtn130]

Just Winning the presidency alone made Gorsuch a huge victory in term of strict interpretation of the constitution. HUGE win for the bill of rights. far left liberal judges and legislators are trying to covertly take these away. You may have wanted a far left lib judge?? so for you its a major loss. For the moderates both left and right and the far right this was a major windfall victory.

Huge reformations of the VA. HUGE!!!

terminating existing daca (which was illegal). HUUUUGE!! Obama even called it illegal. Obama kicked the can down the road for someone with the appetite to take on tough legislation. Its a thorny issue. Enter the dirty old man, Donald trump. Should be political suicide for anyone else. but not for teflon Don. he took it on. cancelled the current daca executive order and gave 6 months for legislators to "DO THEIR effin JOB!!" which is make laws. not the president make up laws via executive order. by cancelling daca, it brought the dems to the table. Trump is working with them right now on daca. thats a great thing for the dreamers that dems are at the table. he is making these idiots legislators reach across the isle and work with each other. aka legislate!! Victory!!!

The entire "idea" of a wall and in fact calling it a "wall" has put the idea into the mind of americans that having a "hard border" is ok. You're not the devil, after all. This is an abstract victory in that it also should have been political suicide. Unheard to campaign on such a thing. The "wall" as a campaign pledge would have sunk any other presidential candidate. Not trump. he not only didn't die. he won. Now, even far left Liberals are now open to a wall (aka)"hard border control" as part of immigration reform. This would have been anathema before trump. who again as i said 7 pages ago. as the "dirty old man" in the room gets to say the dirty jokes. The wall would have been impossible before Trump the candidate existed. Now its not only a possibility, its coming. he's going to get a "hard border" wall or no wall. and thats the only way we can do real and long term immigration reform. No politician would take this on in years past. NO ONE! because it should have been impossible to win florida. No florida? no president trump. Huge Huge Huge win. he campaigned on the unimaginable. and won. We can now have a "hard border" because trump made american begin to not only feel ok with it but understand that its actually necessary for responsible border control so that responsible immigration reform can exist. with out a hard border why even have immigration at all???!! "Just come on in!!!! collect you entitlements at the door on the left and vote for liberals at the door on the right." Yeah, A "country" without borders! dont worry your grand children wont be able to afford it but we will stick em with the bill anyway. reports suggest illegal immigration is down 80% or more thanks to trump enforcing existing immigration law and empowering ice to do their job. Major major victory for the people of the united states.

You dont want to deal with the fact the economy steered hard right Nov 8th? whatever bro. bury your head in the sand all you want. wall st. has responded quick on Nov 9th to his hard campaign promise of 15% corp tax rate which began to repatriate trillions. 15% of something is better than 35-40% of nothing. Dont get me wrong. I cant stand corporate welfare of any type. But other countries (like Ireland right now) have special negotiated corporate rates as low 10%. When you have $230Billion in total revenue and 50 Million in profits that tax rate is HUGE. Trump gets that. he wants those corporate funds repatriated. Not every corporation can get sweetheart deals like Apple. They pay much higher rates. By paying less taxes their profit margins increase. and the valuation goes up. thats why the dow is up almost 5K in less than a year.

travel ban is a victory. Like the wall this is an abstract victory. i'm convinced that no other person in the entire world would have taken on this agenda and won. Its should have been political suicide. Instead, the rest of the country is slowly realizing that vetting refugees and immigrants is the just and appropriate and responsible thing to do to protect the american people. no matter what some liberal judge says nor how many snowflakes melt. i'm a former US navy diver and ET/CT tech (intelligence officer) on the USS PARCHE and USS william H bates. (your welcome) and you should google those boats. Grandfather was a ww2 pow. 2 brothers did 20 years US marines (recent retirees). I know a thing or 2 about a thing or 2. hard vetting is a good thing from certain regions. Trump explained it best last night to the UN. The US can financially assist a very human refugee relocation to those countries suffering from war or oppressive regimes and relocate them to the most adjacent countries to their own home country. This keeps americans safer and the refugees in areas where they can assimlate easier and go back home easier if/when their homes are safe again. thats a good thing by the way. I know. youre still confused as to why. Don't worry, honey, the rest of us wont look too down on you.

Commitment to rebuild the military is huge win for americans. Its always best to negotiate with foreign countries from a position of strength. Always. every. single. time. no exceptions here. lib or dem. You know why they took so long to decommission the USS Iowa? and brought her back? twice? Do you know what US presidents used to do with that ship whenever peace was disturbed in any given region or "talks got tough" for other diplomatic reasons? They would deploy the USS Iowa or other Iowa-class battle ships to the region. get real close. And turn those 16" Guns. forward and aft canons directly at the opposition. It worked. that same phenomena still works. Now its drones and air stikes. But ya gotta have the actual guns. Cuz even when you have the guns, rogue nations still "test" your appetite for resolve. You always negotiate from a position of strength.

Nato and UN nations paying their fair share!!!?? HUGE!! No other president has demanded this. let alone got it.

bad Trade deals terminated others have been or will be renegotiated!!!!! lopsided trade with Chica. No one else took this on. No one was even really talking about it. Trump called Taiwon. china no likey. china want 1-china. trump says US will go back to getting stuff from taiwon again. cut to the chase, china has been in step with US on all things North korea. me thinks this call to taiwon plus his hard line to alter existing trade deals with china has forced china to get in step with trump in a way I havent seen since Bush 1.


Some other abstract victories are america first. american worker first. middle class first. bring back manufacturing. He personally has negotiated pledges of over $300Billion in new manufacturing and 50,000 new jobs. Exposing inner city conditions like chicago (where I live), detroit, etc. Calling out the american small town heroin epidemic for what it is. no one else wanted to even talk about these issues. They are real issues. trumped talked about them. however awkwardly.

I could go on and on tbh. But I think you might, already, be melting. I dont think you have any clue about any of this. You stuck on CNN and all you have in your ears are RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA. Impeach!!! Obstruction of justice!!! blah blah blah blah blah!!

Speaking of CNN Don lemon has clapper on right now. lying though his teeth!! lol. as it turns out manafort was surveilled at Trump tower!! lol. Just watch. Trump will be vindicated. but i digress.

DACA was illegal? Where did you hear that? No court has ever deemed DACA illegal.

Travel ban. The courts have pretty much gutted that haven't they? Trump's idea for a ban that targeted people because of their religious beliefs wasn't going anywhere in a country based on religious freedom.

Commitment to strengthening the military. What president hasn't done that? And right now it's little more than a commitment given that no budget has been passed since DT took office.

Bringing back manufacturing? I wish it were true but that ship has sailed. Time to recognize we're in the 21st century and not the 1950s and '60s.

Wall Street was already doing quite well when DT took office. Thanks Barack!

Don't get me started on that multi-billion dollar "wall" Trump wants to build. It's a lousy idea with little support in Congress and zero funding. BTW, what happened to the idea of Mexico paying for the wall? I know, it was just another lie that Trump told his gullible supporters in order to get elected.

Almost all of the Trump "victories" you describe above are more abstract than concrete. Glad that makes you happy though, bro.

Daca:

existing (legal) laws written by congress and signed by past presidents exist on immigration (reagan early 80's i beleive). Basically, you go though the normal application immigration process or claim political asylem (2 feet on dry land while fleeing a communist state or oppressive regime. dems da laws!!! I didn't write em nor did trump.

no president has touched this issue since reagan. its a political suicide mission as you quickly get labeled a racists by the far left liberla biased main stream media. Basically, obama usurped existing law by issuing a series of 12 executives in effect legislating from the oval office. the executive orders were taken to court and a federal judge threw them out(obama's daca orders). Obama, by taking pen to paper in 2012 and addressing (the dreamers) including retroactive dreamers and created a legal vaccuum which has given illegal immigrant legal standing in the court to at least argue their case and remain here until said case is heard by the highest court (which is conservative 5-4).

the legality of it is that strict constitionalist believe congress writes the laws. not the president. Again, existing laws were already on the books. Obama's series of 12 executive daca orders are in conflict with existing immigration laws passed through congress. yet the dreamers are here. some have been here a long time. over 20 years. These dreamers, armed with obama executive orders, are filing for state entitlement programs. So a state governor took the federal government to court to get the fed gov to pay for said entitlements.

democrats love these laws(i mean illegal executive daca orders) because if you combine it with lax boarder control you end up with millions more of of undocumented immigrants. the gasoline on this issue is that these same immigrants dont need ID's to vote. they are NOT citizens with proper legal standing and they almost strictly vote for democrats. like i said, its a thorny issue. No one wants to touch this. Trump did. In fact he even sprinkled on voter fraud for an appetizer claiming that millions of people illegally vote. An dhe may be right. But because this is such a taboo thorny issue the american people will never know. dems dont want you to know and conservative are afraid to ask for fear of being labeled a racist.

No republican has had the political appetite to effectively tackles and grasp this thorny issue without committting political suicide in potential swing states such as florida and arizona. Until trump. Of course trump was called a racists and every other name and label under the sun along the way. And in taking this on...exposing it...negotiating these murky waters successfully...in a nutshell, is why donald trump is president.

it was a nifty move by obama. Brillaint actually. It not only likely helped him in his own 2012 election against romney but it also likely helped keep some democrats in the house and senate. but even with all that, trump still crushed hillary.

Trump is in a bind now because he is the "law and order" candidate. and legally, daca has been declared unconstitutional by most constitutional experts including obama himself-who himself pushed congress to act on this when he had a majority noting that he didn't want to usurp the constituiton and create the legal vacuum. Emotionally, no one wants to deport good kids and young adults that are productive members of society. INCLUDING TRUMP who has all but caved in on amnesty for them...something he campaigned against but will likely do the right thing if dems give him his funding for his wall. Trump's base can/will be forced to swallow that amnesty. again, something no other candidate could pull off. but his base is behind him. which is a good thing. otherwise he couldnt cave. no amnesty.

ftr, i personally fully support amnesty of every one already here with no criminal back ground. but the way trump played this was pure genius. No one saw this one coming.

Yeah, you're still just making things up.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/sep/11/eric-schneiderman/has-daca-been-ruled-unconstitutional/

"It's a straightforward fact that no court has declared DACA unconstitutional and that the one appellate court that considered a related program declined to address the issue," said Amy Spitalnick, spokeswoman for Schneiderman.

Not one court has ruled DACA unconstitutional, but tell us more about how 'illegal' it is, my dude. For being so woke, you really like to tow the party line on every single issue, huh?

[dckingsfan]

Socialism isn't bad Canadian Federal Corporate Tax rate is 15% and 10.5% for small businesses.
1st Quarter GDP 3.5% 2nd Quarter 4.5%
Healthcare 10.7% GDP 100% coverage
Deficit estimation of 25 Billion now revised to 17 Billion also Canada has lowest National Debt % of any G7 Country
Rates 2nd Best Country in World after Switzerland and Best Country in the World to live.
About 66% of people want Canada to leave NAFTA without a fair deal.
Best education system in world from primary to secondary schools note education systems run by provinces % of GDP less than 5.5% with USA 7.3%
Post Secondary Education 52.6% spending per student $23.3K Canada 43.1% spending per student $26.0K note USA highest in spending and Canada #2
I hated Trumps UN speech condemning Socialism which he knows nothing about all I know if an ruling party ever suggested taking services from millions of citizens we would have a revolution.

cammac, please understand the definition of Socialism. Canada is foremost a capitalist society with a sprinkling of socialist policies. My guess is that if Canada ever tried to plan your private sector - Canada would be ruined. There was a lot not to like about his speech - but that wasn't one of them.

[dckingsfan]

It is all about priorities. The US just agreed to raise military spending by $80 billion (Trump only asked for $56 billion). Bernie Sander's initiative to have free college was $70 billion.

I'm not a socialist but if you leave this country and go to china or india you will see over the top poverty and the potential to have more college educated people in each country than we have total people - period. China and India are playing the long (100 year) game and we fighting over 4 to 8 year elections where the next guy can roll back the clock on progress. When a country has 5 to 10 times the educated people AND that many more uneducated laborers to manufacture goods and arm thier militaries, please tell me how we are supposed to compete? If we dont socialize education we might not have enough brains just to keep up. America and the western world doesn't have the market cornered on science and technology. I hate the thought of socialism but for the survival of our nation we need more classically educated people.

we keep up with a reformed immigration policy. we pluck the cream of the crop. aka we take all of their "geniuses" and make them our geniuses. This is also part of Trumps immigration reform. libs are crying foul, of course.

One time I get to agree with stilldropin - we do need am immigration policy based upon skills and age. Our demographic is an aging population and we don't have the means to employee or train unskilled labor like as in the past. Our familial based immigration policy has/is failing us. (Trump's policy is actually worse than the existing policy)

Our current education system (which is based upon central government planning - probably one of the most socialistic parts of our government) isn't very competitive with other countries. It needs to change. But we have entrenched interests that have worked to keep it in place, namely professional educators. Not only do they provide a bad product, they are bankrupting our local municipalities. They have done everything they can to keep competition out. In the best performing countries kids and their parents are recruited with more than one choice of school.