All Things Luka Doncic

[UcanUwill]

I feel like majority of these NBA vs Euroleague debates would die down if FIBA just agreed to adopt the rules and regulations entirely. Play the same amount of minutes with same court size. Then you'd see how inferior the rest of the world really is and why it's so hard for European guards to make it in the NBA. Which is kind of the main concern people have with Doncic.

I dont think so. I mean they would still face same level of competition, how would it prove anything?

[Rasho Brezec]

I feel like majority of these NBA vs Euroleague debates would die down if FIBA just agreed to adopt the rules and regulations entirely. Play the same amount of minutes with same court size. Then you'd see how inferior the rest of the world really is and why it's so hard for European guards to make it in the NBA. Which is kind of the main concern people have with Doncic.

I dont think so. I mean they would still face same level of competition, how would it prove anything?

We'd be seeing some terrible basketball, especially on defense. Less help defense to bail you out, no camping in the lane for bigs.

It's hard to judge the level of competition when standards are so different. NCAA rules are even worse, but it's not a real competition anyways, just a talent show for potential NBA players.

[Marcus]

take that conversation to the PMs and out of the thread.

[reanimator]

Like mentioned above, the main thing with Doncic is that his floor seems extremly high. Once his body fully develops, i think it's hard of him being worse than say Gordon Hayward with better passing and probably better rebounding. I mean that's a really really high floor, and basically a surefire max player.

His floor from a production stand point (not stylistic) is closer to Nic Batum IMO.

Hayward put up 21 ppg on 60 TS% and has a pull up plus a degree of verticality around the rim that I don't know that Doncic will achieve. Also a pretty decent defender.

[Stackey]

I read how Chris Webber was one of those kids with the hype around them even at their elementary school time. And he actually turned into a great NBA player.

Doncic is also one of them. When he was like 12 years old you could read about him in the media.

It's contrary to the guys like Nurkic who said he basically started with serious basketball trainings when he was already a teeneger.

[blazeyo]

Like mentioned above, the main thing with Doncic is that his floor seems extremly high. Once his body fully develops, i think it's hard of him being worse than say Gordon Hayward with better passing and probably better rebounding. I mean that's a really really high floor, and basically a surefire max player.

His floor from a production stand point (not stylistic) is closer to Nic Batum IMO.

Hayward put up 21 ppg on 60 TS% and has a pull up plus a degree of verticality around the rim that I don't know that Doncic will achieve. Also a pretty decent defender.

Hayward is not a decent defender and I don't see how he maintains the same level of play this year.
he has a negative DRPM and I can see Boston's defense completely take an ugly turn with Kyrie and him on the floor.

Anyways, I feel like Doncic is going to be a better defender in the NBA, not because of his lateral quickness, but for his great basketball IQ, defensive awareness and his ability and willingness to switch against bigger guys.

Yes, both of them are roughly the same size, Hayward is probably a it bigger right now, but Doncic doesn't give up when he is overmatched in the post, he doesn't give up size and his anticipation is excellent.

If he bulks up properly and he will, I can see him defending 1-4 pretty effectively.. I don't see him as a negative on defense because of his athletic ability.

[reanimator]

Like mentioned above, the main thing with Doncic is that his floor seems extremly high. Once his body fully develops, i think it's hard of him being worse than say Gordon Hayward with better passing and probably better rebounding. I mean that's a really really high floor, and basically a surefire max player.

His floor from a production stand point (not stylistic) is closer to Nic Batum IMO.

Hayward put up 21 ppg on 60 TS% and has a pull up plus a degree of verticality around the rim that I don't know that Doncic will achieve. Also a pretty decent defender.

Hayward is not a decent defender and I don't see how he maintains the same level of play this year.
he has a negative DRPM and I can see Boston's defense completely take an ugly turn with Kyrie and him on the floor.

Anyways, I feel like Doncic is going to be a better defender in the NBA, not because of his lateral quickness, but for his great basketball IQ, defensive awareness and his ability and willingness to switch against bigger guys.

Yes, both of them are roughly the same size, Hayward is probably a it bigger right now, but Doncic doesn't give up when he is overmatched in the post, he doesn't give up size and his anticipation is excellent.

If he bulks up properly and he will, I can see him defending 1-4 pretty effectively.. I don't see him as a negative on defense because of his athletic ability.

Hayward's DRPM is essentially 0. Better than Klay Thompson, for example, who I think is fine.

When Hayward was Doncic's age. He was a super skinny 190 lb kid. Their physical development is on a whole different trajectory with Doncic being closer to maxed out.

And I see no way in hell Doncic can guard either guard slot effectively.

[KqWIN]

I can see why people would compare Hayward to Doncic, but Hayward was a different type of player coming into the league and also had a much different physical profile. Hayward was a skinny, run and jump athlete when he first started out in the league. Anyone who thought he wasn't a great athlete was mistaken. Over time he gained a ton of muscle mass. I'd go as far to say that he his added strength has made him into one of the best athletes in the league in terms of useful athleticism. As much as he improved his body, his skill level improved just as muchHis ball handling, playmaking, and shooting off the dribble come a LONG way since he was a rookie.

Doncic is different. He's not the run and jump athlete Hayward is, but he looks to have much more strength and balance. His body is much more developed. His skill level is obviously much higher than Hayward and is overall the more NBA ready player. Having said that, I don't agree with people that say that leads to a lower ceiling. Steph Curry has showed that there is no limit to the level of skill you can achieve. You can always keep getting better and better.

[Mirotic12]

Doncic is now back to playing at a more serious level of European basketball than EuroBasket, which is a watered down poor man's version of good European club basketball.

In the Spanish Supercup, Real Madrid (Doncic's team) lost to Gran Canaria (a Spanish team that plays in Europe's 2nd level league, the EuroCup), 73 to 64, and they were eliminated from the tournament.

Doncic had 6 points, 4 rebounds, and 1 assist in the game, in 23 minutes played. He was 1 for 6 from the field, and 1 for 5 from 3 point range.

http://www.acb.com/fichas/SCOPA18002.php

[XTraderXL]

Doncic is now back to playing at a more serious level of European basketball than EuroBasket, which is a watered down poor man's version of good European club basketball.

In the Spanish Supercup, Real Madrid (Doncic's team) lost to Gran Canaria (a Spanish team that plays in Europe's 2nd level league, the EuroCup), 73 to 64, and they were eliminated from the tournament.

Doncic had 6 points, 4 rebounds, and 1 assist in the game, in 23 minutes played. He was 1 for 6 from the field, and 1 for 5 from 3 point range.

http://www.acb.com/fichas/SCOPA18002.php

Come on man. You really think Gran Canaria is a better team than Latvia, France, Spain, Serbia...??? You are making a fool of yourself.

Besides, Slovenian NT players were drinking and partying from Sunday to Tuesday and Doncic had one light practice before the game. A few hours before the game they didnt even know if he will be able to play in the evening with that sprained ankle which he injured just 5 days ago.
Randolph had an even poorer game than Doncic and he did not get hurt.
A couple of months ago you were saying how good Campazzo is. Well, yesterday he was terrible. Does that one game mean he cant play at this level?
And at least you could get his stats correct, he was 2/6 from the field not 1/6. Its not so hard to get it right mate...

If I didnt know better, I would say you are trolling.

[tundraknight]

Is Manu Ginobili a good comparison for Luka Doncic?

[Stackey]

Is Manu Ginobili a good comparison for Luka Doncic?

By many Ginobili is seen as a best white SG ever, so pretty much every talented SG is compared to him.

I'm not sure Doncic will ever be good scorer as much as Manu. I mean, If he played in some weaker NBA teams Ginobili would have 20 + ppg for years.

But Luka is far better rebounder.

[Bob8]

Remember that debate we had here about Dragic before? Myself and some others here said he would be nothing more than an average player in EuroLeague. We took a ton of heat for that from NBA fans. but reality is reality. He's a lot like Giannis and Rubio - totally needs NBA rules and reffing to be effective.

I almost lost slovenian citizenship because of that debate.

Dragic didn't do anything in Fiba basketball, clubs or national team, only bright spot is Eurobasket in Slovenia. He had 1 more good WC but Slovenia didn't do anything, so... We will see how Doncic and Dragic will play in Eurobasket. But it will be very funny to see if Doncic will be better than top 10 Nba point guard.

But let's say he's far the best Pg in Europe, but you would not find strange if Doncic will be better in Eurobasket? 18 years kid better than top 10 NBA Pg and they're playing in the same team? If that happens Doncic is the best prospect since LeBron or Dragic simply is not that good. I'm afraid second opinion is much more realistic.

I don't think he would be a star at all. Heurtel is basically a less athletic version of Dragic (but it's not a big difference athletically)....... But Heurtel is a way better shooter than Dragic is. Which is absolutely vital for a point guard in EuroLeague. And Huertel always starts to struggle every time the playoffs start, because in more intense physicality and defense, that kind of game does not work as well. I think Dragic would be Heurtel with a worse jumper.

This thread truly is pure comedy gold. The whole summer long some posters like Mirotic and Bob were vehemently arguing that Dragic just can’t play FIBA basketball and how he’s not any better than an avarage Euro player like Thomas Heuertel. A good month later Dragic sits atop of Europe as a champion and an MVP.

Now how can you take seriously anything some in this thread have to say about Doncic or European basketball in general, when they were absolutely abysmal at evaluating an existing Euro-NBA player. It’s quite obvious that some here don’t even watch NBA basketball and thus can’t be taken seriously when they talk about players who play there.

Doncic had an excellent tournament and his draft stock is rising rapidly. But he also played next to an MVP who drew a whole lot of defensive attention and gave Doncic plenty of space to operate. Slovenia played great ball, but looking at some game film, it was a lot of Dragic making really tough shots from all over the court even when defense did a great job against him. He was definitely on another level. That’s a level you just don’t see in Europe and that’s a level Doncic saw on court for the first time when he played with Dragic.

But that’s also a level you see at almost every NBA game during the season. That’s the main point here. The 10 best EuroBasket scorers are all current NBA players or were NBA players in Shved’s and Shengelia’s case.

What we can say for certain about Doncic is that he’s probably the only player in the next draft class who’s pretty much bust-proof. He’ll be good, how good is anyone’s guess. There’re still areas he has to improve in if he wants to become an efficient NBA player. But he does too many things too well not to be at the very least a very good starter or a borderline All-Star. Projecting Doncic is just so incredibly tough because we really can’t compare him to anyone, in Europe or the States. He really is an incredibly unique player. A lot depends on who will draft him and how they will use him.

Not a single bench player in NBA is as good as Sergio Llull and Vassilis Spanoulis.

When Spanoulis had his Rockets NBA adventure, he couldn’t even take minutes away from John Lucas III. Keep them laughs coming dude.

We will have to decide, if one great tournament, 9 games, makes a player great? Because Dragic in his previous Eurobaskets was not even close to what he did this year. His Eurobasket numbers are,
5.4 ppg 2007, 9.2 ppg 2009, 11.7 2011 and 15.8 2013. Doncic with his 14.3/8.1 and a gold medal as a 18 year old rookie. And if 1 tournament is enough, than Doncic is clear #1. If you really was watching Eurobasket then you have seen that Doncic was at least equal than Dragic against Greece and better than Dragic in crucial games against Latvia and Spain. Dragic was great in first half against Serbia, but totally disappeared in last Q, where have brought gold medal to Slovenia, Prepelic, Blazic, Randolph and Vidmar.

[UcanUwill]

Is Manu Ginobili a good comparison for Luka Doncic?

Manu was way more athletic. Doncic is more well rounded. He is closer to Pierce probably IMO.

[UcanUwill]

We will have to decide, if one great tournament, 9 games, makes a player great? Because Dragic in his previous Eurobaskets was not even close to what he did this year. His Eurobasket numbers are,
5.4 ppg 2007, 9.2 ppg 2009, 11.7 2011 and 15.8 2013. Doncic with his 14.3/8.1 and a gold medal as a 18 year old rookie. And if 1 tournament is enough, than Doncic is clear #1. If you really was watching Eurobasket then you have seen that Doncic was at least equal than Dragic against Greece and better than Dragic in crucial games against Latvia and Spain. Dragic was great in first half against Serbia, but totally disappeared in last Q, where have brought gold medal to Slovenia, Prepelic, Blazic, Randolph and Vidmar.

Dragic's inconsistent jumper always held him back, spacing is incredibly important in FIBA. Much greater NBA sample size showed that his shooting is much improved, it was just a matter of time when he figures it out, hes an NBA star for a reason. What Doncic was doing at age 18 is just insane and not comparable

[Goon]

Spoiler:

Remember that debate we had here about Dragic before? Myself and some others here said he would be nothing more than an average player in EuroLeague. We took a ton of heat for that from NBA fans. but reality is reality. He's a lot like Giannis and Rubio - totally needs NBA rules and reffing to be effective.

I almost lost slovenian citizenship because of that debate.

Dragic didn't do anything in Fiba basketball, clubs or national team, only bright spot is Eurobasket in Slovenia. He had 1 more good WC but Slovenia didn't do anything, so... We will see how Doncic and Dragic will play in Eurobasket. But it will be very funny to see if Doncic will be better than top 10 Nba point guard.

But let's say he's far the best Pg in Europe, but you would not find strange if Doncic will be better in Eurobasket? 18 years kid better than top 10 NBA Pg and they're playing in the same team? If that happens Doncic is the best prospect since LeBron or Dragic simply is not that good. I'm afraid second opinion is much more realistic.

I don't think he would be a star at all. Heurtel is basically a less athletic version of Dragic (but it's not a big difference athletically)....... But Heurtel is a way better shooter than Dragic is. Which is absolutely vital for a point guard in EuroLeague. And Huertel always starts to struggle every time the playoffs start, because in more intense physicality and defense, that kind of game does not work as well. I think Dragic would be Heurtel with a worse jumper.

This thread truly is pure comedy gold. The whole summer long some posters like Mirotic and Bob were vehemently arguing that Dragic just can’t play FIBA basketball and how he’s not any better than an avarage Euro player like Thomas Heuertel. A good month later Dragic sits atop of Europe as a champion and an MVP.

Now how can you take seriously anything some in this thread have to say about Doncic or European basketball in general, when they were absolutely abysmal at evaluating an existing Euro-NBA player. It’s quite obvious that some here don’t even watch NBA basketball and thus can’t be taken seriously when they talk about players who play there.

Doncic had an excellent tournament and his draft stock is rising rapidly. But he also played next to an MVP who drew a whole lot of defensive attention and gave Doncic plenty of space to operate. Slovenia played great ball, but looking at some game film, it was a lot of Dragic making really tough shots from all over the court even when defense did a great job against him. He was definitely on another level. That’s a level you just don’t see in Europe and that’s a level Doncic saw on court for the first time when he played with Dragic.

But that’s also a level you see at almost every NBA game during the season. That’s the main point here. The 10 best EuroBasket scorers are all current NBA players or were NBA players in Shved’s and Shengelia’s case.

What we can say for certain about Doncic is that he’s probably the only player in the next draft class who’s pretty much bust-proof. He’ll be good, how good is anyone’s guess. There’re still areas he has to improve in if he wants to become an efficient NBA player. But he does too many things too well not to be at the very least a very good starter or a borderline All-Star. Projecting Doncic is just so incredibly tough because we really can’t compare him to anyone, in Europe or the States. He really is an incredibly unique player. A lot depends on who will draft him and how they will use him.

Not a single bench player in NBA is as good as Sergio Llull and Vassilis Spanoulis.

When Spanoulis had his Rockets NBA adventure, he couldn’t even take minutes away from John Lucas III. Keep them laughs coming dude.

Great post man! After pages and pages of losing hope, there's a light in here after all! Haha.

PS: If Bob8 stops smacking smiley faces in his every post I'll buy him a cookie. I'm as big of a Doncic fan as you can find but like some posts are extreme against Doncic, you take it to the xtreme in the other directions. Umir se no.

[SportsGuy8]

Dragic was upswinging a bit during this Eurobasket, but even if we take that into consideration, he still proved he would be the best player in Europe/Euroleague right now. Anyone who's at least a borderline All-Star in the NBA would pretty much dominate the European leagues, even if the rules don't suit them.

Doncic is now back to playing at a more serious level of European basketball than EuroBasket, which is a watered down poor man's version of good European club basketball.

In the Spanish Supercup, Real Madrid (Doncic's team) lost to Gran Canaria (a Spanish team that plays in Europe's 2nd level league, the EuroCup), 73 to 64, and they were eliminated from the tournament.

Doncic had 6 points, 4 rebounds, and 1 assist in the game, in 23 minutes played. He was 1 for 6 from the field, and 1 for 5 from 3 point range.

http://www.acb.com/fichas/SCOPA18002.php

Are you seriously trying to use a game that Doncic played just a few days after injuring an ankle and winning the Eurobasket, something that was surely absolutely draining both physically and emotionally ... to prove your point?

If you think that's fair, then it's even much, MUCH more fair for someone to say that Spanoulis and the whole European basketball sucks because of how he fared in the NBA. And that was a whole season, not just a single game.

Just think about that.

[Chi town]

Best thing about Luka is his hyper competitive nature. I've never seen that level of intensity from an 18 year old. THis is why I think he s going to be a superstar.

[blazeyo]

His floor from a production stand point (not stylistic) is closer to Nic Batum IMO.

Hayward put up 21 ppg on 60 TS% and has a pull up plus a degree of verticality around the rim that I don't know that Doncic will achieve. Also a pretty decent defender.

Hayward is not a decent defender and I don't see how he maintains the same level of play this year.
he has a negative DRPM and I can see Boston's defense completely take an ugly turn with Kyrie and him on the floor.

Anyways, I feel like Doncic is going to be a better defender in the NBA, not because of his lateral quickness, but for his great basketball IQ, defensive awareness and his ability and willingness to switch against bigger guys.

Yes, both of them are roughly the same size, Hayward is probably a it bigger right now, but Doncic doesn't give up when he is overmatched in the post, he doesn't give up size and his anticipation is excellent.

If he bulks up properly and he will, I can see him defending 1-4 pretty effectively.. I don't see him as a negative on defense because of his athletic ability.

Hayward's DRPM is essentially 0. Better than Klay Thompson, for example, who I think is fine.

When Hayward was Doncic's age. He was a super skinny 190 lb kid. Their physical development is on a whole different trajectory with Doncic being closer to maxed out.

And I see no way in hell Doncic can guard either guard slot effectively.

Who says Doncic has to guard the PG 1 on 1? I can see a team playing with Doncic at a 1 adopting a defense that uses him as a switch defender. He isn't playing in the early 2000's, perhaps back then it wouldn't be a viable tactic just because teams barely shot any 3's so scoring in the post was a more efficient shot.

But now that the game has evolved into a 3pt shooting contest, I can't see how having him switch on to the screener is a net negative move. Especially that the biggest reason to not switch, is the disadvantage that it creates for the team in terms of rebounding, but since Doncic is such a good rebounder, it becomes much less of a problem.

Obviously you need to put him in a lineup that has a good mobile defender at the 4/5 for best results.

[UcanUwill]

I think his defensive woes are greatly exaggerated. He is not nearly as bad as some fear.