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Political Roundtable Part XV

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#721 » by montestewart » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:21 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:The sickening thing is that he never had an alternative to Obamacare. It was pure anti-Obama. That's not a way for a grown person to act - much less the President. What I'm trying to say is - He's a piece of garbage. I'm not trying to convince anyone - I'm venting, because I don't understand the level of stupidity it took for so many people to vote for him. And the Hillary excuse doesn't begin to cut it - never did and never will. And this is no joke - every day could be our last.


i think his big ball policies have legs. no matter how many warts his small ball politics. its a compromise.

The small balls have warts, but there's no stopping the bigs balls. The medicated ointment of American greatness is just what the doctor ordered.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#722 » by Zonkerbl » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:03 am

stilldropin20 wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:Just for the record, credit dried up in the early 20th Century because we were still on the gold standard. Gold is an internationally traded commodity and has highly volatile prices, which makes basing your currency on it extremely stupid, since the availability of credit will depend crucially on the latest trends in gold prices. We know better than that now and use internationally accepted currencies issued by a strong, politically independent central bank that strictly regulates the trading price of the currency so that credit markets can be more stable. I don't care if this contradicts your previously held jewish conspiracy bs ideas - I'm a professional economist and I have spoken. Believe other idiot ideas if you must to feel better about your worthless life but this is the truth.


whats up with the "jewish" thing? been brought up twice now. and not by me nor was their any labeling from me at any point. I said rothschild banking cartel. whether or not they are jewish is irrelevant. They are indeed a major player in the ruling class, though.

i'm not an economist nor anything close and just a lay person. Not my area of expertise and I am very open to learning more about this. I have extensively studied the history of modern bank from the shekel to gold to the tally stick, to the goldsmith(who discovered and created the modern basis for fractional reserve lending), to a gold back note, to the central banking system based on gold and then based on government issued bonds.

so please: educate us. thoroughly. Because at the beginning and end of the line is ultimately, the money supply. Any given micro and macro and global economy kinda determines everything else, right? "he who has the most gold makes the rules." "follow the money." so please, educate us as to where we are, how we got here, and where we are headed.


Um, no?

My time is valuable, and the things you are asking are things that are normally taught by a professional who is getting paid for his or her time. If you're genuinely interested in these things, go take a class. If you can't afford that the next best thing is to look up my profile on Quora, I've literally answered all these questions and more there.

https://www.quora.com/profile/Stefan-Osborne

https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-well-supported-results-that-economists-are-in-consensus-about-that-would-be-surprising-and-significant-to-a-layman/answer/Stefan-Osborne?srid=3BB0
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#723 » by Zonkerbl » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:12 am

And we Jews have been around and we know anti-Semitic conspiracy bs when we hear it. Trust me - the "Rothschild banking cartel" conspiracy theory is straight out of the Nazi propaganda playbook. If you don't know, now you know.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#724 » by Zonkerbl » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:14 am

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#725 » by Zonkerbl » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:26 am

Here's what the anti-defamation league has to say about the Rothschild silliness:

https://www.adl.org/education/resources/backgrounders/jewish-control-of-the-federal-reserve-a-classic-anti-semitic-myth
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#726 » by stilldropin20 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:26 am

Ruzious wrote:SD, you know you're flat out lying. No bill was discussed more on the Senate floor and in Congress. But it was the GOP's goal to stop anything and everything on Obama's agenda. Every effort was made to let EVERYONE have their say on it, and it had hundreds of changes made to it because of that. Once the Republicans realized that it was eventually going to pass, they chose to throw their hands up in the air and chose to make it partisan, and they already made plans to run against it in the next elections. Everything they did was obstructionist. So what did you expect the Dems to do - say... Ok, we won't f'n pass it? Really? That's why we f'n are where we f'n are.


i forgot to add something earlier in haste.

And i'm going to call a bit of pants on fire in your post. 2008-2009 dems had super majority 60 and passed the bill with 60. and majority in the house. due to super majority There was little to nothing bi-partisan about the bill. senate made changes, passed the bill, kicked it back to the house and pelosi screwed the pooch with changes instead of just passing it as it was . ted kennedy died and lost a run off to a republican. back to just a majority at 59. and the bill needing to go back to the senate.

GOP did fillibuster cuz they didn't like the bill. just like dems have doing all year 2017. not saying its right. just calling it for what it is. but the dems should have given the GOP something(anything!!) in 2010 to get this passed bipartisan. I mean, they needed 1 effing vote to make it "more legit" Where was john Mccain then? Too butthurt from the whooping obama put on him? lol. So, Instead Reid changed the rules and went nuclear 51 votes instead of engaging the GOP with anything kind of serious compromise. The nuclear option up until then was strictly for budget and cabinet appointees. Not major legislation. This was dirty. Thats as dirty as you can go. Since then? we go nuclear whenever. wasn't that long ago you needed 67 in the Senate. now 51!!??? methinks we screwed the pooch with that precedent-which might end up being the "real legacy" about the 2010 ACA .

so to say dems were playing at "fair and just" and GOP was being obstructionists is about as rediculous as you could go.

I mean they had the super 60 and had the house. Pelosi just couldn't get the new changes signed and kennedy had already died and in the run off they lost a seat to a republican. going nuclear for the first time for this type of major legislation, Mitch mcconnell said at the time is going to "come back to haunt the dems at some point." for better or worse, that point is now. And that's why the Dems are panicking. thats why the media is panicking. thats why obama admin surveilled. the got the house, the senate at 51 and the option to go nuclear on a whims notice. and in their mind's they have a mad man running on all kinds incendiary campaign promises and they are scerrrred ****. can't blame them. I'd be scerred to. He's petualnt for sure. Hold's a grudge. and has an ax to grind with Obama. Which brings me back to Obama's arrogance. I have to think that he really wishes he didn't stoop to trumps level at the dinner and roast the hell out of him. That clearly put Trump on a mission.

let me add again that I voted for Obama in that election. and I was as excited as anyone to have the super 60 and and the house!! I honestly though we were going to change the world! And honestly? nothing happened. we ended up stuck in the mud of a nasty recession for the entire Obama regime. a full 8 year recession. they had the house and senate and could get us out of that recession. Didn't even get close until the very end of his 8th year. I still voted for him again in 2012. by then the political capital had been spent on the ACA which I'd hardly call a even a mild success given the not insignificant tweaks it needs to work. keep in mind, I'm a doctor. If more people are insured, i'm suppose to make more money. Never happened. super high deductibles and weak economy is actually preventing people from "using" their insurance is what we find in the actual market place. And I'm the expert here, Zonker. :wink: maybe with a stronger economy now, we'll see american willing to pay those $5k-$10k deductions that used to be $500-$1000. We'll see.

But the ACA? a legacy legislation? yeah sure. it was passed and signed by the president without a single GOP vote from either House or Senate. 100% partisan vote is hardly a good idea for a legacy piece.

I'm not sure what happened in that 2010 New England run off for Kennedy's seat. But if anything, I'm guessing the arrogance of the DNC and Obama likley led to this whole mess. Not unlike the recent run-offs where dems have been losing to Trump backed candidates. trump may be many things but lazy isn't one of them. That old ass man puts in more work than anyone ive seen in the office in my entire life. they likely didn't take that run off election serious enough like they still dont right now...with candidates that never even lived in the damn districts yet still blew $50M on the election to try to get some badly needed seats back. But I'm just spit-balling on that. i truly dont recall what happened in that run off in 2010.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#727 » by DCZards » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:40 am

CobraCommander wrote:I love it here...but I'm from here. I would assume if your home isnt wartorn you would have the same calling to be happy in your homeland (this last statement is an assumption based on how i love the DMV more than anywhere on earth...but i dont know why..the weather sucks - sometimes, the crime is REAL--we dont BS here. you can get Murk'd quick of a accidental grit, the city is small, the suburbs are sprawling, the traffic is horrible, the housing market is stagnant when compared to some of the other parts of the country, did i mention the traffic sucks...but we got gogo, the warf, the mall, the green line, the wizards, skins and capitals - what else do we have here again??


Yup…love me some DMV. Moved here from NYC for college and stayed. It’s a near-perfect fit for my family and I. Here’s some great things about the DMV to add to your list: Nats baseball, ethnic and cultural diversity, the red line, great restaurants, Rock Creek Park, highly educated population, museums.

I don't have a problem with the weather. My mom, brother and sister live in Phoenix but I prefer our area's change of seasons to the desert life.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#728 » by stilldropin20 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:56 am

Zonkerbl wrote:And we Jews have been around and we know anti-Semitic conspiracy bs when we hear it. Trust me - the "Rothschild banking cartel" conspiracy theory is straight out of the Nazi propaganda playbook. If you don't know, now you know.


No offense but i dont believe in modern religion or ancient religions. none of them. for me, every damn one of them is a bunch of hogwash meant to control the proletariat. and some people find them useful. good for them. and good for you. Thats my belief system and i have every right to it as you do yours.

So long as you respect my beliefs, i respect yours. and even when people dont respect my beliefs and still respect their right to believe whatever they want.

I believe the wealthy ruling class has been using everything: media, policy, religion, etc. to control the masses. so i dont care if the rothschilds are jewish or muslim. i see oligarchs like them in a separate category. A ton. they are real, ya know? I see them, the same I see the Kochs, the Bush's, The clintons, the apples, the googles, the facebooks, and yes even the trumps. They all represent the ruling class both ancient and new. they all run ****. everything. their money ultimately shapes the entire world's political landscape. In defense of the global ruling class, things could be much worse. so in that regard, i do believe that they have done at lease a somewhat responsible job if not a mostly responsible job.



And I've been around long enough to know when someone is crossing a disgusting line, peddling some rediculous racists labeling. Nothing Ive said deserves that type of BS. so if your sensibilities have been "triggered" I apologize. but pretty please lighten up lets just move on.
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#729 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:02 am

UcanUwill wrote:Can I ask completely unrelated question. I am completely ignorant on the subject, so its a genuine question. Why everyone wants to replace Obamacare, what is so wrong with that bill?

Obama is a black man. When he was [POTUS] a whole lot of people really hated him. Particularly Donald Trump.

Okay, the premiums cost some people a lot of money, and it's hard for a small businessmen to hire employees without going under paying for the health care.

But the media in America made Obama a villain so that there could be an upheaval; and a lot of people would (subsequently) vote Republican.

[Had] Obama been a white man named George Bush they'd love Bush care.

The Wizards shoukd have drafted Derik Queen

I told you so :banghead:
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#730 » by stilldropin20 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:49 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Can I ask completely unrelated question. I am completely ignorant on the subject, so its a genuine question. Why everyone wants to replace Obamacare, what is so wrong with that bill?

Obama is a black man. When he was the present a whole lot of people really hated him. Particularly Donald Trump.

Okay the premiums cost some people lot of money and it's hard for a small businessmen to hire employees without going under paying for the health care.

But the media in America made Obama a villain so that there could be an upheaval in a lot of people would vote Republican.

How did Obama been a white man named George Bush they'd love Bush care.



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Obama entered office in 2008(edit: jan 2009-duh, i assumed everyone knew what i meant here) with as much political capital as anyone to ever enter the office. The entire democratic platform was juiced and riding his coat tails. he entered with a super majority in the senate (60!!)and the house! He was so damn good at being a politician that he could have spoon fed the american public dogshxt and they would have eaten for at least 6 months before they even questioned it. thats the type of political capital he had. the country was pumped! I was pumped. I was in the Pritzker house that winter for the christmas party. barry was there. Everyone was there. it might have been the greatest night of my life up until that point.

unfortunately, he was hit with a massive banking collapse and spun his wheels on the ACA. The political capital was mostly spent by 2010 due to the horrific recession following the banking crisis.

Obama was at the helm and at least he got us through that collapse and recession? And I applaud him for that. But the ugliest and most disgusting transfer of wealth occured in those years. Poor and middle class folks lost there jobs and then their homes and "ruling class" guys like warren buffet were allowed to buy their houses directly (en masse) from the banks that were selling them off for pennies on the dollar. Obama should have stopped that transfer of wealth. and he should have squeezed the crap out of the banks, even nationalized them for however short or long a period of time if necessary cuz they made (or bought in the secondary market) the damn bad loans to begin with. Obama swung and missed on this. big time. nothing to do with the color of his skin.

but here's the rub. I dont think the US government has the global fortitude to stand up to the international banking cartel and their central banks. If I'm right,(and Zonker is wrong) I think they'd crush us if Obama tried. Im not sure which is the tail and which is the dog. they would dry up our credit markets until we starved and fill our "enemies" plush with cash to take us over. and if not? If Zonker is right and the US governement is the dog and the banking system the tail, then why didn't Obama squeeze the shxt out of them when they could NOT pay their debts when AIG and a ton of investment banks were about to be insolvent or file for corporate Bankruptcy which would have crushed the "big 3." who held too much of their debt. Chase, BoA, and Citi. They would have fallen just the same. if the dog wags the tail then Obama should have let them fail, issued greenbacks to keep the money supply flowing. And then subsequently negotiated out from under our massive 10Trillion in debt right then and there. Thats what should have happened. And Obama would have been not only a hero in the USA, but the Globe over.

instead he made them even bigger. too big to fail. and allowed them to smallow up the smaller investment banks for pennies on the dollar. talk about corporate welfare.
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#731 » by Kanyewest » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:33 am

The Democrats were only fillibuster proof for a grand total of 5 months. And a large portion of it came during the summer recess when Congress was on recess from July-August.
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#732 » by DCZards » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:17 am

Kanyewest wrote:The Democrats were only fillibuster proof for a grand total of 5 months. And a large portion of it came during the summer recess when Congress was on recess from July-August.


Seems like a lot of people want to forget--or ignore--that reality. They prefer saying "Why didn't Obama do more when the Dems held both the House and Senate?"

Fact is, in the short window that Obama and the Dems had control of the government they bailed out the auto industry, passed a stimulus package that many people believe helped us avoid a deep recession, and put into law the long overdue principal that healthcare should be a right and not a privilege.
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#733 » by cammac » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:20 am

stilldropin20 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Can I ask completely unrelated question. I am completely ignorant on the subject, so its a genuine question. Why everyone wants to replace Obamacare, what is so wrong with that bill?

Obama is a black man. When he was the present a whole lot of people really hated him. Particularly Donald Trump.

Okay the premiums cost some people lot of money and it's hard for a small businessmen to hire employees without going under paying for the health care.

But the media in America made Obama a villain so that there could be an upheaval in a lot of people would vote Republican.

How did Obama been a white man named George Bush they'd love Bush care.



Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app


Obama entered office in 2008 with as much political capital as anyone to ever enter the office. The entire democratic platform was juiced and riding his coat tails. he entered with a super majority in the senate (60!!)and the house! He was so damn good at being a politician that he could have spoon fed the american public dogshxt and they would have eaten for at least 6 months before they even questioned it. thats the type of political capital he had. the country was pumped! I was pumped. I was in the Pritzker house that winter for the christmas party. barry was there. Everyone was there. it might have been the greatest night of my life up until that point.

unfortunately, he was hit with a massive banking collapse and spun his wheels on the ACA. The political capital was mostly spent by 2010 due to the horrific recession following the banking crisis.

Obama was at the helm and at least he got us through that collapse and recession? And I applaud him for that. But the ugliest and most disgusting transfer of wealth occured in those years. Poor and middle class folks lost there jobs and then their homes and "ruling class" guys like warren buffet were allowed to buy their houses directly (en masse) from the banks that were selling them off for pennies on the dollar. Obama should have stopped that transfer of wealth. and he should have squeezed the crap out of the banks, even nationalized them for however short or long a period of time if necessary cuz they made (or bought in the secondary market) the damn bad loans to begin with. Obama swung and missed on this. big time. nothing to do with the color of his skin.

but here's the rub. I dont think the US government has the global fortitude to stand up to the international banking cartel and their central banks. If I'm right,(and Zonker is wrong) I think they'd crush us if Obama tried. Im not sure which is the tail and which is the dog. they would dry up our credit markets until we starved and fill our "enemies" plush with cash to take us over. and if not? If Zonker is right and the US governement is the dog and the banking system the tail, then why didn't Obama squeeze the shxt out of them when they could NOT pay their debts when AIG and a ton of investment banks were about to be insolvent or file for corporate Bankruptcy which would have crushed the "big 3." who held too much of their debt. Chase, BoA, and Citi. They would have fallen just the same. if the dog wags the tail then Obama should have let them fail, issued greenbacks to keep the money supply flowing. And then subsequently negotiated out from under our massive 10Trillion in debt right then and there. Thats what should have happened. And Obama would have been not only a hero in the USA, but the Globe over.

instead he made them even bigger. too big to fail. and allowed them to smallow up the smaller investment banks for pennies on the dollar. talk about corporate welfare.


I'm really sorry but you are full of crap even a Canadian knows that Obama inherited the mess from Bush and he didn't become President until January 2009. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
The direct cause was that Republicans had loosened Bank Regulations to the extent financial markets became the wild west. Some countries had zero bank problems because of tough regulations Canada, Australia & NZ to name 3. In the aftermath the British Government hired Mark Carney a head of the Bank of England to straighten out banking policy at the time he was head of the Bank of Canada.

Excuse me for putting in a full newspaper article but its ancient history but needed to refute SD20 in detail

George W. Bush
43rd President of the United States from January 2001 to January 2009
Nick Mathiason

Sunday 28 December 2008 00.01 GMT
First published on Sunday 28 December 2008 00.01 GMT

It was the year the neo-liberal economic orthodoxy that ran the world for 30 years suffered a heart attack of epic proportions. Not since 1929 has the financial community witnessed 12 months like it. Lehman Brothers went bankrupt. Merrill Lynch, AIG, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, HBOS, Royal Bank of Scotland, Bradford & Bingley, Fortis, Hypo and Alliance & Leicester all came within a whisker of doing so and had to be rescued.

Western leaders, who for years boasted about the self-evident benefits of light-touch regulation, had to sink trillions of dollars to prevent the world bank system collapsing.

The ramifications of the Banking Collapse of 2008 will be felt for years if not decades to come. Here, Observer writers pick out the three pivotal weeks that shaped a year of unforgettable and remarkable events.

Week one: 9-15 March

For the first two months of the year, there was an eerie calm. By the end of February, all was quiet save for global banks routinely updating queasy investors over the tens of billions of dollars they had lost by fuelling the madness we now know as the debt catastrophe.

At the start of the year, a global economic meltdown still seemed unimaginable to many. Even Rupert Murdoch's economic brain Irwin Stelzer refused to countenance that the financial world was spinning off its axis, suspending judgment until a $150bn tax rebate by George Bush announced in January - equivalent to $1,000 for every American household - worked its way through the system. If by May that didn't stem a freefall in US consumer confidence, rising unemployment and plunging house prices, then he argued, perhaps we were in trouble.

But, during the first two months of the year, a lingering belief remained that perhaps the vicious economic hurricane might blow itself out before it hit the real world. That changed during the week beginning 9 March, seven days in which the real storm broke and swept away some of the biggest and most revered names in international finance.
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It began on Sunday evening with an unbelievable personal fall from grace and ended with the most spectacular American banking collapse seen in decades.

Late that night, Eliot Spitzer, New York governor and the scourge of Wall Street banks, called his closest aides. The former New York attorney-general, who did more than anyone to prosecute bulge-bracket banks following the scandalous fin de siècle ramping up of internet stocks, admitted he had been caught on a wire tap confirming plans to a young woman to join him in a private room at the so-called Emperors' Club where New York's wealthy elite bed prostitutes.

As the once proud defender of the people against the excesses of capitalism sank into the quicksand, financial storm clouds swiftly gathered overhead.
Business Today: sign up for a morning shot of financial news
Read more

The following day, Blackstone Group, manager of the world's biggest buyout fund, revealed it had suffered a 90 per cent profit drop during its fourth quarter. Headed by New York society figure Stephen Schwarzman, Blackstone perhaps more than any firm exemplified the gung-ho leverage mania. In January, it was one of a small consortium of private equity firms that gambled $31.3bn to buy the world's biggest casino company, Harrah's.

Blackstone spent hundreds of billions of dollars on consumer and leisure firms as well as the betting on the latest investment craze: clean technology. Now its strategy was unravelling, placing the businesses it bought in serious jeopardy.

In Britain house-builder Bovis meekly warned that unless there was an urgent cut in interest rates, the property market would collapse. It was a message the Bank of England failed to heed until much later.

On Tuesday, there was blind panic on Wall Street. The US Federal Reserve injected $236bn (then, £117bn; now £152bn following the pound's collapse) into the American banking system. Few asked the question: would it be enough? Other central banks followed and Citigroup, the world's biggest bank, was forced to forked out £1bn to bail out six of its hedge funds. A process that would bring Wall Street and the world's banking system to its knees had begun.
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It meant that when Alistair Darling, in his first Budget, said the UK was well placed to withstand the effects of US turbulence, no one quite believed him. Darling's speech, in which he downgraded his growth forecasts, raised taxes and admitted the UK economy faced its biggest slowdown since Labour came to power, was effectively blown out of the water.

If there was hope that perhaps Thursday would bring a sense of calm, more news from America shattered that illusion. The most revered name in private equity, and for many an extension of American foreign policy, the Carlyle Group, admitted that one of its funds could not repay its debt. For every $1 of equity, the $22bn Carlyle Capital Corporation fund was leveraged with $32 of loans. In other words, it toppled over under the weight of unsustainable debt.

That day, the price of gold reached a record, trading at $1,000 an ounce. CCC's demise would not be the last big-name casualty.

In fact we had to wait just one day for the next one. As rumours over the health of Wall Street's fifth-largest investment bank prompted clients to pull their cash out of the institution, on Friday morning, New York time, Bear Stearns received an emergency bail-out from the Fed and JP Morgan Chase. It was America's Northern Rock moment. One of Wall Street's biggest names had all but gone under. Global equities dived. Venezuela opened oil contracts in euros to hedge against the dollar - a canny investment strategy - and the market started fearing for other big names. They would not have to wait very long.
NM

Week two: 14-20 September

On Sunday Federal Reserve and US Treasury officials met at the central bank's lower Manhattan base to hold tense talks with the chairmen of the biggest investment banks in the world. The goal was to secure a saviour for Lehman Brothers, America's fourth largest bank, ahead of the opening of Asian markets that evening.
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There was just one problem. Hank Paulson, the former Goldman Sachs chief who was US Treasury Secretary, refused to sweeten a Barclays or Bank of America takeover of Lehman's with public money. The two suitors edged away.

Lehman had spent the last five years amassing a huge commercial property loan book. It was a kingpin in securitising sub-prime debt. Its abrasive chairman and chief executive, Dick Fuld, had attempted to finesse a merger with the Korean Development Bank. But the Koreans walked.

Meanwhile Ken Lewis, Bank of America's boss, that night concluded a lightning-fast deal to take over Merrill Lynch. So began one of the most tumultuous weeks ever seen on Wall Street.

Glued to their BlackBerrys all weekend for the latest news, Lehman's 5,000 London staff turned up to work on Monday to find administrators from PricewaterhouseCoopers handing out leaflets at reception. They announced that their employer was bankrupt.

Lehman's London traders found they could not do business with counter-parties. New York had sucked the money back to base. London had been cut adrift. As the day continued, staff left Lehman's Docklands HQ carrying their belongings in boxes. The building became a stop on the London tourist trail.

That morning Chancellor Alistair Darling knew the Lehman effect would ripple far and wide. He held fraught talks with the Financial Services Authority's then chairman, Callum McCarthy, and Gordon Brown. Uppermost in their minds was concern over HBOS, the UK's biggest mortgage seller. That evening, Brown steered Lloyd TSB chairman Victor Blank into a quiet corner during a party. The prime minister said he would waive competition law to allow Lloyds to take over HBOS.

On Tuesday morning, Darling, McCarthy and Bank of England governor Mervyn King met to review the crisis. They decided HBOS directors had to be told that 'soldiering on wouldn't do'.
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Meanwhile, on the other side of the Atlantic, Ben Bernanke, the US Fed chief, was in a corner. The world's biggest insurance company, AIG, had seen its stock market value collapse. There were fears that if the firm, sponsor of Manchester United, were to go under it would bring the world banking system down. This was because AIG had transformed itself from a boring insurance company into one at the vanguard of the new credit default swap market. AIG was in the business of insuring leveraged debt just at the time when the financial system was on a precipice.

Bernanke knew that, unlike Lehman Brothers, he could not let AIG fail. He announced an $85bn (£46bn) emergency loan. It would not be the last time AIG got help.

In London, by Tuesday night, it was clear that HBOS was about to become the biggest UK victim of the financial crisis. Journalists became aware that both Lloyds and HSBC were prepared to step in.

On Wednesday morning, Gordon Brown became concerned that savers in HBOS would be spooked by relentlessly negative headlines. He asked the FSA to put out a statement saying that the former building society was 'well capitalised'. Minutes later BBC reporter Robert Peston pushed out the story that Lloyds was buying HBOS. On Thursday, a shattered-looking Andy Hornby, the HBOS chief executive announced the deal with his Lloyds counterpart.

For now, attention swung back to Wall Street. Rumours circulated that Goldman Sachs might be in trouble. So worried did regulators become that they slapped a temporary ban on short-selling of financial stocks to prevent shares falling further.

The week ended with Hank Paulson unveiling an audacious plan to inject hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayers' money to buy up toxic assets.
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Week three: 5-11 October

On Sunday, German chancellor Angela Merkel got the week off to an acrimonious start by promising to guarantee the accounts of all her countrymen's savers, destroying efforts to build a European concensus on a rescue strategy.

The next day, more than £90bn was wiped off the value of Britain's companies in the City's worst day of trading since Black Monday in 1987. Gordon Brown promised to do 'whatever it takes' to halt the panic. But that was only the start of a nerve-shattering week, in which the world's financial system came closer to absolute collapse than at any time since the 1930s.

Businesses up and down the country would later insist that in October, everything, 'fell off a cliff'; and this was the week it began. For Brown, it started with the first meeting of his National Economic Council - a gathering of senior ministers, styled as a war cabinet for the credit crunch. But not far away in the City, as rumours swirled around of an emergency taxpayer-backed rescue for Britain's battered banks, shares were plunging, losing almost 8 per cent of their value by the time the markets had closed.

A month after the ignominious collapse of Lehman Brothers, investors remained gripped by stomach-churning vertigo: the bankruptcy of the Wall Street giant forced traders everywhere to think the unthinkable - no firm, however venerable, was too good to fail.

In fact, plans for a bail-out were still sketchy; but the markets impose a timetable all of their own, and as the sell-off intensified, Treasury officials worked late into the night in Whitehall to fill in the details.

Britain was far from alone in grappling with financial panic. Thousands of miles away in Reykjavik, the Icelandic government was rushing through an emergency bill to take control of its collapsing banks, and sending out feelers to the International Monetary Fund about a potential emergency loan, as the credit crunch plunged the overheated Icelandic economy deep into the red.
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By Wednesday, Brown and Alistair Darling were ready to announce their £50bn bank bail-out. The day began with a 5am crisis meeting at Number 11 Downing Street to put the final touches to the 'recapitalisation' that Brown would then urge the rest of the world to emulate. At 19 minutes to 12, as Brown prepared for his first prime minister's questions since parliament's summer recess, his phone rang: it was Mervyn King, informing the prime minister that interest rates would be cut by half a percentage point, at noon, in a move co-ordinated with central banks around the world.

Like Brown, King had at times seemed caught on the back foot by the mounting financial and economic crisis of the summer and early autumn; but the Bank, too, was now ready to gallop into action. For Britain's borrowers, it marked the beginning of an unprecedented period of reductions, bringing rates down to 2 per cent, with another cutting spree expected in the New Year. The scale of October's internationally co-ordinated cut was unprecedented; but still the markets plunged.

Across the Atlantic, Hank Paulson, who was now in charge of America's response to the crisis, was desperately attempting to reassure millions of anxious voters that their savings were safe, in the face of scepticism from the financial markets about his $700bn 'Troubled Asset Relief Programme,' aimed at using taxpayers' cash to buy up toxic assets from endangered Wall Street institutions.

Also on Wednesday, the IMF kicked off its annual meeting in Washington with a warning that the world economy faced a painfully tough year. The next day, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the IMF's managing director, said he had prepared a $200bn war chest to lend to governments driven to financial crisis by the crunch, and could make cash available to struggling countries within a fortnight.

By Friday, as haggard-looking finance ministers from the G7 club of wealthy nations flew to Washington, the world's financial system was on the brink of disaster. Communiques from G7 finance ministers' meetings are usually several waffly pages long, with the pet subjects of different member-countries covered in carefully diplomatic language; but this time, they knew they had to offer some reassurance to a petrified financial world.
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Japanese delegates spoke with passion about their own 'lost decade' of debt and recession in the 1990s, and urged their counterparts from around the world to sign up for radical action. So keen was King for the finance ministers to deliver a clear message that he called on Elvis Presley, urging them to take, in the immortal words of the King, 'a little less conversation, a little more action'.

As if to underline the gravity of their task, the Dow Jones index hurtled an extraordinary 700 points down in early trading, then swung up into positive territory, to end up 'only' 128 points down on the day.

In between discussions at the US Treasury, chaired by the increasingly beleaguered Paulson, Alistair Darling was firming up the details of which banks would take how much from the Treasury's bail-out; and negotiating with the Icelandic government about the return of UK consumers' deposits in the banking sector.

The first draft of the G7 statement, produced by civil servants in the usual way, was ripped up and chucked out. Instead, finance ministers signed up to a pithy list of bullet points, pledging to unleash all the policy weapons at their disposal against the crisis. They promised to prop up banks with taxpayers' money where necessary, and use public funds to thaw out the frozen credit markets, and unblock the flow of much-needed cash to families and firms.

Frantic markets were reassured, at least at first, of the politicians' determination not to allow the crash of 2008 to bring the global financial system grinding to a halt. But after a week staring into the abyss, weary politicians knew they still faced a long, tough battle to prevent the world lurching into a new Great Depression.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#734 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:11 am

The POTUS declined on inviting the Golden Warriors to the White House.

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#735 » by Zonkerbl » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:04 am

stilldropin20 wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:And we Jews have been around and we know anti-Semitic conspiracy bs when we hear it. Trust me - the "Rothschild banking cartel" conspiracy theory is straight out of the Nazi propaganda playbook. If you don't know, now you know.


No offense but i dont believe in modern religion or ancient religions. none of them. for me, every damn one of them is a bunch of hogwash meant to control the proletariat. and some people find them useful. good for them. and good for you. Thats my belief system and i have every right to it as you do yours.

So long as you respect my beliefs, i respect yours. and even when people dont respect my beliefs and still respect their right to believe whatever they want.

I believe the wealthy ruling class has been using everything: media, policy, religion, etc. to control the masses. so i dont care if the rothschilds are jewish or muslim. i see oligarchs like them in a separate category. A ton. they are real, ya know? I see them, the same I see the Kochs, the Bush's, The clintons, the apples, the googles, the facebooks, and yes even the trumps. They all represent the ruling class both ancient and new. they all run ****. everything. their money ultimately shapes the entire world's political landscape. In defense of the global ruling class, things could be much worse. so in that regard, i do believe that they have done at lease a somewhat responsible job if not a mostly responsible job.



And I've been around long enough to know when someone is crossing a disgusting line, peddling some rediculous racists labeling. Nothing Ive said deserves that type of BS. so if your sensibilities have been "triggered" I apologize. but pretty please lighten up lets just move on.


Read the goddamn link I posted, you ignorant jerk.

And shut the hell up. Being ignorant doesn't excuse you.
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#736 » by verbal8 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:54 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Can I ask completely unrelated question. I am completely ignorant on the subject, so its a genuine question. Why everyone wants to replace Obamacare, what is so wrong with that bill?

Obama is a black man. When he was the present a whole lot of people really hated him. Particularly Donald Trump.

Okay the premiums cost some people lot of money and it's hard for a small businessmen to hire employees without going under paying for the health care.

But the media in America made Obama a villain so that there could be an upheaval in a lot of people would vote Republican.

How did Obama been a white man named George Bush they'd love Bush care.



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Essentially Obamacare is the national version of what Romney did in Massachusetts. I agree if it was called Romney care 95% of the rabid opposition would disappear.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#737 » by JWizmentality » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:05 pm

Fear, intimidation and threats NEVER stopped any protest. The movement will only grow. Dotard and white nationalists will learn that the hard way. #takeaknee.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#738 » by montestewart » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:29 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:And we Jews have been around and we know anti-Semitic conspiracy bs when we hear it. Trust me - the "Rothschild banking cartel" conspiracy theory is straight out of the Nazi propaganda playbook. If you don't know, now you know.


No offense but i dont believe in modern religion or ancient religions. none of them. for me, every damn one of them is a bunch of hogwash meant to control the proletariat. and some people find them useful. good for them. and good for you. Thats my belief system and i have every right to it as you do yours.

So long as you respect my beliefs, i respect yours. and even when people dont respect my beliefs and still respect their right to believe whatever they want.

I believe the wealthy ruling class has been using everything: media, policy, religion, etc. to control the masses. so i dont care if the rothschilds are jewish or muslim. i see oligarchs like them in a separate category. A ton. they are real, ya know? I see them, the same I see the Kochs, the Bush's, The clintons, the apples, the googles, the facebooks, and yes even the trumps. They all represent the ruling class both ancient and new. they all run ****. everything. their money ultimately shapes the entire world's political landscape. In defense of the global ruling class, things could be much worse. so in that regard, i do believe that they have done at lease a somewhat responsible job if not a mostly responsible job.



And I've been around long enough to know when someone is crossing a disgusting line, peddling some rediculous racists labeling. Nothing Ive said deserves that type of BS. so if your sensibilities have been "triggered" I apologize. but pretty please lighten up lets just move on.


Read the goddamn link I posted, you misinformed person.

And shut the hell up. Being misinformed doesn't excuse you.

Fixed. No need for name calling. You're doing a fine job responding without it, and educating other people (including me) along the way. Fight hatred and ignorance with LUV!

STD, the fact that you are (or at least claim to be) completely unaware of the historic connection between the old international bankers shtick and anti-Semitism doesn't say much for your vetting of information. Many of your arguments read like single source rehashes of extremist website no-source opinion one pagers. Makes sense to you, put it in your own words, and Walla Walla Washington, you can debate.

I've been waiting to hear some truther or flat earth stuff. That would be entertaining, but I hope Zonk et al don't waste too many of their brain cells responding there. I'll handle that. I have the numbers.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#739 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:14 pm

My posts which read like scrambled thoughts....

Moto G voice translation.

I'm well.

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#740 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:14 pm

Having said that I'm wondering if I am well since I'm starting to come around on Trump.

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