Political Roundtable Part XV

[OzCastiel]

god help us all the end is near

[CobraCommander]

Do you guys ever think that America is a nation of hypocrites when it comes to Nukes...I know I am a hypocrite about it...but i accept it.
A sovereign right of the United States is to build nuclear weapons...but we would not say that is a sovereign right of Iran or North Korea. I dont want Iran or North Korea to have weapons but thats the rest of the world (me included) taking away thier right to equally defend themselves in the same way we do. Specifically the work is safer because Russia, America, China, India, Israel and Pakistan have nukes...but we dont want Iran and NK to have them because we dont like nor trust those nations. And they want Nukes for the exact same reason...they dont trust us and shouldn't trust us..because we would change out those regimes in a hot second.

[CobraCommander]

god help us all the end is near

What happened now???

[OzCastiel]

god help us all the end is near

What happened now???

Nothing brand new. Just finished reading all the doubling down that took place today regarding the racial injustice protests, the suicide mission north korean comments, all of this mans antics are just ridiculous.

[CobraCommander]

god help us all the end is near

What happened now???

Nothing brand new. Just finished reading all the doubling down that took place today regarding the racial injustice protests, the suicide mission north korean comments, all of this mans antics are just ridiculous.

Yeah ...well it's Sunday. A new week...more clown antics are sure to follow. I wonder who will step down/get fired this week. Or who will get vilified via twitter for asking a principled question or not voting yes on the new healthcare bill. Or what celebrity will get attacked for being less popular or having low ratings. Or when he will remind us that he has a house in this city or that he is really a rich guy and has rich friends that go to foreign countries to enrich themselves. Stay tuned...

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Remember Trump's making fun of Senator McCain for him having been taken p o w in Vietnam?

That one was egregious. Trump's privilege kept him safe and smug.

I'm happy to see McCain's defiance to the end. Another No vote on ACA repeal.





Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

god help us all the end is near

Suppose earthquakes, hurricanes, terrorism, missile launches, UN ultimatums, political angst and astronomical alignments foreshadow the end may be near.

I suggest you seek and find God ASAP if you are a non-believer.


Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[cammac]

Do you guys ever think that America is a nation of hypocrites when it comes to Nukes...I know I am a hypocrite about it...but i accept it.
A sovereign right of the United States is to build nuclear weapons...but we would not say that is a sovereign right of Iran or North Korea. I dont want Iran or North Korea to have weapons but thats the rest of the world (me included) taking away thier right to equally defend themselves in the same way we do. Specifically the work is safer because Russia, America, China, India, Israel and Pakistan have nukes...but we dont want Iran and NK to have them because we dont like nor trust those nations. And they want Nukes for the exact same reason...they dont trust us and shouldn't trust us..because we would change out those regimes in a hot second.

I tend to agree with you not that either country should have nukes but countries that have given up developing nuclear weapons have had regime changes Iraq and Libya are prime examples.Both obviously had despots as leaders and deserved to be taken down but a obvious precedent has been set. Iran in many respects has taken a gamble but stopping development but Trump seems to want them to renew development. North Korea is paranoid and in reality has every right to be that stopping its aggression will only end in regime change. The only country that gave up Nuclear weapons that didn't have adverse results was South Africa even though the regime did change.

[CobraCommander]

Do you guys ever think that America is a nation of hypocrites when it comes to Nukes...I know I am a hypocrite about it...but i accept it.
A sovereign right of the United States is to build nuclear weapons...but we would not say that is a sovereign right of Iran or North Korea. I dont want Iran or North Korea to have weapons but thats the rest of the world (me included) taking away thier right to equally defend themselves in the same way we do. Specifically the work is safer because Russia, America, China, India, Israel and Pakistan have nukes...but we dont want Iran and NK to have them because we dont like nor trust those nations. And they want Nukes for the exact same reason...they dont trust us and shouldn't trust us..because we would change out those regimes in a hot second.

I tend to agree with you not that either country should have nukes but countries that have given up developing nuclear weapons have had regime changes Iraq and Libya are prime examples.Both obviously had despots as leaders and deserved to be taken down but a obvious precedent has been set. Iran in many respects has taken a gamble but stopping development but Trump seems to want them to renew development. North Korea is paranoid and in reality has every right to be that stopping its aggression will only end in regime change. The only country that gave up Nuclear weapons that didn't have adverse results was South Africa even though the regime did change.

The truth is ...if North Korea and Iran dont go nuclear...sometime in the future we may decide that they need to change leadership RIGHT NOW...and there wont be anything they can do to stop it. BTW...a lot of people believe South Africa gave up nukes because (you guessed it) to keep nukes out of the hands of Africans. It was the outgoing regime saying....HELL NAW I AM NOT LEAVING MY BIG GUNS TO THESE GUYS. I bet Obama wish he could have done that with the military before he left the office

But in the case of Iran and North Korea wanting nukes..like some comedian said once...I might not agree but I understand.

the second they have a ICBM that has a nuclear warhead they might as well roll up to the G8 summit and ask for a seat.

[CobraCommander]

Remember Trump's making fun of Senator McCain for him having been taken p o w in Vietnam?

That one was egregious. Trump's privilege kept him safe and smug.

I'm happy to see McCain's defiance to the end. Another No vote on ACA repeal.





Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

McCain is a real American hero...when he is lucid he can really debate...when he is off..."hey go get your drunk crazy uncle off the mic" at a wedding...like he was during the Comey senate hearings. Yesterday I heard him speak and it was amazing how clear his points were about the current health care bill when compared to his questions at the Comey hearings (where he sounded like Nancy on pain pills)...

[stilldropin20]

god help us all the end is near

Suppose earthquakes, hurricanes, terrorism, missile launches, UN ultimatums, political angst and astronomical alignments foreshadow the end may be near.

I suggest you seek and find God ASAP if you are a non-believer.


Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

I dont believe in religion but i do believe in God. So I am with you.

Adding to CCJ and OZcastiels, points (however unsolicited):

Look folks,the entire skeletal backbone or framework of every single socio/economic system in every country in the entire world allows the top .1-5% to exploit the bottom 95-99.9%. Every single country. and its nearly impossible to get out from under it. 95% do not. Some group is being tragically taken advantage of right now. Everywhere. Even here in the USA. The only way I see this changing is (regrettably and unfortunately) damn near scorched earth. And the only reason scorched earth is the only way to "fix" it. Is because the masses just wont take the time to learn about all the injustices.

In some countries the masses have no choice at all. Uneducated with an extremely harsh ruling class. In our so-called "free" society, we are brainwashed to think politicians will do the right thing (as if that "right thing is in the middle of the laft and the right's framework of the debate. Most dont even know what the "right" thing is. And those politicians that do know better are easily bought and paid for by the wealthy ruling class.

So we get caught up in debating all the nonesense like who can or can not choose a frickin bathroom for christs sake. Or taking a knee during the national anthem. straight up nonsense. we should not care about either of those issues. They should not be devisive. Kapernick should be allowed to take a damn knee if he wants. And an NFL owners (of the league) should be allowed to "ban" him for doing so if they want. But they would never have to "ban" him in th efirst place if it wasnt such a BS hot button issue. This just should not be an issue that brings out the fauxrage. and thats coming from a guy that served in the US Navy (btw, why hasn't one of you thanked me for my service yet?)

So in the end we never get to the core issues because we cripple ourselves with small ball nonsense. and thats what they want. At first, historically, they didn't educate. Now that we're "edumacated" they have gone the route of misinforming us and/or confising with complete waste of time small ball bullshxt. Thats why they began buying media outlets or "starting up" media outlets. To spread the confusion more efficiently and to spin or redirected the narrative when they get bad press.

The ruling class owns every single problem in the entire world. Dont ever forget that. Not your neighbor next door. he is just an uniformed or misinformed jerk if he is being inhumane or unjust. He doesn't know better. and I'm not excusing him or letting him off the hook. AT all. But he didn't create racism or sexism in this country. the wealthy elite ruling class did. the early pioneers did and they taught it to their children who taught it to their children and it existed up until very recently.

In this country we are suppose to be self-governed. what a joke. Until we get extremely serious about campaign finance reform we have no chance. Politicians/public servants or their families should not be allowed to not make or receive money in any sahpe or form beyond their public service salary for at least 10 years before running and 30 years after running. In any way shape or form. We can NOT have situations where Dick Cheney is the sec of defense until 1993 then is the CEO of halliburton in 1995 and then VP in 2001-2009. I mean, wut dafuq!!! too much conflict of interest. or where Bill clinton is getting paid for speeches in foreign countries while his wife is sec of state and making large deals with those same countries. let alone all the others ways politicians can be paid-for-play. We must eliminate these pay for play avenues entirely and almost for the eternity of public servant's lifeso as long as they dont commit crimes they should get life time salaries. Term limits on congress as well unless we get some great ones that actually fix things and restore the power back to the people and they have approval rating through the roof, or something?

But I cant even get 2 pages into my thoughts before at least 5 people called me terrible names to shift the narrative and attempt to bait me into a name calling fuss. and If you've been reading for the past 12 pages or so since i entered the conversation, ive pointed my finger at one group and one group only. The wealthy elite ruling class. they own every single mess that exists. And we let them off the hook with crap like blaming donald effing trump. the jolly old douchbag johnny come lately far right mouthpiece politician. Like the current state of affairs are his fault. We have a mess on our hands for sure. But it aint donald trumps fault for none of this crap. now, he is not helping at all on some fronts for sure. But the issues we face as a Americans and then as a human race go far deeper than recent upstart clown boy donald trump pouring gasoline on already hot button nonsense issues..

The wealthy elite ruling class wants 2 things. production and consumption. thats it. those 2 things create "money" that they then use to continue to hoard or use to "purchase" resources, like gold and oil to hoard and/or sell for even more money (to hoard).

wake up people. talk to each other. listen to each other. its a tough conversation. you will be uncomfortable. but get beneath the discomfort. so you can learn about each other. you will find out that you have far more in common than you do different. and in fact that you are not enemies or even competitors. Instead, you will learn that you have been pitted against each other to "fight" over the miserable scraps the ruling class left behind. stop fighting over the scraps. Band together and let's raid the banks!!! and the vaults of the historical ruling class!! through congress, of course. They work for us, remember.

[gtn130]

Honestly it's pretty impressive how SD20 can quickly fire off ten paragraphs of this nonsense. Dude is a machine

[cammac]

god help us all the end is near

Suppose earthquakes, hurricanes, terrorism, missile launches, UN ultimatums, political angst and astronomical alignments foreshadow the end may be near.

I suggest you seek and find God ASAP if you are a non-believer.


Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

I dont believe in religion but i do believe in God. So I am with you.

Adding to CCJ and OZcastiels, points (however unsolicited):

Look folks,the entire skeletal backbone or framework of every single socio/economic system in every country in the entire world allows the top .1-5% to exploit the bottom 95-99.9%. Every single country. and its nearly impossible to get out from under it. 95% do not. Some group is being tragically taken advantage of right now. Everywhere. Even here in the USA. The only way I see this changing is (regrettably and unfortunately) damn near scorched earth. And the only reason scorched earth is the only way to "fix" it. Is because the masses just wont take the time to learn about all the injustices.

In some countries the masses have no choice at all. Uneducated with an extremely harsh ruling class. In our so-called "free" society, we are brainwashed to think politicians will do the right thing (as if that "right thing is in the middle of the laft and the right's framework of the debate. Most dont even know what the "right" thing is. And those politicians that do know better are easily bought and paid for by the wealthy ruling class.

So we get caught up in debating all the nonesense like who can or can not choose a frickin bathroom for christs sake. Or taking a knee during the national anthem. straight up nonsense. we should not care about either of those issues. They should not be devisive. Kapernick should be allowed to take a damn knee if he wants. And an NFL owners (of the league) should be allowed to "ban" him for doing so if they want. But they would never have to "ban" him in th efirst place if it wasnt such a BS hot button issue. This just should not be an issue that brings out the fauxrage. and thats coming from a guy that served in the US Navy (btw, why hasn't one of you thanked me for my service yet?)

So in the end we never get to the core issues because we cripple ourselves with small ball nonsense. and thats what they want. At first, historically, they didn't educate. Now that we're "edumacated" they have gone the route of misinforming us and/or confising with complete waste of time small ball bullshxt. Thats why they began buying media outlets or "starting up" media outlets. To spread the confusion more efficiently and to spin or redirected the narrative when they get bad press.

The ruling class owns every single problem in the entire world. Dont ever forget that. Not your neighbor next door. he is just an uniformed or misinformed jerk if he is being inhumane or unjust. He doesn't know better. and I'm not excusing him or letting him off the hook. AT all. But he didn't create racism or sexism in this country. the wealthy elite ruling class did. the early pioneers did and they taught it to their children who taught it to their children and it existed up until very recently.

In this country we are suppose to be self-governed. what a joke. Until we get extremely serious about campaign finance reform we have no chance. Politicians/public servants or their families should not be allowed to not make or receive money in any sahpe or form beyond their public service salary for at least 10 years before running and 30 years after running. In any way shape or form. We can NOT have situations where Dick Cheney is the sec of defense until 1993 then is the CEO of halliburton in 1995 and then VP in 2001-2009. I mean, wut dafuq!!! too much conflict of interest. or where Bill clinton is getting paid for speeches in foreign countries while his wife is sec of state and making large deals with those same countries. let alone all the others ways politicians can be paid-for-play. We must eliminate these pay for play avenues entirely and almost for the eternity of public servant's lifeso as long as they dont commit crimes they should get life time salaries. Term limits on congress as well unless we get some great ones that actually fix things and restore the power back to the people and they have approval rating through the roof, or something?

But I cant even get 2 pages into my thoughts before at least 5 people called me terrible names to shift the narrative and attempt to bait me into a name calling fuss. and If you've been reading for the past 12 pages or so since i entered the conversation, ive pointed my finger at one group and one group only. The wealthy elite ruling class. they own every single mess that exists. And we let them off the hook with crap like blaming donald effing trump. the jolly old douchbag johnny come lately far right mouthpiece politician. Like the current state of affairs are his fault. We have a mess on our hands for sure. But it aint donald trumps fault for none of this crap. now, he is not helping at all on some fronts for sure. But the issues we face as a Americans and then as a human race go far deeper than recent upstart clown boy donald trump pouring gasoline on already hot button nonsense issues..

The wealthy elite ruling class wants 2 things. production and consumption. thats it. those 2 things create "money" that they then use to continue to hoard or use to "purchase" resources, like gold and oil to hoard and/or sell for even more money (to hoard).

wake up people. talk to each other. listen to each other. its a tough conversation. you will be uncomfortable. but get beneath the discomfort. so you can learn about each other. you will find out that you have far more in common than you do different. and in fact that you are not enemies or even competitors. Instead, you will learn that you have been pitted against each other to "fight" over the miserable scraps the ruling class left behind. stop fighting over the scraps. Band together and let's raid the banks!!! and the vaults of the historical ruling class!! through congress, of course. They work for us, remember.

Yes I agree with you to a certain extent in that in the USA the 1% controls the political dialogue and the wealthy control the message most of the time. In the last election Bernie Sanders was the one exception with the majority of his supporters giving less than $20.

That said the USA seems to be in perpetual election mode with mid terms then Presidential elections and the lack of uniformity of terms for the House, Senate and President. Plus have no national law on voter registration leaving it up to the States and allow politicians to redistribute boundaries for districts rather than a independent commission. Personally I like Australia's law where everyone must vote because turnouts are getting lower and lower about 50% in USA and slightly over 60% in Canada.

In Canada there are strict laws on donations a individual can give a maximum of $1550.00 to a party and $1550.00 to a candidate. Corporations or Trade Unions can't donate to Federal Elections.A Federal election campaign lasts 78 days in Canada. Political parties and candidates face limits on the amounts they may spend during an election. Political parties may spend 73.5 cents for every voter in districts where they are running candidates. For their local campaigns, candidates may spend an amount based on the population of the district in which they are running, typically between $75,000 and $115,000.

[stilldropin20]

Suppose earthquakes, hurricanes, terrorism, missile launches, UN ultimatums, political angst and astronomical alignments foreshadow the end may be near.

I suggest you seek and find God ASAP if you are a non-believer.


Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

I dont believe in religion but i do believe in God. So I am with you.

Adding to CCJ and OZcastiels, points (however unsolicited):

Look folks,the entire skeletal backbone or framework of every single socio/economic system in every country in the entire world allows the top .1-5% to exploit the bottom 95-99.9%. Every single country. and its nearly impossible to get out from under it. 95% do not. Some group is being tragically taken advantage of right now. Everywhere. Even here in the USA. The only way I see this changing is (regrettably and unfortunately) damn near scorched earth. And the only reason scorched earth is the only way to "fix" it. Is because the masses just wont take the time to learn about all the injustices.

In some countries the masses have no choice at all. Uneducated with an extremely harsh ruling class. In our so-called "free" society, we are brainwashed to think politicians will do the right thing (as if that "right thing is in the middle of the laft and the right's framework of the debate. Most dont even know what the "right" thing is. And those politicians that do know better are easily bought and paid for by the wealthy ruling class.

So we get caught up in debating all the nonesense like who can or can not choose a frickin bathroom for christs sake. Or taking a knee during the national anthem. straight up nonsense. we should not care about either of those issues. They should not be devisive. Kapernick should be allowed to take a damn knee if he wants. And an NFL owners (of the league) should be allowed to "ban" him for doing so if they want. But they would never have to "ban" him in th efirst place if it wasnt such a BS hot button issue. This just should not be an issue that brings out the fauxrage. and thats coming from a guy that served in the US Navy (btw, why hasn't one of you thanked me for my service yet?)

So in the end we never get to the core issues because we cripple ourselves with small ball nonsense. and thats what they want. At first, historically, they didn't educate. Now that we're "edumacated" they have gone the route of misinforming us and/or confising with complete waste of time small ball bullshxt. Thats why they began buying media outlets or "starting up" media outlets. To spread the confusion more efficiently and to spin or redirected the narrative when they get bad press.

The ruling class owns every single problem in the entire world. Dont ever forget that. Not your neighbor next door. he is just an uniformed or misinformed jerk if he is being inhumane or unjust. He doesn't know better. and I'm not excusing him or letting him off the hook. AT all. But he didn't create racism or sexism in this country. the wealthy elite ruling class did. the early pioneers did and they taught it to their children who taught it to their children and it existed up until very recently.

In this country we are suppose to be self-governed. what a joke. Until we get extremely serious about campaign finance reform we have no chance. Politicians/public servants or their families should not be allowed to not make or receive money in any sahpe or form beyond their public service salary for at least 10 years before running and 30 years after running. In any way shape or form. We can NOT have situations where Dick Cheney is the sec of defense until 1993 then is the CEO of halliburton in 1995 and then VP in 2001-2009. I mean, wut dafuq!!! too much conflict of interest. or where Bill clinton is getting paid for speeches in foreign countries while his wife is sec of state and making large deals with those same countries. let alone all the others ways politicians can be paid-for-play. We must eliminate these pay for play avenues entirely and almost for the eternity of public servant's lifeso as long as they dont commit crimes they should get life time salaries. Term limits on congress as well unless we get some great ones that actually fix things and restore the power back to the people and they have approval rating through the roof, or something?

But I cant even get 2 pages into my thoughts before at least 5 people called me terrible names to shift the narrative and attempt to bait me into a name calling fuss. and If you've been reading for the past 12 pages or so since i entered the conversation, ive pointed my finger at one group and one group only. The wealthy elite ruling class. they own every single mess that exists. And we let them off the hook with crap like blaming donald effing trump. the jolly old douchbag johnny come lately far right mouthpiece politician. Like the current state of affairs are his fault. We have a mess on our hands for sure. But it aint donald trumps fault for none of this crap. now, he is not helping at all on some fronts for sure. But the issues we face as a Americans and then as a human race go far deeper than recent upstart clown boy donald trump pouring gasoline on already hot button nonsense issues..

The wealthy elite ruling class wants 2 things. production and consumption. thats it. those 2 things create "money" that they then use to continue to hoard or use to "purchase" resources, like gold and oil to hoard and/or sell for even more money (to hoard).

wake up people. talk to each other. listen to each other. its a tough conversation. you will be uncomfortable. but get beneath the discomfort. so you can learn about each other. you will find out that you have far more in common than you do different. and in fact that you are not enemies or even competitors. Instead, you will learn that you have been pitted against each other to "fight" over the miserable scraps the ruling class left behind. stop fighting over the scraps. Band together and let's raid the banks!!! and the vaults of the historical ruling class!! through congress, of course. They work for us, remember.

Yes I agree with you to a certain extent in that in the USA the 1% controls the political dialogue and the wealthy control the message most of the time. In the last election Bernie Sanders was the one exception with the majority of his supporters giving less than $20.

That said the USA seems to be in perpetual election mode with mid terms then Presidential elections and the lack of uniformity of terms for the House, Senate and President. Plus have no national law on voter registration leaving it up to the States and allow politicians to redistribute boundaries for districts rather than a independent commission. Personally I like Australia's law where everyone must vote because turnouts are getting lower and lower about 50% in USA and slightly over 60% in Canada.

In Canada there are strict laws on donations a individual can give a maximum of $1550.00 to a party and $1550.00 to a candidate. Corporations or Trade Unions can't donate to Federal Elections.A Federal election campaign lasts 78 days in Canada. Political parties and candidates face limits on the amounts they may spend during an election. Political parties may spend 73.5 cents for every voter in districts where they are running candidates. For their local campaigns, candidates may spend an amount based on the population of the district in which they are running, typically between $75,000 and $115,000.

these sound pretty solid. where are the holes in it?

US has similar stuff in our so-called campaign finance reform laws. With major holes all over it. foundations, trusts, and non-for-profits are mostly untouchable by the IRS, FBI, DEA and CIA if an individual commits a crime so long as fund from the foundation are not used-which is easy because founders and advisers can move money in and out with little recourse. founders can also be employees and pay themselves whatever they want. So money can transfer from one foundation to another foundation with little taxation 1-2% generally. so when warren buffet donates $27Billion to the gates foundation little to none of it is taxed. where if the individual donates to the individual directly that would get taxed at 39%. Case law in america goes back hundreds of years and no judge has touched these trusts and foundations. Tons of money gets moved around in these non-for profits even hundreds of Millions. even in a non-for-profit, 5013c, they dont have to "donate" that much. Years ago the number was 10% I believe. yet they pay no taxes. and the foundation/trust can "make/earn" or receive donations.

Additionally money can legally funnel into family members in most cases(extended and nuclear). they are exempt from most campaign finance reforms.

And there's nothing to stop a member of congress leaving public office on friday and going to work for a corporation on saturday that the congressman just voted on legislation that helped that company on thursday. None what so ever. and that company can pay him whatever they want.

These last 2 are more easily discovered by watchdogs in the modern day but thats how bold politicians and dirty corporations played it in the past. Ghost payrolls and hidden filings so the public never knew. and most of the corporations that do this type of stuff are private so they dont have public disclosings and you need a warrant to obtain it. Nowaday watch dog mostly find these and the optics of it are so ugly that only the unprepared idiots execute their dirty payoffs in this manner. still though. they do it. Tillerson just left exxon and there is nothing stopping him from going right back there when he is done as SOS. chaney and halliburton.

years ago, politicians could keep whatever money they had left in the bank from their campaign contributions. now they have to donate it. "No personal use." But i dont believe there is anything stopping them from donating it to their own 5013c or even their own private foundation-not sure on that one though. These foundations can buy planes, buy houses, charter yachts, pay individual for work(speeches) etc. etc etc. so long as charitable "work" is being accomplished there is little to nothing stopping these foundations from being nothing more than tax free piggy banks for the corrupt ruling class.

i mean, im just scratching the surface here. The US has major major major holes in its tax codes and campaign finance regulations so long as the politician knows what they are doing and understands the codes and the laws they can get away with pay-to-play all day long and in broad daylight.

And this might not be the ugliest part. the ugliest part is that is that the GOP and DNC have massive ground games in place and they hold massive cash reserves. So if you want to (re)run on either of their platforms, you will almost always need their money. And he who has the money makes the rules. So nearly all dems and repubs are nothing more than good soldiers to their parties unable to truly vote with their own conscious for backlash of losing the ability to stay in office without the funds from their parties when they ar eup for re-election. And same goes for freshmen. deals are made before they even enter office. Their campaign pledges are decided for them.

As an aside, yes, thats one thing i liked about trump and Bernie. Bernie had his own ground game. his own funding. and like cammac said, almost solely based on small contributions and was up against the massive DNC cash reserves as well as the massive Clinton foundation cash reserves as well as the Clinton political machine and its massive network with its own massive ground game that can raise cash whenever they need it. If the democratic primaries were 100% open and if their super delegates voted the will of the people, Bernie would have been not only nominated, but all polls had him beating trump by 12-15% almost 10 points higher than HRC. DNC blew that one. Bigly. And Trump had the entire establishment GOP against him. Right up until almost the very the end when it was clear he was going to win the nomination. The massive GOP cash reserves as well as Ted Cruz' massive ground game were both too big to fail. But ted himself was so uninspiring that trump was an easy choice for the far right. And trump did his research. he knew what to campaign on. he knew what the far right wanted to hear. trumps incendiary language made headlines and everyone including CNN would put his entire campaign speeches on live TV. Just to see what he would say next. Boy, do they wish they had a do-over on that one? Or do they? Fact is All media ratings have been up bigly ever since Trump announced. so maybe not.

[I_Like_Dirt]

I agree, SD. Both Trump and Bernie had their own games unlike more traditional political aspirants who tend to have their own games line up with their party's games. That's where the similarities end, though. Trump's game is clearly all about Trump regardless of how he goes about it or who he has to step on to achieve it. Bernie is completely different - whether or not you feel his plans were realistic or not, his goals are clearly not about himself and are an attempt to make things better for the majority, and in particular those who are currently the worst off in society. Not all change is change for the better, and it's absolutely critical to watch for that and be the driver of change for the better, not change for change's sake. That said, given how few people actually ever change their vote from one political party to another, it's also pretty clear that a majority of Americans don't actually want change beyond their party to simply win all the time regardless of any particular policies.

[dobrojim]

some number pages back someone (SD?) asked when the fed budget was last balanced
and one suggested answer was during Nixon admin.

For the record,

The budget was briefly balanced (2-3 years?) during Slick's 2nd term. Dubya blew that all to smithereens
with tax cuts, wars and an unfunded increase in entitlements (Medi D) (which official govt spokespeople
lied about at the time in the sworn testimony). There were the things within his control.

BHO initially spent heavily because that's what you do in a depression/recession to try to get out of it.
The stimulus that was passed would have been more effective if less of it had been focused on tax cuts
and more had been focused on direct spending but those were politically necessary to get it passed.
Yes, one of the first things BHO did was cut taxes, a fact the Taxed Enough Already
(TEA party) seemed to be completely ignorant of.

Freedom - that's were people can choose their own course of behavior/protest and as long as they're
not violent, the govt doesn't get to say they can't. WaPo had a nice editorial on it today referring back
to a 1943 supreme court decision protecting the right of Jehovah's Witness schoolchildren from being
forced to salute the flag.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I dont believe in religion but i do believe in God. So I am with you.

Adding to CCJ and OZcastiels, points (however unsolicited):

Look folks,the entire skeletal backbone or framework of every single socio/economic system in every country in the entire world allows the top .1-5% to exploit the bottom 95-99.9%. Every single country. and its nearly impossible to get out from under it. 95% do not. Some group is being tragically taken advantage of right now. Everywhere. Even here in the USA. The only way I see this changing is (regrettably and unfortunately) damn near scorched earth. And the only reason scorched earth is the only way to "fix" it. Is because the masses just wont take the time to learn about all the injustices.

In some countries the masses have no choice at all. Uneducated with an extremely harsh ruling class. In our so-called "free" society, we are brainwashed to think politicians will do the right thing (as if that "right thing is in the middle of the laft and the right's framework of the debate. Most dont even know what the "right" thing is. And those politicians that do know better are easily bought and paid for by the wealthy ruling class.

So we get caught up in debating all the nonesense like who can or can not choose a frickin bathroom for christs sake. Or taking a knee during the national anthem. straight up nonsense. we should not care about either of those issues. They should not be devisive. Kapernick should be allowed to take a damn knee if he wants. And an NFL owners (of the league) should be allowed to "ban" him for doing so if they want. But they would never have to "ban" him in th efirst place if it wasnt such a BS hot button issue. This just should not be an issue that brings out the fauxrage. and thats coming from a guy that served in the US Navy (btw, why hasn't one of you thanked me for my service yet?)

So in the end we never get to the core issues because we cripple ourselves with small ball nonsense. and thats what they want. At first, historically, they didn't educate. Now that we're "edumacated" they have gone the route of misinforming us and/or confising with complete waste of time small ball bullshxt. Thats why they began buying media outlets or "starting up" media outlets. To spread the confusion more efficiently and to spin or redirected the narrative when they get bad press.

The ruling class owns every single problem in the entire world. Dont ever forget that. Not your neighbor next door. he is just an uniformed or misinformed jerk if he is being inhumane or unjust. He doesn't know better. and I'm not excusing him or letting him off the hook. AT all. But he didn't create racism or sexism in this country. the wealthy elite ruling class did. the early pioneers did and they taught it to their children who taught it to their children and it existed up until very recently.

In this country we are suppose to be self-governed. what a joke. Until we get extremely serious about campaign finance reform we have no chance. Politicians/public servants or their families should not be allowed to not make or receive money in any sahpe or form beyond their public service salary for at least 10 years before running and 30 years after running. In any way shape or form. We can NOT have situations where Dick Cheney is the sec of defense until 1993 then is the CEO of halliburton in 1995 and then VP in 2001-2009. I mean, wut dafuq!!! too much conflict of interest. or where Bill clinton is getting paid for speeches in foreign countries while his wife is sec of state and making large deals with those same countries. let alone all the others ways politicians can be paid-for-play. We must eliminate these pay for play avenues entirely and almost for the eternity of public servant's lifeso as long as they dont commit crimes they should get life time salaries. Term limits on congress as well unless we get some great ones that actually fix things and restore the power back to the people and they have approval rating through the roof, or something?

But I cant even get 2 pages into my thoughts before at least 5 people called me terrible names to shift the narrative and attempt to bait me into a name calling fuss. and If you've been reading for the past 12 pages or so since i entered the conversation, ive pointed my finger at one group and one group only. The wealthy elite ruling class. they own every single mess that exists. And we let them off the hook with crap like blaming donald effing trump. the jolly old douchbag johnny come lately far right mouthpiece politician. Like the current state of affairs are his fault. We have a mess on our hands for sure. But it aint donald trumps fault for none of this crap. now, he is not helping at all on some fronts for sure. But the issues we face as a Americans and then as a human race go far deeper than recent upstart clown boy donald trump pouring gasoline on already hot button nonsense issues..

The wealthy elite ruling class wants 2 things. production and consumption. thats it. those 2 things create "money" that they then use to continue to hoard or use to "purchase" resources, like gold and oil to hoard and/or sell for even more money (to hoard).

wake up people. talk to each other. listen to each other. its a tough conversation. you will be uncomfortable. but get beneath the discomfort. so you can learn about each other. you will find out that you have far more in common than you do different. and in fact that you are not enemies or even competitors. Instead, you will learn that you have been pitted against each other to "fight" over the miserable scraps the ruling class left behind. stop fighting over the scraps. Band together and let's raid the banks!!! and the vaults of the historical ruling class!! through congress, of course. They work for us, remember.

Yes I agree with you to a certain extent in that in the USA the 1% controls the political dialogue and the wealthy control the message most of the time. In the last election Bernie Sanders was the one exception with the majority of his supporters giving less than $20.

That said the USA seems to be in perpetual election mode with mid terms then Presidential elections and the lack of uniformity of terms for the House, Senate and President. Plus have no national law on voter registration leaving it up to the States and allow politicians to redistribute boundaries for districts rather than a independent commission. Personally I like Australia's law where everyone must vote because turnouts are getting lower and lower about 50% in USA and slightly over 60% in Canada.

In Canada there are strict laws on donations a individual can give a maximum of $1550.00 to a party and $1550.00 to a candidate. Corporations or Trade Unions can't donate to Federal Elections.A Federal election campaign lasts 78 days in Canada. Political parties and candidates face limits on the amounts they may spend during an election. Political parties may spend 73.5 cents for every voter in districts where they are running candidates. For their local campaigns, candidates may spend an amount based on the population of the district in which they are running, typically between $75,000 and $115,000.

these sound pretty solid. where are the holes in it?

US has similar stuff in our so-called campaign finance reform laws. With major holes all over it. foundations, trusts, and non-for-profits are mostly untouchable by the IRS, FBI, DEA and CIA if an individual commits a crime so long as fund from the foundation are not used-which is easy because founders and advisers can move money in and out with little recourse. founders can also be employees and pay themselves whatever they want. So money can transfer from one foundation to another foundation with little taxation 1-2% generally. so when warren buffet donates $27Billion to the gates foundation little to none of it is taxed. where if the individual donates to the individual directly that would get taxed at 39%. Case law in america goes back hundreds of years and no judge has touched these trusts and foundations. Tons of money gets moved around in these non-for profits even hundreds of Millions. even in a non-for-profit, 5013c, they dont have to "donate" that much. Years ago the number was 10% I believe. yet they pay no taxes. and the foundation/trust can "make/earn" or receive donations.

Additionally money can legally funnel into family members in most cases(extended and nuclear). they are exempt from most campaign finance reforms.

And there's nothing to stop a member of congress leaving public office on friday and going to work for a corporation on saturday that the congressman just voted on legislation that helped that company on thursday. None what so ever. and that company can pay him whatever they want.

These last 2 are more easily discovered by watchdogs in the modern day but thats how bold politicians and dirty corporations played it in the past. Ghost payrolls and hidden filings so the public never knew. and most of the corporations that do this type of stuff are private so they dont have public disclosings and you need a warrant to obtain it. Nowaday watch dog mostly find these and the optics of it are so ugly that only the unprepared idiots execute their dirty payoffs in this manner. still though. they do it. Tillerson just left exxon and there is nothing stopping him from going right back there when he is done as SOS. chaney and halliburton.

years ago, politicians could keep whatever money they had left in the bank from their campaign contributions. now they have to donate it. "No personal use." But i dont believe there is anything stopping them from donating it to their own 5013c or even their own private foundation-not sure on that one though. These foundations can buy planes, buy houses, charter yachts, pay individual for work(speeches) etc. etc etc. so long as charitable "work" is being accomplished there is little to nothing stopping these foundations from being nothing more than tax free piggy banks for the corrupt ruling class.

i mean, im just scratching the surface here. The US has major major major holes in its tax codes and campaign finance regulations so long as the politician knows what they are doing and understands the codes and the laws they can get away with pay-to-play all day long and in broad daylight.

And this might not be the ugliest part. the ugliest part is that is that the GOP and DNC have massive ground games in place and they hold massive coiffures. So if you want to (re)run on either of their platforms, you will almost always need their money. And he who has the money makes the rules. So nearly all dems and repubs are nothing more than good soldiers to their parties unable to truly vote with their own conscious for backlash of losing the ability to stay in office without the funds from their parties when they ar eup for re-election. And same goes for freshmen. deals are made before they even enter office. Their campaign pledges are decided for them.

As an aside, yes, thats one thing i liked about trump and Bernie. Bernie had his own ground game. his own funding. and like cammac said, almost solely based on small contributions and was up against the massive DNC coiffures as well as the massive Clinton foundation coiffures as well as Clinton political machine and its massive network with its own massive ground game. If the democratic primaries were 100% open and if their super delegates voted the will of the people, Bernie would have been not only nominated, but all polls had him beating trump by 12-15% almost 10 points higher than HRC. DNC blew that one. Bigly. And Trump had the entire establishment GOP against him. Right up until almost the very the end when it was clear he was going to win the nomination. The massive GOP coiffures and Ted Cruz massive ground game were both too big to fail. But ted himself was so uninspiring that trump was an easy choice for the far right. And trump did his research. he knew what to campaign on. he knew what the far right wanted to hear. trumps incediary language made headlines and everyone including CNN would put his entiree campaign speeches on live TV. Just to see what he would say next. Boy do they wish they had a do over on that one? Or do they? Fact is All media ratings have been up bigly ever since Trump announced. so maybe not.

I learned quite a bit. Thanks, SD.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

some number pages back someone (SD?) asked when the fed budget was last balanced
and one suggested answer was during Nixon admin.

For the record,

The budget was briefly balanced (2-3 years?) during Slick's 2nd term. Dubya blew that all to smithereens
with tax cuts, wars and an unfunded increase in entitlements (Medi D) (which official govt spokespeople
lied about at the time in the sworn testimony). There were the things within his control.

BHO initially spent heavily because that's what you do in a depression/recession to try to get out of it.
The stimulus that was passed would have been more effective if less of it had been focused on tax cuts
and more had been focused on direct spending but those were politically necessary to get it passed.
Yes, one of the first things BHO did was cut taxes, a fact the Taxed Enough Already
(TEA party) seemed to be completely ignorant of.

Freedom - that's were people can choose their own course of behavior/protest and as long as they're
not violent, the govt doesn't get to say they can't. WaPo had a nice editorial on it today referring back
to a 1943 supreme court decision protecting the right of Jehovah's Witness schoolchildren from being
forced to salute the flag.

Slick Willie was a great president.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[Wizardspride]

Trump supporters (some) make so many excuses for his behavior.

1.)"Yeah, he's a little over the top now but once he's elected he'll moderate"

2.)"He's just not PC. He tells it like it is"

3.)He's going to drain the swamp. Kick the bums out. He's different. He's not bought like "Crooked Hillary"

4.)He's not racist. He's just America first".




Please.

When someone consistently shows you who they are, believe them.

[stilldropin20]

I agree, SD. Both Trump and Bernie had their own games unlike more traditional political aspirants who tend to have their own games line up with their party's games. That's where the similarities end, though. Trump's game is clearly all about Trump regardless of how he goes about it or who he has to step on to achieve it. Bernie is completely different - whether or not you feel his plans were realistic or not, his goals are clearly not about himself and are an attempt to make things better for the majority, and in particular those who are currently the worst off in society. Not all change is change for the better, and it's absolutely critical to watch for that and be the driver of change for the better, not change for change's sake. That said, given how few people actually ever change their vote from one political party to another, it's also pretty clear that a majority of Americans don't actually want change beyond their party to simply win all the time regardless of any particular policies.

well you are touching on part of the reason i voted for Bernie. Bernie's altruistic platform was essentially a re-distibrution of wealth top to bottom which i clearly favor if you have been paying attention. If he had half a brain cell working, it should have been followed up with massive tax increases on the super wealthy (in an attempt) to pay for it; including retroactive taxes (estate, foundations, etc.)...almost full on socialism which I'm not opposed to as an ideology to instigate radical change. I think he had the will of the people behind him and enough political capital, given he didn't lose his ideological backbone once elected-something they all seem to do.