Official Current Affairs & Politics thread

[MrDollarBills]

There's nothing wrong with government skepticism. But you can't deny that Trump has give white supremacy an open platform in this country that hasn't been seen in decades.

I won't go as far as to say these problems did not exist when Barack was in office, but Trump has exacerbated damn near everything.

Trump openly threatens North Korea on twitter. There's a huge difference between doing that, and behaving like an adult and letting diplomats and the SoS operate diplomatically to diffuse tensions.

Watch on YouTube

The coward carrying a tiki torch who's uneducated as to how the world actually works is not the person I fear.

I fear the person I don't see, who's passing the subtly insidious policies that keep hospitals distant from poor communities, the teacher that dgaf about the success of the students that don't look like her children, the police chief who hires officers with a track record of abusing their communities. A candidate that convinces you these issues no longer exist, or the country is 'post race' is far more insidious than the one that puts it in your face.


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The problem is that Trump isn't just a candidate. He is the POTUS. He has the power to do more than just put it in your face.

Those people that you fear, well now he is empowering them and putting some of them into positions of greater power and influence.

correct. he is giving the same people shakendfries is talking about and dismissing a platform for escalation.

i keep going back to it, but once Trump waded into the waters of trying to normalize White Supremacists, having an apathetic attitude toward overt racists is to do so at your own risk.

You think these people won't try to kill you? they want ethnic cleansing. they think that we minorities don't belong here. to have this kind of propaganda/ideology being given a mainstream platform in a country that is loaded with firearms is highly dangerous.

The problem in America is that Americans think that the atrocities that have happened in other countries can't and won't happen here. If you think that what happened in Eurasia in the beginning of the 20th century, or even **** ing Rwanda in the 90s can't happen here, you are in denial. Human nature is not to be taken lightly. When these lunatics talk about establishing a white ethno state and ethnically cleansing the United States, I don't take that as an empty threat.

[TinmanZBoy]

I've done a lot of self reflection. And I still conclude much of the country has lost their damn minds.

You're under the impression that comments on a site like Breitbart somehow represent a large percentage of Americans. I think that conclusion is asinine. Breitbart is a cesspool that has attracted vermin from around the country and allowed them to all congregate in one place. But that is in no way representative of regular people.

In fact, to make such an assumption is the definition of prejudice and stereotyping.

As for it upsetting me... it doesn't. Well, not too much. I've grown numb to the stupidity that is permeating both sides. People are more interested in casting people they disagree with as the worst kinds of villains instead of using their brains and actually realizing that both sides are falling prey to being manipulated.

The worst part is that both sides agree that people are being manipulated into being hateful... but they always claim it's the "other side" that is being manipulated.

News flash. It's both.

^^here we have an example of typical "whataboutism" or deflecting by trying to paint people who point out the racism of Trump and his base as the ones who are prejudiced and stereotyping.

"Both sides"?

One side has people in open support of a racist authoritarian nutjob because he panders to the dregs of American society with segments of them openly calling for ethnic cleansing and open hatred/abuse towards minority americans. The other has people of all backgrounds and ethnicity who are appalled by this rhetoric and behavior (as any sane person would). The only ones who have lost their damn minds are the enablers and sympathizers of Trump's base like you.

You don't get to play the both sides game when this man has enabled neo nazis to walk in American streets chanting "blood and soil" and "jews will not replace us", what the hell is wrong with you?

Your stinking white privilege allows you to play the both sides game because these people don't have their venom aimed towards you. I however, cannot afford to do so.

First, you don't know what "whataboutism" is. I stated that you're being duped and manipulated into hating others, and people on the right are also being duped. You clearly didn't read, or you didn't understand.

As for your argument about "one side" having this, or the other side having that. Stupid. Completely stupid. You don't judge an argument by what people happen to also agree with that argument (especially when they are a minuscule percentage). You judge an argument based on facts, logic, and its merits. Seriously. This is not rocket science. You're basing your positing on your own prejudices and bigotry. You're basically doing exactly what you claim those you hate are doing.

If a klansman said that 1+1=2, and you said that 1+2=2, does that make you a supporter of the klansman? It's such a childish argument that I'm surprised so many people buy into it.

As for my "white privilege"... I'm not anywhere close to white. In fact, when I was young and dumb I used to fear white people and think the same way you did. But then I grew up and actually started thinking critically.

You should make arguments based on the merits of a position. You should do so logically and support it with facts.

I'm quite frankly disgusted at how easily people paint huge swaths of people as racists without evidence. The act of doing so is bigotry, and real self-reflection is the realization of this and advancing causes based on rational thought instead of emotions.

this... very well said...
this either left or right politics is dividing the country...

[Reflexx]

without evidence...lol. you seriously think that at this stage of the game there is zero evidence that the remaining 34% or lower that still cling to Trump aren't racist trash?

okay chief. you hold tight on to your "both sides" argument. even if you're not white, you're clearly naive. the same people you're trying to defend don't even want you on this soil...your self hatred is nauseating.

Again. You fall directly into the playbook of pepe frog trolls and right wing agitators when you use this "you're the one that's bigoted and hateful because you have a problem with people who are bigoted and hateful!" garbage.

You're calling me a bigot for taking people to task who support a white supremacist demagogue and either a) agree with him or b) have no problem with what he says, does, or enables. it speaks for itself.

if you're a person of color like you claim...you may want to check yourself. the extremist end of the spectrum that Trump appeals to would have no problem beating the hell your dumb ass or even killing you. wake up.

All of your arguments are based on prejudiced assumptions about a huge group of people based on the fallacy of anecdotal evidence. Nothing you say can withstand even rudimentary logical scrutiny.

You are not hateful against racists. You a hateful against an entire group of people that you then label as racist because of your prejudice. You don't know them. Instead, you see the actions of a few idiots and attempt to assign those traits to an entire group that has no association with those crazies other than voting for the same person.

Your bigotry is blinding you.

I don't let a few extremists make me act just like them. You shouldn't either.

[MrDollarBills]

Don't call me a bigot because of your own inferiority complex and self hatred is so bad that will try to normalize a base full of racist people. The days of "not all Trump supporters" being a legitimate argument are beyond gone. At this stage of the game, the people who still stick by Trump do so out of sheer racism. Not jobs, not the economy, not healthcare, etc. But the fact that he appeals to their worst instincts. Everything that he does now is to solely to appeal to his base, he doesn't even hide it any more:

In private, the president and his top aides freely admit that he is engaged in a culture war on behalf of his white, working-class base, a New York billionaire waging war against “politically correct” coastal elites on behalf of his supporters in the South and in the Midwest. He believes the war was foisted upon him by former President Barack Obama and other Democrats — and he is determined to win, current and former aides said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/us/politics/trump-nascar-nfl-protests.html

NY Times. September 25th, 2017. But you can go ahead, stick your head in the sand and pretend as if any of this is remotely normal, or get mad at me for pointing out what I see from Trump and his base.

The divisiveness isn't coming from the people who are disgusted by racists, its coming from the goddamn racists, but you're sitting here going to bat for them even though they'd sure as hell spit in your face and call you whatever slur that they would call you. Get real.

Also, to go back to something you said...I don't "fear" white people...that's a moronic assertion (like 99% of what you've said). I work with, am friends with, am family with people who are white. That's not the point of anything that I've said.

I don't however, tolerate racists. Period. You may think that people spouting off Nazi rhetoric or white nationalists deserve to have a voice or shouldn't be called to task over their ideology...well I don't, and history says that I shouldn't nor should any other civilized person.

[shakendfries]

The real question is at what point will you stop identifying as a supporter of 45? It wasn't after the he called athletes 'sons of bitches', quite a few of which had been raised by their mothers, for protesting brutality. It wasn't after 45 would rather tweet about the NFL then pay attention to the natural disasters that have devastated Houston and Puerto Rico, his failed healthcare reform, or threatening NK with annihilation. It wasn't after he provided a wishy washy response to his supporters who mowed down a crowd of innocent people standing against racism. It wasn't after he called Mexicans rapists, or insulted a Medal of Honor recipient, or the disabled. What is the actual last straw for you to stop identifying as a supporter of the crude individual who currently holds the highest position of power in the country?

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck, and if you can't see how claiming to be a supporter of 45 also lays claim to the views he promotes, you are racist for turning a blind eye to views that hurt people emotionally and has even gotten people killed in Charlottesville

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

This has nothing to do with believing in national security or avoiding the issue of terror attacks in Europe. It's about the character of the person you are claiming to align your personal beliefs with.

There is no 'I understand all of this, but...' middle ground on this question. If you're still in 45s corner you are no better than the tiki torch wielding Americans, who have turn out to be just as degenerate as 45 hurling insults on twitter from the Oval Office

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Reflexx]

Don't call me a bigot because of your own inferiority complex and self hatred is so bad that will try to normalize a base full of racist people. The days of "not all Trump supporters" being a legitimate argument are beyond gone. At this stage of the game, the people who still stick by Trump do so out of sheer racism. Not jobs, not the economy, not healthcare, etc. But the fact that he appeals to their worst instincts. Everything that he does now is to solely to appeal to his base, he doesn't even hide it any more:

In private, the president and his top aides freely admit that he is engaged in a culture war on behalf of his white, working-class base, a New York billionaire waging war against “politically correct” coastal elites on behalf of his supporters in the South and in the Midwest. He believes the war was foisted upon him by former President Barack Obama and other Democrats — and he is determined to win, current and former aides said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/us/politics/trump-nascar-nfl-protests.html

NY Times. September 25th, 2017. But you can go ahead, stick your head in the sand and pretend as if any of this is remotely normal, or get mad at me for pointing out what I see from Trump and his base.

The divisiveness isn't coming from the people who are disgusted by racists, its coming from the goddamn racists, but you're sitting here going to bat for them even though they'd sure as hell spit in your face and call you whatever slur that they would call you. Get real.

Also, to go back to something you said...I don't "fear" white people...that's a moronic assertion (like 99% of what you've said). I work with, am friends with, am family with people who are white. That's not the point of anything that I've said.

I don't however, tolerate racists. Period. You may think that people spouting off Nazi rhetoric or white nationalists deserve to have a voice or shouldn't be called to task over their ideology...well I don't, and history says that I shouldn't nor should any other civilized person.

Your fist sentence proves my point.
"Don't call me a bigot because of your own inferiority complex and self hatred is so bad that will try to normalize a base full of racist people."

That is the exact same logic that kkk members use. "Is not my fault that black people are mostly criminals."

Do you see how moronic that is? The type of rationalizing you are using is identical.

And then you try to justify it. No amount of justification matters when the assertion is logically flawed.

[Reflexx]

The real question is at what point will you stop identifying as a supporter of 45? It wasn't after the he called athletes 'sons of bitches', quite a few of which had been raised by their mothers, for protesting brutality. It wasn't after 45 would rather tweet about the NFL then pay attention to the natural disasters that have devastated Houston and Puerto Rico, his failed healthcare reform, or threatening NK with annihilation. It wasn't after he provided a wishy washy response to his supporters who mowed down a crowd of innocent people standing against racism. It wasn't after he called Mexicans rapists, or insulted a Medal of Honor recipient, or the disabled. What is the actual last straw for you to stop identifying as a supporter of the crude individual who currently holds the highest position of power in the country?

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck, and if you can't see how claiming to be a supporter of 45 also lays claim to the views he promotes, you are racist for turning a blind eye to views that hurt people emotionally and has even gotten people killed in Charlottesville

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

This has nothing to do with believing in national security or avoiding the issue of terror attacks in Europe. It's about the character of the person you are claiming to align your personal beliefs with.

There is no 'I understand all of this, but...' middle ground on this question. If you're still in 45s corner you are no better than the tiki torch wielding Americans, who have turn out to be just as degenerate as 45 hurling insults on twitter from the Oval Office

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Ahhh... The old, "If you disagree with me, I will label you a racist." argument.

I personally find Donald Trump to be an immature and egotistical attention-seeking child with no core principles. But I still laugh at arguments like yours because they are just an attempt to justify bigotry and feel good about doing so. As if there is some sort of hunor is making such judgements.

[shakendfries]

The real question is at what point will you stop identifying as a supporter of 45? It wasn't after the he called athletes 'sons of bitches', quite a few of which had been raised by their mothers, for protesting brutality. It wasn't after 45 would rather tweet about the NFL then pay attention to the natural disasters that have devastated Houston and Puerto Rico, his failed healthcare reform, or threatening NK with annihilation. It wasn't after he provided a wishy washy response to his supporters who mowed down a crowd of innocent people standing against racism. It wasn't after he called Mexicans rapists, or insulted a Medal of Honor recipient, or the disabled. What is the actual last straw for you to stop identifying as a supporter of the crude individual who currently holds the highest position of power in the country?

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck, and if you can't see how claiming to be a supporter of 45 also lays claim to the views he promotes, you are racist for turning a blind eye to views that hurt people emotionally and has even gotten people killed in Charlottesville

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

This has nothing to do with believing in national security or avoiding the issue of terror attacks in Europe. It's about the character of the person you are claiming to align your personal beliefs with.

There is no 'I understand all of this, but...' middle ground on this question. If you're still in 45s corner you are no better than the tiki torch wielding Americans, who have turn out to be just as degenerate as 45 hurling insults on twitter from the Oval Office

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Ahhh... The old, "If you disagree with me, I will label you a racist." argument.

I personally find Donald Trump to be an immature and egotistical attention-seeking child with no core principles. But I still laugh at arguments like yours because they are just an attempt to justify bigotry and feel good about doing so. As if there is some sort of hunor is making such judgements.

Ah, the classic 'that's reverse racism!' argument echoed by the close minded individuals worldwide

That wasn't an if you disagree you're a racist argument, that was the if you claim to support a person that promotes racist views that have killed people, you are supporting those same views.

And you haven't answered the question of what would it take for you to disavow 45


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Reflexx]

The real question is at what point will you stop identifying as a supporter of 45? It wasn't after the he called athletes 'sons of bitches', quite a few of which had been raised by their mothers, for protesting brutality. It wasn't after 45 would rather tweet about the NFL then pay attention to the natural disasters that have devastated Houston and Puerto Rico, his failed healthcare reform, or threatening NK with annihilation. It wasn't after he provided a wishy washy response to his supporters who mowed down a crowd of innocent people standing against racism. It wasn't after he called Mexicans rapists, or insulted a Medal of Honor recipient, or the disabled. What is the actual last straw for you to stop identifying as a supporter of the crude individual who currently holds the highest position of power in the country?

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck, and if you can't see how claiming to be a supporter of 45 also lays claim to the views he promotes, you are racist for turning a blind eye to views that hurt people emotionally and has even gotten people killed in Charlottesville

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

This has nothing to do with believing in national security or avoiding the issue of terror attacks in Europe. It's about the character of the person you are claiming to align your personal beliefs with.

There is no 'I understand all of this, but...' middle ground on this question. If you're still in 45s corner you are no better than the tiki torch wielding Americans, who have turn out to be just as degenerate as 45 hurling insults on twitter from the Oval Office

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Ahhh... The old, "If you disagree with me, I will label you a racist." argument.

I personally find Donald Trump to be an immature and egotistical attention-seeking child with no core principles. But I still laugh at arguments like yours because they are just an attempt to justify bigotry and feel good about doing so. As if there is some sort of hunor is making such judgements.

Ah, the classic 'that's reverse racism!' argument echoed by the close minded individuals worldwide

That wasn't an if you disagree you're a racist argument, that was the if you claim to support a person that promotes racist views that have killed people, you are supporting those same views.

And you haven't answered the question of what would it take for you to disavow 45


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I didn't say "reverse racism". I don't believe in such a thing. I follow logic. Bigotry is bigotry, no matter what form it follows. No matter the color, race, or creed of the person with the bigoted thoughts. Bigotry is a mindset that is disgusting. Period.

Your statement, "that was the if you claim to support a person that promotes racist views that have killed people, you are supporting those same views." is fundamentally flawed.

For one, I don't believe Trump is a proven racist. Ignorant and biased? Probably. A loud mouth? Definitely. Bigoted in some ways that are not necessarily tied to race? Probably. Some biases tied to race? Probably. He has the same type of faults many people, including you, have. People are bigoted by nature. Only logic can overcome this.

Do I think he's racist? No. Not yet at least. There's a difference between having bigoted/ignorant thoughts and being a racist.

Are there racists that support him? Yup. They're morons.

But the support for him generally isn't about him. It is mainly about people being tired of being told they are horrible because of their skin color (white) or their politics (conservative) and the media being complicit in advancing that narrative. They have had enough of the bullying and are happy to see someone push back.

I find his methods distasteful. But I see both sides playing a game in who could be less and less rational and they focus more on differences and vilification than agreements.

What is there to disavow? I'm not a Trump supporter. I'm just not on the bigot bandwagon. I find it disgusting.

However, I think that bigotry is a behavior that people can change once they embrace rational thought and logic. When they refuse to succumb to what the crowd says and instead judged each person on their own merits instead of jumping to conclusions based on who they support politically.

Bigotry is lazy shorthand so that we don't have to think.

[MrDollarBills]

Don't call me a bigot because of your own inferiority complex and self hatred is so bad that will try to normalize a base full of racist people. The days of "not all Trump supporters" being a legitimate argument are beyond gone. At this stage of the game, the people who still stick by Trump do so out of sheer racism. Not jobs, not the economy, not healthcare, etc. But the fact that he appeals to their worst instincts. Everything that he does now is to solely to appeal to his base, he doesn't even hide it any more:

In private, the president and his top aides freely admit that he is engaged in a culture war on behalf of his white, working-class base, a New York billionaire waging war against “politically correct” coastal elites on behalf of his supporters in the South and in the Midwest. He believes the war was foisted upon him by former President Barack Obama and other Democrats — and he is determined to win, current and former aides said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/us/politics/trump-nascar-nfl-protests.html

NY Times. September 25th, 2017. But you can go ahead, stick your head in the sand and pretend as if any of this is remotely normal, or get mad at me for pointing out what I see from Trump and his base.

The divisiveness isn't coming from the people who are disgusted by racists, its coming from the goddamn racists, but you're sitting here going to bat for them even though they'd sure as hell spit in your face and call you whatever slur that they would call you. Get real.

Also, to go back to something you said...I don't "fear" white people...that's a moronic assertion (like 99% of what you've said). I work with, am friends with, am family with people who are white. That's not the point of anything that I've said.

I don't however, tolerate racists. Period. You may think that people spouting off Nazi rhetoric or white nationalists deserve to have a voice or shouldn't be called to task over their ideology...well I don't, and history says that I shouldn't nor should any other civilized person.

Your fist sentence proves my point.
"Don't call me a bigot because of your own inferiority complex and self hatred is so bad that will try to normalize a base full of racist people."

That is the exact same logic that kkk members use. "Is not my fault that black people are mostly criminals."

Do you see how moronic that is? The type of rationalizing you are using is identical.

And then you try to justify it. No amount of justification matters when the assertion is logically flawed.

"Don't call me a bigot because of your own inferiority complex and self hatred is so bad that will try to normalize a base full of racist people" is equal to "Is not my fault that black people are mostly criminals."?

One is a statement of fact (Trump's base is full of racist people), the other (black people are mostly criminals) isn't. The fact that you would even equate my statement to something like that says a lot about your highly suspect logic and your piss poor attempt at playing this "You're the real bigot for speaking out and saying bad things about bigots and racists" nonsense.

You're basically pulling the old "Blacks are the real racists!" card that trolls love to use to deflect from the issue of the base being full of racist white people including Neo Nazis, Alt Righters, Neo Confederates, White Supremacists, etc. But yet I'm the evil one and being divisive for pointing that out...hilarious.

I also love how you ignore this:

In private, the president and his top aides freely admit that he is engaged in a culture war on behalf of his white, working-class base, a New York billionaire waging war against “politically correct” coastal elites on behalf of his supporters in the South and in the Midwest. He believes the war was foisted upon him by former President Barack Obama and other Democrats — and he is determined to win, current and former aides said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/us/politics/trump-nascar-nfl-protests.html

just to continue to call me a "bigot" because I don't coddle, make nice with, or "see both sides" of a base that has dwindled down to racist trash supporting a racist ideologue who is "engaged in a culture war on behalf of his white, working-class base".

[Hello Brooklyn]

Trump has proven to be racist time and time again. Stop denying reality.

Trump was sued for discrimination against African Americans in his buildings.
Trump took out an ad calling for the execution of the Central Park 5.
Trump claimed that President Obama was not born in the US.
Trump said Obama might be a Muslim multiple times.
Trump said "laziness was a trait of the blacks."
Trump called for a ban of all Muslims into the US.
Trump falsely claimed that thousands of Muslims celebrated 9/11 in New Jersey to drum up hatred.
Trump said more whites are killed by black than whites in America (which isn't true)
Trump regularly retweets neo nazi Twitter accounts
Trump said a judge could not decide a case for him because he was Mexican


What more evidence do you need that he is a racist/white supremacist? Thats what he is.

In fact several studies have shown that Trump voters supported him because of racism and not economics.
https://www.thenation.com/article/economic-anxiety-didnt-make-people-vote-trump-racism-did/

As someone who worked on the election in 2016, racism was key appeal to Trump voters. I talked to several white voters who told me reasons they supported Trump that were directly related to these issues.

[J_LA]

Ahhh... The old, "If you disagree with me, I will label you a racist." argument.

I personally find Donald Trump to be an immature and egotistical attention-seeking child with no core principles. But I still laugh at arguments like yours because they are just an attempt to justify bigotry and feel good about doing so. As if there is some sort of hunor is making such judgements.

Ah, the classic 'that's reverse racism!' argument echoed by the close minded individuals worldwide

That wasn't an if you disagree you're a racist argument, that was the if you claim to support a person that promotes racist views that have killed people, you are supporting those same views.

And you haven't answered the question of what would it take for you to disavow 45


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I didn't say "reverse racism". I don't believe in such a thing. I follow logic. Bigotry is bigotry, no matter what form it follows. No matter the color, race, or creed of the person with the bigoted thoughts. Bigotry is a mindset that is disgusting. Period.

Your statement, "that was the if you claim to support a person that promotes racist views that have killed people, you are supporting those same views." is fundamentally flawed.

For one, I don't believe Trump is a proven racist. Ignorant and biased? Probably. A loud mouth? Definitely. Bigoted in some ways that are not necessarily tied to race? Probably. He has the same type of faults many people, including you, have.

But the support for him generally isn't about him. It is mainly about people being tired of being told they are horrible because of their skin color (white) or their politics (conservative) and the media being complicit in advancing that narrative. They have had enough of the bullying and are happy to see someone push back.

I find his methods distasteful. But I see both sides playing a game in who could be less and less rational and they focus more on differences and vilification than agreements.

What is there to disavow? I'm not a Trump supporter. I'm just not on the bigot bandwagon. I find it disgusting.

However, I think that bigotry is a behavior that people can change once they embrace rational thought and logic. When they refuse to succumb to what the crowd says and instead judged each person on their own merits instead of jumping to conclusions based on who they support politically.

Bigotry is lazy shorthand so that we don't have to think.

Hahahaha. What more does he have to do to actually prove he's a racist?

[MrDollarBills]

Ahhh... The old, "If you disagree with me, I will label you a racist." argument.

I personally find Donald Trump to be an immature and egotistical attention-seeking child with no core principles. But I still laugh at arguments like yours because they are just an attempt to justify bigotry and feel good about doing so. As if there is some sort of hunor is making such judgements.

Ah, the classic 'that's reverse racism!' argument echoed by the close minded individuals worldwide

That wasn't an if you disagree you're a racist argument, that was the if you claim to support a person that promotes racist views that have killed people, you are supporting those same views.

And you haven't answered the question of what would it take for you to disavow 45


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I didn't say "reverse racism". I don't believe in such a thing. I follow logic. Bigotry is bigotry, no matter what form it follows. No matter the color, race, or creed of the person with the bigoted thoughts. Bigotry is a mindset that is disgusting. Period.

Your statement, "that was the if you claim to support a person that promotes racist views that have killed people, you are supporting those same views." is fundamentally flawed.

For one, I don't believe Trump is a proven racist. Ignorant and biased? Probably. A loud mouth? Definitely. Bigoted in some ways that are not necessarily tied to race? Probably. Some biases tied to race? Probably. He has the same type of faults many people, including you, have. People are bigoted by nature. Only logic can overcome this.

Do I think he's racist? No. Not yet at least. There's a difference between having bigoted/ignorant thoughts and being a racist.

Are there racists that support him? Yup. They're morons.

But the support for him generally isn't about him. It is mainly about people being tired of being told they are horrible because of their skin color (white) or their politics (conservative) and the media being complicit in advancing that narrative. They have had enough of the bullying and are happy to see someone push back.

I find his methods distasteful. But I see both sides playing a game in who could be less and less rational and they focus more on differences and vilification than agreements.

What is there to disavow? I'm not a Trump supporter. I'm just not on the bigot bandwagon. I find it disgusting.

However, I think that bigotry is a behavior that people can change once they embrace rational thought and logic. When they refuse to succumb to what the crowd says and instead judged each person on their own merits instead of jumping to conclusions based on who they support politically.

Bigotry is lazy shorthand so that we don't have to think.

Your denial of the truth also achieves the same outcome.

[shakendfries]

Ahhh... The old, "If you disagree with me, I will label you a racist." argument.

I personally find Donald Trump to be an immature and egotistical attention-seeking child with no core principles. But I still laugh at arguments like yours because they are just an attempt to justify bigotry and feel good about doing so. As if there is some sort of hunor is making such judgements.

Ah, the classic 'that's reverse racism!' argument echoed by the close minded individuals worldwide

That wasn't an if you disagree you're a racist argument, that was the if you claim to support a person that promotes racist views that have killed people, you are supporting those same views.

And you haven't answered the question of what would it take for you to disavow 45


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I didn't say "reverse racism". I don't believe in such a thing. I follow logic. Bigotry is bigotry, no matter what form it follows. No matter the color, race, or creed of the person with the bigoted thoughts. Bigotry is a mindset that is disgusting. Period.

Your statement, "that was the if you claim to support a person that promotes racist views that have killed people, you are supporting those same views." is fundamentally flawed.

For one, I don't believe Trump is a proven racist. Ignorant and biased? Probably. A loud mouth? Definitely. Bigoted in some ways that are not necessarily tied to race? Probably. Some biases tied to race? Probably. He has the same type of faults many people, including you, have. People are bigoted by nature. Only logic can overcome this.

Do I think he's racist? No. Not yet at least. There's a difference between having bigoted/ignorant thoughts and being a racist.

Are there racists that support him? Yup. They're morons.

But the support for him generally isn't about him. It is mainly about people being tired of being told they are horrible because of their skin color (white) or their politics (conservative) and the media being complicit in advancing that narrative. They have had enough of the bullying and are happy to see someone push back.

I find his methods distasteful. But I see both sides playing a game in who could be less and less rational and they focus more on differences and vilification than agreements.

What is there to disavow? I'm not a Trump supporter. I'm just not on the bigot bandwagon. I find it disgusting.

However, I think that bigotry is a behavior that people can change once they embrace rational thought and logic. When they refuse to succumb to what the crowd says and instead judged each person on their own merits instead of jumping to conclusions based on who they support politically.

Bigotry is lazy shorthand so that we don't have to think.

Perhaps, but that begets the query of at what point is anything considered racist?

Is the tiki torch wielding moron waving their guns and the confederate flag racist for holding a symbol of racism? Is anyone participating in the enforcement of the criminal justice system that fails to realize the inextricable biases the broken windows policies racist because they work for a statistically quantifiably racist institution?

The problem with how you describe towing the line of semantics, is that ultimately nothing gets called out for being associated with a bias inextricably tied to race under your logic


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[MrDollarBills]

Trump has proven to be racist time and time again. Stop denying reality.

Trump was sued for discrimination against African Americans in his buildings.
Trump took out an ad calling for the execution of the Central Park 5.
Trump claimed that President Obama was not born in the US.
Trump said Obama might be a Muslim multiple times.
Trump said "laziness was a trait of the blacks."
Trump called for a ban of all Muslims into the US.
Trump falsely claimed that thousands of Muslims celebrated 9/11 in New Jersey to drum up hatred.
Trump said more whites are killed by black than whites in America (which isn't true)
Trump regularly retweets neo nazi Twitter accounts
Trump said a judge could not decide a case for him because he was Mexican


What more evidence do you need that he is a racist/white supremacist? Thats what he is.

In fact several studies have shown that Trump voters supported him because of racism and not economics.
https://www.thenation.com/article/economic-anxiety-didnt-make-people-vote-trump-racism-did/

As someone who worked on the election in 2016, racism was key appeal to Trump voters. I talked to several white voters who told me reasons they supported Trump that were directly related to these issues.

Or his behavior after the Charlottesville tragedy, refusing to condemn nazis, the fact that members of his staff are known white supremacists (Bannon, Miller) or legitimate Neo Nazis (Sebastian Gorka)...

So, to this dude, he has seen nothing that shows that Trump is a racist, but he is quick to call me and another person bigots for denouncing Trump's base....which is proven to be full of racists. Okay. I see we've got either a troll on our hands, or someone in serious denial.

It is mainly about people being tired of being told they are horrible because of their skin color (white) or their politics (conservative)

^this is also very telling. Who are the ones telling people that they are horrible because of their skin color or their politics? Trump's base, or the people who denounce the kind of rhetoric that Trump uses to make them flock to him?

[Reflexx]

Don't call me a bigot because of your own inferiority complex and self hatred is so bad that will try to normalize a base full of racist people. The days of "not all Trump supporters" being a legitimate argument are beyond gone. At this stage of the game, the people who still stick by Trump do so out of sheer racism. Not jobs, not the economy, not healthcare, etc. But the fact that he appeals to their worst instincts. Everything that he does now is to solely to appeal to his base, he doesn't even hide it any more:



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/us/politics/trump-nascar-nfl-protests.html

NY Times. September 25th, 2017. But you can go ahead, stick your head in the sand and pretend as if any of this is remotely normal, or get mad at me for pointing out what I see from Trump and his base.

The divisiveness isn't coming from the people who are disgusted by racists, its coming from the goddamn racists, but you're sitting here going to bat for them even though they'd sure as hell spit in your face and call you whatever slur that they would call you. Get real.

Also, to go back to something you said...I don't "fear" white people...that's a moronic assertion (like 99% of what you've said). I work with, am friends with, am family with people who are white. That's not the point of anything that I've said.

I don't however, tolerate racists. Period. You may think that people spouting off Nazi rhetoric or white nationalists deserve to have a voice or shouldn't be called to task over their ideology...well I don't, and history says that I shouldn't nor should any other civilized person.

Your fist sentence proves my point.
"Don't call me a bigot because of your own inferiority complex and self hatred is so bad that will try to normalize a base full of racist people."

That is the exact same logic that kkk members use. "Is not my fault that black people are mostly criminals."

Do you see how moronic that is? The type of rationalizing you are using is identical.

And then you try to justify it. No amount of justification matters when the assertion is logically flawed.

"Don't call me a bigot because of your own inferiority complex and self hatred is so bad that will try to normalize a base full of racist people" is equal to "Is not my fault that black people are mostly criminals."?

One is a statement of fact (Trump's base is full of racist people), the other (black people are mostly criminals) isn't. The fact that you would even equate my statement to something like that says a lot about your highly suspect logic and your piss poor attempt at playing this "You're the real bigot for speaking out and saying bad things about bigots and racists" nonsense.

You're basically pulling the old "Blacks are the real racists!" card that trolls love to use to deflect from the issue of the base being full of racist white people including Neo Nazis, Alt Righters, Neo Confederates, White Supremacists, etc. But yet I'm the evil one and being divisive for pointing that out...hilarious.

I also love how you ignore this:

In private, the president and his top aides freely admit that he is engaged in a culture war on behalf of his white, working-class base, a New York billionaire waging war against “politically correct” coastal elites on behalf of his supporters in the South and in the Midwest. He believes the war was foisted upon him by former President Barack Obama and other Democrats — and he is determined to win, current and former aides said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/us/politics/trump-nascar-nfl-protests.html

just to continue to call me a "bigot" because I don't coddle, make nice with, or "see both sides" of a base that has dwindled down to racist trash supporting a racist ideologue who is "engaged in a culture war on behalf of his white, working-class base".

I didn't ignore your rationalizing. However, I see such an action as a politically strategic one based on that base being tired of being vilified and having their needs and concerns listened to because of the color of their skin.

And my characterization of you as being bigoted is only based on one thing... the logic you use to condemn a whole swath of people based on the actions of very few.

[Reflexx]

Ah, the classic 'that's reverse racism!' argument echoed by the close minded individuals worldwide

That wasn't an if you disagree you're a racist argument, that was the if you claim to support a person that promotes racist views that have killed people, you are supporting those same views.

And you haven't answered the question of what would it take for you to disavow 45


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I didn't say "reverse racism". I don't believe in such a thing. I follow logic. Bigotry is bigotry, no matter what form it follows. No matter the color, race, or creed of the person with the bigoted thoughts. Bigotry is a mindset that is disgusting. Period.

Your statement, "that was the if you claim to support a person that promotes racist views that have killed people, you are supporting those same views." is fundamentally flawed.

For one, I don't believe Trump is a proven racist. Ignorant and biased? Probably. A loud mouth? Definitely. Bigoted in some ways that are not necessarily tied to race? Probably. Some biases tied to race? Probably. He has the same type of faults many people, including you, have. People are bigoted by nature. Only logic can overcome this.

Do I think he's racist? No. Not yet at least. There's a difference between having bigoted/ignorant thoughts and being a racist.

Are there racists that support him? Yup. They're morons.

But the support for him generally isn't about him. It is mainly about people being tired of being told they are horrible because of their skin color (white) or their politics (conservative) and the media being complicit in advancing that narrative. They have had enough of the bullying and are happy to see someone push back.

I find his methods distasteful. But I see both sides playing a game in who could be less and less rational and they focus more on differences and vilification than agreements.

What is there to disavow? I'm not a Trump supporter. I'm just not on the bigot bandwagon. I find it disgusting.

However, I think that bigotry is a behavior that people can change once they embrace rational thought and logic. When they refuse to succumb to what the crowd says and instead judged each person on their own merits instead of jumping to conclusions based on who they support politically.

Bigotry is lazy shorthand so that we don't have to think.

Your denial of the truth also achieves the same outcome.

Truth: Condemning an entire group of people based on the prejudices you have is bigoted.

[MrDollarBills]

Your fist sentence proves my point.
"Don't call me a bigot because of your own inferiority complex and self hatred is so bad that will try to normalize a base full of racist people."

That is the exact same logic that kkk members use. "Is not my fault that black people are mostly criminals."

Do you see how moronic that is? The type of rationalizing you are using is identical.

And then you try to justify it. No amount of justification matters when the assertion is logically flawed.

"Don't call me a bigot because of your own inferiority complex and self hatred is so bad that will try to normalize a base full of racist people" is equal to "Is not my fault that black people are mostly criminals."?

One is a statement of fact (Trump's base is full of racist people), the other (black people are mostly criminals) isn't. The fact that you would even equate my statement to something like that says a lot about your highly suspect logic and your piss poor attempt at playing this "You're the real bigot for speaking out and saying bad things about bigots and racists" nonsense.

You're basically pulling the old "Blacks are the real racists!" card that trolls love to use to deflect from the issue of the base being full of racist white people including Neo Nazis, Alt Righters, Neo Confederates, White Supremacists, etc. But yet I'm the evil one and being divisive for pointing that out...hilarious.

I also love how you ignore this:

In private, the president and his top aides freely admit that he is engaged in a culture war on behalf of his white, working-class base, a New York billionaire waging war against “politically correct” coastal elites on behalf of his supporters in the South and in the Midwest. He believes the war was foisted upon him by former President Barack Obama and other Democrats — and he is determined to win, current and former aides said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/us/politics/trump-nascar-nfl-protests.html

just to continue to call me a "bigot" because I don't coddle, make nice with, or "see both sides" of a base that has dwindled down to racist trash supporting a racist ideologue who is "engaged in a culture war on behalf of his white, working-class base".

I didn't ignore your rationalizing. However, I see such an action as a politically strategic one based on that base being tired of being vilified and having their needs and concerns listened to because of the color of their skin.

So you see the President of the United States engaging in the divisive (and dangerous) action of engaging in a "culture war" on behalf of one segment of the population based on their skin color to be a sound political tactic, and not an act of overt and aggressive racism beneath the office of the POTUS.

Okay.

[Reflexx]

Ah, the classic 'that's reverse racism!' argument echoed by the close minded individuals worldwide

That wasn't an if you disagree you're a racist argument, that was the if you claim to support a person that promotes racist views that have killed people, you are supporting those same views.

And you haven't answered the question of what would it take for you to disavow 45


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I didn't say "reverse racism". I don't believe in such a thing. I follow logic. Bigotry is bigotry, no matter what form it follows. No matter the color, race, or creed of the person with the bigoted thoughts. Bigotry is a mindset that is disgusting. Period.

Your statement, "that was the if you claim to support a person that promotes racist views that have killed people, you are supporting those same views." is fundamentally flawed.

For one, I don't believe Trump is a proven racist. Ignorant and biased? Probably. A loud mouth? Definitely. Bigoted in some ways that are not necessarily tied to race? Probably. Some biases tied to race? Probably. He has the same type of faults many people, including you, have. People are bigoted by nature. Only logic can overcome this.

Do I think he's racist? No. Not yet at least. There's a difference between having bigoted/ignorant thoughts and being a racist.

Are there racists that support him? Yup. They're morons.

But the support for him generally isn't about him. It is mainly about people being tired of being told they are horrible because of their skin color (white) or their politics (conservative) and the media being complicit in advancing that narrative. They have had enough of the bullying and are happy to see someone push back.

I find his methods distasteful. But I see both sides playing a game in who could be less and less rational and they focus more on differences and vilification than agreements.

What is there to disavow? I'm not a Trump supporter. I'm just not on the bigot bandwagon. I find it disgusting.

However, I think that bigotry is a behavior that people can change once they embrace rational thought and logic. When they refuse to succumb to what the crowd says and instead judged each person on their own merits instead of jumping to conclusions based on who they support politically.

Bigotry is lazy shorthand so that we don't have to think.

Perhaps, but that begets the query of at what point is anything considered racist?

Is the tiki torch wielding moron waving their guns and the confederate flag racist for holding a symbol of racism? Is anyone participating in the enforcement of the criminal justice system that fails to realize the inextricable biases the broken windows policies racist because they work for a statistically quantifiably racist institution?

The problem with how you describe towing the line of semantics, is that ultimately nothing gets called out for being associated with a bias inextricably tied to race under your logic


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Racism is action based on racial bigotry.

The problem isn't defining racism. The problem is in honestly recognizing it when there may be other valid explanations.

Perhaps it's because I believe in the American value of Innocent until proven guilty.

There are horrible racists out there.
There are also well-meaning, caring people with ignorant biases out there. No harm intended, but may be ignorant of cultural differences or may believe what they are shown in media. They can end up with bigoted thoughts because of this. Just like some here. I think most of you are well-meaning and desire to advance society positively. But that exists on the other side too. But both sides are so busy labeling each other that they don't realize the commonality.

[MrDollarBills]

I didn't say "reverse racism". I don't believe in such a thing. I follow logic. Bigotry is bigotry, no matter what form it follows. No matter the color, race, or creed of the person with the bigoted thoughts. Bigotry is a mindset that is disgusting. Period.

Your statement, "that was the if you claim to support a person that promotes racist views that have killed people, you are supporting those same views." is fundamentally flawed.

For one, I don't believe Trump is a proven racist. Ignorant and biased? Probably. A loud mouth? Definitely. Bigoted in some ways that are not necessarily tied to race? Probably. Some biases tied to race? Probably. He has the same type of faults many people, including you, have. People are bigoted by nature. Only logic can overcome this.

Do I think he's racist? No. Not yet at least. There's a difference between having bigoted/ignorant thoughts and being a racist.

Are there racists that support him? Yup. They're morons.

But the support for him generally isn't about him. It is mainly about people being tired of being told they are horrible because of their skin color (white) or their politics (conservative) and the media being complicit in advancing that narrative. They have had enough of the bullying and are happy to see someone push back.

I find his methods distasteful. But I see both sides playing a game in who could be less and less rational and they focus more on differences and vilification than agreements.

What is there to disavow? I'm not a Trump supporter. I'm just not on the bigot bandwagon. I find it disgusting.

However, I think that bigotry is a behavior that people can change once they embrace rational thought and logic. When they refuse to succumb to what the crowd says and instead judged each person on their own merits instead of jumping to conclusions based on who they support politically.

Bigotry is lazy shorthand so that we don't have to think.

Your denial of the truth also achieves the same outcome.

Truth: Condemning an entire group of people based on the prejudices you have is bigoted.

Truth: Condemning an entire group of people based on FACT is not. I'm not prejudiced against their skin colors or ethnicity. I condemn them because they support a racist ideologue who panders to their own beliefs, which are collectively racist and prejudiced towards Black, Latino, Muslim, Asian, Indian, and LGBTQA and Jewish Americans. What part of this is so hard for you to understand?

You are also quite sympathetic to racists, condemning people who speak out against them while trying to rationalize and even normalize their behavior. No one is "bullying" white americans or conservatives, but people are rightfully taking people to task if people resort to or support outright racism.