Player of the Day: Andre Roberson

[slick_watts]

What are these algorithms and who is using them?

Slick watts. They may not be algorithms was taking a shot at him and how smart he thinks he is.

i didn't make them up.

[hardenASG13]

We have information on the past. If you choose to ignore it that should be done for all players. In which case nobody can refute . we don't know if PG will fit at all. Or Melo. Or maybe Russ plays worse offensively. I can make up anything.

You use the past to predict.

Sure. I don't think okc has ever had melo and Paul George on the roster tho, so it's hard to do here. Yes you can speculate on anyone, that's the point of these player threads, I believe. I'm curious, with okcs offensive fire power, whether a 1 way defender is as useful as in previous years, especially as George can guard alot of the guys he did, and what teams specifically require a defensive specialist to be used alot with all the options okc now has. If you don't have an opinion, fine, don't post

I do but we've done this before. And having a bunch of one way offensive players would seem like an ideal role for Roberson. You just lost a bunch of defense in the lineup with Melo. But I dont really care anymore because nobody's convincing you anything anyway.

I think (and hope) melo as a defensive liability has been greatly exaggerated. His teams and rosters have stunk. And I don't think we've discussed Roberson in relation to this year's team in the past at all, seeing as how so much has changed. That's what i was/am doing here, and you jumped in with your new I need info motto, despite no info being available on the current team as they haven't played a game.

[hardenASG13]

Yep. I think a lot of people just get it in their heads that it's about just outscoring teams.
Defense seems to be a luxury in today's NBA but if you have a top 3 perimeter defender when the top teams are best at scoring from the perimeter, you HAVE to play him 30 mins

What does it matter what their defense is ranked?
The fact is, this year, they can be good, not great on D most nights and still win games (like, top 10 good). When they play golden State, yeah they need to step it up on D, collectively. Playing a guy who's a great defender, but unfortunately can't play at all on offense isn't the answer. Everyone stepping up their levels is, as a team.

Yes, he can give a blow 12-15 minutes a night. While outscoring them isnt likely tonwork either the notion that if he's out there, they could slow golden State is also ridiculous! They are the best offense, probably ever. They are going to score, alot. They need to find a balance of how much to use him (unless he developed some confidence in the oddseason) and I think 30mpg is way too much. Its equally as crazy to think you can stop them, because of 1 guy who's a good defender, who usually switches in screens anyway, and who s assignement went for 34 ppg in last year's playoffs despite his best effort.

So you are saying the thunder should chuck on their 5 best offensive players and just attempt to outscore them?
Do people realise the difference in having Abrines on the floor compared to Robes has on the team?!
I know people hate advanced stats but there is a very significant difference between the two.
Abrines ended the season as one of the worst defensive 2 guards in the league. I know he is only one player but that 1 player is still a fifth of what happens on the floor

So you are saying Roberson can stop curry or klay, or even really effect them? I just haven't seen that. He was guarding klay when he went white hot in game 6, wasn't he. He's a catch and shoot player, when he's hot it doesn't matter who guards him. Looking at the death lineup,

Russ on curry
Abrines on klay
PG on Durant
Melo on iguodala
Adams or patterson on Green

What is wrong there on defense? What will Roberson do on klay or Durant if they are hot? Do the warriors want to feature klay against abrines, or will he just take the shots he always does?

[bondom34]

Sure. I don't think okc has ever had melo and Paul George on the roster tho, so it's hard to do here. Yes you can speculate on anyone, that's the point of these player threads, I believe. I'm curious, with okcs offensive fire power, whether a 1 way defender is as useful as in previous years, especially as George can guard alot of the guys he did, and what teams specifically require a defensive specialist to be used alot with all the options okc now has. If you don't have an opinion, fine, don't post

I do but we've done this before. And having a bunch of one way offensive players would seem like an ideal role for Roberson. You just lost a bunch of defense in the lineup with Melo. But I dont really care anymore because nobody's convincing you anything anyway.

I think (and hope) melo as a defensive liability has been greatly exaggerated. His teams and rosters have stunk. And I don't think we've discussed Roberson in relation to this year's team in the past at all, seeing as how so much has changed. That's what i was/am doing here, and you jumped in with your new I need info motto, despite no info being available on the current team as they haven't played a game.

Melo has never in his career been a decent defender and has played on better rosters than last year. Meanwhile you remove anothwr plus defender and end up with bad defense. Weve never in 13 years seen a good defender in Melo and ading him to a lineup only increases the need for another defender.

[slick_watts]

i think there's some evidence that carmelo could be 'ok' on defense instead of terrible. i'm more worried about whether or not paul george returns to form.

[alessandrux]

What does it matter what their defense is ranked?
The fact is, this year, they can be good, not great on D most nights and still win games (like, top 10 good). When they play golden State, yeah they need to step it up on D, collectively. Playing a guy who's a great defender, but unfortunately can't play at all on offense isn't the answer. Everyone stepping up their levels is, as a team.

Yes, he can give a blow 12-15 minutes a night. While outscoring them isnt likely tonwork either the notion that if he's out there, they could slow golden State is also ridiculous! They are the best offense, probably ever. They are going to score, alot. They need to find a balance of how much to use him (unless he developed some confidence in the oddseason) and I think 30mpg is way too much. Its equally as crazy to think you can stop them, because of 1 guy who's a good defender, who usually switches in screens anyway, and who s assignement went for 34 ppg in last year's playoffs despite his best effort.

So you are saying the thunder should chuck on their 5 best offensive players and just attempt to outscore them?
Do people realise the difference in having Abrines on the floor compared to Robes has on the team?!
I know people hate advanced stats but there is a very significant difference between the two.
Abrines ended the season as one of the worst defensive 2 guards in the league. I know he is only one player but that 1 player is still a fifth of what happens on the floor

So you are saying Roberson can stop curry or klay, or even really effect them? I just haven't seen that. He was guarding klay when he went white hot in game 6, wasn't he. He's a catch and shoot player, when he's hot it doesn't matter who guards him. Looking at the death lineup,

Russ on curry
Abrines on klay
PG on Durant
Melo on iguodala
Adams or patterson on Green

What is wrong there on defense? What will Roberson do on klay or Durant if they are hot? Do the warriors want to feature klay against abrines, or will he just take the shots he always does?

They would switch Curry or Durant on Abrines, who would score probably almost every time (exaggerated, but they will score so much that no offense in the world could keep up with that).
If we want to outscore the Warriors (and make it pretty easy for them to score on us) we will lose.

[alessandrux]

i think there's some evidence that carmelo could be 'ok' on defense instead of terrible. i'm more worried about whether or not paul george returns to form.

Was/Is he injured in or after the postseason?

If not, i think he will do fine here. He was (by far) the hardest matchup in the east for LeBron last playoffs .
I think Indiana was (despite losing 4-0) the hardest east-oppononent the Cavs faced last year.

[Dadouv47]

If they are hot from 3, we have no shot against the warriors anyway. With Roberson we can defend better from the inside and not allow them to attack the paint too much. Having Abrines on Klay would be a disaster. Saying ''Klay is a catch up and shooter'' is a bit exaggerated. He can get past Abrines and make an easy two. Would not be the same with Roberson.

[hardenASG13]

If they are hot from 3, we have no shot against the warriors anyway. With Roberson we can defend better from the inside and not allow them to attack the paint too much. Having Abrines on Klay would be a disaster. Saying ''Klay is a catch up and shooter'' is a bit exaggerated. He can get past Abrines and make an easy two. Would not be the same with Roberson.

Roberson is obviously the better defender. If they wanted to have klay dribble at abrines I'd be good with that. I'm also a fan of grant and think he takes a step up. Just don't think Roberson can stand in the corner not wanting to shoot for 30 minutes a game either vs. them, or anyone. Judging by last year's playoffs, it's pretty easy to set us scenarios where Roberson is switched off the ball anyway, which kinda negates the only reason he's out there.

[hardenASG13]

I do but we've done this before. And having a bunch of one way offensive players would seem like an ideal role for Roberson. You just lost a bunch of defense in the lineup with Melo. But I dont really care anymore because nobody's convincing you anything anyway.

I think (and hope) melo as a defensive liability has been greatly exaggerated. His teams and rosters have stunk. And I don't think we've discussed Roberson in relation to this year's team in the past at all, seeing as how so much has changed. That's what i was/am doing here, and you jumped in with your new I need info motto, despite no info being available on the current team as they haven't played a game.

Melo has never in his career been a decent defender and has played on better rosters than last year. Meanwhile you remove anothwr plus defender and end up with bad defense. Weve never in 13 years seen a good defender in Melo and ading him to a lineup only increases the need for another defender.

Who is the one way defensive wing on golden state? Who was it on the Cavs 2 years ago? How about those heat Teams? Or Dallas that Won? Or the big 3 Celtics teams? Or the kobe/gasol Lakers? It's just such a crazy notion in the modern NBA at the championship level. Not talking advanced metrics, wins above replacement, or any other regular season stats. 7 game series, playoffs, title contenders. Just haven't used them in the modern NBA. Only name could be Danny green, and he could hit three's, in bunches at times. If only Roberson could develop that one skill.

[Dadouv47]

If they are hot from 3, we have no shot against the warriors anyway. With Roberson we can defend better from the inside and not allow them to attack the paint too much. Having Abrines on Klay would be a disaster. Saying ''Klay is a catch up and shooter'' is a bit exaggerated. He can get past Abrines and make an easy two. Would not be the same with Roberson.

Roberson is obviously the better defender. If they wanted to have klay dribble at abrines I'd be good with that. I'm also a fan of grant and think he takes a step up. Just don't think Roberson can stand in the corner not wanting to shoot for 30 minutes a game either vs. them, or anyone. Judging by last year's playoffs, it's pretty easy to set us scenarios where Roberson is switched off the ball anyway, which kinda negates the only reason he's out there.

You can't judge by last years playoffs. We have Paul George and Carmelo instead of Taj Gibson and Oladipo. On the offensive end, we are closer to 2015-2016 team (even if cupcake/ibaka > PG13/Carmelo)

[bondom34]

I think (and hope) melo as a defensive liability has been greatly exaggerated. His teams and rosters have stunk. And I don't think we've discussed Roberson in relation to this year's team in the past at all, seeing as how so much has changed. That's what i was/am doing here, and you jumped in with your new I need info motto, despite no info being available on the current team as they haven't played a game.

Melo has never in his career been a decent defender and has played on better rosters than last year. Meanwhile you remove anothwr plus defender and end up with bad defense. Weve never in 13 years seen a good defender in Melo and ading him to a lineup only increases the need for another defender.

Who is the one way defensive wing on golden state? Who was it on the Cavs 2 years ago? How about those heat Teams? Or Dallas that Won? Or the big 3 Celtics teams? Or the kobe/gasol Lakers? It's just such a crazy notion in the modern NBA at the championship level. Not talking advanced metrics, wins above replacement, or any other regular season stats. 7 game series, playoffs, title contenders. Just haven't used them in the modern NBA. Only name could be Danny green, and he could hit three's, in bunches at times. If only Roberson could develop that one skill.

All those teams had great defensera. And who werre the 1way iso heavy PFs? Because if you want to play that way none of those teams had guys as limited as defensively. All were great defenses.

[spearsy23]

Who was it on the Cavs 2 years ago? How about those heat Teams? Or Dallas that Won? Or the big 3 Celtics teams?

Iman Shumpert
Norris Cole
Deshawn Stevenson
Tony Allen

[spearsy23]

I think he will continue...for the rest of his career because it's mental now.

There is a similar feeling on this board in regard to the redundancy of your posts.

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[sleestak33]

I think he will continue...for the rest of his career because it's mental now.

There is a similar feeling on this board in regard to the redundancy of your posts.

That's right buddy...you keep defending a wing player who just set the all time worst free throw percentage in the history of an NBA playoff series going 3-21 and singlehandedly losing game 4 going 2-12. Just another recap on Roberson's numbers in the 4 games they played the Warriors this year...13 points shot 0-10 on 3 pointers (I'm not joking) 1-4 on free throws allowed KD to average 37 points per game and in the last game Thompson had 34 on him. But yeah, that guy should start because he's really something on defense...he's VERSATILE. LMAO.

[RalphSampsonJr]

I see we have yet again come back around again to the same argument..
Just know that Billy (an NBA level coach getting paid millions) will continue to play him 25-30 minutes this season so strap yourselves in for a LONG season.
I'll be sitting there enjoying the games, while you guys watch in frustration thinking you know better than a professional NBA coach..

[hardenASG13]

If they are hot from 3, we have no shot against the warriors anyway. With Roberson we can defend better from the inside and not allow them to attack the paint too much. Having Abrines on Klay would be a disaster. Saying ''Klay is a catch up and shooter'' is a bit exaggerated. He can get past Abrines and make an easy two. Would not be the same with Roberson.

Roberson is obviously the better defender. If they wanted to have klay dribble at abrines I'd be good with that. I'm also a fan of grant and think he takes a step up. Just don't think Roberson can stand in the corner not wanting to shoot for 30 minutes a game either vs. them, or anyone. Judging by last year's playoffs, it's pretty easy to set us scenarios where Roberson is switched off the ball anyway, which kinda negates the only reason he's out there.

You can't judge by last years playoffs. We have Paul George and Carmelo instead of Taj Gibson and Oladipo. On the offensive end, we are closer to 2015-2016 team (even if cupcake/ibaka > PG13/Carmelo)

I think not upgrading Roberson was the reason they lost to the warriors that year. They played their best ball when waiters had it going in the playoffs. Going by all the talent they had, they underachieved record wise, largely due to having to play 4 on 5. Durant left the year after.

When Durant (mistakenly) revealed he left because he "couldn't win a title with those guys", who do you think he was referring to? Westbrook?Adams? Or guys like Roberson, that no other stars have to tolerate playing with. Why play handicapped 4 on 5 offense, when the rest of the league doesn't have to, and it's not necessary as the talent pool is the best players in the world. That team could've outgunned golden State, and Robersons D didn't do much to stop anyone.

As a positive aside, I don't think KD/ibaka is better offensively than PG/melo. Kd is better than George, but both play similar games, while melo is way better offensively than 2015-16 ibaka, who basically shot open elbow and angle midrange jumpers or wide open 3s.

[ThunderBolt]

I think he will continue...for the rest of his career because it's mental now.

There is a similar feeling on this board in regard to the redundancy of your posts.

That's right buddy...you keep defending a wing player who just set the all time worst free throw percentage in the history of an NBA playoff series going 3-21 and singlehandedly losing game 4 going 2-12. Just another recap on Roberson's numbers in the 4 games they played the Warriors this year...13 points shot 0-10 on 3 pointers (I'm not joking) 1-4 on free throws allowed KD to average 37 points per game and in the last game Thompson had 34 on him. But yeah, that guy should start because he's really something on defense...he's VERSATILE. LMAO.

You don’t know what I would say because you don’t read others posts. You just repeat the same stats and don’t answer questions people pose to you. Truthfully, you’re just trolling because it’s the same freaking post every time. I don’t care that your opinion is wrong, but the fact that you can’t have an intelligent conversation shows that you want to do nothing but spew the 4 stats you know and derail multiple threads with your posts. Troll.

[hardenASG13]

Who was it on the Cavs 2 years ago? How about those heat Teams? Or Dallas that Won? Or the big 3 Celtics teams?

Iman Shumpert
Norris Cole
Deshawn Stevenson
Tony Allen

Hahaha thanks again for making my point for me guys (saying guys here due to the AND 1).

So you mean iman shumpert, who came off the bench 15 minutes a game in the finals, behind defensive stalwart JR Smith who played 30 plus mpg in the finals?

Or Norris Cole (miss you NoCo!!) Who also came off the bench for Miami, played 15mpg in the finals, behind stopper Mario Chalmers.....and was a point guard?

Or deshawn Stevenson, who like the above guys played about 15 minutes per game in the finals, and was pulled from the starting lineup for defensive specialist JJ Barea after game 2, which ultimately propelled the mavs to the title (JJ was a huge x factor.....and not because of his D).

Or are you talking about Tony Allen, who appeared in 3 of the 7 finals games.....for 17 total minutes, playing less then Eddie "shutdown" house.

Take off the blinders, fellas. Those guys didn't play much on those teams. The better offensive options did, all of whom weren't strong defenders. They were all well coached, and played the appropriate 15 or so min a game, except for Allen (your poster boy for a Roberson comparison), who barely touched the floor in the finals. The 1 game Stevenson played close to 30 minutes, it's because he was hitting shots.

All those guys were better offensively than Roberson. Sorry to crush your argument here, but open your eyes to reality.

[hardenASG13]

I see we have yet again come back around again to the same argument..
Just know that Billy (an NBA level coach getting paid millions) will continue to play him 25-30 minutes this season so strap yourselves in for a LONG season.
I'll be sitting there enjoying the games, while you guys watch in frustration thinking you know better than a professional NBA coach..

See the above post, regarding title teams and how much they played their defensive specialists, and who played over them. Those teams were well coached and won titles. They don't play their defensive specialist 30 minutes a night, or anything close to it.