"A Nation Divided, Sports United" ~ The Equality & Other Issues Thread

[truth18]

Just want to repeat a fact that seems useful in the discussion you two are having:

Nate Boyer, a white Green Beret, and Kaepernick's teammate, is the one who suggested this type of kneeling protest as a middle ground of respect (kneeling is a sign of respect in the military). Previously, Kaepernick had been sitting on the bench.

Makes sense, you missed a good part of my point. Nate Boyer was born in 1981. The Army Ranger flipping out at the Elks lodge over this insult was born in the 1931.

I understand, just reiterating some key info.

Great points on the age of the government btw. I read an article not long ago discussing how we are one of the few world powers consistently electing older representatives.

[ViperGTS]

Not only do endless statistics definitively prove bias and racism on endless fronts, statistics do not tell the story of un- or under-reported crimes, or many of the thousands of ways in which racism is insidiously embedded on our society and its institutions.

I think anyone in this discussion should make it a point to spend more time in the hood, for lack of a better way to put it. You will very not likely get robbed if you are there in the daytime, acting correctly.

Talk to people about their lives. Chances are, it will all make sense then. When you hear grandmothers talk about how they can't go outside at night, and how 911 doesn't come when they call, and how their 13yo honor student grandson was made to lie spread-eagled on the ground by police with a drawn gun on them.

What happens in these communities is not right. Like, deeply and profoundly so. And denying that is takes place, or being mad at them for being upset about it? 100% inexcusable.

Why do people expect people to salute a flag that represents their exploitation and oppression? No, really?

Grandmothers can’t go out at night and cops don’t come when called because.....most of them are stuck in a war zone. Also, most of the worst areas in the country for these types of areas are...LA, Chicago and other places where the criminals carry firearms yet the citizens aren’t really allowed to. So that’s generally breeds that type of attitude. Also, when grandmas 13 year old honor student is walking home in an area like that and matches the description of a possible shooter...what are the cops supposed to do? Does he have a sign saying I’m an honors student?

Again, these are problems that people refuse to look at, instead try to use crutches as you have here to not have to do that. Also, who generally runs those areas? Democrats. Democrat mayors, Democrat city councils. Now, I’m not saying republicans wouldn’t be doing the same. It’s very possible they would be. However that’s not the point of the discussion.

As had been discussed elsewhere, what is happening in the inner cities is basically a plantation mentality. The city managers are the overseers. They provide basic necessities (welfare) that perpetuate the cycle of hopelessness. There is no real effort to advocate for strong families because this may eventually curb this cycle. Thus the children, the majority who probably don’t even know who their fathers are cannot make it out.

These are the real discussions that need to happen and drastic changes are needed.

These are very racist statements.
It reminds me of the character "Archie Bunker".

"plantation mentality."
"Thus the children, the majority who probably don’t even know who their fathers are cannot make it out."

Where did you get this story?


This Thread, has nothing to do with the politics, that you name.
And this Thread is Not about an isolated incident.

It's specifically, about Athletes taking a stand (or knee), against injustices that they perceive.
The Injustices are Real. The Protests are Real.

All this other stuff, that you're talking about.
Doesn't have a place here.

Find another home, for your Rhetoric.
Stick to the Subject.

Racist statements? Are you serious?

Yeah the modern inner city is setup similarly to the plantations of old. No chance of hope, little money, basic healthcare if any, and no family structure. How that is racist...is the exact reason we can’t have discussions to fix things.

As far as why I listed this, it’s in response to what someone posted in reply. If it as so racist, why hasn’t it been deleted? It hasn’t because it’s is a valid comparisons and one that’s too shocking for people to understand. You realize I’m taking a shot at the WHITE and some minorities people who are running these cities. I’m NOT taking a shot at the people who live there.

Your “you have racist tendencies (this is what you are saying) and want to change the narrative is exactly why this is a problem and never will get fixed. That’s what people on your side so, and why I knew once the real problems for discussed this type of reaction would happen. If you think all this has nothing to do with the protests you are wrong.

Don’t worry. I know I’m not a racist, your reaction not withstanding. Because only racists would state what I did, correct?

[truth18]

Grandmothers can’t go out at night and cops don’t come when called because.....most of them are stuck in a war zone. Also, most of the worst areas in the country for these types of areas are...LA, Chicago and other places where the criminals carry firearms yet the citizens aren’t really allowed to. So that’s generally breeds that type of attitude. Also, when grandmas 13 year old honor student is walking home in an area like that and matches the description of a possible shooter...what are the cops supposed to do? Does he have a sign saying I’m an honors student?

Again, these are problems that people refuse to look at, instead try to use crutches as you have here to not have to do that. Also, who generally runs those areas? Democrats. Democrat mayors, Democrat city councils. Now, I’m not saying republicans wouldn’t be doing the same. It’s very possible they would be. However that’s not the point of the discussion.

As had been discussed elsewhere, what is happening in the inner cities is basically a plantation mentality. The city managers are the overseers. They provide basic necessities (welfare) that perpetuate the cycle of hopelessness. There is no real effort to advocate for strong families because this may eventually curb this cycle. Thus the children, the majority who probably don’t even know who their fathers are cannot make it out.

These are the real discussions that need to happen and drastic changes are needed.

These are very racist statements.
It reminds me of the character "Archie Bunker".

"plantation mentality."
"Thus the children, the majority who probably don’t even know who their fathers are cannot make it out."

Where did you get this story?


This Thread, has nothing to do with the politics, that you name.
And this Thread is Not about an isolated incident.

It's specifically, about Athletes taking a stand (or knee), against injustices that they perceive.
The Injustices are Real. The Protests are Real.

All this other stuff, that you're talking about.
Doesn't have a place here.

Find another home, for your Rhetoric.
Stick to the Subject.

Racist statements? Are you serious?

Yeah the modern inner city is setup similarly to the plantations of old. No chance of hope, little money, basic healthcare if any, and no family structure. How that is racist...is the exact reason we can’t have discussions to fix things.

As far as why I listed this, it’s in response to what someone posted in reply. If it as so racist, why hasn’t it been deleted? It hasn’t because it’s is a valid comparisons and one that’s too shocking for people to understand. You realize I’m taking a shot at the WHITE and some minorities people who are running these cities. I’m NOT taking a shot at the people who love there.

Your “your have racist tendencies (this is what you are saying) and want to change the narrative is exactly why this is a problem and never will get fixed. That’s what people on your side so, and why I knew once the real problems for discussed this type of reaction would happen. If you think all this has nothing to do with the protests you are wrong.

Don’t worry. I know I’m not a racist, your reaction not withstanding. Because only racists would state what I did, correct?

Parl is a reasonable dude. Big Baby's posts made the thread tense for a min there, I'm going to attribute his response to that.

We disagree on some non basketball points but I know you pretty well and its very clear you're not a racist guy.

[Parliament10]

These are very racist statements.
It reminds me of the character "Archie Bunker".

"plantation mentality."
"Thus the children, the majority who probably don’t even know who their fathers are cannot make it out."

Where did you get this story?


This Thread, has nothing to do with the politics, that you name.
And this Thread is Not about an isolated incident.

It's specifically, about Athletes taking a stand (or knee), against injustices that they perceive.
The Injustices are Real. The Protests are Real.

All this other stuff, that you're talking about.
Doesn't have a place here.

Find another home, for your Rhetoric.
Stick to the Subject.

Racist statements? Are you serious?

Yeah the modern inner city is setup similarly to the plantations of old. No chance of hope, little money, basic healthcare if any, and no family structure. How that is racist...is the exact reason we can’t have discussions to fix things.

As far as why I listed this, it’s in response to what someone posted in reply. If it as so racist, why hasn’t it been deleted? It hasn’t because it’s is a valid comparisons and one that’s too shocking for people to understand. You realize I’m taking a shot at the WHITE and some minorities people who are running these cities. I’m NOT taking a shot at the people who love there.

Your “your have racist tendencies (this is what you are saying) and want to change the narrative is exactly why this is a problem and never will get fixed. That’s what people on your side so, and why I knew once the real problems for discussed this type of reaction would happen. If you think all this has nothing to do with the protests you are wrong.

Don’t worry. I know I’m not a racist, your reaction not withstanding. Because only racists would state what I did, correct?

Parl is a reasonable dude. Big Baby's posts made the thread tense for a min there, I'm going to attribute his response to that.

We disagree on some non basketball points but I know you pretty well and its very clear you're not a racist guy.

Ok. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, then.

[ViperGTS]

These are very racist statements.
It reminds me of the character "Archie Bunker".

"plantation mentality."
"Thus the children, the majority who probably don’t even know who their fathers are cannot make it out."

Where did you get this story?


This Thread, has nothing to do with the politics, that you name.
And this Thread is Not about an isolated incident.

It's specifically, about Athletes taking a stand (or knee), against injustices that they perceive.
The Injustices are Real. The Protests are Real.

All this other stuff, that you're talking about.
Doesn't have a place here.

Find another home, for your Rhetoric.
Stick to the Subject.

Racist statements? Are you serious?

Yeah the modern inner city is setup similarly to the plantations of old. No chance of hope, little money, basic healthcare if any, and no family structure. How that is racist...is the exact reason we can’t have discussions to fix things.

As far as why I listed this, it’s in response to what someone posted in reply. If it as so racist, why hasn’t it been deleted? It hasn’t because it’s is a valid comparisons and one that’s too shocking for people to understand. You realize I’m taking a shot at the WHITE and some minorities people who are running these cities. I’m NOT taking a shot at the people who love there.

Your “your have racist tendencies (this is what you are saying) and want to change the narrative is exactly why this is a problem and never will get fixed. That’s what people on your side so, and why I knew once the real problems for discussed this type of reaction would happen. If you think all this has nothing to do with the protests you are wrong.

Don’t worry. I know I’m not a racist, your reaction not withstanding. Because only racists would state what I did, correct?

Parl is a reasonable dude. Big Baby's posts made the thread tense for a min there, I'm going to attribute his response to that.

We disagree on some non basketball points but I know you pretty well and its very clear you're not a racist guy.

Thank you. I’m not trying to ruffle any feathers but have appreciated the discussion here and some things are tough to discuss. I’m learning some things myself along the way.

[Parliament10]

Racist statements? Are you serious?

Yeah the modern inner city is setup similarly to the plantations of old. No chance of hope, little money, basic healthcare if any, and no family structure. How that is racist...is the exact reason we can’t have discussions to fix things.

As far as why I listed this, it’s in response to what someone posted in reply. If it as so racist, why hasn’t it been deleted? It hasn’t because it’s is a valid comparisons and one that’s too shocking for people to understand. You realize I’m taking a shot at the WHITE and some minorities people who are running these cities. I’m NOT taking a shot at the people who love there.

Your “your have racist tendencies (this is what you are saying) and want to change the narrative is exactly why this is a problem and never will get fixed. That’s what people on your side so, and why I knew once the real problems for discussed this type of reaction would happen. If you think all this has nothing to do with the protests you are wrong.

Don’t worry. I know I’m not a racist, your reaction not withstanding. Because only racists would state what I did, correct?

Parl is a reasonable dude. Big Baby's posts made the thread tense for a min there, I'm going to attribute his response to that.

We disagree on some non basketball points but I know you pretty well and its very clear you're not a racist guy.

Thank you. I’m not trying to ruffle any feathers but have appreciated the discussion here and some things are tough to discuss. I’m learning some things myself along the way.

Very True. Something's are tough to discuss.

[Big Baby]

Trump out there applauding white supremacists, but Obama was against black people. Great call.

Awful take.

Caveman

America is a basketball team. There are 15 players on the roster. But two of its players are perpetually disgruntled. They're constantly bitching about their roles and how they're being mistreated. Should the entire team be disrupted, inconvenienced and forced to adjust to placate those disgruntled two?

In what ways has Trump empowered white supremacists? In what ways has he improved their standard of living while simultaneously hurting black Americans pocket book?

Because at the end of the day, if you had to choose between having a "safe space" all across America (metaphorically speaking; still impossible to achieve in your lifetime) vs having a nice family and home to belong to, you'll always take the latter, right?

I can give you a long list of factual evidence of how blacks fared WORSE under Obama than his predecessors. But can you tell me how KKK and their ilk are doing better under Trump?

Are you armed with evidence or just feels?

I love you by the way, bro. Let's go Celtics.

[Parliament10]

Trump out there applauding white supremacists, but Obama was against black people. Great call.

Awful take.

Caveman

America is a basketball team. There are 15 players on the roster. But two of its players are perpetually disgruntled. They're constantly bitching about their roles and how they're being mistreated. Should the entire team be disrupted, inconvenienced and forced to adjust to placate those disgruntled two?

In what ways has Trump empowered white supremacists? In what ways has he improved their standard of living while simultaneously hurting black Americans pocket book?

Because at the end of the day, if you had to choose between having a "safe space" all across America (metaphorically speaking; still impossible to achieve in your lifetime) vs having a nice family and home to belong to, you'll always take the latter, right?

I can give you a long list of factual evidence of how blacks fared WORSE under Obama than his predecessors. But can you tell me how KKK and their ilk are doing better under Trump?

Are you armed with evidence or just feels?

I love you by the way, bro. Let's go Celtics.

What does this have to do with Police Violence, and the Disproportionate way that Minorities are being killed by Police?

[fallguy]

Is there a remaining defensible reason to be a Trump supporter?

[Captain_Caveman]

Trump out there applauding white supremacists, but Obama was against black people. Great call.

Awful take.

Caveman

America is a basketball team. There are 15 players on the roster. But two of its players are perpetually disgruntled. They're constantly bitching about their roles and how they're being mistreated. Should the entire team be disrupted, inconvenienced and forced to adjust to placate those disgruntled two?

In what ways has Trump empowered white supremacists? In what ways has he improved their standard of living while simultaneously hurting black Americans pocket book?

Because at the end of the day, if you had to choose between having a "safe space" all across America (metaphorically speaking; still impossible to achieve in your lifetime) vs having a nice family and home to belong to, you'll always take the latter, right?

I can give you a long list of factual evidence of how blacks fared WORSE under Obama than his predecessors. But can you tell me how KKK and their ilk are doing better under Trump?

Are you armed with evidence or just feels?

I love you by the way, bro. Let's go Celtics.

I don't think you mean poorly, and you probably don't understand how racist your opinions are. But they are. A lot of ignorant people are filling your head full of ignorant ****, and I don't expect to turn the tide on that in this thread. So no... not going to get into a "facts" argument with someone that is citing fake ones. If you are going to lead with citing a hateful boob like Ben Shapiro, I certainly don't need to hear anything that follows.

What I *will* say for others reading along is that this is not a "difference of opinion". The things you are saying are racist and unacceptable, and it has little to do with politics. The part that is political is also clearly bull **** on your end. You are very clearly trying to say that Trump has been better for black people than Obama, and that is literally insane. You are questioning what Trump has done to empower white supremacists, which is also insane. Just start by giving Steve Bannon and others positions in his administration's inner circle.

I don't know what if any experience you truly have with people of color, but I would encourage you to open your mind and heart a little.

[Captain_Caveman]

Is there a remaining defensible reason to be a Trump supporter?

There never was.

An incompetent, immoral, apolitical demagogue who stands for nothing but his own greed.

He can't even get a hand up, and the closest thing he has to an achievement so far is bending over for the minority party on DACA.

But he projected strength to people who feel weak, and this is enough for them. They will never change their minds, no matter what.

[Big Baby]

Is there a remaining defensible reason to be a Trump supporter?

Yeah. It kept the Clintons out of the WH thank God. And good or bad, it sent a strong message to the establishment that their status quo will be challenged. Hell of a lot more effective than anything the left has done to bring about change.

[fallguy]

Is there a remaining defensible reason to be a Trump supporter?

There never was.

An incompetent, immoral, apolitical demagogue who stands for nothing but his own greed.

He can't even get a hand up, and the closest thing he has to an achievement so far is bending over for the minority party on DACA.

But he projected strength to people who feel weak, and this is enough for them. They will never change their minds, no matter what.

Yeah, my assumption at this point is that his remaining loyalists - those that think he is doing a good job or refuse to acknowledge how horrific he truly is - are just scared and/or uneducated people who are probably overmatched by life.

[AlCelticFan]

So what are the top solutions? If we needed to pick 3 changes that would turn these social issues around, what would those 3 things be so that collectively we can push for them?

[Big Baby]

So what are the top solutions? If we needed to pick 3 changes that would turn these social issues around, what would those 3 things be so that collectively we can push for them?

1. Get rid of the minimum wage and eliminate 80% of all government agencies and services including welfare to individuals and corporations alike.
2. Strip power from Washington and return it to each state. Restore all individual freedom and repeal the Patriot Act.
3. Release all non violent drug inmates (unless they dealt with minors) and legalize drugs.

Many, many more things to do but these wouldn't be a bad place to start.

[Captain_Caveman]

Is there a remaining defensible reason to be a Trump supporter?

There never was.

An incompetent, immoral, apolitical demagogue who stands for nothing but his own greed.

He can't even get a hand up, and the closest thing he has to an achievement so far is bending over for the minority party on DACA.

But he projected strength to people who feel weak, and this is enough for them. They will never change their minds, no matter what.

Yeah, my assumption at this point is that his remaining loyalists - those that think he is doing a good job or refuse to acknowledge how horrific he truly is - are just scared and/or uneducated people who are probably overmatched by life.

Crazy fact: Nixon still had a 24% approval rating after resigning from office over Watergate.

[AlCelticFan]

So what are the top solutions? If we needed to pick 3 changes that would turn these social issues around, what would those 3 things be so that collectively we can push for them?

1. Get rid of the minimum wage and eliminate 80% of all government agencies and services including welfare to individuals and corporations alike.
2. Strip power from Washington and return it to each state. Restore all individual freedom and repeal the Patriot Act.
3. Release all non violent drug inmates (unless they dealt with minors) and legalize drugs.

Many, many more things to do but these wouldn't be a bad place to start.

The only one with any hope of happening in the next 25 years is #3. I'd like to see all drugs decriminalized, and non-violent offenders retroactively released.

Not sure how #2 necessarily helps social justice. I'm sure many would argue it hurts it.

#1 is also contentious, and I don't claim to have enough economic understanding to argue it. (I'd need a PhD in economics at minimum to feel comfortable going there, personally). I also don't see how this helps social justice.

[165bows]

Probably unpopular opinion but I'm very glad Silver nipped this in the bud.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Getting rid of the minimum wage, which is arguably too low, and eliminating eighty percent of government agencies, are dangerous ideas. They would result in greater exploitation of working people and a lack of protection from the amorality of private industry.

We’ve seen this unfold in counties that voted Trump and simultaneously gutted the social programs that were providing them with jobs.

[Andrew McCeltic]

1 isn’t contentious, it’s an extreme idea, you don’t need a PhD to understand it. It’s like saying we should get rid of child labor laws. Or that the government should take over every single industry.