Player of the Day: Andre Roberson

[RalphSampsonJr]

Umm according to bondom antagonizing and personal attacks are against board rules......but if we're taking shots, way to be a follower/tag along to people on a message board, in an effort (I'm assuming) for social approval

I hope your a teenager, not a grown man

I'm not tagging along at all. Roberson is one of my favourite players and have been trying to explain what he does on the court to anyone that will listen.
It just gets very hard these days as people don't look at it the same way they do offense. People like watching the ball go in the basket but don't appreciate what else goes on on the court.

People like yourself don't have this appreciation for defense and it seems to cause the same arguement when the chance presents itself.

Robes will start. He will play 25-30 minutes a night.
I will sit and marvel at what he brings to the thunder this season. You can sit there and think you know more than ALL of the thunder coaching staff but it won't chance the fact

1. You most certainly were tagging along, that's all your post was. You've done it several times since joining.

2. I appreciate defense, just not from a player, in the best league in the world, who can't play any offense on the perimeter, which is necessary in the game today. If he didn't force them to play 4 on 5 offensively I'd love him. His defense is great. But not so great where he plays 30mpg, or close to it. That's just not fair to the offense, and not sustainable at the championship level. The evidence, as I presented, is in champions over the last decade.

I definitely wasn't tagging along. It may seem like it as there are very few people that agree with your view..

So you don't want to use stats as evidence to support your claim yet you want to use past teams success?!
This is why it seems like I'm "tagging" along. Because your view is fundermentally flawed. I am yet to see any hard factual evidence from you or Sleestak.
Its cool to have an opinion and stand by it but when you can't give anyone any facts as to why Robes hurts the Offense yet bring it up every thread you make yourself look silly.

Just give anyone any type of evidence that supports your view. I am genuinely curious to see if anyone can give me some numbers that show Robes is hurting the thunder by playing 25-30 mins?

Until then you will find people may seem to "tag along" and argue with your point of biew

[sleestak33]

I think it's clear that HardenASG13 and myself are on the same page in that we simply don't think Roberson should start and his minutes should be limited to 14-16 per game so that he doesn't negatively impact the game so much as he does when playing 30+ minutes. Anybody who thinks that Roberson doesn't cost the team points offensively simply doesn't know basketball or just is pushing their agenda so much their blinded by facts. When he's out there for that long there is no question that he can cost the team anywhere from 8 to as much as 20 points in some games with his historically pathetic offense. Game 4 against Houston was a perfect example as he singlehandedly lost that one going 2-12 on free throws. As a backup role player coming off the bench he could effectively rest the starter for a few minutes at a time and he's not going to really hurt the team so much in limited stretches of 3-5 minutes. I still would much rather have kept Perry Jones or Jeremy Lamb because obviously between these 3 players either one of them had a MUCH higher upside and if Presti would have kept one of them and put them in the role Roberson has had for the last 4 years as a starter and worked with developing them defensively we obviously would have a MUCH better overall player but now we're stuck with a completely one dimensional defensive role player who will never be anything offensively so they need to put him into a rotational role as a backup where he can be the most effective.

[bondom34]

Paragraphs

[RalphSampsonJr]

HardenASG13 and myself are on the same page in that we simply don't think Roberson should start and his minutes should be limited to 14-16 per game so that he doesn't negatively impact the game so much as he does when playing 30+ minutes. Anybody who thinks that Roberson doesn't cost the team points offensively simply doesn't know basketball or just is pushing their agenda so much their blinded by facts. When he's out there for that long there is no question that he can cost the team anywhere from 8 to as much as 20 points in some games with his historically pathetic offense.

What FACTS?! You haven't presented any facts!!
"No question he can cost the team anywhere from 8 to as much as 20 points" - what is this?? This is made up rubbish.. I don't understand how people want to make up something and think it proves their point.
He sucks at shooting. His fg% is factual evidence of this.
HOWEVER this does not prove he hurts the thunders offense.
He shot terrible free throw %. This is facts also. He has all his career.
HOWEVER! Again this does not prove that him being on the floor hurts the thunder on offense!

What is hard to understand about what I have just explained? You state your claim then support it with evidence. This has not been done ONCE by either of you two AntiRobersons.

Just give me any type of statistical evidence that shows his poor shooting hurts the thunders offense as a whole?? Any at all I would love to see some!

CLAIMING he gives up "8 to 20 points with his horrific offense" makes your case look fictitious and silly.

[Andre Roberstan]

I still would much rather have kept Perry Jones or Jeremy Lamb because obviously between these 3 players either one of them had a MUCH higher upside and if Presti would have kept one of them and put them in the role Roberson has had for the last 4 years as a starter and worked with developing them defensively we obviously would have a MUCH better overall player but now we're stuck with a completely one dimensional defensive role player who will never be anything offensively so they need to put him into a rotational role as a backup where he can be the most effective.

me reading someone saying that Perry Jones the Freaking Third should have been kept over Andre Roberson in the Year of Our Lord 2017



EDIT: I got on Ralph for contentless posts earlier, so we should note: Perry Jones got traded for a top-55 protected second-round pick, then got cut from training camp with the Celtics (they kept Jordan Mickey and Gerald Green over him), then went to the D-League, then washed out of the D-League, then went overseas to freaking Russia, then came back to the states and is now trying to prove himself on a training camp deal with the Pelicans, who have a hole at small forward you could drive an aircraft carrier through and STILL will not give him guaranteed money.

[RalphSampsonJr]

I still would much rather have kept Perry Jones or Jeremy Lamb because obviously between these 3 players either one of them had a MUCH higher upside and if Presti would have kept one of them and put them in the role Roberson has had for the last 4 years as a starter and worked with developing them defensively we obviously would have a MUCH better overall player but now we're stuck with a completely one dimensional defensive role player who will never be anything offensively so they need to put him into a rotational role as a backup where he can be the most effective.

me reading someone saying that Perry Jones the Freaking Third should have been kept over Andre Roberson in the Year of Our Lord 2017

crazy isn't it. Boggles the mind

[ThunderBolt]

Hahahaha. I wonder if sleek punched his iPad when he read this.

JCD said:
In your last chat you said that Roberson gives the Thunder the best chance to compete with the Warriors. Here are his numbers from the 4 games OKC played them last year: 132 minutes played he had only 13 points, 0-10 on 3 pointers (I'm not joking), 1-4 on 3 pointers, KD averaged 37 pts. per game against him and in the last game Thompson had 34. I'm not understanding how anybody could have watched those 4 games and make the claim that Roberson is some sort of a positive going forward. That doesn't even mention how much he costs the team since his man literally doesn't even have to guard him which mucks up the offense for everybody else. The closest game against the Warriors last year was 16 points. I will argue exactly the opposite of your claim and say that the only way OKC has any chance to compete with the Warriors is if Roberson never steps on the court and frankly if the Thunder is going to make any kind of a championship run he must come off the bench and play limited minutes because the problems his pathetic offense causes are too great to overcome when they play teams like the Spurs, Warriors and Rockets.

Berry Tramel replied:
Please do yourself a favor and continue to use initials, so that people can't identify the literal weakest basketball mind in the five-country region. Here is what you're saying.
1. Basketball games are won by the numbers on the backs of bubble gum cards.
2. Arguments are won by promoting the stuff that doesn't matter and ignoring the stuff that does.
3. Defense has no effect on winning.
Roberson was a good and effective offensive player in the Thunder's last two playoff series. Roberson is one of the best wing defenders in the NBA. Teams that can't guard on the perimeter against Golden State have no chance.

[hardenASG13]

1. I know he's listed at sg.....

great!

What does he do offensively like a sg?

sigh! i thought we were having a breakthrough. positional archetypes are that important to you? didn't you just suggest paul george play a position he hasn't played in five seasons? andre roberson has been playing SG most of his nba career, to positive effect. he's a shooting guard whether your personal definition says so or not! sorry.

2. There's no way to know who was available.....they just traded sabonis, oladipo, kanter and Doug for Carmel and PG tho. Things happen.

you need to substantiate your claim. you claim that there are players 'out there' who could give us offense and defense at shooting guard. who are they? how do we get them? here's what you said:

My point is he should be replaced with someone who is competent defensively, and average on offense . Those players exist, and are are always available

i agree wholeheartedly with you if there was an opportunity to upgrade starting shooting guard with a better player than andre roberson, then that should have been pursued. certainly if you've put any thought into these posts you have some examples for us...? you say they are always available. who are they?

3. He hasn't, doesn't mean he can't. Put 5 guys with size and athleticsm out there, they will defend if they want to win. Don't think PG can/would play guard alongside westbrook?

or you could, i dunno, put the guy out there who makes our defense good. instead of putting others in positions they are less effective playing. tough decision.

did you know paul george hasn't played SG much since his 2nd season? i doubt you did. you acknowledge the 'changing nba' but want to put a big wing like george at SG? i think you're confused.

4. I never said starting lineup. Another instance of you pulling what you want from something instead of seeing the substance (see how lame of a reply that is?). But really, never said it.

you said:which would have abrines and Westbrook in the backcourt (Westbrook needs to play some D), with George, melo and Adams.

abrines with the rest of the starters except roberson sounds like the starting lineup with abrines to me, doesn't it?

Typical cut and paste job from you on the first point, nice!

Second, 2 and 3 are the same, except the 2 handles the ball more. Not Roberson though, he doesn't dribble. Call him a 2 if you want, I call him the guy that stands in the corner hoping the ball doesn't come his way.

Third.....did you think PG was available for oladipo and sabonis? I didn't, just like neither of us knows who's been available, and for what. Okc got Gibson, McDermott and a pick for cam payne. Trades and signings happen, it should've been prioritized is what I'm saying.

Fourth, so you don't think PG and melo on the wings is a good combo. What does it matter what they are listed at?

And lastly......never said starters. A lineup can play the majority of minutes and not start. You pull lines like that all the time, and accuse people of not reading or comprehending your points, often when your points are weak or have been effectively countered. Common way people who are wrong divert attention away from the point of the discussion. You don't seem to like when it's done to you...

[RalphSampsonJr]

Hahahaha. I wonder if sleek punched his iPad when he read this.

JCD said:
In your last chat you said that Roberson gives the Thunder the best chance to compete with the Warriors. Here are his numbers from the 4 games OKC played them last year: 132 minutes played he had only 13 points, 0-10 on 3 pointers (I'm not joking), 1-4 on 3 pointers, KD averaged 37 pts. per game against him and in the last game Thompson had 34. I'm not understanding how anybody could have watched those 4 games and make the claim that Roberson is some sort of a positive going forward. That doesn't even mention how much he costs the team since his man literally doesn't even have to guard him which mucks up the offense for everybody else. The closest game against the Warriors last year was 16 points. I will argue exactly the opposite of your claim and say that the only way OKC has any chance to compete with the Warriors is if Roberson never steps on the court and frankly if the Thunder is going to make any kind of a championship run he must come off the bench and play limited minutes because the problems his pathetic offense causes are too great to overcome when they play teams like the Spurs, Warriors and Rockets.

Berry Tramel replied:
Please do yourself a favor and continue to use initials, so that people can't identify the literal weakest basketball mind in the five-country region. Here is what you're saying.
1. Basketball games are won by the numbers on the backs of bubble gum cards.
2. Arguments are won by promoting the stuff that doesn't matter and ignoring the stuff that does.
3. Defense has no effect on winning.
Roberson was a good and effective offensive player in the Thunder's last two playoff series. Roberson is one of the best wing defenders in the NBA. Teams that can't guard on the perimeter against Golden State have no chance.

You can tell those reporters are finding it hard to stay professional when answering his questions.
He's consistent I will give him that!

[ThunderBolt]

Hahahaha. I wonder if sleek punched his iPad when he read this.

JCD said:
In your last chat you said that Roberson gives the Thunder the best chance to compete with the Warriors. Here are his numbers from the 4 games OKC played them last year: 132 minutes played he had only 13 points, 0-10 on 3 pointers (I'm not joking), 1-4 on 3 pointers, KD averaged 37 pts. per game against him and in the last game Thompson had 34. I'm not understanding how anybody could have watched those 4 games and make the claim that Roberson is some sort of a positive going forward. That doesn't even mention how much he costs the team since his man literally doesn't even have to guard him which mucks up the offense for everybody else. The closest game against the Warriors last year was 16 points. I will argue exactly the opposite of your claim and say that the only way OKC has any chance to compete with the Warriors is if Roberson never steps on the court and frankly if the Thunder is going to make any kind of a championship run he must come off the bench and play limited minutes because the problems his pathetic offense causes are too great to overcome when they play teams like the Spurs, Warriors and Rockets.

Berry Tramel replied:
Please do yourself a favor and continue to use initials, so that people can't identify the literal weakest basketball mind in the five-country region. Here is what you're saying.
1. Basketball games are won by the numbers on the backs of bubble gum cards.
2. Arguments are won by promoting the stuff that doesn't matter and ignoring the stuff that does.
3. Defense has no effect on winning.
Roberson was a good and effective offensive player in the Thunder's last two playoff series. Roberson is one of the best wing defenders in the NBA. Teams that can't guard on the perimeter against Golden State have no chance.

You can tell those reporters are finding it hard to stay professional when answering his questions.
He's consistent I will give him that!

Yep. Uses the same two stats and hates paragraphs.

[ThunderBolt]

I'm starting to get worried for Andre Roberson's personal safety given JCD's unhealthy obsession with him. Should Roberson get a Restraining Order? Maybe Sam should too, since he greatly values Roberson's basketball abilities and has not traded him.

Berry Tramel replied:
I actually believe that to harm Roberson, you would have to emerge from your mother's basement. Not going to happen.

[bondom34]

Today I learned a new term.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

[sleestak33]

I still would much rather have kept Perry Jones or Jeremy Lamb because obviously between these 3 players either one of them had a MUCH higher upside and if Presti would have kept one of them and put them in the role Roberson has had for the last 4 years as a starter and worked with developing them defensively we obviously would have a MUCH better overall player but now we're stuck with a completely one dimensional defensive role player who will never be anything offensively so they need to put him into a rotational role as a backup where he can be the most effective.

me reading someone saying that Perry Jones the Freaking Third should have been kept over Andre Roberson in the Year of Our Lord 2017



EDIT: I got on Ralph for contentless posts earlier, so we should note: Perry Jones got traded for a top-55 protected second-round pick, then got cut from training camp with the Celtics (they kept Jordan Mickey and Gerald Green over him), then went to the D-League, then washed out of the D-League, then went overseas to freaking Russia, then came back to the states and is now trying to prove himself on a training camp deal with the Pelicans, who have a hole at small forward you could drive an aircraft carrier through and STILL will not give him guaranteed money.

Jeremy Lamb's per 36 minutes averages are 19 points and 8 rebounds...Roberson's are 8 and 6. Not only is he a significantly better offensive player in every regard (handling the ball, passing, shooting, creating his own offense, etc.) he's actually a better rebounder. Perry Jones scored 32 points against the Clippers and 20 in another game. Roberson career high in 4 years is only 17 points. I'm not here to sing the praises of Jones by any means (Lamb would have been the best choice to keep) but his ceiling obviously was ridiculously higher than Roberson and there just aren't many players that come through the NBA that have the capability of scoring 32 points in a game. If you have to choose between several players for a long term potential you ALWAYS take the player with the highest offensive ceiling because you can teach somebody defense over time but you're never going to take somebody with faulty shooting form and a low offensive basketball IQ like Roberson to get better. Lamb or Jones would have been a much better choice and now after 4 years of trying to develop Roberson's offensive abilities he's actually worse than he ever has been and hasn't improved whatsoever.

[sleestak33]

Hahahaha. I wonder if sleek punched his iPad when he read this.

JCD said:
In your last chat you said that Roberson gives the Thunder the best chance to compete with the Warriors. Here are his numbers from the 4 games OKC played them last year: 132 minutes played he had only 13 points, 0-10 on 3 pointers (I'm not joking), 1-4 on 3 pointers, KD averaged 37 pts. per game against him and in the last game Thompson had 34. I'm not understanding how anybody could have watched those 4 games and make the claim that Roberson is some sort of a positive going forward. That doesn't even mention how much he costs the team since his man literally doesn't even have to guard him which mucks up the offense for everybody else. The closest game against the Warriors last year was 16 points. I will argue exactly the opposite of your claim and say that the only way OKC has any chance to compete with the Warriors is if Roberson never steps on the court and frankly if the Thunder is going to make any kind of a championship run he must come off the bench and play limited minutes because the problems his pathetic offense causes are too great to overcome when they play teams like the Spurs, Warriors and Rockets.

Berry Tramel replied:
Please do yourself a favor and continue to use initials, so that people can't identify the literal weakest basketball mind in the five-country region. Here is what you're saying.
1. Basketball games are won by the numbers on the backs of bubble gum cards.
2. Arguments are won by promoting the stuff that doesn't matter and ignoring the stuff that does.
3. Defense has no effect on winning.
Roberson was a good and effective offensive player in the Thunder's last two playoff series. Roberson is one of the best wing defenders in the NBA. Teams that can't guard on the perimeter against Golden State have no chance.

Notice how Tramel doesn't directly deal with the stats I posted because they completely dismantle his stance about Roberson. When you have somebody backed into a corner with facts then they have to resort to name calling and insults because they know they can't win. To try to say that a player who was a complete disaster in the 4 games against the Warriors last year is somehow the main reason that OKC will have a chance against them now is just beyond laughable. Roberson defended the Warriors so well last year that KD averaged 37 points per game and Thompson had 34 in the last game. Roberson was "an effective offensive player in the Thunder's last two playoff series" BECAUSE THE WARRIORS AND ROCKETS LITERALLY DID NOT GUARD HIM! Makes me wonder if Tramel even watched the games. In over 4 decades of watching NBA playoff basketball I have never seen a player that the other team LITERALLY didn't guard and now I've seen it twice with Roberson. Obviously he scored some points since nobody was ever near him but it caused a multitude of problems since his defender either stood in the lane clogging it up or double teamed whenever possible mucking up the offense. I'll just keep going at Tramel now that I know he's beat.

[ThunderBolt]

Notice how Tramel doesn't directly deal with the stats I posted

#irony

[Bergmaniac]

I thought sleestak33 would have become a Knicks fan by now, what with him being Kanter's biggest fan in the universe and all...

[hardenASG13]

Finally got a chance to watch that first preseason game......he still can't dribble, and the hitch in his shot appeared worse. Didn't collapse the D once, or keep cp3 in front of him at all. Late on numerous closeouts as well. Seen so many games like that. When he was open and actaully cut he couldnt catch the ball, made nothing happen in that regard. Grant looked to be the better overall player. Hope it's better tonight, waiting to see his impact

[bondom34]

Grant. I can't.

[spearsy23]

He should definitely fire his agent.

[Osirus89]

Grant. I can't.

This needs to be a theme this season.

If Jerami makes a boneheaded play or is bricking all this shots.

Grant.... I just can't