Preseason Game #1 : Phoenix Suns @ Portland Trail Blazers

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

It would be typical Suns luck if Chriss and Bender play awful, yet Len becomes our starting center putting up 15/12/3/3 playing solid defense, defending the rim, and cleaning up on the offensive glass...only to leave us at the end of the year (for the Spurs or Lakers) because we lost his bird rights.

Of course, Len's play would also be just good enough to win us a few meaningless games down the stretch so we lose out on a top 5 pick in the 2018 draft.

And it would be typical Suns fans to say Chriss and Bender are busts while simultaneously wishing they could go back in time to sign Len to a reasonable deal.

[sunwillrise0304]

It would be typical Suns luck if Chriss and Bender play awful, yet Len becomes our starting center putting up 15/12/3/3 playing solid defense, defending the rim, and cleaning up on the offensive glass...only to leave us at the end of the year (for the Spurs or Lakers) because we lost his bird rights.

Of course, Len's play would also be just good enough to win us a few meaningless games down the stretch so we lose out on a top 5 pick in the 2018 draft.

actually, i see it in an opposite way

1. We still have len bird rights. Considering not much teams will have cap space next summer, we will likely retain len if he had consistent performance.

2. if len play good, we will have more time for chriss and bender in pf position but not center. This sure build up their confidence and have a clear role for both of them in the future.(at least they can avoid foul trouble by not playing out of position)

3. do we really need another top 5 pick to be succeeded? And at the very beginning of the season, i dont like the tank assumption

[nashrambler13]

Sorry, but there are so many things I disagree with in this post, I'm not sure where to start, but I guess I'll start with the obvious.

Why, exactly, is Warren on the Bench? Our likely 2nd best all-around player, and he gets relegated to the bench because JJ is 'supposed' to have better defense? You do realize that the coach doesn't sub out 5 starters for 5 subs, right?

Think of it this way; you are Warren. Your career TS% is .544, eFG% of .522, and PER 15.4...your VORP last year was .9, you slashed 14.4/5.1...all numbers better than the guy who was just offered a Max extension, and you are being relegated to the Bench in favor of a Rookie, after having to sit behind PJ Tucker the first almost 3 years? You finally get your shot, just to lose it to a rookie because he was drafted 4th? I'd be livid.

Then, Len has already proven to be woeful as a backup; he needs to start...and no, it has nothing to do with last night. I've been on this bandwagon for years. He's been developed horribly. Let him start. 4 of 5 games he'll manage to stay out of foul trouble long enough to get 28-30 minutes, 15 pts, 12 TRBs, and 2 BLKs a night. Yeah, the other 20% of the games he'll 'goon-up', but it's so much worth it over 'yester-year-Tyson'.

And lastly, kind of back to Warren, but if you are so quick to sit Warren due to his defense for a lesser-offensively gifted talent in JJ (2 x 3-pointers in the 1st preseason game doesn't make him better) then we should sit Booker for Daniels. I mean, Daniels shoots 3s better than Booker, and plays better D. And you are right, it isn't the same thing; but sitting Warren in favor of JJ is not the right or fair answer.

I know, many here think I am anti-JJ, but I'm not. I'm just not in favor of sitting Warren, someone who has finally earned his starting slot, in favor of our new shiny toy, because Warren isn't as 'shiny' anymore. If we are hell-bent on starting JJ, then start Bledsoe-Booker-JJ-Warren-Len. We should be putting our best 5 on the floor in this new 'position-less' NBA, then we can bring in Chriss, Bender, Ulis, DJJ, Daniels, etc.

Because if we don't have TJ in our second unit, our second unit is not going to score. People think too highly of starting. It's not about when you get on the floor, it's about being most effective while on the floor. If these guys want to start winning, I think the best way for that to happen is for TJ to come off the bench.

Also, think of how much better Josh Jackson is going to be if he's not wildly driving into the paint trying to be a #1 option for the second unit? I loved what I saw from him tonight, but he needs to slow it down a little. Having Booker and Bledsoe on the floor should allow him to do just that.

I mean, unless you want to tank this season, having an ineffective second unit is going to hold you back. I believe that Ulis and Warren orchestrating the bench while Bledsoe and Booker orchestrate the starters is our smartest line-up moving forward.

Well my guy Mr. Miyagi already made almost all of my points (and far more succinctly than I likely would have), but I will add a couple of points:

1) I don't think Warren is our second best player, I think Bledsoe and Booker are pretty clearly better.
2) Almost all successful teams don't start their best 5--they space out their players so that every part of the rotation can hold its own. IMO, that becomes WAY easier and more sustainable if TJ becomes the absolute go-to player in the second unit. Also, even if he IS our third best player (not much of a race right now), that doesn't negate the fact that the fit could be better with him on the bench.
3) Warren just got his extension even after we drafted someone at his position at slot 4. He has to realize this is, at the very least, an eventual possibility. He also is totally financially secure-- that was one of the reasons I was so happy about the extension; it allows us to start JJ sooner.
4) You literally used one of the arguments I used for Jackson (he will be better utilized/developed by starting him) for Len. Personally though, I think it is not as relevant in this case. Len is asked to do exactly the same thing as a starter and on the bench; there is no real explanation for his sub-par play thus far in his career. I like Len and I want him to be a useful player for us and I am not wholly against starting him over Tyson. I do think his ultimate destiny, though, is our back-up center (if he stays with the team. It is telling that there was LITERALLY no interest reported from ANY team this offseason, especially since we made no claims about "matching any offer" that usually deters pursuits in RFA).
5) I'm not totally against the idea of starting both, but it still leaves our bench an absolute dumpster fire. I think our starting lineup will undoubtedly be worse than most teams this year no matter how you shuffle it. Our best hope to stay competitive (both now and in the future) is to balance our lineups well.

[LukasBMW]

It would be typical Suns luck if Chriss and Bender play awful, yet Len becomes our starting center putting up 15/12/3/3 playing solid defense, defending the rim, and cleaning up on the offensive glass...only to leave us at the end of the year (for the Spurs or Lakers) because we lost his bird rights.

Of course, Len's play would also be just good enough to win us a few meaningless games down the stretch so we lose out on a top 5 pick in the 2018 draft.

actually, i see it in an opposite way

1. We still have len bird rights. Considering not much teams will have cap space next summer, we will likely retain len if he had consistent performance.

2. if len play good, we will have more time for chriss and bender in pf position but not center. This sure build up their confidence and have a clear role for both of them in the future.(at least they can avoid foul trouble by not playing out of position)

3. do we really need another top 5 pick to be succeeded? And at the very beginning of the season, i dont like the tank assumption

Didn't we lose his bird rights when he took the QO?

[Villalobos]

It would be typical Suns luck if Chriss and Bender play awful, yet Len becomes our starting center putting up 15/12/3/3 playing solid defense, defending the rim, and cleaning up on the offensive glass...only to leave us at the end of the year (for the Spurs or Lakers) because we lost his bird rights.

Of course, Len's play would also be just good enough to win us a few meaningless games down the stretch so we lose out on a top 5 pick in the 2018 draft.

actually, i see it in an opposite way

1. We still have len bird rights. Considering not much teams will have cap space next summer, we will likely retain len if he had consistent performance.

2. if len play good, we will have more time for chriss and bender in pf position but not center. This sure build up their confidence and have a clear role for both of them in the future.(at least they can avoid foul trouble by not playing out of position)

3. do we really need another top 5 pick to be succeeded? And at the very beginning of the season, i dont like the tank assumption

Didn't we lose his bird rights when he took the QO?

Suns keep his bird rights unless he's traded. And Len has to approve that trade too.

[lilfishi22]

Watch on YouTube

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I'm not sold on our bigs moving forward at all. Chriss and bender need to improve a great deal if we ever want to compete. Or we need to pray we strike gold next summer, but it's a bit early for that.

I agree. I'm not sold either. Both guys are still very young so they can still get better but they do need to get a whole lot better if they are to be our bigs of the future. Right now, I see talent but I'm not sure they put it together. If I had to put money somewhere, it would be on a big in next year's draft.

[bigfoot]

I think saying TJ is our third best player and should come off the bench is wrong. TJ needs to start. Clearly the Warriors would not put any of Durant, Curry, Green, or Thompson on the bench. You put your best players on the floor. Some people want TJ on the bench because they want to see Jackson start. That is the only reason that makes any sense. If Jackson is better than both Chriss and Bender then

Bledsoe / Booker / Jackson / Warren / Chandler

should be our starting lineup.

[sunwillrise0304]

I think saying TJ is our third best player and should come off the bench is wrong. TJ needs to start. Clearly the Warriors would not put any of Durant, Curry, Green, or Thompson on the bench. You put your best players on the floor. Some people want TJ on the bench because they want to see Jackson start. That is the only reason that makes any sense. If Jackson is better than both Chriss and Bender then

Bledsoe / Booker / Jackson / Warren / Chandler

should be our starting lineup.

if len keep the performance shown at preseason opener, len should start

[MrMiyagi]

I think saying TJ is our third best player and should come off the bench is wrong. TJ needs to start. Clearly the Warriors would not put any of Durant, Curry, Green, or Thompson on the bench. You put your best players on the floor. Some people want TJ on the bench because they want to see Jackson start. That is the only reason that makes any sense. If Jackson is better than both Chriss and Bender then

Bledsoe / Booker / Jackson / Warren / Chandler

should be our starting lineup.

But they don't start their Death Lineup with Iggy. Iggy comes off the bench. I mean, unless you want to tell Steve Kerr he's making a mistake with his rotations and should be starting his best lineup.

[Kerrsed]

I think saying TJ is our third best player and should come off the bench is wrong. TJ needs to start. Clearly the Warriors would not put any of Durant, Curry, Green, or Thompson on the bench. You put your best players on the floor. Some people want TJ on the bench because they want to see Jackson start. That is the only reason that makes any sense. If Jackson is better than both Chriss and Bender then

Bledsoe / Booker / Jackson / Warren / Chandler

should be our starting lineup.

if len keep the performance shown at preseason opener, len should start

I hate to say it, but i agree with you.

[Mr Puddles]

actually, i see it in an opposite way

1. We still have len bird rights. Considering not much teams will have cap space next summer, we will likely retain len if he had consistent performance.

2. if len play good, we will have more time for chriss and bender in pf position but not center. This sure build up their confidence and have a clear role for both of them in the future.(at least they can avoid foul trouble by not playing out of position)

3. do we really need another top 5 pick to be succeeded? And at the very beginning of the season, i dont like the tank assumption

Didn't we lose his bird rights when he took the QO?

Suns keep his bird rights unless he's traded. And Len has to approve that trade too.

Even if Len has a breakout season, he's going to be competing in a stacked 2018 free agent class, center-wise:

DeMarcus Cousins
Joel Embiid (R)
Jusuf Nurkic
Brook Lopez
Nerlens Noel
Greg Monroe
Clint Capela (R)

...to name the top ones. At best, Len could become the third most desirable free agent center in that group and that's a BIG (huge) if.

Additionally, the draft is projected to be C heavy this year. I can't really think of any team that will be looking to break the bank to sign Alex Len - even if he ends up a really good season.

If we want to keep Len in a Suns jersey beyond next season, I'm pretty sure our front office will be able to make it happen.

[Damkac]

I think saying TJ is our third best player and should come off the bench is wrong. TJ needs to start. Clearly the Warriors would not put any of Durant, Curry, Green, or Thompson on the bench. You put your best players on the floor. Some people want TJ on the bench because they want to see Jackson start. That is the only reason that makes any sense. If Jackson is better than both Chriss and Bender then

Bledsoe / Booker / Jackson / Warren / Chandler

should be our starting lineup.

But they don't start their Death Lineup with Iggy. Iggy comes off the bench. I mean, unless you want to tell Steve Kerr he's making a mistake with his rotations and should be starting his best lineup.

Jackson is our Iggy. That confirms he should come off the bench

[bigfoot]

I think saying TJ is our third best player and should come off the bench is wrong. TJ needs to start. Clearly the Warriors would not put any of Durant, Curry, Green, or Thompson on the bench. You put your best players on the floor. Some people want TJ on the bench because they want to see Jackson start. That is the only reason that makes any sense. If Jackson is better than both Chriss and Bender then

Bledsoe / Booker / Jackson / Warren / Chandler

should be our starting lineup.

But they don't start their Death Lineup with Iggy. Iggy comes off the bench. I mean, unless you want to tell Steve Kerr he's making a mistake with his rotations and should be starting his best lineup.

Not even an equal comparison. Iggy is the 5th best player on the team. That versus Warren who is certainly the third best player and arguably the better than Booker in terms of a well-rounded player. Again it would be like saying we should start Nash and Amare and put Marion on the bench to lead the second unit. That just sounds wrong because it is wrong. Bledsoe, Booker, and Warren are clearly the best players on the team and should be starting. Crazy to state otherwise.

[bigfoot]

During Thursday’s media availability, again which only lasts a portion of practice, Watson showcased a new variation. The starters, wearing black jerseys, featured a 6-man rotation of Bledsoe, Booker, Jackson, Warren, with Chriss and Len alternating reps at the five spot. At points, Chriss would slide to the four for more rim protection and Jackson would leave the floor.

https://tinyurl.com/y8u3rxoj

Chandler heading to the bench? Len making the case for starting?

[MrMiyagi]

I think saying TJ is our third best player and should come off the bench is wrong. TJ needs to start. Clearly the Warriors would not put any of Durant, Curry, Green, or Thompson on the bench. You put your best players on the floor. Some people want TJ on the bench because they want to see Jackson start. That is the only reason that makes any sense. If Jackson is better than both Chriss and Bender then

Bledsoe / Booker / Jackson / Warren / Chandler

should be our starting lineup.

But they don't start their Death Lineup with Iggy. Iggy comes off the bench. I mean, unless you want to tell Steve Kerr he's making a mistake with his rotations and should be starting his best lineup.

Not even an equal comparison. Iggy is the 5th best player on the team. That versus Warren who is certainly the third best player and arguably the better than Booker in terms of a well-rounded player. Again it would be like saying we should start Nash and Amare and put Marion on the bench to lead the second unit. That just sounds wrong because it is wrong. Bledsoe, Booker, and Warren are clearly the best players on the team and should be starting. Crazy to state otherwise.

It's funny you should mention Marion, because Josh Jackson fits the Marion bill much better than TJ. Marion was vital for the SSOL Suns because he was a defensive beast, guarding just about every position. He fit the dynamic of the squad incredibly well.

Using those same SSOL Suns squads as another example, were you upset Barbosa didn't start at shooting guard over Raja Bell? Barbosa was better pretty much across the box score, most of the advanced stats, and our 3rd leading scorer (2nd per 36 behind Amare) in 06-07. Should LB have been starting over Bell? Or did it make more sense to start a more defensive player and bring a scoring punch off the bench?

[bigfoot]

But they don't start their Death Lineup with Iggy. Iggy comes off the bench. I mean, unless you want to tell Steve Kerr he's making a mistake with his rotations and should be starting his best lineup.

Not even an equal comparison. Iggy is the 5th best player on the team. That versus Warren who is certainly the third best player and arguably the better than Booker in terms of a well-rounded player. Again it would be like saying we should start Nash and Amare and put Marion on the bench to lead the second unit. That just sounds wrong because it is wrong. Bledsoe, Booker, and Warren are clearly the best players on the team and should be starting. Crazy to state otherwise.

It's funny you should mention Marion, because Josh Jackson fits the Marion bill much better than TJ. Marion was vital for the SSOL Suns because he was a defensive beast, guarding just about every position. He fit the dynamic of the squad incredibly well.

Using those same SSOL Suns squads as another example, were you upset Barbosa didn't start at shooting guard over Raja Bell? Barbosa was better pretty much across the box score, most of the advanced stats, and our 3rd leading scorer (2nd per 36 behind Amare) in 06-07. Should LB have been starting over Bell? Or did it make more sense to start a more defensive player and bring a scoring punch off the bench?

No LB shouldn't start over Bell because Bell was a better player. Their boxscore stats were not that far apart and Bell was a much, much better defender. Bell was on the all-league defensive team twice. Bell was clearly a better all-around player than Leandro.

That is the same thing with TJ. He is a better all around player than almost everyone else on the team. Bledsoe is definitely better but it is a toss up right now who is better Booker or Warren. Bookers offensive efficiency is not very good and his defense is questionable. Warren is definitely a very efficient scorer and plays decent defense. So would you be okay with Booker coming off the bench? Probably not. Neither would I. Jackson is not better than Warren right now. It's pretty obvious Bledsoe, Booker, Warren, and Jackson are the best players on the team. They should be the starters. The last spot is obviously for a big man to take ... the best of Chandler, Chriss, Bender, or Len. Right now it looks to be a battle between Len and Chriss. That's the argument you should be making ... not Jackson vs Warren.

[NavLDO]

Sorry, but there are so many things I disagree with in this post, I'm not sure where to start, but I guess I'll start with the obvious.

Why, exactly, is Warren on the Bench? Our likely 2nd best all-around player, and he gets relegated to the bench because JJ is 'supposed' to have better defense? You do realize that the coach doesn't sub out 5 starters for 5 subs, right?

Think of it this way; you are Warren. Your career TS% is .544, eFG% of .522, and PER 15.4...your VORP last year was .9, you slashed 14.4/5.1...all numbers better than the guy who was just offered a Max extension, and you are being relegated to the Bench in favor of a Rookie, after having to sit behind PJ Tucker the first almost 3 years? You finally get your shot, just to lose it to a rookie because he was drafted 4th? I'd be livid.

Then, Len has already proven to be woeful as a backup; he needs to start...and no, it has nothing to do with last night. I've been on this bandwagon for years. He's been developed horribly. Let him start. 4 of 5 games he'll manage to stay out of foul trouble long enough to get 28-30 minutes, 15 pts, 12 TRBs, and 2 BLKs a night. Yeah, the other 20% of the games he'll 'goon-up', but it's so much worth it over 'yester-year-Tyson'.

And lastly, kind of back to Warren, but if you are so quick to sit Warren due to his defense for a lesser-offensively gifted talent in JJ (2 x 3-pointers in the 1st preseason game doesn't make him better) then we should sit Booker for Daniels. I mean, Daniels shoots 3s better than Booker, and plays better D. And you are right, it isn't the same thing; but sitting Warren in favor of JJ is not the right or fair answer.

I know, many here think I am anti-JJ, but I'm not. I'm just not in favor of sitting Warren, someone who has finally earned his starting slot, in favor of our new shiny toy, because Warren isn't as 'shiny' anymore. If we are hell-bent on starting JJ, then start Bledsoe-Booker-JJ-Warren-Len. We should be putting our best 5 on the floor in this new 'position-less' NBA, then we can bring in Chriss, Bender, Ulis, DJJ, Daniels, etc.

Because if we don't have TJ in our second unit, our second unit is not going to score. People think too highly of starting. It's not about when you get on the floor, it's about being most effective while on the floor. If these guys want to start winning, I think the best way for that to happen is for TJ to come off the bench.

Also, think of how much better Josh Jackson is going to be if he's not wildly driving into the paint trying to be a #1 option for the second unit? I loved what I saw from him tonight, but he needs to slow it down a little. Having Booker and Bledsoe on the floor should allow him to do just that.

I mean, unless you want to tank this season, having an ineffective second unit is going to hold you back. I believe that Ulis and Warren orchestrating the bench while Bledsoe and Booker orchestrate the starters is our smartest line-up moving forward.

Well my guy Mr. Miyagi already made almost all of my points (and far more succinctly than I likely would have), but I will add a couple of points:

1) I don't think Warren is our second best player, I think Bledsoe and Booker are pretty clearly better.
2) Almost all successful teams don't start their best 5--they space out their players so that every part of the rotation can hold its own. IMO, that becomes WAY easier and more sustainable if TJ becomes the absolute go-to player in the second unit. Also, even if he IS our third best player (not much of a race right now), that doesn't negate the fact that the fit could be better with him on the bench.
3) Warren just got his extension even after we drafted someone at his position at slot 4. He has to realize this is, at the very least, an eventual possibility. He also is totally financially secure-- that was one of the reasons I was so happy about the extension; it allows us to start JJ sooner.
4) You literally used one of the arguments I used for Jackson (he will be better utilized/developed by starting him) for Len. Personally though, I think it is not as relevant in this case. Len is asked to do exactly the same thing as a starter and on the bench; there is no real explanation for his sub-par play thus far in his career. I like Len and I want him to be a useful player for us and I am not wholly against starting him over Tyson. I do think his ultimate destiny, though, is our back-up center (if he stays with the team. It is telling that there was LITERALLY no interest reported from ANY team this offseason, especially since we made no claims about "matching any offer" that usually deters pursuits in RFA).
5) I'm not totally against the idea of starting both, but it still leaves our bench an absolute dumpster fire. I think our starting lineup will undoubtedly be worse than most teams this year no matter how you shuffle it. Our best hope to stay competitive (both now and in the future) is to balance our lineups well.

1) OK, first off, starting does matter to players. Maybe to 'us' fans, WE don;t care who starts, but I GUARANTEE you it matters to Warren. Like I said, he's worked his tail off to be our 2nd best ALL-AROUND player, and we are telling him "Sorry, TJ, we need you to come in with the 2nd unit because your good and we need offense in the 2nd unit." That's BS.

2) As far as who is better, Booker or TJ, don't let 'who is more electric' fool you into who is better. Almost EVERY advanced/statistic shows it FG%, eFG%, TS%, ORtg, DRtg, WS, WS/48, PER, TRB%, VORP, BLK%, STL%, TOV%...all in favor of Warren. Only Asst%, FT%, and 3PT% favors Booker. Why not put Booker in with the 2nd Unit?

3) As far as what I said about Len, there is a HUGE difference between a player in his 5th season, and one in is 1st...c'mon, if you can't see that....

4) And as far as our Bench being a "Dumpster fire", are you saying that JJ is "Dumpster Fire" material? He's good enough to start, but not good enough to be 2nd Unit worthy? Or were you talking only if we started both? Still, as I said, Watson doesn't say "Ok, Bled, Book, JJ, Warren, Len--Out...Ulis, Daniels, Dudley, Chriss, Bender/Chandler--In."

5) Even if Watson did sub-out 5 for 5 (which almost NEVER happens), I don't exactly view view Dudley, Chriss, or Daniels as 'Dumpster Fire' material. And one bad game by Ulis doesn't mean he'll be terrible...

5)...which brings us to even MORE reason to but Booker with Ulis. Ulis shines when with Booker. You want to get the best out of Ulis? Put him with Booker.


But overall, I see NO reason to start JJ over Warren. JJ is a rookie, and would hit a rookie wall anyway 3/4 the way through the season. Let him 'earn' his place, just like Warren had to. If everyone is in favor of us 'winning' as much as possible, then we should start:

Bledsoe, Booker, Warren, Chriss, Len

Then sub in JJ for Warren, giving Warren about 32 minutes, JJ 20 minutes, with 4 of Warren's minutes with JJ on the floor in a 2-SF lineup. Make sure when Bledsoe is spelled, that Booker is there for Ulis. Troy Daniels may be a nice surprise, and can spell Booker with Bledsoe on the floor. Work in Bender when favorable, with Chandler, since Bender can provide the D that Chandler no longer does. And we can't forget about Dudley. He still shot a respectable 38% from 3.

And you never know...maybe the Suns is the team that Bennett breaks out with...ok, I went too far...

Bottom line to all this? Warren has earned the right to start. Even with all his troubles last year, he finished 13th in the league of SFs in VA:

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sf/sort/VORP/year/2017

Pretty much neck and neck with Booker...he added 5.2 wins, Booker added 5.6. If you consider all the other advanced stats, if Booker has earned a starting spot, Warren sure as heck has.

[Saberestar]

Bledsoe, Booker, Warren and Jackson are gonna play more than 30 mpg. Probably even more than 32 mpg.

We need them on the court to be competitive.

[NavLDO]

It would be typical Suns luck if Chriss and Bender play awful, yet Len becomes our starting center putting up 15/12/3/3 playing solid defense, defending the rim, and cleaning up on the offensive glass...only to leave us at the end of the year (for the Spurs or Lakers) because we lost his bird rights.

Of course, Len's play would also be just good enough to win us a few meaningless games down the stretch so we lose out on a top 5 pick in the 2018 draft.

And it would be typical Suns fans to say Chriss and Bender are busts while simultaneously wishing they could go back in time to sign Len to a reasonable deal.

Well, that statement in and of itself is very telling, don't you think? But first off, Len will not put up those numbers for a couple of reasons, the 1st of which is he will not be able to sustain those numbers every game, which leads to the 2nd, as usual, he won't be given the leeway once he has a poor game, to rebound back and prove himself worthy. He'll have a few good games, then have a bad one...maybe two...then he'll be yanked, lose his confidence, and take him another several games to get back into a rhythm, then the cycle starts all over. Face it, we aren't 'winning' this season anyway, as far anyone is concerned, and Tyson isn't making the difference for us, so just keep him in, and let him play a season as a starter. IF they do that, then we MIGHT see something to the effect of 13/11/2, which to me, would be fantastic.

But, back on point, if you are intimating what I think you are, I agree...

...since Bender and Chriss have played a WHOLE season, they should be experts by now, and tearing it up, right? We can't give them 2-3 seasons to figure it out...say...when they are 21-22YO? Every pick has to be an overnight success like Booker?

[NavLDO]

Not even an equal comparison. Iggy is the 5th best player on the team. That versus Warren who is certainly the third best player and arguably the better than Booker in terms of a well-rounded player. Again it would be like saying we should start Nash and Amare and put Marion on the bench to lead the second unit. That just sounds wrong because it is wrong. Bledsoe, Booker, and Warren are clearly the best players on the team and should be starting. Crazy to state otherwise.

It's funny you should mention Marion, because Josh Jackson fits the Marion bill much better than TJ. Marion was vital for the SSOL Suns because he was a defensive beast, guarding just about every position. He fit the dynamic of the squad incredibly well.

Using those same SSOL Suns squads as another example, were you upset Barbosa didn't start at shooting guard over Raja Bell? Barbosa was better pretty much across the box score, most of the advanced stats, and our 3rd leading scorer (2nd per 36 behind Amare) in 06-07. Should LB have been starting over Bell? Or did it make more sense to start a more defensive player and bring a scoring punch off the bench?

No LB shouldn't start over Bell because Bell was a better player. Their boxscore stats were not that far apart and Bell was a much, much better defender. Bell was on the all-league defensive team twice. Bell was clearly a better all-around player than Leandro.

That is the same thing with TJ. He is a better all around player than almost everyone else on the team. Bledsoe is definitely better but it is a toss up right now who is better Booker or Warren. Bookers offensive efficiency is not very good and his defense is questionable. Warren is definitely a very efficient scorer and plays decent defense. So would you be okay with Booker coming off the bench? Probably not. Neither would I. Jackson is not better than Warren right now. It's pretty obvious Bledsoe, Booker, Warren, and Jackson are the best players on the team. They should be the starters. The last spot is obviously for a big man to take ... the best of Chandler, Chriss, Bender, or Len. Right now it looks to be a battle between Len and Chriss. That's the argument you should be making ... not Jackson vs Warren.

Preach it, brother!

And if JJ is one of our top players, I still think we need to be careful with his minutes. Even though Chriss 'started', he only played just over 21MPG. I think that needs to be JJ's target as well. Just because Bender may not be 'fantastic', he is still pretty darn good defensively, when he puts in the effort. His issues are SOLELY offensive, so cover him up with offense:

Bledsoe-Booker-Warren-Bender-Len

Then have a 2nd unit, since it's not about 'starting' as everyone says, then they won't be upset with JJ not starting, right?

Ulis-Daniels-JJ-Chriss-Chandler

JJ does fairly well offensively, it seems. Chriss is fine offensively, as well, and JJ can hide some of Chriss' defensive woes. Chandler can cover Chriss' Rebounding woes, and Chriss and JJ can score well enough to assist Daniels in that department...and again, there is always Dudley.

The trick is, leaving the 'right' 5 on the floor...because as I mentioned in other posts, and as we all already know, they don't sub 5 for 5.

Ulis-Booker-JJ-Chriss-Len
Bledsoe-Daniels-Warren-Dudley-Chandler
Bledsoe-Booker-JJ-Warren-Chriss
Ulis-Booker-JJ-Bender-Len

...so-on an so-forth...or, we could go...

Bledsoe-Daniels-Booker-JJ-Warren (Small-Ball)
Ulis-Bledsoe-James-Daniels-Booker (REALLY Small-Ball ) I'm obviously, j/k with this...or ooh...we go with the all-hands team...
Daniels-JJ-Chriss-Chandler-Len!