The Jabari Discussion Thread - Back 2/2

[M-C-G]

Long term his ideal role is a 20ish mpg gunner. Simply this role and let him guard lesser bench players for the most part.

If that will be his role, maybe it would be better to have kept Beasley with 3m per year

If Beasley wasn't batsh*t crazy for sure. I will say, Beasley will be a better value at 3mil per than Jabari on his next contract without any hesitation.

Long term his ideal role is a 20ish mpg gunner. Simply this role and let him guard lesser bench players for the most part.

So James Johnson is his ideal role, huh?

Pretty much. He's not going to be such an elite scorer where you can justify him playing 32+mpg. His defense is that bad. Add in the strain heavy minutes you're putting on what's left of his knee and you're asking for trouble.

People need to quit with the dream that Jabari is going to be the savior we hoped when we drafted him #2. You're only going to be disappointed.

Thanks for looking out for my feelings. As for Jabari's defense being set in stone, its one of the fun things that gets talked about on these boards as facts. But he has about two seasons in the scheme, obviously separated by long breaks, and we have a team that can put someone vocal behind him and help make up for mistakes, then I think the issue isn't nearly as bad and as permanently debilitating as you make it sound.

Bottom line is no one knows what he is going to be, stop being a turd and pretending like you've come back from the future with the Grays 2000-2050 Sports Almanac

[jakecronus8]

If that will be his role, maybe it would be better to have kept Beasley with 3m per year

If Beasley wasn't batsh*t crazy for sure. I will say, Beasley will be a better value at 3mil per than Jabari on his next contract without any hesitation.

So James Johnson is his ideal role, huh?

Pretty much. He's not going to be such an elite scorer where you can justify him playing 32+mpg. His defense is that bad. Add in the strain heavy minutes you're putting on what's left of his knee and you're asking for trouble.

People need to quit with the dream that Jabari is going to be the savior we hoped when we drafted him #2. You're only going to be disappointed.

Thanks for looking out for my feelings. As for Jabari's defense being set in stone, its one of the fun things that gets talked about on these boards as facts. But he has about two seasons in the scheme, obviously separated by long breaks, and we have a team that can put someone vocal behind him and help make up for mistakes, then I think the issue isn't nearly as bad and as permanently debilitating as you make it sound.

Bottom line is no one knows what he is going to be, stop being a turd and pretending like you've come back from the future with the Grays 2000-2050 Sports Almanac

Laugh all you want, but one day I'll be in the penthouse of my casino in the middle of the ghetto with my fake breasted wife and her no good stepson. And Billy Zane will be there too.

All jokes aside, obviously no one knows the future. The most alarming thing with Jabari's defense is it's instinctual. The second the guy he's guarding doesn't have the ball it's like he no longer exists in Jabari's head.

[M-C-G]

All jokes aside, obviously no one knows the future. The most alarming thing with Jabari's defense is it's instinctual. The second the guy he's guarding doesn't have the ball it's like he no longer exists in Jabari's head.

This discussion has been had a million times, but he is clearly one of the many AAU guys that wasn't asked to understand any kind of team defensive concepts, at Duke they seemed to put him down low so he didn't really have to learn anything, then in the pros we put him into our ultra stupid scheme which all your typical non vets struggle to pick up, and we all almost universally agree the scheme is stupid and doesn't put people in a good position to succeed against any team with a coach with half a brain.

Add in he is playing with Moose or Henson down low, you aren't getting any vocal help, which he could obviously use and he isn't getting any rim protection for when he does mess up. And if you want to look at his line ups without Giannis, make sure you note how often he is saddled with guys like Telly or Beasley that we all know suck as well doubling down our defensive issues.

This whole lost cause narrative is what gets me, yet we haven't done anything to really try and help him in terms of adjusting scheme or pairing with a shot blocker (that isn't Henson's lazy ass). I think you put him with Thon and the "sheriff" keeps on him, I think we'll see a better overall performance, with not every lapse being a detrimental one.

Also, I don't think "instinctual" is the right word...because he has good instincts with the guy in front of him with the ball (not PnR) and he is pretty instinctual with playing passing lines and getting steals. He issue is much more fundamentals, he doesn't seem to understand them and he seems to lack focus, both curable enough ailments to reach average defender status given enough time, effort, coaching and patience.

[midranger]

He literally forgets to play defense when he's playing defense.

He's not six years old distracted by butterflies on the court. He's been playing basketball forever, under all kinds of coaches in all kinds of defensive systems. His dad was a professional basketball player for gods sake.

If he can't manage to focus enough to not forget to play defense at this point, it probably ain't happening.

Our defensive scheme sucks, but at this level you will need to be able to function within some team concept. Any action not happening 3 inches from his nose, makes him stand and watch the other team score. This doesn't mention the inexplicable angles he takes at times where he just runs himself completely out of the play.

[coolhandluke121]

He literally forgets to play defense when he's playing defense.

Exactly. Many fans and announcers can go to great lengths parsing offensive stats and distinguishing players whose overall impact on offense is basically the same, but then they only have like 5 or 6 tiers of defense and a wretched defender like Jabari gets lumped in with all kinds of bad defenders, running the gamut from -.5 drpm guys all the way to negative 3's or worse, and everything in between.

Gotta get cinematographer back in here as well but he had an overwhelming number of stats that showed nearly every other player on the team was worse on offense with Jabari in the game as well. Despite the false narrative that he's a go-to scorer, he often just capitalizes on easy offensive looks that were generated by a team effort (wide open jumpers and 3's, fast breaks, off-ball cuts), which basically just means he's a guy who redistributes the scoring on his own team as opposed to getting most of it at the expense of the opponents. It still always fell on Giannis or Khris to generate offense out of nothing when they played together because Jabari was often passive and helpless when they needed him to score. A couple good 3-and-d guys would allow you to be much better on defense while merely redistributing much of his scoring.

[Pachinko_]

He literally forgets to play defense when he's playing defense.

He's not six years old distracted by butterflies on the court. He's been playing basketball forever, under all kinds of coaches in all kinds of defensive systems. His dad was a professional basketball player for gods sake.

If he can't manage to focus enough to not forget to play defense at this point, it probably ain't happening.

Our defensive scheme sucks, but at this level you will need to be able to function within some team concept. Any action not happening 3 inches from his nose, makes him stand and watch the other team score. This doesn't mention the inexplicable angles he takes at times where he just runs himself completely out of the play.

Why can't KAT, Wiggins, Okafor etc play any defense? They're products of a system that asks them to score, then they spend a few months at college which isn't enough to begin with and they're only asked to score anyway, and then they're someone else's problem. These kind of players just don't learn defense because nobody really asks them to until it's too late. It is what it is. Maybe later if they get to a point where the system is about to spit them out they may or may not make an effort. Melo is about to make a defensive effort at 33 LOL.

It then becomes a question of whether you think such a player is useful for you or not. To me they can be useful but it depends on what kind of team you're building and what other pieces you have. Defense matters and if you start with minus one player someone else has to pick up the slack, which is doable but it means you're starting your roster with restrictions and requirements.

[Siefer]

As an aside, I really really hate the defense we run. I'm not saying Jabari isn't a terrible defender, but a bunch of decent to plus guys have looked bad in this scheme.

[bigkurty]

As an aside, I really really hate the defense we run. I'm not saying Jabari isn't a terrible defender, but a bunch of decent to plus guys have looked bad in this scheme.

The D is the single biggest reason why Kidd sucks. The league has changed a ton over recent years. Three pointers attempted per game is going up every year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html
A good coach would adjust over time. Ours tells everyone they need more energy and effort rather than fix the real problem.

[Ill-yasova]

Jabari's defense has been terrible so far, no excuse for that. That said, guys who put up 20 ppg without dominating the ball can also be really valuable too. I'd overpay on a two year contract because I'd rather roll the dice with somebody we already have than start over with nothing.

[Jez2983]

It's probably time we have a 'Our Defence Sucks' thread in here that we can just go and vent in all the time (including stats and pictures). It's possible then some of the Bucks minions will see it.

[trwi7]

He literally forgets to play defense when he's playing defense.

He's not six years old distracted by butterflies on the court. He's been playing basketball forever, under all kinds of coaches in all kinds of defensive systems. His dad was a professional basketball player for gods sake.

If he can't manage to focus enough to not forget to play defense at this point, it probably ain't happening.

Our defensive scheme sucks, but at this level you will need to be able to function within some team concept. Any action not happening 3 inches from his nose, makes him stand and watch the other team score. This doesn't mention the inexplicable angles he takes at times where he just runs himself completely out of the play.

I blame Kidd's scheme here.

Read on Twitter

[illusional]

Jabari without any injuries is not a max player.

What you mean is that you would not offer a healthy Jabari the max, right? Because healthy Jabari is definitely getting the max.

If we can find a trade partner, I would be up for moving on. Love him to death, but my heart can't handle watching every game in fear.

Bulls, Hornets, Kings, Nets, Hawks, Jazz are some teams that come to mind.

Let him play with his idol Derrick Rose.

Channing Frye & 2018 1st via Boston/Brooklyn.

Drafting either Bagley or Bamba.

I'd prefer Bagley.

But Bamba would do.

[Cooleyo47]

He literally forgets to play defense when he's playing defense.

He's not six years old distracted by butterflies on the court. He's been playing basketball forever, under all kinds of coaches in all kinds of defensive systems. His dad was a professional basketball player for gods sake.

If he can't manage to focus enough to not forget to play defense at this point, it probably ain't happening.

Our defensive scheme sucks, but at this level you will need to be able to function within some team concept. Any action not happening 3 inches from his nose, makes him stand and watch the other team score. This doesn't mention the inexplicable angles he takes at times where he just runs himself completely out of the play.

Well said... Couple that with the fact that we'll all be expecting his knee to explode again and it's a no-brainer that they should let someone else set the market for him if he isn't willing to take a hometown discount.

Considering his injury history, any agent advising against the security of a reasonable deal rather than potentially having to make a decision on playing on a qualifying offer doesn't have his best interests at heart.

[M-C-G]

He literally forgets to play defense when he's playing defense.

He's not six years old distracted by butterflies on the court. He's been playing basketball forever, under all kinds of coaches in all kinds of defensive systems. His dad was a professional basketball player for gods sake.

If he can't manage to focus enough to not forget to play defense at this point, it probably ain't happening.

Our defensive scheme sucks, but at this level you will need to be able to function within some team concept. Any action not happening 3 inches from his nose, makes him stand and watch the other team score. This doesn't mention the inexplicable angles he takes at times where he just runs himself completely out of the play.

I blame Kidd's scheme here.

Read on Twitter

Keep in mind, even the most loyal Jabarist are saying they think he can be an average defender in time. No one is denying that he has some of the most cringe worthy defensive moments.

[fansinceforever]

Playing next to what Khris, Giannis and what we all hope/need Thon to become should be able to effectively hide Jabari on defense. He can also improve in those areas.

Too early to write him off entirely when he already attains a skill (when healthy) that we need pretty badly.

[sidney lanier]

It then becomes a question of whether you think such a player is useful for you or not. To me they can be useful but it depends on what kind of team you're building and what other pieces you have. Defense matters and if you start with minus one player someone else has to pick up the slack, which is doable but it means you're starting your roster with restrictions and requirements.

Defense does matter, but the assumption that it is as important as offense in the NBA is a false equivalence some of our faux-analytical friends have propagated here to bad effect.

NBA basketball as it is now played sendeth the rain of three-pointers on the just and the unjust, on diligent defenders fulfilling the romantic notion of belly-up Hoosiers-movie-style stoutness as well as the yeah-whatever Melo types, in ways that differ only around the fringes of statistical significance and in numbers that persuade only the credulous.

In the many years since the hand-check went away in favor of can't-touch-this rules away from the basket, defense has continually diminished in importance. There are still schematic/funneling-type things a team can do, of course, but the notion that an individual defender of the quality of my namesake Sidney can make a difference equivalent to commensurate offensive skills is dated and mistaken.

[coolhandluke121]

It then becomes a question of whether you think such a player is useful for you or not. To me they can be useful but it depends on what kind of team you're building and what other pieces you have. Defense matters and if you start with minus one player someone else has to pick up the slack, which is doable but it means you're starting your roster with restrictions and requirements.

Defense does matter, but the assumption that it is as important as offense in the NBA is a false equivalence some of our faux-analytical friends have propagated here to bad effect.

NBA basketball as it is now played sendeth the rain of three-pointers on the just and the unjust, on diligent defenders fulfilling the

Right, because offense only matters when you're scoring. It doesn't matter when the other team is scoring on you.

[emunney]

He literally forgets to play defense when he's playing defense.

He's not six years old distracted by butterflies on the court. He's been playing basketball forever, under all kinds of coaches in all kinds of defensive systems. His dad was a professional basketball player for gods sake.

If he can't manage to focus enough to not forget to play defense at this point, it probably ain't happening.

Our defensive scheme sucks, but at this level you will need to be able to function within some team concept. Any action not happening 3 inches from his nose, makes him stand and watch the other team score. This doesn't mention the inexplicable angles he takes at times where he just runs himself completely out of the play.

I blame Kidd's scheme here.

Read on Twitter

Jabari made the wrong decision here but this is far from his biggest head scratcher. Hayward at least had to set a killer screen on this.

[Rainwater]

He literally forgets to play defense when he's playing defense.

He's not six years old distracted by butterflies on the court. He's been playing basketball forever, under all kinds of coaches in all kinds of defensive systems. His dad was a professional basketball player for gods sake.

If he can't manage to focus enough to not forget to play defense at this point, it probably ain't happening.

Our defensive scheme sucks, but at this level you will need to be able to function within some team concept. Any action not happening 3 inches from his nose, makes him stand and watch the other team score. This doesn't mention the inexplicable angles he takes at times where he just runs himself completely out of the play.

I blame Kidd's scheme here.

Read on Twitter

Yeah, that is not completely Jabari's fault. Either that is Kidd's scheme or miscommunication. Instead of completely switching, which would have been ideal given the outcome, both Jabari and Matthew were committed to staying on their man. When Jabari went to guard the roller, it was too late for Matthew to reach his man (the shooter). If Jabari had stayed with the shooter, the roller would be open, as Matthew was committed on fighting the screen to reach the shooter.

[HoopsMalone]

Honestly I can not believe the general consensus on Jabari. If I was a Bucks fan I would be incredibly pissed if Jabari got like 4/$80M. It's not like he's really a difficult player to replace, and Giannis has a 5 year window before he may leave for another franchise. I'm not taking my chances. No freaking way. You have a pretty good team around Giannis. You could attract a good free agent. I don't really consider it a long shot.

Jabari really isn't that good even if he stays healthy. And the odds of that aren't good. He's going to have a lot of swelling and various other problems in all likelihood.