Help understanding Jimmy Butler Trade: Non-simultaneous for both teams?

[Breeze_56]

I've been reading and re-reading Coons (specifically Q.84-87) about non-simultaneous trades and understanding how trades can be viewed differently from each side, and I've been trying to apply that to the Jimmy Butler trade. Please correct this interpretation:

"The Chicago Bulls have reportedly agreed to trade Jimmy Butler and the No. 16 pick (Justin Patton) in the NBA draft to the Timberwolves in exchange for Zach LaVine, Kris Dunn, and the No. 7 pick (Lauri Markkanen)."

First question: the trade happens June 22nd, meaning all figures used for salary matching purposes are the 2016, not 2017 salaries? In 2016 Butler is owed $17,552,209; Dunn, $3,872,520; LaVine, $2,240,880. Neither draft pick have signed so each is treated as $0 for matching purposes.

Chicago sees the trade as: As a simultaneous pick swap ($0 for $0); a non-simultaneous trade of Butler for LaVine with the resulting disparity (17,552,209-2,240,880) generating a $15,311,329 trade exception; trading Dunn for nothing, which I'm assuming completes a previous non-simultaneous trade?

This is my big question: if I'm correct that the Dunn trade completed a previous non-sim trade, what was the trade, how would I verify that, and what sources would I use in the future to verify these sorts of things? Any non-simultaneous trade trackers out there?

Minnesota sees the trade as: As a simultaneous pick swap ($0 for $0), and then what? Can't figure this part out

[Smitty731]

I've been reading and re-reading Coons (specifically Q.84-87) about non-simultaneous trades and understanding how trades can be viewed differently from each side, and I've been trying to apply that to the Jimmy Butler trade. Please correct this interpretation:

"The Chicago Bulls have reportedly agreed to trade Jimmy Butler and the No. 16 pick (Justin Patton) in the NBA draft to the Timberwolves in exchange for Zach LaVine, Kris Dunn, and the No. 7 pick (Lauri Markkanen)."

First question: the trade happens June 22nd, meaning all figures used for salary matching purposes are the 2016, not 2017 salaries? In 2016 Butler is owed $17,552,209; Dunn, $3,872,520; LaVine, $2,240,880. Neither draft pick have signed so each is treated as $0 for matching purposes.

Chicago sees the trade as: As a simultaneous pick swap ($0 for $0); a non-simultaneous trade of Butler for LaVine with the resulting disparity (17,552,209-2,240,880) generating a $15,311,329 trade exception; trading Dunn for nothing, which I'm assuming completes a previous non-simultaneous trade?

This is my big question: if I'm correct that the Dunn trade completed a previous non-sim trade, what was the trade, how would I verify that, and what sources would I use in the future to verify these sorts of things? Any non-simultaneous trade trackers out there?

Minnesota sees the trade as: As a simultaneous pick swap ($0 for $0), and then what? Can't figure this part out

You're like 90% of the way there, in that you've got the figures right The part I think you are missing is that both sides can structure the deal in the way that is most advantageous for them. Essentially, if you want to break it down into parts it was:

Butler for LaVine (as you stated), then Dunn and the pick for the pick from the Chicago side.

Minnesota simply structured it as listed (Butler and the pick for LaVine, Dunn and the pick), since they were under the cap at the time of the trade.

Does that help?

[Breeze_56]

Essentially, if you want to break it down into parts it was:

Butler for LaVine (as you stated), then Dunn and the pick for the pick from the Chicago side.

That's what I was trying to, break it down into the components. So, from CHI's POV, Dunn+pick for pick; this is a non-simultaneous trade as well? I'm guessing it's the completion of a previous NS trade, specifically the trade with OKC?
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/transactions/chicago-bulls/trade/

And from MIN's POV, they're under the cap the whole time so simultaneous/non-simultaneous is irrelevant?

[DBoys]

Just ignore the picks. You don't have to match up something-for-something in each segment of the trade. You only have to have the overall trade including something of value from each side. And the picks have no relevance in the trade-matching exercise because they have no trade-matching value.

All they really account for is how to LEGALLY add each incoming piece. You can use cap room, S TEs (generated by the outgoing salary in the trade), and NS TEs (generated in a prior trade), Once you've done that, you may get NS TEs for outgoing that is leftover, if you are over the cap.

In this trade ....

CHI
1 Butler outgoing to allow Lavine incoming, and received a NS TE for the diff in salary
2 Added Dunn using a prior existing NS TE (someone will know the prior trade in which that NS TE was generated, but I do not)

MINN
1 Added Butler using cap room. Being under the cap, they neither had NS TEs to use, nor were awarded any.

[TheBallDoLie]

Just ignore the picks. You don't have to match up something-for-something in each segment of the trade. You only have to have the overall trade including something of value from each side. And the picks have no relevance in the trade-matching exercise because they have no trade-matching value.

All they really account for is how to LEGALLY add each incoming piece. You can use cap room, S TEs (generated by the outgoing salary in the trade), and NS TEs (generated in a prior trade), Once you've done that, you may get NS TEs for outgoing that is leftover, if you are over the cap.

In this trade ....

CHI
1 Butler outgoing to allow Lavine incoming, and received a NS TE for the diff in salary
2 Added Dunn using a prior existing NS TE (someone will know the prior trade in which that NS TE was generated, but I do not)

MINN
1 Added Butler using cap room. Being under the cap, they neither had NS TEs to use, nor were awarded any.

The TPE the Bulls used was their exception created in the Taj Gibson trade.