Cutting the cord/streaming Celtic games

[jfs1000d]

I haven't paid for TV since 2005, and cable companies can basically suck my fat Irish **** on that.

144 months x $60 a month = $8,640 = a nice vacation with my wife and kids in Australia and NZ this winter.

And we all know it is more than $60 a month!

Thank you, Reddit NBA streams. I pretty much get HD links on demand for everything, all the time. NBA, NFL, UFC, GoT. But oh no, I have to click through some popups in an Incognito window!

And they do shut it down. All the time. And then some foreign dude on Reddit will post a new stream. Maybe I'll have to hit the back button and pick a new stream once or twice a Sunday while watching NFL RedZone. Gadzooks!

If that works for you, fine. I know cheaper options like that exist.

But, I get so much enjoyment out of these games, and a big part of my life, sometimes I want to put them on my big TV and not worry about if the stream is good, shutdown, casting or have to find it.

I don't want to have to worry about a plugin, if browser is working, or if my computer is connected.

At end of day, I want my game at a price I am willing to pay. Comcast and cable companies are great services. But it isn't the subscriptions that kill your bill. It is the add on fees, cable box fees, DVR fee.

I want tv to go in an app, want my games with no contract, and know what I am paying for.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I get 100% of the enjoyment and 95% of the quality at 0% of the price.

Only event I had a hard time streaming in the last several years was Conor-Floyd, and no way was I paying for that clown show.

I get it. I get around certain thing like STARZ and share accounts. I just don't feel like searching that hard for the feeds.

As my mom says, I worked for a living so I can have AC and cable. That's why I work. If I was going to be hot and not have cable, then why work?

I always thought that was hilarious.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Captain_Caveman]

Your paying for what you want and a pretty reasonable price. The ridiculous add on fees of cable that have you pushing 200 a month is what cutting the cord is about. If everyone is unwilling to pay for content at all we will eventually have no content.

The other thing to be careful with is that sports video rights is a billion dollar business, much more expensive than the music industry. Stealing music or a movie is a one time event. Repeatedly participating in stealing sports streams puts you a risk for getting tracked and nailed with a nice ridiculous bill.

Whaaaaaat? Go ahead and try. You can't punish me for watching an illegal stream that someone else hosted. Not like I am going to download it, either.

Just like the record company industry that already got murdered in the digital age, cable companies are scumbags who are a step above the mafia. There will always be digital content, and people profiting from that content. I'm not worried about it.

I think that law is debatable Cave, as someone who is in media. You aren't in jeopardy now. If you downloaded it, then you take possession. If you stream, then it is the streamers issue. That said, the places that facilitate the finding of illegal streams, such as reddit, are going to be held liable, eventually. The message boards will end up killing those links are pay. If fines. That's what will happen when the tv industry decides it is time to do that.

That's coming. Why? Because the people who write the laws are Owned by big media. Once they find a way to enforce it, like music, they will do. Movie and music industry was merciless.

It is coming.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Yup, just like illegal downloading of music stopped after the record companies got Napster shut down.

Except no, the exact opposite happened. Because copyright laws are not global and they move at a snail's pace compared to the technology in question. I don't even need to own music anymore. YouTube keeps it nice and warm for me. Any song. Any time. I just click play.

[Captain_Caveman]

If that works for you, fine. I know cheaper options like that exist.

But, I get so much enjoyment out of these games, and a big part of my life, sometimes I want to put them on my big TV and not worry about if the stream is good, shutdown, casting or have to find it.

I don't want to have to worry about a plugin, if browser is working, or if my computer is connected.

At end of day, I want my game at a price I am willing to pay. Comcast and cable companies are great services. But it isn't the subscriptions that kill your bill. It is the add on fees, cable box fees, DVR fee.

I want tv to go in an app, want my games with no contract, and know what I am paying for.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I get 100% of the enjoyment and 95% of the quality at 0% of the price.

Only event I had a hard time streaming in the last several years was Conor-Floyd, and no way was I paying for that clown show.

I get it. I get around certain thing like STARZ and share accounts. I just don't feel like searching that hard for the feeds.

As my mom says, I worked for a living so I can have AC and cable. That's why I work. If I was going to be hot and not have cable, then why work?

I always thought that was hilarious.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

That's cool. I work so I can own a nice house and a truck, and to buy my wife some sexy lingerie while we plan vacations to Australia and New Zealand.

[jfs1000d]

Whaaaaaat? Go ahead and try. You can't punish me for watching an illegal stream that someone else hosted. Not like I am going to download it, either.

Just like the record company industry that already got murdered in the digital age, cable companies are scumbags who are a step above the mafia. There will always be digital content, and people profiting from that content. I'm not worried about it.

I think that law is debatable Cave, as someone who is in media. You aren't in jeopardy now. If you downloaded it, then you take possession. If you stream, then it is the streamers issue. That said, the places that facilitate the finding of illegal streams, such as reddit, are going to be held liable, eventually. The message boards will end up killing those links are pay. If fines. That's what will happen when the tv industry decides it is time to do that.

That's coming. Why? Because the people who write the laws are Owned by big media. Once they find a way to enforce it, like music, they will do. Movie and music industry was merciless.

It is coming.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Yup, just like illegal downloading of music stopped after the record companies got Napster shut down.

Except no, the exact opposite happened. Because copyright laws are not global and they move at a snail's pace compared to the technology in question. I don't even need to own music anymore. YouTube keeps it nice and warm for me. Any song. Any time. I just click play.

Exactly. The goal is to make it difficult. And YouTube, that's all licensed. The artist gets a cut of that somewhere. That's my point. The reason we have streaming is people liked the ease of the illegal streams. Hence, the market made skinny bundles and Togo TV. Imo vue is at a price point that makes finding pirated streams a hassle. If I was Paying $250 a month for this stuff? I would find the stream.

Many cable entities recognize this and are unbundling their channels to entice people to pay for skinny bundles. I think it is working. We'll see what price does in future.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Captain_Caveman]

I think that law is debatable Cave, as someone who is in media. You aren't in jeopardy now. If you downloaded it, then you take possession. If you stream, then it is the streamers issue. That said, the places that facilitate the finding of illegal streams, such as reddit, are going to be held liable, eventually. The message boards will end up killing those links are pay. If fines. That's what will happen when the tv industry decides it is time to do that.

That's coming. Why? Because the people who write the laws are Owned by big media. Once they find a way to enforce it, like music, they will do. Movie and music industry was merciless.

It is coming.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Yup, just like illegal downloading of music stopped after the record companies got Napster shut down.

Except no, the exact opposite happened. Because copyright laws are not global and they move at a snail's pace compared to the technology in question. I don't even need to own music anymore. YouTube keeps it nice and warm for me. Any song. Any time. I just click play.

Exactly. The goal is to make it difficult. And YouTube, that's all licensed. The artist gets a cut of that somewhere. That's my point. The reason we have streaming is people liked the ease of the illegal streams. Hence, the market made skinny bundles and Togo TV. Imo vue is at a price point that makes finding pirated streams a hassle. If I was Paying $250 a month for this stuff? I would find the stream.

Many cable entities recognize this and are unbundling their channels to entice people to pay for skinny bundles. I think it is working. We'll see what price does in future.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

At least half of youtube isn't licensed, IMO. I can also download any song that they host for free.

The record companies adapted and cut their losses, but they didn't win.

[jfs1000d]

Yup, just like illegal downloading of music stopped after the record companies got Napster shut down.

Except no, the exact opposite happened. Because copyright laws are not global and they move at a snail's pace compared to the technology in question. I don't even need to own music anymore. YouTube keeps it nice and warm for me. Any song. Any time. I just click play.

Exactly. The goal is to make it difficult. And YouTube, that's all licensed. The artist gets a cut of that somewhere. That's my point. The reason we have streaming is people liked the ease of the illegal streams. Hence, the market made skinny bundles and Togo TV. Imo vue is at a price point that makes finding pirated streams a hassle. If I was Paying $250 a month for this stuff? I would find the stream.

Many cable entities recognize this and are unbundling their channels to entice people to pay for skinny bundles. I think it is working. We'll see what price does in future.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

At least half of youtube isn't licensed, IMO. I can also download any song that they host for free.

Yeah. But google gets paid as you watch the pre-roll. People getting paid in some way by google. And, if a guy has a copyright issue, very easy to take it down.

I think we are getting off topic. There is a way to go totally script free with Kodi etc. it works. I think you have to be prepared to adapt if you go that way and understand that it won't last forever.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Captain_Caveman]

Exactly. The goal is to make it difficult. And YouTube, that's all licensed. The artist gets a cut of that somewhere. That's my point. The reason we have streaming is people liked the ease of the illegal streams. Hence, the market made skinny bundles and Togo TV. Imo vue is at a price point that makes finding pirated streams a hassle. If I was Paying $250 a month for this stuff? I would find the stream.

Many cable entities recognize this and are unbundling their channels to entice people to pay for skinny bundles. I think it is working. We'll see what price does in future.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

At least half of youtube isn't licensed, IMO. I can also download any song that they host for free.

Yeah. But google gets paid as you watch the pre-roll. People getting paid in some way by google. And, if a guy has a copyright issue, very easy to take it down.

I think we are getting off topic. There is a way to go totally script free with Kodi etc. it works. I think you have to be prepared to adapt if you go that way and understand that it won't last forever.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, but I don't think that is the point that you are making, which is that the TV companies are powerful and in control of this, or able to "shut it down" somehow. The opposite couldn't be more true. The music downloaders won, period. The streamers are doing the same. The record companies took a huge L and were forced to adapt to it. The same thing is happening to cable companies right now.

They aren't giving skinny packages out because they are nice people. They looked their own obsolescence in the face and decided to cut their losses and adapt. Cable companies will survive, in a less corporate greedy kinda way. They will still get advertising and some degree of subscription revenue.

And I will get free streams. Been getting free music for almost 20 years. Been getting free TV for 12 years, and free streams for almost 10. Not gonna stop me.

[sam_I_am]

$300 a month for cable TV, phone and internet .... and the Red Sox playoff game could not be seen. Cable TV and landlines are useless now anyway. I'm ready to cut the cord too. Although I really didn't care about the Sox tbh because baseball has become too boring to watch.

[sully00]

But paying for Vue isn't really cord cutting. You pay for the internet and vue, which essentially is your new 'cable' bill... So what have you achieved?

Your paying for what you want and a pretty reasonable price. The ridiculous add on fees of cable that have you pushing 200 a month is what cutting the cord is about. If everyone is unwilling to pay for content at all we will eventually have no content.

The other thing to be careful with is that sports video rights is a billion dollar business, much more expensive than the music industry. Stealing music or a movie is a one time event. Repeatedly participating in stealing sports streams puts you a risk for getting tracked and nailed with a nice ridiculous bill.

Whaaaaaat? Go ahead and try. You can't punish me for watching an illegal stream that someone else hosted. Not like I am going to download it, either.

Just like the record company industry that already got murdered in the digital age, cable companies are scumbags who are a step above the mafia. There will always be digital content, and people profiting from that content. I'm not worried about it.

Yes they can lots of people got hit with 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars they couldn't pay over illegal downloads. But music is music when they got upset was around movies. The law is clear on this just read that blue screen on every movie you have ever watched since VHS came out.

This isn't about the cable companies this will be about Disney finding away to pay for all of the sports rights agreements ESPN is on the hook for. They have always been at the top of the industry and locking their content down. I have no doubt that they will find away to put a tracking cookie in their streams I think that is why they are launching their own service and already limit the ability to download their streaming content.

I am not talking about doing it a couple of times a season. I am talking about doing it for all the major sports all year long, more importantly I am talking about the account holder who is turning around and facilitating the stream those are the people that Disney will come down on.

[VeryMuchWoke]

I think that law is debatable Cave, as someone who is in media. You aren't in jeopardy now. If you downloaded it, then you take possession. If you stream, then it is the streamers issue. That said, the places that facilitate the finding of illegal streams, such as reddit, are going to be held liable, eventually. The message boards will end up killing those links are pay. If fines. That's what will happen when the tv industry decides it is time to do that.

That's coming. Why? Because the people who write the laws are Owned by big media. Once they find a way to enforce it, like music, they will do. Movie and music industry was merciless.

It is coming.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, well Facebook, Google, Twitter and some other large companies might be interested in taking the opposite side of that. If they the media companies could pass such a law they would have done so already.

It's a bit of a cat-and-mouse game, but ultimately there are too many pirates across too many jurisdictions with ever-changing means of getting the content to the people. The best the big companies can do is make pirating a little less convenient than legitimate sources, and then charge a slight premium for that convenience.

[Captain_Caveman]

Your paying for what you want and a pretty reasonable price. The ridiculous add on fees of cable that have you pushing 200 a month is what cutting the cord is about. If everyone is unwilling to pay for content at all we will eventually have no content.

The other thing to be careful with is that sports video rights is a billion dollar business, much more expensive than the music industry. Stealing music or a movie is a one time event. Repeatedly participating in stealing sports streams puts you a risk for getting tracked and nailed with a nice ridiculous bill.

Whaaaaaat? Go ahead and try. You can't punish me for watching an illegal stream that someone else hosted. Not like I am going to download it, either.

Just like the record company industry that already got murdered in the digital age, cable companies are scumbags who are a step above the mafia. There will always be digital content, and people profiting from that content. I'm not worried about it.

Yes they can lots of people got hit with 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars they couldn't pay over illegal downloads. But music is music when they got upset was around movies. The law is clear on this just read that blue screen on every movie you have ever watched since VHS came out.

This isn't about the cable companies this will be about Disney finding away to pay for all of the sports rights agreements ESPN is on the hook for. They have always been at the top of the industry and locking their content down. I have no doubt that they will find away to put a tracking cookie in their streams I think that is why they are launching their own service and already limit the ability to download their streaming content.

I am not talking about doing it a couple of times a season. I am talking about doing it for all the major sports all year long, more importantly I am talking about the account holder who is turning around and facilitating the stream those are the people that Disney will come down on.

OK, so I guess we agree that "participating" in stealing sports streams by watching them is not going to get anyone fined, no matter how often you do that. Many, if not most, streams are also hosted out of the US, btw.

In conclusion, as someone who has been online for about 35 years now, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that nothing will stop illegal streaming, and that there's not a goddamn thing that ESPN or Disney can do about it.

Further, nothing will ever happen to me or the millions of people who do the same. Big media is even more powerless to stop it than the record companies were.

Mickey Mouse can suck a **** ***.

[jfs1000d]

I think that law is debatable Cave, as someone who is in media. You aren't in jeopardy now. If you downloaded it, then you take possession. If you stream, then it is the streamers issue. That said, the places that facilitate the finding of illegal streams, such as reddit, are going to be held liable, eventually. The message boards will end up killing those links are pay. If fines. That's what will happen when the tv industry decides it is time to do that.

That's coming. Why? Because the people who write the laws are Owned by big media. Once they find a way to enforce it, like music, they will do. Movie and music industry was merciless.

It is coming.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, well Facebook, Google, Twitter and some other large companies might be interested in taking the opposite side of that. If they the media companies could pass such a law they would have done so already.

It's a bit of a cat-and-mouse game, but ultimately there are too many pirates across too many jurisdictions with ever-changing means of getting the content to the people. The best the big companies can do is make pirating a little less convenient than legitimate sources, and then charge a slight premium for that convenience.

Media companies will sue and stop t when it starts really cutting into business. Right now, there is a migration away from cable because of price. But the industry long term is robust on the rights holder side.

Sports Packages remain gold as content providers because it is one of the few events you have to watch live. Whomever has the content is going to survive. When illegal streaming hits a critical mass, then they will do something about it.

Right now, in streaming world, content is hot. Netflix has great content, Amazon and Hulu have great content. HBO has great content. Espn, also, in sports has great content.

That is what will survive.

That's why twitter, yahoo and Amazon have tried to get live sports in the last couple of years.

Watch what happens when Netflix decides to get into live sports content.

Anyhow, off topic, but illegal streaming is just a gnat biting the ankles of a giant. Much like stealing cable never killed the cable industry.





Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[VeryMuchWoke]

I think that law is debatable Cave, as someone who is in media. You aren't in jeopardy now. If you downloaded it, then you take possession. If you stream, then it is the streamers issue. That said, the places that facilitate the finding of illegal streams, such as reddit, are going to be held liable, eventually. The message boards will end up killing those links are pay. If fines. That's what will happen when the tv industry decides it is time to do that.

That's coming. Why? Because the people who write the laws are Owned by big media. Once they find a way to enforce it, like music, they will do. Movie and music industry was merciless.

It is coming.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, well Facebook, Google, Twitter and some other large companies might be interested in taking the opposite side of that. If they the media companies could pass such a law they would have done so already.

It's a bit of a cat-and-mouse game, but ultimately there are too many pirates across too many jurisdictions with ever-changing means of getting the content to the people. The best the big companies can do is make pirating a little less convenient than legitimate sources, and then charge a slight premium for that convenience.

Media companies will sue and stop t when it starts really cutting into business. Right now, there is a migration away from cable because of price. But the industry long term is robust on the rights holder side.

Sports Packages remain gold as content providers because it is one of the few events you have to watch live. Whomever has the content is going to survive. When illegal streaming hits a critical mass, then they will do something about it.

Right now, in streaming world, content is hot. Netflix has great content, Amazon and Hulu have great content. HBO has great content. Espn, also, in sports has great content.

That is what will survive.

That's why twitter, yahoo and Amazon have tried to get live sports in the last couple of years.

Watch what happens when Netflix decides to get into live sports content.

Anyhow, off topic, but illegal streaming is just a gnat biting the ankles of a giant. Much like stealing cable never killed the cable industry.





Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Over the past 5 years the S&P is up 80%.
20th Century Fox is FLAT
Discovery Communications is down 60%
CBS Corp is up 60% (their beta is 1.36 so this is significant underperformance).
Disney is holding up fine, but that's more than one business, and ESPN just fired a ton of people because subscriptions are down.
Viacom is down 50%.

A lot of these stocks are getting hit hard. If cord-cutting isn't the issue what is your explanation?

Look at Dish. Why do you think they are willing to cannibalize their own subscribers with Sling TV, at a lower price point? They are doing just what Caveman said, adapting. This is why I said "The best the big companies can do is make pirating a little less convenient than legitimate sources, and then charge a slight premium for that convenience." This is exactly what the cable companies are doing when they move into online streaming - they'd rather have a $20/month customer than no customer at all and young people would rather shell out $20/month then have the hassle of finding pirated sources for each of their shows online.

Cord-cutting is a major problem for these companies. My parent's are in their 60's and 70's and they're totally happy giving up the old technology and consuming all their video from a fire tv, so imagine how bad it's going to be in 20 years when the entire market grew up with computers.

[sully00]

Whaaaaaat? Go ahead and try. You can't punish me for watching an illegal stream that someone else hosted. Not like I am going to download it, either.

Just like the record company industry that already got murdered in the digital age, cable companies are scumbags who are a step above the mafia. There will always be digital content, and people profiting from that content. I'm not worried about it.

Yes they can lots of people got hit with 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars they couldn't pay over illegal downloads. But music is music when they got upset was around movies. The law is clear on this just read that blue screen on every movie you have ever watched since VHS came out.

This isn't about the cable companies this will be about Disney finding away to pay for all of the sports rights agreements ESPN is on the hook for. They have always been at the top of the industry and locking their content down. I have no doubt that they will find away to put a tracking cookie in their streams I think that is why they are launching their own service and already limit the ability to download their streaming content.

I am not talking about doing it a couple of times a season. I am talking about doing it for all the major sports all year long, more importantly I am talking about the account holder who is turning around and facilitating the stream those are the people that Disney will come down on.

OK, so I guess we agree that "participating" in stealing sports streams by watching them is not going to get anyone fined, no matter how often you do that. Many, if not most, streams are also hosted out of the US, btw.

In conclusion, as someone who has been online for about 35 years now, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that nothing will stop illegal streaming, and that there's not a goddamn thing that ESPN or Disney can do about it.

Further, nothing will ever happen to me or the millions of people who do the same. Big media is even more powerless to stop it than the record companies were.

Mickey Mouse can suck a **** ***.

You are vastly under rating the power of Disney and their control on the sports streaming market that they have yet to actually unleash. My kids are into super hero shows and star wars so this is going to happen all around. Right now Disney content is streamed all over the place on all kinds of formats. Over the next year or so that will end all streaming of their content will originate with them. How they chose to protect that content is still up for grabs.

Don't misunderstand what happens when you get nailed for stealing and distributing content it isn't a fine you be criminally prosecuted but it is usually getting sued and it is all an exercise in punishment not for financial gain.

But more importantly don't confuse Disney and other media companies indifference towards the losses of local cable providers they are using this as an opportunity to eliminate that aspect of content distribution.

Hackers will always hack but my guess is that once Disney controls the origination of all of its streaming content they will be able to inflict a lot more pressure on those distributing their content illegally and openly. Doesn't really impact the end consumer necessarily except that it will have to go underground more and not be as easily accessible.

[truth18]

Yes they can lots of people got hit with 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars they couldn't pay over illegal downloads. But music is music when they got upset was around movies. The law is clear on this just read that blue screen on every movie you have ever watched since VHS came out.

This isn't about the cable companies this will be about Disney finding away to pay for all of the sports rights agreements ESPN is on the hook for. They have always been at the top of the industry and locking their content down. I have no doubt that they will find away to put a tracking cookie in their streams I think that is why they are launching their own service and already limit the ability to download their streaming content.

I am not talking about doing it a couple of times a season. I am talking about doing it for all the major sports all year long, more importantly I am talking about the account holder who is turning around and facilitating the stream those are the people that Disney will come down on.

OK, so I guess we agree that "participating" in stealing sports streams by watching them is not going to get anyone fined, no matter how often you do that. Many, if not most, streams are also hosted out of the US, btw.

In conclusion, as someone who has been online for about 35 years now, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that nothing will stop illegal streaming, and that there's not a goddamn thing that ESPN or Disney can do about it.

Further, nothing will ever happen to me or the millions of people who do the same. Big media is even more powerless to stop it than the record companies were.

Mickey Mouse can suck a **** ***.

Hackers will always hack but my guess is that once Disney controls the origination of all of its streaming content they will be able to inflict a lot more pressure on those distributing their content illegally and openly. Doesn't really impact the end consumer necessarily except that it will have to go underground more and not be as easily accessible.

Going from reddit to Google search doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Illegal streams were incredibly easy to find before reddit.

I agree that nothing will stop illegal streaming outside of Net Neutrality changes.

[jfs1000d]

Yeah, well Facebook, Google, Twitter and some other large companies might be interested in taking the opposite side of that. If they the media companies could pass such a law they would have done so already.

It's a bit of a cat-and-mouse game, but ultimately there are too many pirates across too many jurisdictions with ever-changing means of getting the content to the people. The best the big companies can do is make pirating a little less convenient than legitimate sources, and then charge a slight premium for that convenience.

Media companies will sue and stop t when it starts really cutting into business. Right now, there is a migration away from cable because of price. But the industry long term is robust on the rights holder side.

Sports Packages remain gold as content providers because it is one of the few events you have to watch live. Whomever has the content is going to survive. When illegal streaming hits a critical mass, then they will do something about it.

Right now, in streaming world, content is hot. Netflix has great content, Amazon and Hulu have great content. HBO has great content. Espn, also, in sports has great content.

That is what will survive.

That's why twitter, yahoo and Amazon have tried to get live sports in the last couple of years.

Watch what happens when Netflix decides to get into live sports content.

Anyhow, off topic, but illegal streaming is just a gnat biting the ankles of a giant. Much like stealing cable never killed the cable industry.





Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Over the past 5 years the S&P is up 80%.
20th Century Fox is FLAT
Discovery Communications is down 60%
CBS Corp is up 60% (their beta is 1.36 so this is significant underperformance).
Disney is holding up fine, but that's more than one business, and ESPN just fired a ton of people because subscriptions are down.
Viacom is down 50%.

A lot of these stocks are getting hit hard. If cord-cutting isn't the issue what is your explanation?

Look at Dish. Why do you think they are willing to cannibalize their own subscribers with Sling TV, at a lower price point? They are doing just what Caveman said, adapting. This is why I said "The best the big companies can do is make pirating a little less convenient than legitimate sources, and then charge a slight premium for that convenience." This is exactly what the cable companies are doing when they move into online streaming - they'd rather have a $20/month customer than no customer at all and young people would rather shell out $20/month then have the hassle of finding pirated sources for each of their shows online.

Cord-cutting is a major problem for these companies. My parent's are in their 60's and 70's and they're totally happy giving up the old technology and consuming all their video from a fire tv, so imagine how bad it's going to be in 20 years when the entire market grew up with computers.

My explanation is content is king. I know what I am talking about this realm, looking at the sell side ratings of DIS.

Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, and other content producers are the kings of media going forward. Not the distributors.

For media companies with valuable content holdings, how has their stock done. Look at the multiples of Netflix and Amazon (yes retail and AWS are a big part, but they woulnd' tbe in media if they weren't robust on it).

Cord cutting has had a tremendous affect on the industry. It is destroying the base for linear cable networks. And, if you have content that isn't must have, such as Viacom, you are going to get killed. For as much as ESPN has had the stupid non-investor types yell gloom and doom, why is disney still growing?

Right now, ESPn is in a shift from a customer base that was bundeled to unbundling.They still own the most valuable sports properties in the world and they have a delivery mechanism and are a must-have for any skinny bundle that wants to get off the floor. When you factor that in, and their purchase of BAM that will develop a state of the art streaming service, then you see where they think their business is going.

There is a floor for sub losses. They were at 100 million, and they may soon find themselves at 75 million. The company isn't going to zero subs. So, we have to stop looking at Fox's Clay Travis as some guy who knows what he is talking about.

The linear networks are in trouble, especially ones that don't produce must-have content. The old days was all you needed was to get carriage on a bundle and it didn't matter what you produced. Now, you need to have good stuff.

no one like to play for content, but people pay for Hulu, Amazon, netflix, spotify etc.

Hmmm. The reason is those companies deliver great content how the consumer wants it. If you are watching netflix shows pirated, I guess that is OK. But the service is flat out worth the $10 a month.

TV networks are in trouble. Media companies that produce great content, they can write their own meal ticket.

[jfs1000d]

Media companies will sue and stop t when it starts really cutting into business. Right now, there is a migration away from cable because of price. But the industry long term is robust on the rights holder side.

Sports Packages remain gold as content providers because it is one of the few events you have to watch live. Whomever has the content is going to survive. When illegal streaming hits a critical mass, then they will do something about it.

Right now, in streaming world, content is hot. Netflix has great content, Amazon and Hulu have great content. HBO has great content. Espn, also, in sports has great content.

That is what will survive.

That's why twitter, yahoo and Amazon have tried to get live sports in the last couple of years.

Watch what happens when Netflix decides to get into live sports content.

Anyhow, off topic, but illegal streaming is just a gnat biting the ankles of a giant. Much like stealing cable never killed the cable industry.





Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Over the past 5 years the S&P is up 80%.
20th Century Fox is FLAT
Discovery Communications is down 60%
CBS Corp is up 60% (their beta is 1.36 so this is significant underperformance).
Disney is holding up fine, but that's more than one business, and ESPN just fired a ton of people because subscriptions are down.
Viacom is down 50%.

A lot of these stocks are getting hit hard. If cord-cutting isn't the issue what is your explanation?

Look at Dish. Why do you think they are willing to cannibalize their own subscribers with Sling TV, at a lower price point? They are doing just what Caveman said, adapting. This is why I said "The best the big companies can do is make pirating a little less convenient than legitimate sources, and then charge a slight premium for that convenience." This is exactly what the cable companies are doing when they move into online streaming - they'd rather have a $20/month customer than no customer at all and young people would rather shell out $20/month then have the hassle of finding pirated sources for each of their shows online.

Cord-cutting is a major problem for these companies. My parent's are in their 60's and 70's and they're totally happy giving up the old technology and consuming all their video from a fire tv, so imagine how bad it's going to be in 20 years when the entire market grew up with computers.

My explanation is content is king. I know what I am talking about this realm, looking at the sell side ratings of DIS.

Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, and other content producers are the kings of media going forward. Not the distributors.

For media companies with valuable content holdings, how has their stock done. Look at the multiples of Netflix and Amazon (yes retail and AWS are a big part, but they woulnd' tbe in media if they weren't robust on it).

Cord cutting has had a tremendous affect on the industry. It is destroying the base for linear cable networks. And, if you have content that isn't must have, such as Viacom, you are going to get killed. For as much as ESPN has had the stupid non-investor types yell gloom and doom, why is disney still growing?

Right now, ESPn is in a shift from a customer base that was bundeled to unbundling.They still own the most valuable sports properties in the world and they have a delivery mechanism and are a must-have for any skinny bundle that wants to get off the floor. When you factor that in, and their purchase of BAM that will develop a state of the art streaming service, then you see where they think their business is going.

There is a floor for sub losses. They were at 100 million, and they may soon find themselves at 75 million. The company isn't going to zero subs. So, we have to stop looking at Fox's Clay Travis as some guy who knows what he is talking about.

The linear networks are in trouble, especially ones that don't produce must-have content. The old days was all you needed was to get carriage on a bundle and it didn't matter what you produced. Now, you need to have good stuff.

no one like to pay for content, but people pay for Hulu, Amazon, netflix, spotify etc.

Hmmm. The reason is those companies deliver great content how the consumer wants it. If you are watching netflix shows pirated, I guess that is OK. But the service is flat out worth the $10 a month.

TV networks are in trouble. Media companies that produce great content, they can write their own meal ticket.

Lastly, there was a technical disruption in media that has changed the paradigm. Newspapers, Music then movies and now TV are dealing with it.

But, like everything, those who have great content and valuable properties will survive. I am a long term hold on all those good media companies.

[Captain_Caveman]

Yes they can lots of people got hit with 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars they couldn't pay over illegal downloads. But music is music when they got upset was around movies. The law is clear on this just read that blue screen on every movie you have ever watched since VHS came out.

This isn't about the cable companies this will be about Disney finding away to pay for all of the sports rights agreements ESPN is on the hook for. They have always been at the top of the industry and locking their content down. I have no doubt that they will find away to put a tracking cookie in their streams I think that is why they are launching their own service and already limit the ability to download their streaming content.

I am not talking about doing it a couple of times a season. I am talking about doing it for all the major sports all year long, more importantly I am talking about the account holder who is turning around and facilitating the stream those are the people that Disney will come down on.

OK, so I guess we agree that "participating" in stealing sports streams by watching them is not going to get anyone fined, no matter how often you do that. Many, if not most, streams are also hosted out of the US, btw.

In conclusion, as someone who has been online for about 35 years now, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that nothing will stop illegal streaming, and that there's not a goddamn thing that ESPN or Disney can do about it.

Further, nothing will ever happen to me or the millions of people who do the same. Big media is even more powerless to stop it than the record companies were.

Mickey Mouse can suck a **** ***.

You are vastly under rating the power of Disney and their control on the sports streaming market that they have yet to actually unleash. My kids are into super hero shows and star wars so this is going to happen all around. Right now Disney content is streamed all over the place on all kinds of formats. Over the next year or so that will end all streaming of their content will originate with them. How they chose to protect that content is still up for grabs.

Don't misunderstand what happens when you get nailed for stealing and distributing content it isn't a fine you be criminally prosecuted but it is usually getting sued and it is all an exercise in punishment not for financial gain.

But more importantly don't confuse Disney and other media companies indifference towards the losses of local cable providers they are using this as an opportunity to eliminate that aspect of content distribution.

Hackers will always hack but my guess is that once Disney controls the origination of all of its streaming content they will be able to inflict a lot more pressure on those distributing their content illegally and openly. Doesn't really impact the end consumer necessarily except that it will have to go underground more and not be as easily accessible.

Every word of this is wrong, but I'm not mad.

You don't even need to be a hacker for any of this. Anyone can record video from their own TV or laptop and host that file. The second a big movie is released for home viewing, it is getting hosted all over the world in thousands of places. I can get that Disney movie the same day it comes out. When I am watching a sports stream, it's even easier. A person is basically linking me to sounds and images being played on their own television, not to some major media company.

If there were 1-2 people hosting in NY or whatever, yeah, they could shut it down. But it is millions of people around the world using basic technology. Disney can't do **** about some dude using a TOR browser in Latvia. They don't have one chance in a million of stopping this. Not one.

[jfs1000d]

OK, so I guess we agree that "participating" in stealing sports streams by watching them is not going to get anyone fined, no matter how often you do that. Many, if not most, streams are also hosted out of the US, btw.

In conclusion, as someone who has been online for about 35 years now, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that nothing will stop illegal streaming, and that there's not a goddamn thing that ESPN or Disney can do about it.

Further, nothing will ever happen to me or the millions of people who do the same. Big media is even more powerless to stop it than the record companies were.

Mickey Mouse can suck a **** ***.

You are vastly under rating the power of Disney and their control on the sports streaming market that they have yet to actually unleash. My kids are into super hero shows and star wars so this is going to happen all around. Right now Disney content is streamed all over the place on all kinds of formats. Over the next year or so that will end all streaming of their content will originate with them. How they chose to protect that content is still up for grabs.

Don't misunderstand what happens when you get nailed for stealing and distributing content it isn't a fine you be criminally prosecuted but it is usually getting sued and it is all an exercise in punishment not for financial gain.

But more importantly don't confuse Disney and other media companies indifference towards the losses of local cable providers they are using this as an opportunity to eliminate that aspect of content distribution.

Hackers will always hack but my guess is that once Disney controls the origination of all of its streaming content they will be able to inflict a lot more pressure on those distributing their content illegally and openly. Doesn't really impact the end consumer necessarily except that it will have to go underground more and not be as easily accessible.

Every word of this is wrong, but I'm not mad.

You don't even need to be a hacker for any of this. Anyone can record video from their own TV or laptop and host that file. The second a big movie is released for home viewing, it is getting hosted all over the world in thousands of places. I can get that Disney movie the same day it comes out. When I am watching a sports stream, it's even easier. A person is basically linking me to sounds and images being played on their own television, not to some major media company.

If there were 1-2 people hosting in NY or whatever, yeah, they could shut it down. But it is millions of people around the world using basic technology. Disney can't do **** about some dude using a TOR browser in Latvia. They don't have one chance in a million of stopping this. Not one.

Cave. All they will do is make it harder, and, they will pass on that cost to their consumer who will pay. You aren't really beating the network companies here. The amount of revenue is staggering.

Music and movie industries seriously were losing money off these things. Especially music. So, they sued eveyrone into oblivion and then started a pay service like Itunes that revolutionized the industry.

The thought that a person streaming games illegally on the internet is someone lost revenue...technically I guess it is. But that loss is already priced in.

The people who are paying for the streaming are subsidizing those that steal it. It's baked in. Look at those revenues those companies bring in. MY GOD. They make so much money, and they control the rights.

[VeryMuchWoke]

Media companies will sue and stop t when it starts really cutting into business. Right now, there is a migration away from cable because of price. But the industry long term is robust on the rights holder side.

Sports Packages remain gold as content providers because it is one of the few events you have to watch live. Whomever has the content is going to survive. When illegal streaming hits a critical mass, then they will do something about it.

Right now, in streaming world, content is hot. Netflix has great content, Amazon and Hulu have great content. HBO has great content. Espn, also, in sports has great content.

That is what will survive.

That's why twitter, yahoo and Amazon have tried to get live sports in the last couple of years.

Watch what happens when Netflix decides to get into live sports content.

Anyhow, off topic, but illegal streaming is just a gnat biting the ankles of a giant. Much like stealing cable never killed the cable industry.





Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Over the past 5 years the S&P is up 80%.
20th Century Fox is FLAT
Discovery Communications is down 60%
CBS Corp is up 60% (their beta is 1.36 so this is significant underperformance).
Disney is holding up fine, but that's more than one business, and ESPN just fired a ton of people because subscriptions are down.
Viacom is down 50%.

A lot of these stocks are getting hit hard. If cord-cutting isn't the issue what is your explanation?

Look at Dish. Why do you think they are willing to cannibalize their own subscribers with Sling TV, at a lower price point? They are doing just what Caveman said, adapting. This is why I said "The best the big companies can do is make pirating a little less convenient than legitimate sources, and then charge a slight premium for that convenience." This is exactly what the cable companies are doing when they move into online streaming - they'd rather have a $20/month customer than no customer at all and young people would rather shell out $20/month then have the hassle of finding pirated sources for each of their shows online.

Cord-cutting is a major problem for these companies. My parent's are in their 60's and 70's and they're totally happy giving up the old technology and consuming all their video from a fire tv, so imagine how bad it's going to be in 20 years when the entire market grew up with computers.

My explanation is content is king. I know what I am talking about this realm, looking at the sell side ratings of DIS.

Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, and other content producers are the kings of media going forward. Not the distributors.

For media companies with valuable content holdings, how has their stock done. Look at the multiples of Netflix and Amazon (yes retail and AWS are a big part, but they woulnd' tbe in media if they weren't robust on it).

Cord cutting has had a tremendous affect on the industry. It is destroying the base for linear cable networks. And, if you have content that isn't must have, such as Viacom, you are going to get killed. For as much as ESPN has had the stupid non-investor types yell gloom and doom, why is disney still growing?

Right now, ESPn is in a shift from a customer base that was bundeled to unbundling.They still own the most valuable sports properties in the world and they have a delivery mechanism and are a must-have for any skinny bundle that wants to get off the floor. When you factor that in, and their purchase of BAM that will develop a state of the art streaming service, then you see where they think their business is going.

There is a floor for sub losses. They were at 100 million, and they may soon find themselves at 75 million. The company isn't going to zero subs. So, we have to stop looking at Fox's Clay Travis as some guy who knows what he is talking about.

The linear networks are in trouble, especially ones that don't produce must-have content. The old days was all you needed was to get carriage on a bundle and it didn't matter what you produced. Now, you need to have good stuff.

no one like to play for content, but people pay for Hulu, Amazon, netflix, spotify etc.

Hmmm. The reason is those companies deliver great content how the consumer wants it. If you are watching netflix shows pirated, I guess that is OK. But the service is flat out worth the $10 a month.

TV networks are in trouble. Media companies that produce great content, they can write their own meal ticket.

The high multiples just prove my point. Amazon and Netflix have high multiples because they are growth stories (note that they are growing revenues, at an amazing rate but earnings not so much).

Here are Netflix's Earnings (Revenue) over the last 5 years:

17M (3.61B), 112M (4.37B), 267M (5.5B), 123M (6.78B), 187M (8.83B).

Here are the net profit margins:

.5%, 2.5%, 4.9%, 1.8%, 2.1%

Why do you think they operate with these razor thin margins? It's because that's all they can charge. When they up prices they lose subscribers. Why? Because a huge segment of their customer base knows how to torrent every bit of exclusive content they have. When they cease to keep up their impressive revenue growth that PE ratio is going to come crashing down and the stock is going to be worth 1/10th of what it is now.

Content is king only in the sense that it's not completely antiquated like distribution, not in that it yields great gains.

Now you can make the argument that content production costs are more of a capital expense than an operating expense, but as far as capital goes most content has a short shelf life so I'd be hesitant to capitalize a whole lot of those expenditures.