Zach Lowe reluctantly includes Magic in tier of East playoff hopefuls

[YosemiteSam]

It's almost like he is apologizing to his readers for including us

Orlando Magic

Let's get crazy.

There is no reason to be optimistic about the Magic. They ranked 29th in points per possession, and 24th in points allowed. Lineups with Aaron Gordon at power forward, his appropriate position and the one he will mercifully play this season, fared poorly. Continuity doesn't mean much when you bring back mediocre players who don't fit.

But it means something. Look: One of these sorry ass teams is going to randomly win 38 games and butt into the playoff walkathon. Frank Vogel spent a year discovering what doesn't work. Dig deeper, and a lot of the lineups that failed with Gordon at power forward involved Jeff Green and other nonentities who aren't here anymore.

Orlando has a bunch of decent players either entering their primes, or in the thick of them -- including Elfrid Payton and an interesting three-man wing rotation of Evan Fournier, Jonathon Simmons and Terrence Ross. Someone might pop. Maybe several guys make mini-pops -- common at their ages -- that combust into something greater.

The structural problems haven't gone away. Nikola Vucevic can't anchor a defense, and Bismack Biyombo is an anchor that sinks any offense. Spacing will be cramped with Gordon, Payton, and Simmons on the floor -- and, really, with any two of them.

But there is talent here. Vogel can coach. If this team can't win 35 games in this conference, just blow the whole damned thing up. If the new front office pivots in that direction at midseason, shove the Magic into bottom tier.

Rating NBA tiers: Warriors to worst and every team between

[VFX]

It's almost like he is apologizing to his readers for including us

Orlando Magic

Let's get crazy.

There is no reason to be optimistic about the Magic. They ranked 29th in points per possession, and 24th in points allowed. Lineups with Aaron Gordon at power forward, his appropriate position and the one he will mercifully play this season, fared poorly. Continuity doesn't mean much when you bring back mediocre players who don't fit.

But it means something. Look: One of these sorry ass teams is going to randomly win 38 games and butt into the playoff walkathon. Frank Vogel spent a year discovering what doesn't work. Dig deeper, and a lot of the lineups that failed with Gordon at power forward involved Jeff Green and other nonentities who aren't here anymore.

Orlando has a bunch of decent players either entering their primes, or in the thick of them -- including Elfrid Payton and an interesting three-man wing rotation of Evan Fournier, Jonathon Simmons and Terrence Ross. Someone might pop. Maybe several guys make mini-pops -- common at their ages -- that combust into something greater.

The structural problems haven't gone away. Nikola Vucevic can't anchor a defense, and Bismack Biyombo is an anchor that sinks any offense. Spacing will be cramped with Gordon, Payton, and Simmons on the floor -- and, really, with any two of them.

But there is talent here. Vogel can coach. If this team can't win 35 games in this conference, just blow the whole damned thing up. If the new front office pivots in that direction at midseason, shove the Magic into bottom tier.

Rating NBA tiers: Warriors to worst and every team between

100% accurate. We will barely make the playoffs and get swept in the first round.

[AddiFB]

We'll face either Boston or Cleveland in the first round if we make it there..

That matchup is gonna be streamed live on Brazzers

[Nemesis21]

We'll face either Boston or Cleveland in the first round if we make it there..

That matchup is gonna be streamed live on Brazzers

[magicman112]

We'll face either Boston or Cleveland in the first round if we make it there..

That matchup is gonna be streamed live on Brazzers

That's fine, get the young guys a taste of the playoffs and what it's like. Hey the Shaq/Penny Magic team got swept by the Pacers in the firsr round the season before they went to the FInals. Not saying these guys would make that jump but it's good to get the guys who have never experienced it in there.

[ChosenSavior]

I'm glad we are being slept on and frankly we should. We are unproven and haven't done **** since we traded Dwight. I feel things will change though and will hopefully be seen this season.

By the way, that Brazzers comment was hilarious lol.

[Optimus_Steel]

I have a hard time seeing us making the playoffs even if things click better this year. We have major structural problems, one that Lowe pointed out was points per possesion. Last year we were 29th in 3pt shooting %, we may actually "improve" on that and go to 30th. We are still in the bottom 5 in trips to the FT line. Just a disasterous combo.

[PrimeThyme]

If the young guys are flourishing and getting big minutes and they lead us to a 7th or 8th seed ill welcome it. I think it would be a big step for AG, Elf, and Isaac in their development to get playoff experience. I think it would be a great thing for our fan base as well. It would be nice to get some respect and get back in the national spotlight again after all the **** weve been throught the last five years.

[YosemiteSam]

As further proof we don't get any respect (deserved or otherwise) check out the show notes to the annual Bill Simmons NBA Over/Under podcast (spoiler alert - all 3 commentators went under 33 wins)

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons outlines the entire Eastern Conference with help from Joe House and Jason Concepcion. Topics include: the inferior Eastern Conference (6:00), the Bulls' tanking efforts (10:00), the Nets not tanking anymore (18:00), the lack of incentive for the Knicks (24:00), reasons the Pacers will stay competitive (29:00), the awful Orlando Magic (35:00), Philly's chance to take the next step (42:00), the Miami Heat's dark-horse title chances (57:00), Jabari Parker's trade value (1:06:00), the Wizards' chance for a Boogie trade (1:11:00), the Celtics' new core (1:15:00), and Kyrie's relationship with Brad Stevens (1:18:00)

Here's the podcast link NBA Over/Under With Bill Simmons—Eastern Conference

[yoyojw17]

If the young guys are flourishing and getting big minutes and they lead us to a 7th or 8th seed ill welcome it. I think it would be a big step for AG, Elf, and Isaac in their development to get playoff experience. I think it would be a great thing for our fan base as well. It would be nice to get some respect and get back in the national spotlight again after all the **** weve been throught the last five years.

I guess it's all or nothing for some people.... "TANKKKKKK" or "CHAMPIONSHIP".... probably y people get so sour bout the team. They don't wanna trek through that middle ground. on the road to the top. If we make an appearance into the playoffs... that is a huge step forward as we aren't a set team yet as our players are continuing to get better and better. So yes... even the exact team can be much better from year to year as players grow. Now... hope that is not the case as it is managements job to continue to build. Playoff and putting up a fight will be a great step for our YOUNG team. Definitely agreed about the respect part.

[VFX]

If the young guys are flourishing and getting big minutes and they lead us to a 7th or 8th seed ill welcome it. I think it would be a big step for AG, Elf, and Isaac in their development to get playoff experience. I think it would be a great thing for our fan base as well. It would be nice to get some respect and get back in the national spotlight again after all the **** weve been throught the last five years.

I guess it's all or nothing for some people.... "TANKKKKKK" or "CHAMPIONSHIP".... probably y people get so sour bout the team. They don't wanna trek through that middle ground. on the road to the top. If we make an appearance into the playoffs... that is a huge step forward as we aren't a set team yet as our players are continuing to get better and better. So yes... even the exact team can be much better from year to year as players grow. Now... hope that is not the case as it is managements job to continue to build. Playoff and putting up a fight will be a great step for our YOUNG team. Definitely agreed about the respect part.

So you would be ok with being in the same position as Toronto or where the Clippers were over the past few seasons?

Never having enough to win anything and coming up short before your window closes and all your stars leave. Sounds great.

There is a reason why "tank or championship" mentality exists. You, like most of us,were huge fans of our finals team a few years ago. It can disappear way faster than it took to build. Some teams never even get that far with star players, especially now.

[npiper17]

As further proof we don't get any respect (deserved or otherwise) check out the show notes to the annual Bill Simmons NBA Over/Under podcast (spoiler alert - all 3 commentators went under 33 wins)

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons outlines the entire Eastern Conference with help from Joe House and Jason Concepcion. Topics include: the inferior Eastern Conference (6:00), the Bulls' tanking efforts (10:00), the Nets not tanking anymore (18:00), the lack of incentive for the Knicks (24:00), reasons the Pacers will stay competitive (29:00), the awful Orlando Magic (35:00), Philly's chance to take the next step (42:00), the Miami Heat's dark-horse title chances (57:00), Jabari Parker's trade value (1:06:00), the Wizards' chance for a Boogie trade (1:11:00), the Celtics' new core (1:15:00), and Kyrie's relationship with Brad Stevens (1:18:00)

Here's the podcast link NBA Over/Under With Bill Simmons—Eastern Conference

Regardless of his dislike for the Magic, I am still baffled by Bill Simmons’ popularity. I just don’t get it. I mean if you enjoy listening to a guy finding a way to bring everything he talks about back to his beloved Celtics then fair enough.

[yoyojw17]

If the young guys are flourishing and getting big minutes and they lead us to a 7th or 8th seed ill welcome it. I think it would be a big step for AG, Elf, and Isaac in their development to get playoff experience. I think it would be a great thing for our fan base as well. It would be nice to get some respect and get back in the national spotlight again after all the **** weve been throught the last five years.

I guess it's all or nothing for some people.... "TANKKKKKK" or "CHAMPIONSHIP".... probably y people get so sour bout the team. They don't wanna trek through that middle ground. on the road to the top. If we make an appearance into the playoffs... that is a huge step forward as we aren't a set team yet as our players are continuing to get better and better. So yes... even the exact team can be much better from year to year as players grow. Now... hope that is not the case as it is managements job to continue to build. Playoff and putting up a fight will be a great step for our YOUNG team. Definitely agreed about the respect part.

So you would be ok with being in the same position as Toronto or where the Clippers were over the past few seasons?

Never having enough to win anything and coming up short before your window closes and all your stars leave. Sounds great.

There is a reason why "tank or championship" mentality exists. You, like most of us,were huge fans of our finals team a few years ago. It can disappear way faster than it took to build. Some teams never even get that far with star players, especially now.

Hell nah.... but you don't go from 0-60 just like that. there is going to be everything in between. Goal is make the playoffs this year... taste it.... next year... we take another step forward.... and the following another step.... all of this through growth and addition. At the end of the day there are 30 teams.... and only 1 winner. So are there any guarantees... no. But i hope they will field the best possible team they can... with the hopes that that team wins a championship.

[MagicFan101]

We'll face either Boston or Cleveland in the first round if we make it there..

That matchup is gonna be streamed live on Brazzers

lol, nice. Still, I'm embarrassed that I got that joke...

[MagicFan101]

This article makes a lot of sense; especially regarding our C issues. Why can't we play Isaac as our new age C with Biz filling in as the back-up muscle? Vuc has far more trade value than Biz given their contracts and production. He also deserves a better opportunity. Trade him for a reliable shooter perhaps?

Elf, DJ, Mack
Fournier, Simmons
Ross, AA, Mario
AG, Birch, Isaac
Isaac, Biz

+ incoming players from Vuc trade.

[Def Swami]

Not sure making the playoffs at 38 wins means anything. I share nearly the same sentiment as Zach Lowe, but I'm already on the "blow the whole damned thing up" bandwagon, and have a feeling that will be the case by the trade deadline. This team isn't good and lacks any star potential to propel them to relevancy. At its core, it's the same team with the same issues it has had since Dwight Howard was traded; no elite players, a point guard who can't shoot, and centers who can't be on the floor for one reason or another. They were a bad team after the trade deadline last season due to porous defense and a terrible bench. They made an attempt to fix the bench, but I doubt it makes a big difference in the win column. Someone would have to "pop" as Lowe says for us to have any real hope. But we've been waiting for that pop for awhile now. Hammond and Weltman will take this season to figure out what we've already known.

[pepe1991]

Lowe said what most people here feel but won't admit. Most optimistic you can get about this team is getting swept against Celtics or Cavs, or 5 games against Raptors. And where to go from there? Heading into 2019 with Payton and Gordon getting payed like a stars ?

[YosemiteSam]

Not sure making the playoffs at 38 wins means anything. I share nearly the same sentiment as Zach Lowe, but I'm already on the "blow the whole damned thing up" bandwagon, and have a feeling that will be the case by the trade deadline. This team isn't good and lacks any star potential to propel them to relevancy. At its core, it's the same team with the same issues it has had since Dwight Howard was traded; no elite players, a point guard who can't shoot, and centers who can't be on the floor for one reason or another. They were a bad team after the trade deadline last season due to porous defense and a terrible bench. They made an attempt to fix the bench, but I doubt it makes a big difference in the win column. Someone would have to "pop" as Lowe says for us to have any real hope. But we've been waiting for that pop for awhile now. Hammond and Weltman will take this season to figure out what we've already known.

Just curious, by "blow the whole thing up" do you mean trade our assets (meager as they are) for peanuts to then win only around 15 games and try for a top 3 pick? Making sure we don't trade future picks will be key so I don't see how we shed real dead weight like Biz and DJ, so we only trade AG, Elf, Vuc, Ross, Fournier, Simmons etc. That leaves us at least 3-4 more years with no playoffs. Real question: do you think this franchise can survive a 9-10 year playoff drought in this market? Or will we be looking at the championship contender Seattle Magic?

[VFX]

Not sure making the playoffs at 38 wins means anything. I share nearly the same sentiment as Zach Lowe, but I'm already on the "blow the whole damned thing up" bandwagon, and have a feeling that will be the case by the trade deadline. This team isn't good and lacks any star potential to propel them to relevancy. At its core, it's the same team with the same issues it has had since Dwight Howard was traded; no elite players, a point guard who can't shoot, and centers who can't be on the floor for one reason or another. They were a bad team after the trade deadline last season due to porous defense and a terrible bench. They made an attempt to fix the bench, but I doubt it makes a big difference in the win column. Someone would have to "pop" as Lowe says for us to have any real hope. But we've been waiting for that pop for awhile now. Hammond and Weltman will take this season to figure out what we've already known.

Just curious, by "blow the whole thing up" do you mean trade our assets (meager as they are) for peanuts to then win only around 15 games and try for a top 3 pick? Making sure we don't trade future picks will be key so I don't see how we shed real dead weight like Biz and DJ, so we only trade AG, Elf, Vuc, Ross, Fournier, Simmons etc. That leaves us at least 3-4 more years with no playoffs. Real question: do you think this franchise can survive a 9-10 year playoff drought in this market? Or will we be looking at the championship contender Seattle Magic?

I can't speak for Def Swami, but I will say that teams will trade for our younger players potential. The biggest part of why we should "Blow it up" has more to do with the fact the roster still makes no sense, even with young assets with potential.

Our bench is terrible and our worst contracts / hardest players to move make it more difficult for our future. We would have to either move positive assets, or wait until they become free agents.

Yes, making the playoffs is a good goal to have. However, I doubt there is any real difference between getting demoralized and swept than missing it entirely.

[Def Swami]

Not sure making the playoffs at 38 wins means anything. I share nearly the same sentiment as Zach Lowe, but I'm already on the "blow the whole damned thing up" bandwagon, and have a feeling that will be the case by the trade deadline. This team isn't good and lacks any star potential to propel them to relevancy. At its core, it's the same team with the same issues it has had since Dwight Howard was traded; no elite players, a point guard who can't shoot, and centers who can't be on the floor for one reason or another. They were a bad team after the trade deadline last season due to porous defense and a terrible bench. They made an attempt to fix the bench, but I doubt it makes a big difference in the win column. Someone would have to "pop" as Lowe says for us to have any real hope. But we've been waiting for that pop for awhile now. Hammond and Weltman will take this season to figure out what we've already known.

Just curious, by "blow the whole thing up" do you mean trade our assets (meager as they are) for peanuts to then win only around 15 games and try for a top 3 pick? Making sure we don't trade future picks will be key so I don't see how we shed real dead weight like Biz and DJ, so we only trade AG, Elf, Vuc, Ross, Fournier, Simmons etc. That leaves us at least 3-4 more years with no playoffs. Real question: do you think this franchise can survive a 9-10 year playoff drought in this market? Or will we be looking at the championship contender Seattle Magic?

Not necessarily bottom out. But at a certain point, the Magic have to figure out who on this team is worth building around, especially now that 2 of the pillars of the current roster are up for extensions; they're about to be up against the cap with a lot of mediocre players. I agree that Fournier, Ross, and Simmons are a decent set of wing players, but if we need to move one to finally fix glaring weaknesses at point guard or center, then so be it. I'm willing to take a step backward if it means a step forward long term. Besides Isaac and maybe Gordon, I think every other player is expendable. The Magic need to consolidate some of these players to upgrade to a more elite talent or asset.

To your latter point, I agree that the Magic wouldn't be able to survive at 10 year playoff drought. But I'm just as pessimistic about their ability to maintain as a perennial 38 win team in this market. It's one thing to be a 38 win team with potential to grow. It's another to be a 38 win team as your ceiling, which is what I fear the Magic are heading toward. Either they nail some trades, Isaac turns into superman, or they get lucky in the draft. Somehow they have to turn this collection of assets into potential. It seems crude and simplistic, but this whole thing is moot until they can acquire all-star talent.