The Jabari Discussion Thread - Back 2/2

[ReginaldDwight]

Jabari, great what Embiid got, but we'll continue the contract discussions on July 1, 2018.

Dont see how you offer a contract on a hurt player, really no other option but to take this to RFA.

I think we're talking about the possibility that he's back in Feb and then looks good for a couple of months, what do you do then.

(unless there's some other deadline I didn't know about?)

Well you can match any teams offer in the offseason so really no reason to not get to that point other then Bari and his agent would rather reup now. Jabari is hitting the court with major pressure, but its part of being a pro he needs to come in and look like Jabari right away for some team to offer him a major deal.

[midranger]

Outside of team Jabari being willing to take a steep discount as a trade for risk, there is zero reason for the Bucks to sign a contract this year rather than waiting for RFA.

This is the case for pretty much every rookie contract player who is not an obvious max candidate. But for a guy with this injury history? My God. It would be insane to sign him now (again, absent a very steep discount).

Also, I think the chance of Jabari playing on the QO is roughly zero percent. If his agent advised him to do that, it would be complete malpractice.

[Pachinko_]

Dont see how you offer a contract on a hurt player, really no other option but to take this to RFA.

I think we're talking about the possibility that he's back in Feb and then looks good for a couple of months, what do you do then.

(unless there's some other deadline I didn't know about?)

Well you can match any teams offer in the offseason so really no reason to not get to that point other then Bari and his agent would rather reup now. Jabari is hitting the court with major pressure, but its part of being a pro he needs to come in and look like Jabari right away for some team to offer him a major deal.

I bet he will. We're talking 4 months from now and he's already dunking and apparently in great physical form.
Jabari is really good at what he does (which is basically glorified pick up ball LOL), he just struggles a little bit with team concepts. But if you need that sort of thing, and most teams do, it's great to have. The question is if he blows that knee again.

[JEIS]

I think Embiid's contract should lay the groundwork for a Jabari's deal. Give him the money He wants. Clause it like the team wants to protect themselves from long term injury concerns. Get him for the 5 years.... In RFA you could have a team with a ton of cap willing to take a risk without clauses we might be in the same situation, The contract may be a bit cheaper, but still likely not worth the risk w/o injury clauses.

[Chapter29]

So why did the sixers just extend Embiid? Why did they take that risk? The same risk that we would take extending Parker? Did they put enough clauses in his contract to reduce the risk? Everyone says we are plain dumb to do this....are the sixers just as dumb or is Embiid that much better than Parker thus worth the risk?

Very odd that they did that and certainly starts to set precedence.

I don't know. For me I don't extend either and force RFA, but then again we will just outbid ourselves on the night of FA and give Parker a max deal anyways....so there is that.

[Baddy Chuck]

Everyone says we are plain dumb to do this....are the sixers just as dumb or is Embiid that much better than Parker thus worth the risk?

Little bit of both. Sixers are pretty dumb and Embiid is much better than Jabari.

[pifhluk23]

Embiid has Olajuwon + type potential. Parker is nowhere near that. Jabari mehhhh what's his best case scenario? Carmelo? Not that that is bad but I just don't see Jabari as a #1 on a championship team.

[Lippo]

So 5yr/125m paid on a per game basis.
82 games
5 year
410 games
305,000 per game
adjusted somehow for preseason and playoff games, etc..
so if he misses 50% of the games over the next 5 years he ends up with around a Henson type salary.
Not sure how that would affect the cap, unless the NBA develops some carryover or avg cap #.

[imithanos]

As much as I like Jabari, he is a tier below Giannis and I expect (with the Bucks FO I should have used the word hope) to be paid accordingly. He isn't our Embiid. And that is before his 2nd injury.

Now I would offer him less than $15m for sure and probably only the first 2 years guaranteed.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

As much as I like Jabari, he is a tier below Giannis and I expect (with the Bucks FO I should have used the word hope) to be paid accordingly. He isn't our Embiid. And that is before his 2nd injury.

Now I would offer him less than $15m for sure and probably only the first 2 years guaranteed.

I don't understand these arguments. He's 10x the player Plumlee is so Jabari should get max out? Giannis signing at $25m has no correlation to any contract we should offer any other player. None.


I offer Jabari the max* with it being non-guaranteed after year 2 if he doesn't hit 50% of games in any season**. If he says, no man, I can't take that risk of getting injured. You respond, "Glad you can see it our way. Let's talk again in July with no hurt feelings."

*Jabari healthy might be overpaid at the max, but dude can get buckets and entering his prime. I don't think the contract will kill us and worth the risk to have 2A/B with Giannis and Middleton.
**No idea if this is allowed in the CBA

[Lippo]

Can you have team options and player options in the same year? Teams option gets 1st dibbs
Year 1 = 15 mil
Year 2 = Team = 20mil , Player = 10mil
Year 3 = Team = 25mil , Player = 10mil
Year 4 = Team = 30mil , Player = 10mil
Year 5 = Team = 30mil , Player = 10mil

That way JP is guaranteed at least 55m
If he turns out to be a superstar he gets 5/120, just less than GA.

[yannisk]

Parker's an effortlessly efficient 20 ppg scorer with some playmaking ability who doesn't stop the ball. I don't think players that young and that good at what they do grow on trees.

The question with Parker that I've always come back to since his first injury is this: what's the alternative?

The alternative is to give the money to another's team's 'Middleton'. If you consider necessary having an effortlessly efficient 20 ppg scorer, give another 3m and resign Beasley

[MickeyDavis]

I wish we had a full year of Giannis/Parker/Mids/Brogdon before having to make a decision that will impact this franchise for several years.

[TroyD92]

Parker's an effortlessly efficient 20 ppg scorer with some playmaking ability who doesn't stop the ball. I don't think players that young and that good at what they do grow on trees.

The question with Parker that I've always come back to since his first injury is this: what's the alternative?

The alternative is to give the money to another's team's 'Middleton'. If you consider necessary having an effortlessly efficient 20 ppg scorer, give another 3m and resign Beasley

Yeah another teams Middleton is going to get 20+

[Ron Swanson]

I don't think that you can get nearly as creative with NBA contracts as much as some of you guys think. We're seeing it with the Embiid deal. The base money ($148 mil) is still all guaranteed, regardless of the extra incentives.

The players' union didn't fight tooth and nail all those years for fully guaranteed contracts just to have teams write-up insurance clauses protecting them from money lost due to injury. Maybe they could have stuck a team option on Year 5, but beyond that, you're incredibly limited by the CBA as to how you can structure these max deals.

[MickeyDavis]

Isn't there some kind of injured player clause or something so that if his career ended before the contract was up there would be cap relief? That's all I'm concerned about, an injured (again) Jabari chewing up huge cap space. I don't care about the actual dollars. LED have plenty of money.

[ReasonablySober]

The Marks article yesterday sure made it seem like there were a lot of avenues to get creative with a Parker deal.

[Ron Swanson]

Isn't there some kind of injured player clause or something so that if his career ended before the contract was up there would be cap relief? That's all I'm concerned about, an injured (again) Jabari chewing up huge cap space. I don't care about the actual dollars. LED have plenty of money.

I would think so. See: Chris Bosh situation. But I think that people are getting confused when they assume that there's some kind of way to insure the contract money if a player only plays a certain amount of games/minutes. Embiid could theoretically play 15 games every other season and still be getting paid the full amount until 2023. You would have an insane amount of hurdles to jump through in order to essentially force Embiid to "medically retire" to get that contract nullified.

[imithanos]

As much as I like Jabari, he is a tier below Giannis and I expect (with the Bucks FO I should have used the word hope) to be paid accordingly. He isn't our Embiid. And that is before his 2nd injury.

Now I would offer him less than $15m for sure and probably only the first 2 years guaranteed.

I don't understand these arguments. He's 10x the player Plumlee is so Jabari should get max out? Giannis signing at $25m has no correlation to any contract we should offer any other player. None.

Of course I will compare any future FA signing or resigning with Giannis' contract. Cause otherwise they will be awful deals and a(nother) sign our FO can't negotiate.
If Jabari was healthy he would ask for Giannis' money and the Bucks would have given it, even if he wouldn't contribute the same as Giannis. He would have the upper hand, cause a team that is looking for a scorer would offer him a max contract and he would push the Bucks for that money.
But NOW he will be coming from a second serious injury. The Bucks have the upper hand and it's up to them to decide.

As I said, I love Jabari, but if he wants more than 15m, I would wait the Bulls to make him an offer and let him go. From one point it's just business.

[midranger]

Everyone says we are plain dumb to do this....are the sixers just as dumb or is Embiid that much better than Parker thus worth the risk?

Little bit of both. Sixers are pretty dumb and Embiid is much better than Jabari.

Pretty much. A healthy Embiid could be the best player in the world. A healthy Jabari could be Carmelo Anthony. Good player but far from transcendent. And he is coming off a pretty much unprescendented injury situation with literally zero successful recoveries in the league.