Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 1

[Phystic]

Payton isn't a bad option but he reminds me of Rondo a bit with his game.

Is that a bad thing? I mean Rondo was a:

NBA champion (2008)
4× NBA All-Star (2010–2013)
All-NBA Third Team (2012)
2× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2010, 2011)
2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2009, 2012)
3× NBA assists leader (2012, 2013, 2016)
NBA steals leader (2010)

Rondo was/is a pure PG. Payton is the same way. The issue is (Once again) people dont want a "Scoring PG", yet when thry talk about these "Pure PG's" they knock on the fact that they cant score. Its very rare that you can get a PG that fits both roles, and when you do find one the team that he's on isnt going to trade him because being both a "Pure PG" that can make his own shots (ala a Scoring PG), well thats usually what all-star PG's are, and teams dont like to trade all-stars for next to nothing.

No it's not a bad thing. I meant moreso, no offensive game to speak of. I wouldn't say it's that rare to have a player that can distribute adequately as well as hit an open jumpshot at a decent percentage.

But admittedly, I thought his shooting percentages were much worse than they are. I may have been thinking of Mudiay's percentages. Payton still has no 3pt shot, but that's not a requirement. If he can hid jumpers from 15-18ft then I'd say he's a perfect fit for us. He can pass the ball and defend which would be the biggest two things on our team I think.

[Kerrsed]

Heres the deal with The Murrays. Both teams (Nuggets and Spurs) would benefit from obtaining Bledsoe. They are both teams that are playoff contenders. Spurs always are, and make smart moves to ensure that they are always in the postseason (They have made the playoffs in 27 of the last 28 seasons, minus the ONE SEASON they tanked for Duncan). Nuggets made more "Win-now" moves this offseason than rebuild moves. Now both teams are lacking in the PG department.

We all know that Parker is a shell of his former self, and Patty Mills isnt one of the names that comes to mind when talking about good starting PG's. Murray is still very young and talented, but also still very raw.

In Denver your looking at Mudiay/Nelson/Murray. Mudiay has been very underwhelming, Nelson's a year away from retirement and joining the AARP, and Murray has shown he has potential, but most of it looks rather SG-ish rather than a floor general. With them re-signing Harris to a huge deal, you know Murray wont be getting many minutes at the SG spot except in small spurts.

In San Antonio, you'd see a starting 5 of Bledsoe/Green/Leonard/Aldridge/Gasol. Pretty damn solid, right? They could also end up throwing Gay in there too and have him start at SG. Throw in Chandler who could provide some solid minutes behind Gasol and playing in a system that is tailor made for his style of game.

In Denver the starting 5 of Bledsoe/Harris/Chandler/Milsap/Jokic would also be pretty damn solid and an obvious upgrade to what they are running now. Sure Murray could maybe eventually be better than Bledsoe (Who really knows?), but with the addition of Millsap, do they have the time to wait and see if he reaches that potential? I mean Mudiay was rated as a higher potential player coming into the league, and yet here they are spending their 3rd year with him as the starting PG, looking more and more like a bit of a bust.

Now obtaining one of the Murrays could be difficult but for separate reasons. For San Antonio, its the money. I dont think they would take issue with trading him for Bledsoe, but to make the trade work financially could prove to be difficult. It would take something like Murray and Parker for Bledsoe to make it work. Murrays $1.3M contract would have to be paired with a higher end contract.

And for Denver the issue is Murrays potential. He has it, theres no doubt about it, but how long will it take for him to reach it, and will Denver still be in a place to compete. He too also makes a small amount compared to Bledsoe, but Denver also has easier players they would be willing to move (Compared to the Spurs).

[Kerrsed]

No it's not a bad thing. I meant moreso, no offensive game to speak of. I wouldn't say it's that rare to have a player that can distribute adequately as well as hit an open jumpshot at a decent percentage.

But admittedly, I thought his shooting percentages were much worse than they are. I may have been thinking of Mudiay's percentages. Payton still has no 3pt shot, but that's not a requirement. If he can hid jumpers from 15-18ft then I'd say he's a perfect fit for us. He can pass the ball and defend which would be the biggest two things on our team I think.

Yeah, i think Payton might be the best we could get from that list.

Interesting enough he is on an expiring contract (Lowering his value in trade), but could easily be paired up with another player (Vucevic) that Orlando is reportedly looking at trading to make it work financially. And obtaining Vuc might be able to help us with our C issues as well. Hmmmmm...... time for some research!

[Stark]

I would love to have Jamal Murray for Bledsoe but i doubt Nuggets would do that trade. I mean yeah they sign Millsap and he is a win-now player but he is a perfect fit with their team and their best player. They still have a good young core with one solid future superstar (Jokic, Harris, Murray, Hernangomez etc.) Trading for Bledsoe would be unnecessary risk for them, they are already a play-off team and that's enough for them, getting Bledsoe is not going to make them champions. Also as long as they have Jokic they don't need a true-solid pg, i mean everyone is a scoring guard these days at least they have this Jokic guys who is "pretty" good passer who can initiate offence like a pg.

Dejounte Murray. Meh. I don't like him as prospect and why are we helping Spurs anyway.

I like Payton but i wouldn't want him on my team. Bledsoe is more valuable than that. Payton is expiring, to keep him we might have to overpay a little bit and giving a contract to a pg who can't shoot is not a good idea. Adding Vuc might be interesting, but still does it really worth trading our best trade chip for him?

We should have traded for DSJ or Dearon Fox on draft night but that train is already gone. We don't have to hurry, no more tanking moves, We are already a bad team with or without Bledsoe, trading Bledsoe for risky young players is not going to make us better in the future. We should trade for high risk high potential guys but we should do this without giving our best players in return.

[Qwigglez]

We are stuck with Bledsoe. That's McD's first trade so basically he's untouchable. We should have just traded Bledsoe and whatever else it would have taken to get Kyrie. I bet we would have if we had gotten a guarantee that Kyrie would have stayed with us.

[Saberestar]

Jamal Murray is untouchable. Like Booker for us after his rookie season.

He is gonna start for them at PG and I think that he is gonna be a terrific player. I hate that we could have selected him at #4 last season.....

[Mulhollanddrive]

I wouldn't do either Murray or Payton.

They are going to be paid over $10m and not fill a role as either All-Star or value role player.

I think we're past just trying to just win individual deals and need them to make sense in building a championship.

Even if we let Bledsoe walk you open your choice to a stronger pool of players in free agency rather than players discarded by who knows them best.

[King4Day]

After seeing that deal Embiid got, McDonough better be ready to pay Booker the same amount. No way he'll take less. Same with Porzingas for NY.

[bwgood77]

Heres the deal with The Murrays. Both teams (Nuggets and Spurs) would benefit from obtaining Bledsoe. They are both teams that are playoff contenders. Spurs always are, and make smart moves to ensure that they are always in the postseason (They have made the playoffs in 27 of the last 28 seasons, minus the ONE SEASON they tanked for Duncan). Nuggets made more "Win-now" moves this offseason than rebuild moves. Now both teams are lacking in the PG department.

We all know that Parker is a shell of his former self, and Patty Mills isnt one of the names that comes to mind when talking about good starting PG's. Murray is still very young and talented, but also still very raw.

In Denver your looking at Mudiay/Nelson/Murray. Mudiay has been very underwhelming, Nelson's a year away from retirement and joining the AARP, and Murray has shown he has potential, but most of it looks rather SG-ish rather than a floor general. With them re-signing Harris to a huge deal, you know Murray wont be getting many minutes at the SG spot except in small spurts.

In San Antonio, you'd see a starting 5 of Bledsoe/Green/Leonard/Aldridge/Gasol. Pretty damn solid, right? They could also end up throwing Gay in there too and have him start at SG. Throw in Chandler who could provide some solid minutes behind Gasol and playing in a system that is tailor made for his style of game.

In Denver the starting 5 of Bledsoe/Harris/Chandler/Milsap/Jokic would also be pretty damn solid and an obvious upgrade to what they are running now. Sure Murray could maybe eventually be better than Bledsoe (Who really knows?), but with the addition of Millsap, do they have the time to wait and see if he reaches that potential? I mean Mudiay was rated as a higher potential player coming into the league, and yet here they are spending their 3rd year with him as the starting PG, looking more and more like a bit of a bust.

Now obtaining one of the Murrays could be difficult but for separate reasons. For San Antonio, its the money. I dont think they would take issue with trading him for Bledsoe, but to make the trade work financially could prove to be difficult. It would take something like Murray and Parker for Bledsoe to make it work. Murrays $1.3M contract would have to be paired with a higher end contract.

And for Denver the issue is Murrays potential. He has it, theres no doubt about it, but how long will it take for him to reach it, and will Denver still be in a place to compete. He too also makes a small amount compared to Bledsoe, but Denver also has easier players they would be willing to move (Compared to the Spurs).

Dejounte Murray is already looking good. They don't have the cap space to take on Bledsoe. I don't imagine Bledsoe is the type of PG for Pop either. He has been able to mold Murray from day one.

[jredsaz]

https://www.fanragsports.com/devin-bookers-3rd-season-will-show-how-valid-hype-train-is/amp/

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[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Our best PG so far in preseason has been Mike James. Ulis has been our worst.

I've liked what I've seen from TJ, Chriss and Bender. I love that JJ's corner 3s don't touch iron, and I'm not nearly as concerned about the pull up 2s that don't touch iron.

Len, obviously, has played at a higher level.

DJJ has been the biggest disappointment. Can Daniels guard point guards at all?

... On another note, if we're looking at young PGs, how about Rozier or Smart as more realistic options? Boston has a glut at the 1. I don't know what we could offer them, though, given that they would not be able to re-sign Alex even if he did consent to be traded there.

I can't see any team being a good landing spot for Bledsoe other than the LA Clippers and maybe the Bucks. Hard to see how this doesn't just turn into another season of inactivity on the trade front.

[Saberestar]

Our best PG so far in preseason has been Mike James. Ulis has been our worst.

I've liked what I've seen from TJ, Chriss and Bender. I love that JJ's corner 3s don't touch iron, and I'm not nearly as concerned about the pull up 2s that don't touch iron.

Len, obviously, has played at a higher level.

DJJ has been the biggest disappointment. Can Daniels guard point guards at all?

... On another note, if we're looking at young PGs, how about Rozier or Smart as more realistic options? Boston has a glut at the 1. I don't know what we could offer them, though, given that they would not be able to re-sign Alex even if he did consent to be traded there.

I can't see any team being a good landing spot for Bledsoe other than the LA Clippers and maybe the Bucks. Hard to see how this doesn't just turn into another season of inactivity on the trade front.

I could not watch the last preseason game, but on the other two Chriss and Bender played poor basketball IMO.

They look like they are two years away from being two years away.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Our best PG so far in preseason has been Mike James. Ulis has been our worst.

I've liked what I've seen from TJ, Chriss and Bender. I love that JJ's corner 3s don't touch iron, and I'm not nearly as concerned about the pull up 2s that don't touch iron.

Len, obviously, has played at a higher level.

DJJ has been the biggest disappointment. Can Daniels guard point guards at all?

... On another note, if we're looking at young PGs, how about Rozier or Smart as more realistic options? Boston has a glut at the 1. I don't know what we could offer them, though, given that they would not be able to re-sign Alex even if he did consent to be traded there.

I can't see any team being a good landing spot for Bledsoe other than the LA Clippers and maybe the Bucks. Hard to see how this doesn't just turn into another season of inactivity on the trade front.

I could not watch the last preseason game, but on the other two Chriss and Bender played poor basketball IMO.

They look like they are two years away from being two years away.

I don't care how far away they look as long as it's clear there's somewhere to go. Look at Alex. I was ready to write him an epitaph in April.

Either one of those two starts hitting threes at a consistent, respectable clip and we'll be pretty tough...

... in about 4 years.

[bigfoot]

What is frightening to me is the excuse of youth, the coaches, the players, the media, and the fans are using. That's all fine and dandy until you think about adding five more picks next year with two 1st rounders and three second rounders. There are rookies that come in and make a significant impact in the league right away. Len, Bender, Chriss just haven't shown that. Damn I hope Jackson pans out and has a legit shot as a ROY candidate. We won't be winning until some of these draft picks make a big impact in their rookie season.

[bwgood77]

What is frightening to me is the excuse of youth, the coaches, the players, the media, and the fans are using. That's all fine and dandy until you think about adding five more picks next year with two 1st rounders and three second rounders. There are rookies that come in and make a significant impact in the league right away. Len, Bender, Chriss just haven't shown that. Damn I hope Jackson pans out and has a legit shot as a ROY candidate. We won't be winning until some of these draft picks make a big impact in their rookie season.

What we need to start doing outside of maybe our top pick, is draft some of the guys in the draft that have more experience, that can come in and likely contribute more right away like with Curry, Thompson, McCollum, Brogdon, etc.

Hopefully Bender just needs more time on the court, since he barely got any last year, and then when they went young he got injured. Bender looks fairly decent on defense but way too tentative and passive on offense. It's almost like he's a perfectionist that is overthinking it and too afraid to fail so he doesn't shoot and is rarely aggressive offensively unless he really gets going which only happened a couple games in summer league.

With Chriss, he made quite a bit of improvement offensively last year, but he's seemed to have hit a wall or regressed offensively and still looks lost on defense.

[bwgood77]

Since we don't have a Connie Hawkins thread, I thought I'd throw this here. It's a good read I just came across..

To those around the game, Hawkins was a player ahead of his time, a blend of flair and finesse later exemplified by the likes of Julius Erving and Michael Jordan. A rangy forward who was officially listed as 6-feet-8, Hawkins possessed hands that could effortlessly palm a basketball and make the large orange sphere look no bigger than a grapefruit. The traits that defined his game helped turn what was a largely ground-based sport into the acrobatic, high-flying one so many know it as today. Raised in Brooklyn’s Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood, Hawkins became one of several in a vaunted line of New York City playground legends, dazzling those who saw him play and creating a budding aura around himself.

He signed with the University of Iowa, but never got the chance to play after being linked to a point-shaving scandal in 1961. Though he was never formally charged with a crime and never shaved points at the college level – freshmen, at that time, were ineligible to play on a school’s varsity team – Hawkins knew the two New York-based men, Jack Molinas and Joe Hacken, who had devised the scheme. As part of the investigation, he was held by detectives in a hotel room for 14 days, unable to change his clothes and prohibited from being set free until he told them what they believed to be the truth. Despite never being arrested or indicted, and having long maintained his innocence, Hawkins was expelled from Iowa and was unable to land at another college. With the stench of the scandal still following him, he went undrafted by the NBA before the league formally barred him in 1966.

Years before the NBA’s ban, Hawkins played one season for the Pittsburgh Rens of the American Basketball League, winning the most valuable player award at age 19 before the league folded. After a three-year stint performing with the famed Harlem Globetrotters, he joined the Pittsburgh Pipers of the newly formed American Basketball Association in 1967. That season, Hawkins led the ABA in scoring at 26.8 points per game, capturing the league’s regular season and playoff MVP awards. Perhaps most impressively, he led the Pipers to an ABA title while playing the final two games of the seven-game championship series on a torn medial collateral ligament in his right knee.

.....

Hawkins made an immediate impact in the NBA, averaging 24.6 points per game in his first season with the Suns and earning all-star honors in each of his first four seasons in the league. Having entered the NBA at age 27, though, the collective wear of years in the ABA and more than 200 games a year as a Globetrotter began to show. Injuries started to plague him, limiting his on-court minutes and production, and by 1976, his professional career was over. Because he was denied the chance to play in the NBA for much of his 20s, the world was denied the opportunity to see perhaps the best version of one of the game’s all-time greats at the highest level of the sport.

For more

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/2017/10/07/Connie-Hawkins-basketball-dies-Pittsburgh-Pipers-Phoenix-Suns/stories/201710070114

[Jdiddy701]

Just got done hearing Sirius XM NBA preview of the Phoenix Suns with Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine. It was a great listen, they were in Phoenix and interviewed Booker, Bledsoe, Watson and Jackson.

My biggest takeaway from it was Watson saying Jackson might be starting when season starts.

Bledsoe
Booker
Jackson
Chriss
Chandler

That's my guess! Warren coming off the bench is deadly.


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[Kerrsed]

Just got done hearing Sirius XM NBA preview of the Phoenix Suns with Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine. It was a great listen, they were in Phoenix and interviewed Booker, Bledsoe, Watson and Jackson.

My biggest takeaway from it was Watson saying Jackson might be starting when season starts.

Bledsoe
Booker
Jackson
Chriss
Chandler

That's my guess! Warren coming off the bench is deadly.


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Yeah, its weird who would have guessed that? I mean its not like there were posters here that were adamant just post draft that JJ would be our starter. If only someone could have seen this coming.

[Wilber85]

Here is my take. You guys are naming PG's who will do nothing for us in the rebuild! Let's play the year out and hope we can get some positive value for Bledsoe! We need him to have a good year so we can trade him.

Also, I see a lot of hate with James. He is a score first PG lol. What is wrong with that? He looks like our best PG in preseason. I remember when we had IT on the team, and 90% of you complained. He was a 6th man doing what he was told to do and score. Nothing will make you guys happy. Enjoy the rebuild, enjoy the youth, and hope our team develops.

I am positive that our future will be built around these two guaranteed.

Josh Jackson
Booker

I like Chriss, Bender, and Warren but they aren't really showing more than role players at the moment. I think this will be Warren's year to show his true skills. Chriss and Bender need to improve.

I am excited to watch this team grow!

[SideSwipe]

Just got done hearing Sirius XM NBA preview of the Phoenix Suns with Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine. It was a great listen, they were in Phoenix and interviewed Booker, Bledsoe, Watson and Jackson.

My biggest takeaway from it was Watson saying Jackson might be starting when season starts.

Bledsoe
Booker
Jackson
Chriss
Chandler

That's my guess! Warren coming off the bench is deadly.


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That may be, but I'm not sure I'm in favor of it. I really want to see Jackson next to Warren and Booker. I would bring Jackson in at 6 mins when Bledsoe goes to the bench. That's a lineup that once it matures will give absolute fits to other teams defenses. Too much length and if Jacksons shooting continues, too much scoring to deal with.