The Legend of Joel Embiid

[eyeatoma]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20985023/joel-embiid-extension-protects-philadelphia-76ers-case-contractually-specific-catastrophic-injury

It protects against catastrophic injuries to his feet and back. Not knees.

Which is fine... He had previous injuries in those areas... The meniscus is minor...

[76ciology]

Knee is a tough body part to protect doing so would have put the team on an unfair advantage

[Simmons25]

Well, it is convenient, but it is just your opinion. He wasn't cleared for 5 on 5 until last week, and he still hadn't signed the deal then.

Yep, it is my opinion. I've been around too long to believe in coincidences like that. Especially if Eskin said he had a source and the exact scenario came to be. There's nothing wrong with Embiid doing that, however.

Eskin's report was that he wasn't going to play 5 on 5 though, which he DID do last night. I don't care if Embiid used the leverage. I just don't want Eskin to be vindicated. LOL

Have to agree. If they were really holding out because of the contract Embiid wouldn't have even been playing 5 on 5 in training.

Eskin just guessed to make himself look good because the odds were that high that the deal would be done around the time the 76ers were going to start being serious in the pre-season.

Hell even I guessed there would be a deal any day now after hearing Brett Brown say a few days ago that they'd be focus on these last 2 matches using the rotation they will use during the season... and that is was likely Embiid was going to be playing some minutes in those.

[Baller1234a]

I got a question on the contract
Let’s say he gets a season ending injury (back)
So to get your savings you would have to waive him?
Which takes out the 4 years ?
So either it has to be a career ending or has to be in the last year of the contract?

[CKB]

I got a question on the contract
Let’s say he gets a season ending injury (back)
So to get your savings you would have to waive him?
Which takes out the 4 years ?
So either it has to be a career ending or has to be in the last year of the contract?

Quoting Woj "If Embiid were to meet that criteria and the 76ers released him, he would receive $84.2 million of his full contract after the 18-19 season, $98.2 million after 19-20, $113.3 million after 20-21 and $129.4 million after 21-22." Embiid will receive at least $84.2 million of his $146.5 million contract if waived after 18-19 season. To get any money savings, Embiid must have an injury on the feet or back while playing less than 57 regular-season games + less than 1,650 minutes ; the team will have option to waive him because of it and save some money.

"If Embiid plays a minimum of 1,650 regular-season minutes in three consecutive years during the extension, or three out of four including the 2017-18 season, those benchmarks would eliminate the possibility of a reduction in the contract." The 76ers will not have any money saving options in this instance. No matter when he is waived, he will receive his full $146.5 million contract.

[Wilfried]

I got a question on the contract
Let’s say he gets a season ending injury (back)
So to get your savings you would have to waive him?
Which takes out the 4 years ?
So either it has to be a career ending or has to be in the last year of the contract?

Quoting Woj "If Embiid were to meet that criteria and the 76ers released him, he would receive $84.2 million of his full contract after the 18-19 season, $98.2 million after 19-20, $113.3 million after 20-21 and $129.4 million after 21-22." Embiid will receive at least $84.2 million of his $146.5 million contract if waived after 18-19 season. To get any money savings, Embiid must have an injury on the feet or back while playing less than 57 regular-season games + less than 1,650 minutes ; the team will have option to waive him because of it and save some money.

"If Embiid plays a minimum of 1,650 regular-season minutes in three consecutive years during the extension, or three out of four including the 2017-18 season, those benchmarks would eliminate the possibility of a reduction in the contract." The 76ers will not have any money saving options in this instance. No matter when he is waived, he will receive his full $146.5 million contract.

Fact that he will force himself to play at least a certain amount of minutes, won't that make him play through some injuries which would be best to let heal instead?

[sixerswillrule]

If he has a healthy season and we waited until next summer, we would've matched a 4 year max offer from another team. But now say he has a healthy season, but turns into Oden after that and we waive him in 2020, there isn't a big difference between the money we're on the hook for and the money we would've been on the hook for had we waited and matched. Was keeping him happy now instead of waiting worth the risk of him getting hurt again this season and being stuck with the 84 million tab?

[APettyJ]

Sixers match him next year and then he gets hurt the following year, now all of the money is on the books. Even more, he could just take QO so he could become an UFA in 2020, and much like jazz lost Heyward after he felt slighted Sixers could lose him. Really nothing gained by pinching pennies concerning Embiid.

[sixerswillrule]

Sixers match him next year and then he gets hurt the following year, now all of the money is on the books. Even more, he could just take QO so he could become an UFA in 2020, and much like jazz lost Heyward after he felt slighted Sixers could lose him. Really nothing gained by pinching pennies concerning Embiid.

If we match and he gets hurt the following year, 82 million would be on the books (not including that season's salary) compared to 59 million with the current deal. We wouldn't waive him after a hurt 18/19 season though if he had a healthy 17/18. It would take at least 2 years of bad health. So really it's 56 million on the books after 19/20 if we had matched, vs. 45 million on the books after 19/20 if we waive him in 2020. Not a huge difference.

But if gets hurt in November 2017, on the books for 0 million vs. 84 million is a huge difference. I wouldn't call that pinching pennies.

[theo42]

So do you think with this contract we take off the minute and back to back restrictions? I don't know how you can pay him this and not.

[APettyJ]

Sixers match him next year and then he gets hurt the following year, now all of the money is on the books. Even more, he could just take QO so he could become an UFA in 2020, and much like jazz lost Heyward after he felt slighted Sixers could lose him. Really nothing gained by pinching pennies concerning Embiid.

If we match and he gets hurt the following year, 82 million would be on the books (not including that season's salary) compared to 59 million with the current deal. We wouldn't waive him after a hurt 18/19 season though if he had a healthy 17/18. It would take at least 2 years of bad health. So really it's 56 million on the books after 19/20 if we had matched, vs. 45 million on the books after 19/20 if we waive him in 2020. Not a huge difference.

But if gets hurt in November 2017, on the books for 0 million vs. 84 million is a huge difference. I wouldn't call that pinching pennies.

Depends on how severe the injury is in 18/19 or 19/20. It could be quite apparent he isn't coming back. Now his money would be on the books until 22/23.

They could stretch the $84mil, and yes it would essentially be pennies.

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[mithrandir17]

The totals per scenario is not accurate but I am assuming this is what Embiid's contract looks like for every injury scenario.

Without Injury
1-25.30
2-27.32
3-29.51
4-31.87
5-34.42
Total-148.43

With Injury 1st Year
1-25.30
2-13.08
3-14.13
4-15.26
5-16.48
Total-84.24

With Injury 2nd Year
1-25.30
2-27.32
3-14.12
4-15.25
5-16.47
Total-98.48

With Injury 3rd Year
1-25.3
2-27.32
3-29.50
4-15.25
5-16.47
Total-113.86

With Injury 4th Year
1-25.30
2-27.32
3-29.51
4-31.87
5-16.48
Total-130.48

[Ericb5]

So do you think with this contract we take off the minute and back to back restrictions? I don't know how you can pay him this and not.

I think that they were destined to be taken off eventually anyway, but I personally would be surprised if they were taken off immediately.

The minutes restrictions were always about his foot anyway, which has now had another year to heal. Endurance wise he may not be able to play 30+ minutes right away anyway.

[APettyJ]

So do you think with this contract we take off the minute and back to back restrictions? I don't know how you can pay him this and not.

Who said he was going to be restricted on minutes or back-to-backs? Never saw the Sixers say that, just people speculating due to his KNEE injury that has nothing to do with the BACK or FOOT injuries.

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[sixerswillrule]

Sixers match him next year and then he gets hurt the following year, now all of the money is on the books. Even more, he could just take QO so he could become an UFA in 2020, and much like jazz lost Heyward after he felt slighted Sixers could lose him. Really nothing gained by pinching pennies concerning Embiid.

If we match and he gets hurt the following year, 82 million would be on the books (not including that season's salary) compared to 59 million with the current deal. We wouldn't waive him after a hurt 18/19 season though if he had a healthy 17/18. It would take at least 2 years of bad health. So really it's 56 million on the books after 19/20 if we had matched, vs. 45 million on the books after 19/20 if we waive him in 2020. Not a huge difference.

But if gets hurt in November 2017, on the books for 0 million vs. 84 million is a huge difference. I wouldn't call that pinching pennies.

Depends on how severe the injury is in 18/19 or 19/20. It could be quite apparent he isn't coming back. Now his money would be on the books until 22/23.

They could stretch the $84mil, and yes it would essentially be pennies.

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Well if 84 mil is not significant, then obviously a mere 10-20 mil (the difference in money on the books if we had waited and matched vs. the current situation) is extremely insignificant.

My point being if you want to argue we extended Embiid now rather than waiting until next summer to keep him happy, that's fine. But in terms of money there was no real benefit to extending him now, even with the protections.

[Sixerscan]

I got a question on the contract
Let’s say he gets a season ending injury (back)
So to get your savings you would have to waive him?
Which takes out the 4 years ?
So either it has to be a career ending or has to be in the last year of the contract?

Quoting Woj "If Embiid were to meet that criteria and the 76ers released him, he would receive $84.2 million of his full contract after the 18-19 season, $98.2 million after 19-20, $113.3 million after 20-21 and $129.4 million after 21-22." Embiid will receive at least $84.2 million of his $146.5 million contract if waived after 18-19 season. To get any money savings, Embiid must have an injury on the feet or back while playing less than 57 regular-season games + less than 1,650 minutes ; the team will have option to waive him because of it and save some money.

"If Embiid plays a minimum of 1,650 regular-season minutes in three consecutive years during the extension, or three out of four including the 2017-18 season, those benchmarks would eliminate the possibility of a reduction in the contract." The 76ers will not have any money saving options in this instance. No matter when he is waived, he will receive his full $146.5 million contract.

Fact that he will force himself to play at least a certain amount of minutes, won't that make him play through some injuries which would be best to let heal instead?

No because in order to cut him he would also have to suffer a major injury to his feet or back. Like if he just plays 55 games but doesn't break his foot or back they can't cut him.

[theo42]

So do you think with this contract we take off the minute and back to back restrictions? I don't know how you can pay him this and not.

Who said he was going to be restricted on minutes or back-to-backs? Never saw the Sixers say that, just people speculating due to his KNEE injury that has nothing to do with the BACK or FOOT injuries.

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No one, i just want to make sure that isn't the case.

[Ericb5]

So do you think with this contract we take off the minute and back to back restrictions? I don't know how you can pay him this and not.

Who said he was going to be restricted on minutes or back-to-backs? Never saw the Sixers say that, just people speculating due to his KNEE injury that has nothing to do with the BACK or FOOT injuries.

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No one, i just want to make sure that isn't the case.

Well the reason to suspect that he might be still on a restriction is that he was still on one when he last played a game, and the Sixers have been non committal on the question.

If they DO start him out on a restriction I would hope and expect that it will be short lived. For the back to back games I'm assuming that he will rest in many of them, or rather that most of his scheduled rest days will be on back to back games.

[Sixerscan]

Sixers match him next year and then he gets hurt the following year, now all of the money is on the books. Even more, he could just take QO so he could become an UFA in 2020, and much like jazz lost Heyward after he felt slighted Sixers could lose him. Really nothing gained by pinching pennies concerning Embiid.

If we match and he gets hurt the following year, 82 million would be on the books (not including that season's salary) compared to 59 million with the current deal. We wouldn't waive him after a hurt 18/19 season though if he had a healthy 17/18. It would take at least 2 years of bad health. So really it's 56 million on the books after 19/20 if we had matched, vs. 45 million on the books after 19/20 if we waive him in 2020. Not a huge difference.

But if gets hurt in November 2017, on the books for 0 million vs. 84 million is a huge difference. I wouldn't call that pinching pennies.

That 45 is spread over 3 years though, while the 56 is over 2. You can overcome $15 million in dead money a lot easier than $27 million. You can also stretch 3 years of dead money longer than 2 years. 6 years v. 4. Theres additional savings associated with that (both from a salary cap stand point and a time value of money stand point).

Further, this isn't just about saving money, you are also locking up potentially the best player in the NBA for 5 years. Whereas if you let him go to restricted free agency, he would probably get 3 years plus a player option for a 4th to try to bait us into not matching (which he would probably decline and enter unrestricted free agency if healthy).

So basically, you are saving money in the event that he suffers a career ending injury in the middle of his contract, and getting two more years of control of an All NBA talent in the event that he doesn't.

[sixerswillrule]

Sixers match him next year and then he gets hurt the following year, now all of the money is on the books. Even more, he could just take QO so he could become an UFA in 2020, and much like jazz lost Heyward after he felt slighted Sixers could lose him. Really nothing gained by pinching pennies concerning Embiid.

If we match and he gets hurt the following year, 82 million would be on the books (not including that season's salary) compared to 59 million with the current deal. We wouldn't waive him after a hurt 18/19 season though if he had a healthy 17/18. It would take at least 2 years of bad health. So really it's 56 million on the books after 19/20 if we had matched, vs. 45 million on the books after 19/20 if we waive him in 2020. Not a huge difference.

But if gets hurt in November 2017, on the books for 0 million vs. 84 million is a huge difference. I wouldn't call that pinching pennies.

That 45 is spread over 3 years though, while the 56 is over 2. You can overcome $15 million in dead money a lot easier than $27 million. You can also stretch 3 years of dead money longer than 2 years. 6 years v. 4. Theres additional savings associated with that (both from a salary cap stand point and a time value of money stand point).

Further, this isn't just about saving money, you are also locking up potentially the best player in the NBA for 5 years. Whereas if you let him go to restricted free agency, he would probably get 3 years plus a player option for a 4th to try to bait us into not matching (which he would probably decline and enter unrestricted free agency if healthy).

So basically, you are saving money in the event that he suffers a career ending injury in the middle of his contract, and getting two more years of control of an All NBA talent in the event that he doesn't.

Yeah, I never meant that the money savings in that scenario would be insignificant. 45 million over 3 years is better than 56 million over 2 years. But the potential loss of 84 million over 5 years for a player who can't get on the court, if Embiid has another injury riddled season in 17/18, instead of moving on which we would've done in the summer of 2018 had we waited, is at least as significant if not more significant than that potential savings.

Money wasn't a reason to do this deal. But I get that it was important to keep your potential superstar satisfied, and locking up him for longer is another good point.