The Jabari Discussion Thread - Back 2/2

[humanrefutation]

Well, my 2K team was able to trade Jabari and Monroe for Rudy Gobert. So, let's do that!

[sdn40]

Sure, but I guess my stance is under the assumption that when he comes back in 2018 he still looks like the Parker he was in 2017.

Yeah. There's the problem.

Jabari will still be a 20+ PPG scorer when hes on the court full time. I bet you thought there was no way he would score 20 a game last year

If only that were the most important argument - and even with that aside - you are minimalizing the 2nd ACL to the same knee

[buckboy]

He's a very good offensive player now. He could become elite.
He's a horrifying defender now. He could become passable/hideable.
He's a pretty bad rebounder. Seems likely to remain that, or improve towards average.
His health is a disaster. There's really no reason to think that'll change.

What's that worth? Not much in my opinion. Options, from worst to best:

-Extend him now/this season. This is actually what I expect, because Bucks.
-Trade him now. I actually wouldn't do this unless it was a very good offer.
-Wait for summer, offer QO, decide then.
-S & T this summer. This is what I'm hoping for. I'm hoping he comes back healthy (for his sake and ours) and a team that's over the cap just has to have him and makes us a very good offer. I just don't want the kind of money it'll likely require to keep him on our books for a ticking time bomb. This option, of course, requires a basketball expert. Thank God we have one.

[Nowak008]

Given the Blazers are probably about to give Nurkic a big deal, and with Swanigan looking like he does, could something be built around Jabari and Zach Collins?

Swanigan and Collins for some reason already have awesome chemistry together. It's almost like Portland targeted skilled high IQ basketball players.

[Ruzious]

Just trade him now. Jabari Parker is not a winning player. Let some other team pay inflated rates for a PPGZ empty stat scorer that is in danger of a career ending knee injury every single game.

I'm not sure how people confidentally say that when he's a 22 year old who's effectively played 2 NBA seasons and averaged an efficient 20 PPG last season. I think it's obvious that he's a dynamic player with a health issue.

[DingleJerry]

Given the Blazers are probably about to give Nurkic a big deal, and with Swanigan looking like he does, could something be built around Jabari and Zach Collins?

Swanigan and Collins for some reason already have awesome chemistry together. It's almost like Portland targeted skilled high IQ basketball players.

And why over the last what 30 years they've been a consistent winner in spite of some massive bad luck and injury problems hurting them. 2016 offseason was really weird by them, can't believe such a normally smart franchise made such dumb signings.

[Prince12]

Just trade him now. Jabari Parker is not a winning player. Let some other team pay inflated rates for a PPGZ empty stat scorer that is in danger of a career ending knee injury every single game.

I'm not sure how people confidentally say that when he's a 22 year old who's effectively played 2 NBA seasons and averaged an efficient 20 PPG last season. I think it's obvious that he's a dynamic player with a health issue.

Its ridiculous. For his age he's in elite company for what he was doing. Can you watch every game knowing you could be seconds away from disaster. Thats a sticking point for me but i want to see him return, i have no doubt he will look as good as he did before the second.

[PANDEMONEUM]

..............2017............2018..............2019............2020..............2021...........2020
GIANNIS -- $22,471,911 -- $24,157,304 -- $25,842,697 -- $27,528,088

MONROE -- $17,884,176 -- LET GO, RIGHT?

MIDDLET -- $14,100,000 -- $13,000,000 -- $20,000,000 - $20,000,000 - $20,000,000 - $20,000,000

SNELL ----- $9,821,429 -- $10,607,143 -- $11,392,857 -- $12,178,571(PO)

JABARI --- $6,782,392 -- $7,375,851(QO)


my concern about paying Jabari, is that it limits the team from signing any other quality FA.
if we guess that Middleton will opt out of his 2019 13$M, and get a new contract, at least 20$M,
G, MIDD, SNELL in 2019 will make 58$M of the guesstimated 115$M

luckily Mirza expires before 2019 season and Delly and Henson before 2020 season

IF we pay Jabari even in the teens, it stops us from signing a high quality FA
if Jabari gets injured or doesnt reach a high playing/production level
it stops the team from advancing and becoming better
and wastes years of Giannis

[Prince12]

Henson 2020...GODDDDDD

[midranger]

Sure, but I guess my stance is under the assumption that when he comes back in 2018 he still looks like the Parker he was in 2017.

Yeah. There's the problem.

Jabari will still be a 20+ PPG scorer when hes on the court full time. I bet you thought there was no way he would score 20 a game last year

Please list all the NBA players who scored 20+ PPG after tearing an ACL twice. Hell, after tearing 2 ACLs in either knee.

I'll do it for you below.




The list of players who had their career as a highly productive NBA player end with the second ACL tear is below.
Every player who ever tore 2 ACLs. Dejaun Blair is probably the biggest success story, and even he tore them in high school and they just gradually degenerated as his surrounding musculature matured and he somehow learned to play without ACLs.


Obviously, what happened in the past doesn't set anything in stone re: Jabari. But I don't think paying him huge money based on a literally unprecedented assumption is wise. It's more like insane.

[emunney]

I think Manning had three reconstructions and came back to win 6th man. But yeah, it's a sad list.

[Prince12]

It's going to become a far more common thing. Tearing two acls is unfortunate but not going to be career ruining. Unfortunately the risk of doing a third isn't going to go away.

[DingleJerry]

I think Manning had three reconstructions and came back to win 6th man. But yeah, it's a sad list.

Best I can tell it was just one ACL but subsequent surgeries due to lingering issues (but couldn't find for sure as there's vague language) and by age 28 he was basically a part time player and a shell of himself. But of course technology has advance a ton since then. Plus, Jabari is a nice guy and he works so he'll actually come back stronger than he was before. We all know that, if you don't believe it you're a hater.

[emunney]

I think Manning had three reconstructions and came back to win 6th man. But yeah, it's a sad list.

Best I can tell it was just one ACL but subsequent surgeries due to lingering issues (but couldn't find for sure as there's vague language) and by age 28 he was basically a part time player and a shell of himself. But of course technology has advance a ton since then. Plus, Jabari is a nice guy and he works so he'll actually come back stronger than he was before. We all know that, if you don't believe it you're a hater.

receipts...

http://www1.nba.com/suns/history/suns-throwback-danny-manning/#gref

Manning suffered a torn ACL on three different occasions in his career (1989, 1995, 1998). Despite that, he played in two All-Star games (1993, 1994), won the Sixth Man of the Year Award (1998) and played in every regular season game in three different seasons (1991-92, 1999, 2000-01)

[Ruzious]

Yeah. There's the problem.

Jabari will still be a 20+ PPG scorer when hes on the court full time. I bet you thought there was no way he would score 20 a game last year

Please list all the NBA players who scored 20+ PPG after tearing an ACL twice. Hell, after tearing 2 ACLs in either knee.

I'll do it for you below.




The list of players who had their career as a highly productive NBA player end with the second ACL tear is below.
Every player who ever tore 2 ACLs. Dejaun Blair is probably the biggest success story, and even he tore them in high school and they just gradually degenerated as his surrounding musculature matured and he somehow learned to play without ACLs.


Obviously, what happened in the past doesn't set anything in stone re: Jabari. But I don't think paying him huge money based on a literally unprecedented assumption is wise. It's more like insane.

Blair didn't tear his ACL; he didn't have an ACL. That was what people were freaked out about with him.

[midranger]

Jabari will still be a 20+ PPG scorer when hes on the court full time. I bet you thought there was no way he would score 20 a game last year

Please list all the NBA players who scored 20+ PPG after tearing an ACL twice. Hell, after tearing 2 ACLs in either knee.

I'll do it for you below.




The list of players who had their career as a highly productive NBA player end with the second ACL tear is below.
Every player who ever tore 2 ACLs. Dejaun Blair is probably the biggest success story, and even he tore them in high school and they just gradually degenerated as his surrounding musculature matured and he somehow learned to play without ACLs.


Obviously, what happened in the past doesn't set anything in stone re: Jabari. But I don't think paying him huge money based on a literally unprecedented assumption is wise. It's more like insane.

Blair didn't tear his ACL; he didn't have an ACL. That was what people were freaked out about with him.

During his high-school surgeries, Blair's doctors did not purposefully remove his ACLs—the going theory is that they tried to repair some partial damage to the ligaments and failed. Then, over time, Blair's ACLs deteriorated to the point of disappearance. Since this was a gradual change, his muscles and other ligaments could have adapted slowly to the added strain. Without such an adjustment period—if his doctors had simply cut out the ligaments, for example—it's likely he would have injured himself on the court quite rapidly. Blair is now thought to face a higher risk of damaging his knees (especially his meniscus) than athletes with repaired ACLs—and he may end up with osteoarthritis.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2009/11/no_ligaments_no_problem.html

[Ruzious]

Btw, the worst basketball injury - by far - that I saw was Sean Livingston's - where he tore all 3 major ligaments and broke his leg and kneecap. If he can come back from that, and with the improvements in sports science since then, it shouldn't surprise anyone if Parker comes back strong. - Dr. Ruz

[emunney]

I played without an ACL for some unknown period of time and then had a terrible meniscus injury playing softball. Food for thought, in case anybody was considering having their ACLs snipped.

[HurricaneKid]

I think Manning had three reconstructions and came back to win 6th man. But yeah, it's a sad list.

Best I can tell it was just one ACL but subsequent surgeries due to lingering issues (but couldn't find for sure as there's vague language) and by age 28 he was basically a part time player and a shell of himself. But of course technology has advance a ton since then. Plus, Jabari is a nice guy and he works so he'll actually come back stronger than he was before. We all know that, if you don't believe it you're a hater.

receipts...

http://www1.nba.com/suns/history/suns-throwback-danny-manning/#gref

Manning suffered a torn ACL on three different occasions in his career (1989, 1995, 1998). Despite that, he played in two All-Star games (1993, 1994), won the Sixth Man of the Year Award (1998) and played in every regular season game in three different seasons (1991-92, 1999, 2000-01)

So you are telling me he wasn't the same after his 2nd tear...

FTR, Manning quite possibly had the best tourney run of any player in the past 45 years, and was a generational talent. He was a FAR better player coming out of college than Jabari and I like Jabari more than a lot of guys here. I feel like the fact that he played so long ago AND his NBA career not turning out to be as good as most expected (take your pick Clippers or 3 ACLs) is clouding what he was at Jabari's age. Which is kind of the point. If the best prospects cannot overcome this injury why are we backing up the Brinks truck for him?

[raferfenix]

Bucks just put out another video of him dunking:

Read on Twitter

He’s getting a lot of social media attention if we were about to trade him.