The Jabari Discussion Thread - Back 2/2

[Prince12]

So manning play every game in the season twice after his third and 12 years after his first.

[DingleJerry]

Btw, the worst basketball injury - by far - that I saw was Sean Livingston's - where he tore all 3 major ligaments and broke his leg and kneecap. If he can come back from that, and with the improvements in sports science since then, it shouldn't surprise anyone if Parker comes back strong. - Dr. Ruz

Possible and likely are two vastly different things.

[emunney]

Best I can tell it was just one ACL but subsequent surgeries due to lingering issues (but couldn't find for sure as there's vague language) and by age 28 he was basically a part time player and a shell of himself. But of course technology has advance a ton since then. Plus, Jabari is a nice guy and he works so he'll actually come back stronger than he was before. We all know that, if you don't believe it you're a hater.

receipts...

http://www1.nba.com/suns/history/suns-throwback-danny-manning/#gref

Manning suffered a torn ACL on three different occasions in his career (1989, 1995, 1998). Despite that, he played in two All-Star games (1993, 1994), won the Sixth Man of the Year Award (1998) and played in every regular season game in three different seasons (1991-92, 1999, 2000-01)

So you are telling me he wasn't the same after his 2nd tear...

FTR, Manning quite possibly had the best tourney run of any player in the past 45 years, and was a generational talent. He was a FAR better player coming out of college than Jabari and I like Jabari more than a lot of guys here.

I certainly didn't suggest he was the same. I said he came back to win 6th man. He had previously been a 2x all-star.

[Jez2983]

Ankle Steph Curry, though. Brings up an interesting thought. Any other injured guys you'd rather take a shot on?

Giles? Or are we staying away from knees and Dukes

[emunney]

Ankle Steph Curry, though. Brings up an interesting thought. Any other injured guys you'd rather take a shot on?

Giles? Or are we staying away from knees and Dukes

I'm fine with Dukies, but I'd prefer a guy without multiple knee recons, yes. Exum?

[bucksbrewers3]

Btw, the worst basketball injury - by far - that I saw was Sean Livingston's - where he tore all 3 major ligaments and broke his leg and kneecap. If he can come back from that, and with the improvements in sports science since then, it shouldn't surprise anyone if Parker comes back strong. - Dr. Ruz

Possible and likely are two vastly different things.

It was disgusting however Livingston is 215 lbs soaking wet and Jabari is 250 a lot of weight on those knees for a guy who’s sole game is relying on the athleticism

[DingleJerry]

So manning play every game in the season twice after his third and 12 years after his first.

One of those years was the strike year of 50 games. Eyeballing his stat lines he dropped off a level after his 2nd and was basically a part time bench after his 3rd. Still, he's probably the biggest success story in this situation and it's still not a very good result, especially when you look at the fact that it did happen a 3rd time. But it's been 20 years since then and a lot has certainly changed.

[midranger]

Btw, the worst basketball injury - by far - that I saw was Sean Livingston's - where he tore all 3 major ligaments and broke his leg and kneecap. If he can come back from that, and with the improvements in sports science since then, it shouldn't surprise anyone if Parker comes back strong. - Dr. Ruz

I wouldn't be shocked if he came back stronger than ever and scored 20+ ppg for 10 years. I wouldn't be shocked if he played 3 games and blew it again. I wouldn't be shocked if he could still play, but was a lesser player than previous.

I think we all know that there is a spectrum of outcomes possible on his recovery. Historical precedent looks unfavorable. I certainly wouldn't be willing to gamble the next half decade of this team's cap health on the assumption that the unprecedented, best outcome is the most likely outcome. I would favor waiting, collecting more (as much as possible) information about the likelihood of any one of the above outcomes before moving in any direction. This is of course, unless the scales tip the risk model in our favor i.e. good value in trade or substantial discount on price.

[emunney]

He also had 9 years between re-doing the first knee and 6 years between the first two tears. Jabari's were a little more than 2 years apart. I'm not sure what that means but it feels more ominous.

[midranger]

So manning play every game in the season twice after his third and 12 years after his first.

One of those years was the strike year of 50 games. Eyeballing his stat lines he dropped off a level after his 2nd and was basically a part time bench after his 3rd. Still, he's probably the biggest success story in this situation and it's still not a very good result, especially when you look at the fact that it did happen a 3rd time. But it's been 20 years since then and a lot has certainly changed.

He went from all-star to bench player after his second. I guess he had a couple good years off the bench after the second, including the 6th man year as mentioned. But his starting point in terms of natural talent, skill, and production was quite high. He kind of reinvented himself as a player based primarily on his varied skill set.

[PANDEMONEUM]

ill say it again,
IF Jabari gets a contract extension,
even in the teens $ wise,
and
gets injured again,
it wastes Giannis years.

*

figure out how to get out of, or lessen or shorten the $ owed to Mirza, Henson, Delly
and trade Jabari,
that will give the Bucks 25$M to sign a FA
that feels safer then extending Jabari, hoping he doesnt get injured again, and hoping he can get to all star level production

[old skool]

After two ACL reconstructions, Parker has limited trade value. Any team willing to gamble on his future, knowing that he wants/expects a big contract, will not be willing to give up much of value that does not carry it's own downside - either a hefty salary that is exceeds on court production, or a comparable injury risk, or a team chemistry problem.

Complicating the Bucks ability to get value for Parker is the short window of time between his return and the trade deadline.

With the trade route offering limited hope, the Bucks' alternative would be to sign Parker to a fair deal. Unfortunately, that will have them meeting Parker's "market value", when that market value is set by whatever one other team is willing to pay. Even with his injury history, Parker is a rare talent that some NBA team is likely to gamble on with a large contract.

Regardless of the outcome, I expect there will be a lot of groaning when his near term future is decided.

[Prince12]

ill say it again,
IF Jabari gets a contract extension,
even in the teens $ wise,
and
gets injured again,
it wastes Giannis years.

*

figure out how to get out of, or lessen or shorten the $ owed to Mirza, Henson, Delly
and trade Jabari,
that will give the Bucks 25$M to sign a FA
that feels safer then extending Jabari, hoping he doesnt get injured again, and hoping he can get to all star level production

I wouldn't be rolling with that avatar..

[coolhandluke121]

Btw, the worst basketball injury - by far - that I saw was Sean Livingston's - where he tore all 3 major ligaments and broke his leg and kneecap. If he can come back from that, and with the improvements in sports science since then, it shouldn't surprise anyone if Parker comes back strong. - Dr. Ruz

Possible and likely are two vastly different things.

It was disgusting however Livingston is 215 lbs soaking wet and Jabari is 250 a lot of weight on those knees for a guy who’s sole game is relying on the athleticism

Also nobody was stupid enough to ever give him big money after the injury, which is kind of the point. Also, it's not like Shaun lived up to the potential he showed before getting hurt. If Jabari recovers equally well, an 8-figure salary would be toxic.

[Chapter29]

Your post is exactly spot on - but doesn't describe Jabari

He is now a young player coming off 2 ACLS on the same knee in 120 games, who used to be a 20+ ppg player

Sure, but I guess my stance is under the assumption that when he comes back in 2018 he still looks like the Parker he was in 2017.

Yeah. There's the problem.

But he will. That isn't really the problem. Its fear of reinjury, especially given style of play.

And now Wiggins signs his deal. The pressure is on.

[PANDEMONEUM]

I wouldn't be rolling with that avatar..

my love for team usa soccer rivals my bucks fandom

i might still have a WC team, if Greece can advance from their playin/playoff, H/A matches

[Swan Vox]

Bucks just put out another video of him dunking:

Read on Twitter

He’s getting a lot of social media attention if we were about to trade him.

I have a feeling we're about to do something stupid. Wonder if Lil' Lasry has been "training" as a salary cap expert as well...

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

He also had 9 years between re-doing the first knee and 6 years between the first two tears. Jabari's were a little more than 2 years apart. I'm not sure what that means but it feels more ominous.

danny manning attended and won a state championship at the same HS that my two daughters currently attend.

that doesn't shed any real light or make me feel better about any of this **** but it is a neat little tidbit you may like

[JEIS]

Bucks just put out another video of him dunking:

Read on Twitter

He’s getting a lot of social media attention if we were about to trade him.

I have a feeling we're about to do something stupid. Wonder if Lil' Lasry has been "training" as a salary cap expert as well...

With Wiggins signing too... It does feels imminent.

[chonestown]

Bucks just put out another video of him dunking:

Read on Twitter

He’s getting a lot of social media attention if we were about to trade him.

I have a feeling we're about to do something stupid. Wonder if Lil' Lasry has been "training" as a salary cap expert as well...

With Wiggins signing too... It does feels imminent.

Huh. Bucks are at Kohl Center I guess.

FWIW, anybody that uses "The K-Hole" to describe the Kohl Center must credit me.