The Jabari Discussion Thread - Back 2/2

[StickeeFingaz]

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Watch this video. I really want to keep Jabari around.

[StickeeFingaz]

SI piece.

Jabari is definitely in shape. If that's 'fat', I wish I were fat.

Wish nothing but the best for this guy.

https://t.co/jwx57nXjC7

Sorry, VooDoo. Didn’t see you posted this already.

[Prez]

I know this has been going on so long so I know everyone is burned out on the argument over and over. But I don't really see CHL being rude to anyone throughout it whereas he gets constantly attacked. And he and GoS were attacked and mocked during Jabari's hot streak last year. Sure it's repetitive but so is everyone else on the other side of the argument so I don't see how he's any worse than anyone else, he's just in the minority so he stands out more.

The biggest irony type thing I've seen throughout is a board so quick to mock PPGZZ is overwhelmingly making excuses for Jabari and spinning positive for Jabari on how he still can improve and be a useful player. Before I get attacked, I actually do agree with that view point. I also just think it should apply to all players to find their pluses and try to use them as much as possible while tryign to mask their weaknesses as much as possible. That's coaching 101. But we're so quick to trash other guys and act like they are who they are with no chance of improvement or better utilization by a coach, yet so optimistic for him.

Not sure why you're generalizing "a board" like it's one entity spewing the same takes. As if the same people who knock some of the low impact volume scoring young players around the league are the same ones defending Parker now. Or as if all volume scoring young players are the same and should have their upside evaluated the same.

[DingleJerry]

I know this has been going on so long so I know everyone is burned out on the argument over and over. But I don't really see CHL being rude to anyone throughout it whereas he gets constantly attacked. And he and GoS were attacked and mocked during Jabari's hot streak last year. Sure it's repetitive but so is everyone else on the other side of the argument so I don't see how he's any worse than anyone else, he's just in the minority so he stands out more.

The biggest irony type thing I've seen throughout is a board so quick to mock PPGZZ is overwhelmingly making excuses for Jabari and spinning positive for Jabari on how he still can improve and be a useful player. Before I get attacked, I actually do agree with that view point. I also just think it should apply to all players to find their pluses and try to use them as much as possible while tryign to mask their weaknesses as much as possible. That's coaching 101. But we're so quick to trash other guys and act like they are who they are with no chance of improvement or better utilization by a coach, yet so optimistic for him.

Not sure why you're generalizing "a board" like it's one entity spewing the same takes. As if the same people who knock some of the low impact volume scoring young players around the league are the same ones defending Parker now. Or as if all volume scoring young players are the same and should have their upside evaluated the same.

Of course it's impossible to know poster by poster. Just think of it as 'general consensus of the board', which would be a better way to phrase I guess. Something like the general consensus of the board is to sniff out PPPGGGZZ and mock it, while on the other hand the general consensus of the board is the extremely optimist view of Jabari. I guess I just try to be more positive, find what a guy does well and how a good coach can use them.

I mean, before the 2nd tear that poll was like 87% against trading Parker no matter what, and pretty much only 3 or 4 active posters on the trade side of it. Whereas I'd say almost all posters are anti-PPG people. Obviously there's a heck of a lot overlap in there of people talking out of both sides of their mouth.

[sdn40]

What bothers me is that the stories and diary pages don't match up with the contract demands. It's all futile because it's all about the ACL's, but something doesn't add up for me. For some reason it bugs me. Granted, the contract demands could be agent driven, but the agent works for the player so a conversation must have taken place.

Diary Jabari would look at Giannis and his contract, look at himself and his brief tenure, look at his 'brothers' on the team, and NOT make claims for a max deal.
I could go on but you guys get the jist I hope. Something smells other than Jabaris rotting knee.

[VooDoo7]

SI piece.

Jabari is definitely in shape. If that's 'fat', I wish I were fat.

Wish nothing but the best for this guy.

https://t.co/jwx57nXjC7

Sorry, VooDoo. Didn’t see you posted this already.

No biggie. I only beat you by a few minutes I think...

[DingleJerry]

What bothers me is that the stories and diary pages don't match up with the contract demands. It's all futile because it's all about the ACL's, but something doesn't add up for me. For some reason it bugs me. Granted, the contract demands could be agent driven, but the agent works for the player so a conversation must have taken place. Diary Jabari would look at Giannis and his contract, look at himself and his brief tenure, look at his 'brothers' on the team, and NOT make claims for a max deal.
I could go on but you guys get the jist I hope. Something smells other that Jabaris rotting knee.

It's all fluff, I don't know why people buy in so much to that stuff and think it's going to matter. If he gets traded to PHX or literally anywhere else there will be similar stories about how much he loves it there too.

[sdn40]

What bothers me is that the stories and diary pages don't match up with the contract demands. It's all futile because it's all about the ACL's, but something doesn't add up for me. For some reason it bugs me. Granted, the contract demands could be agent driven, but the agent works for the player so a conversation must have taken place. Diary Jabari would look at Giannis and his contract, look at himself and his brief tenure, look at his 'brothers' on the team, and NOT make claims for a max deal.
I could go on but you guys get the jist I hope. Something smells other that Jabaris rotting knee.

It's all fluff, I don't know why people buy in so much to that stuff and think it's going to matter. If he gets traded to PHX or literally anywhere else there will be similar stories about how much he loves it there too.

And self promotion never hurts, but he kind of went out of his way to make his feelings known, not just mic speak. So yeah, I kind of got caught up in believing it. And I'm not naive to such things. It's the very first thing I thought of when his demands came out

[humanrefutation]

I have no problem with Jabari asking for a max contract. He can ask for whatever he wants. You can choose to take it personally and indict his character, or you can choose to take it in stride as a negotiating tactic and keep your focus on what you're willing to give him.

He should not get a max contract, obviously. So, it's all about how far the Bucks are willing to go to get ink to paper before the start of the regular season. If I'm them, I don't sign him to anything other than contract with a significant discount and/or significant protections prior to RFA next season.

[crkone]

It's the same as Giannis taking less "to help the team".

[DingleJerry]

Yea it's all marketing and I certainly don't blame the guys. It helps for advertising, fans buy it so become fan faves making it harder to trade or let go rather than pay a big contract, etc. It's good business. I just can't believe fans still put any stock in it after all these years of seeing the BS over and over. Or every celebrity and politician who preaches family and jesus get caught up in scandals.

[Prez]

Of course it's impossible to know poster by poster. Just think of it as 'general consensus of the board', which would be a better way to phrase I guess. Something like the general consensus of the board is to sniff out PPPGGGZZ and mock it, while on the other hand the general consensus of the board is the extremely optimist view of Jabari. I guess I just try to be more positive, find what a guy does well and how a good coach can use them.

I mean, before the 2nd tear that poll was like 87% against trading Parker no matter what, and pretty much only 3 or 4 active posters on the trade side of it. Whereas I'd say almost all posters are anti-PPG people. Obviously there's a heck of a lot overlap in there of people talking out of both sides of their mouth.

I mean I think I would qualify as someone who criticizes PPGZZZ logic and tends to knock those types of players. It doesn’t mean I’m not still optimistic about guys like Devin Booker, D’Angelo Russell, etc. With a guy like Wiggins, yeah, I’m a little concerned how bad he is at basically everything besides mediocre efficiency scoring. I get that you want to stay objective and not be a homer but there’s just way too many different personalities and viewpoints here, and not all PPGZZ guys are the same.

As for the polls, I’d have to go back and look at the threads but idk, Parker looked like he had special offensive upside. Over the 1st half of the season up until that horrendous 1-10 stretch dude averaged per 36 like 22/6/3 on 57% TS, and was actually decently represented by impact metrics..solid net rating, was even a neutral or so by RPM at that point iirc. Then everything went to ****. Can you seriously blame people for wanting to hold onto a 6'8" 250 physical freak 21 year old putting up an efficient 20+ a night with multiple dimensions of his game still clearly in development?

[M-C-G]

Of course it's impossible to know poster by poster. Just think of it as 'general consensus of the board', which would be a better way to phrase I guess. Something like the general consensus of the board is to sniff out PPPGGGZZ and mock it, while on the other hand the general consensus of the board is the extremely optimist view of Jabari. I guess I just try to be more positive, find what a guy does well and how a good coach can use them.

It could be because he wasn't just a PPGZZZ, but he was looking like he could be a really special type of PPGZZZZZ player, I mean we know how few guys were able to do what he did and he did it within the flow of the game. This isn't a guy calling his own number a bunch of times on a 20 win team.

It could also be because league scoring is increasing at a rate maybe never seen before, it could be because his skill set was so blatantly missing when we played the Raptors in the playoffs, it could be people believe he will continue to work on being a better defender and that maybe he won't always be a bad team defender, it could be because people believe pairing him with a rim protector or us changing our scheme which we all hate may help him tremendously.

At the end of the day, some people see him as a special talent that was scratching the surface of his ability.

Steph Curry had the same DBPM at age 23 as Jabari did at age 21. Two years later his DBPM was neutral. Klay Thompson DBPM was worse than Jabarti the last three seasons. But anyway hard working guys tend to get better, and he doesn't have to be much better than average defensively to be a star if his offense keeps growing from last year.

[buckboy]

I have no problem with Jabari asking for a max contract. He can ask for whatever he wants. You can choose to take it personally and indict his character, or you can choose to take it in stride as a negotiating tactic and keep your focus on what you're willing to give him.

He should not get a max contract, obviously. So, it's all about how far the Bucks are willing to go to get ink to paper before the start of the regular season. If I'm them, I don't sign him to anything other than contract with a significant discount and/or significant protections prior to RFA next season.

This sums up my feelings more eloquently than I ever could have.

Agree 100%.

[sdn40]

I have no problem with Jabari asking for a max contract. He can ask for whatever he wants. You can choose to take it personally and indict his character, or you can choose to take it in stride as a negotiating tactic and keep your focus on what you're willing to give him.

He should not get a max contract, obviously. So, it's all about how far the Bucks are willing to go to get ink to paper before the start of the regular season. If I'm them, I don't sign him to anything other than contract with a significant discount and/or significant protections prior to RFA next season.

Agreed, unless, like I've said before, his demands basically have the Bucks saying we are too far apart to even come to the table.

[Fresh_Prince12]

I still believe Jabari can be special in this league. Hopefully we resign him to a fair deal

[Ron Swanson]

If you think that 20 PPG on 56.3% TS is just PPGZZZ, then that's the problem. Here's the group of players that have scored at least 20 PPG on over 56% TS ever at 21 years old:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=21&age_max=21&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=ts_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=56&order_by=ws

14 players. That's it. That's the list.

[humanrefutation]

I have no problem with Jabari asking for a max contract. He can ask for whatever he wants. You can choose to take it personally and indict his character, or you can choose to take it in stride as a negotiating tactic and keep your focus on what you're willing to give him.

He should not get a max contract, obviously. So, it's all about how far the Bucks are willing to go to get ink to paper before the start of the regular season. If I'm them, I don't sign him to anything other than contract with a significant discount and/or significant protections prior to RFA next season.

Agreed, unless, like I've said before, his demands basically have the Bucks saying we are too far apart to even come to the table.

If his heart is set on a max deal and there's no room for negotiation in that position at all, then we'll find out during RFA whether some team will take that enormous risk. My guess is that he'll struggle to find a team willing to give him anything close to a max deal. Hell, he might pull a Noel and choose to play a season on the QO, giving us another season to evaluate his recovery and weigh that into whatever - if anything - we'll offer him in UFA.

[Prez]

If you think that 20 PPG on 56.3% TS is just PPGZZZ, then that's the problem. Here's the group of players that have scored at least 20 PPG on over 56% TS ever at 21 years old:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=21&age_max=21&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=ts_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=56&order_by=ws

14 players. That's it. That's the list.

Yep. And it's even more exclusive when you consider his range, adding in maybe a 1 3PM per game filter.

[H2tObes]

If you think that 20 PPG on 56.3% TS is just PPGZZZ, then that's the problem. Here's the group of players that have scored at least 20 PPG on over 56% TS ever at 21 years old:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=21&age_max=21&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=ts_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=56&order_by=ws

14 players. That's it. That's the list.

Yep. And it's even more exclusive when you consider his range, adding in maybe a 1 3PM per game filter.

If you filter by needing to make at least 1 3P a game, he is 1 of 4 along with KAT, KD, and LBJ. So he is literally one of the most gifted young scorers in the 3PT age

And I know it's arbitrary, but that sort of company means something whether you want to acknowledge it or not