The Jabari Discussion Thread - Back 2/2

[DingleJerry]

Of course it's impossible to know poster by poster. Just think of it as 'general consensus of the board', which would be a better way to phrase I guess. Something like the general consensus of the board is to sniff out PPPGGGZZ and mock it, while on the other hand the general consensus of the board is the extremely optimist view of Jabari. I guess I just try to be more positive, find what a guy does well and how a good coach can use them.

It could be because he wasn't just a PPGZZZ, but he was looking like he could be a really special type of PPGZZZZZ player, I mean we know how few guys were able to do what he did and he did it within the flow of the game. This isn't a guy calling his own number a bunch of times on a 20 win team.

It could also be because league scoring is increasing at a rate maybe never seen before, it could be because his skill set was so blatantly missing when we played the Raptors in the playoffs, it could be people believe he will continue to work on being a better defender and that maybe he won't always be a bad team defender, it could be because people believe pairing him with a rim protector or us changing our scheme which we all hate may help him tremendously.

At the end of the day, some people see him as a special talent that was scratching the surface of his ability.

Steph Curry had the same DBPM at age 23 as Jabari did at age 21. Two years later his DBPM was neutral. Klay Thompson DBPM was worse than Jabarti the last three seasons. But anyway hard working guys tend to get better, and he doesn't have to be much better than average defensively to be a star if his offense keeps growing from last year.

I get it, like I said in the first post, something like before I get attacked that I agree with that on Jabari. You're kind doing what I'm saying in finding the positives for him. I just said if we cared we could do the same for lots of guys that we just bash instead. Kind of like Prez said a bit back that he also sees the positive in guys like Booker, Russell or a Wiggins.

Wiggins has kind of been the most glaring hypocrisy on here to me the last year. Lots of picking on and bashing him when lots of his faults are the same as Jabari's, but the one positive he has over him is good knees. I mean, generally the board consensus (haha) has been that Wiggins contract is ridiculous but we still have a large contingent of the board trying to justify the same contract for Jabari with two torn ACLs

[H2tObes]

Jabari was clearly better than Wiggins before the 2nd knee injury though, he was a more complete offensive player. It's not hypocrisy, they are not 1 of the same

[paulpressey25]

"Nailed it?" Nah.

Where I felt Locke nailed it was his comment about Jabari not getting rebounds. That was a pretty prescient comment and points out the main weakness of Jabari. He's just not able to actively focus on what is happening on the court when he doesn't have the ball in his hands.

You see it on defense. When his man has the ball, Jabari starts to get animated and active and his hands are quick and can get steals. But when his man doesn't have the ball he drifts.

Well that issue manifests itself in rebounding. He's just not paying attention to where the ball is going, nor positioning himself and blocking out. I've always felt his upside would be Blake Griffin if he was able to do that. Blake is able to get those 10+ rpg and in the process makes him a more valuable player despite his defensive issues.

[DingleJerry]

Jabari was clearly better than Wiggins before the 2nd knee injury though, he was a more complete offensive player. It's not hypocrisy, they are not 1 of the same

After Jabari showed the 3 ball I'd take him over gamewise too, but not with even the one ACL and with me viewing Wiggins as more of a 2/3 and Jabari as 3/4 so I thought Wiggins fit with Giannis better. But It's not like Jabari was 90 rating and Wiggins was some Jabroni like a 68. They were close and have very similar faults. Yet one is mocked and the other was generally viewed godly on here. Switch their jerseys and this board would have been pointing out Wiggins impressive scoring stats at his age and wanting him to improve the other aspects to take the next step as a true star (sounds familiar) while saying we'd rather have him than Jabari because of the ACL. That's all I'm saying.

For the efficiency aspects of the PPG discussed. I get that and that's why I liked Jabari too, again I'm not bashing Jabari, I agree. I'm saying we can find other people's positives too like we can with him. Also, I guess I used the PPGGZ joke a different way more along that a guy is only good at that one thing, while generally being poor at D/rebounding, etc. I didn't view it as having an efficiency qualifier but yes that big positive and strength is why any good coach should have been able to find a way to use Jabari in a positive way

[DingleJerry]

"Nailed it?" Nah.

Where I felt Locke nailed it was his comment about Jabari not getting rebounds. That was a pretty prescient comment and points out the main weakness of Jabari. He's just not able to actively focus on what is happening on the court when he doesn't have the ball in his hands.

You see it on defense. When his man has the ball, Jabari starts to get animated and active and his hands are quick and can get steals. But when his man doesn't have the ball he drifts.

Well that issue manifests itself in rebounding. He's just not paying attention to where the ball is going, nor positioning himself and blocking out. I've always felt his upside would be Blake Griffin if he was able to do that. Blake is able to get those 10+ rpg and in the process makes him a more valuable player despite his defensive issues.

I remember watching a game last year with my dad and seeing Jabari miss a rebound due to literally standing there while the guy ran right around him for rebound and put back that I commented I'd literally never seen him box a guy out. He tries and jumps for the ball and does care, but I never saw him physically box out. Of course I can't watch every game and every player, but as much as I do it's surprising to have never seen/noticed it once.

[H2tObes]

Jabari was clearly better than Wiggins before the 2nd knee injury though, he was a more complete offensive player. It's not hypocrisy, they are not 1 of the same

After Jabari showed the 3 ball I'd take him over gamewise too, but not with even the one ACL. It's not like Jabari was 90 rating and Wiggins was some Jabroni like a 68. They were close and have very similar faults. Yet one is mocked and the other was generally viewed godly on here. Switch their jerseys and this board would have been pointing out Wiggins impressive scoring stats at his age and wanting him to improve the other aspects to take the next step as a true star (sounds familiar) while saying we'd rather have him than Jabari because of the ACL. That's all I'm saying.

For the efficiency aspects of the PPG discussed. I get that and that's why I liked Jabari too, again I'm not bashing Jabari, I agree. I'm saying we can find other people's positives too like we can with him. Also, I guess I used the PPGGZ joke a different way more along that a guy is only good at that one thing, while generally being poor at D/rebounding, etc. I didn't view it as having an efficiency qualifier but yes that big positive and strength is why any good coach should have been able to find a way to use Jabari in a positive way

When was Jabari viewed as godly? Where does this come from? He had people rooting for him and liking what they see because he is a Milwaukee Buck, but generally everyone acknowledged he was putrid on defense while being a stud offensive player. Is it really that hard to believe that people genuinely like Jabari the player more than Wiggins? Both suck at defense, but Jabari actually got his points in the flow of the offense and looks like a natural basketball player, while Wiggins looks like an Olympic athlete who got told to play basketball. Wiggins efficiency is mediocre at best and he does not get points in the flow of the offense, him getting his points throws a wrench into your offense. Their abilities to create for others are not even close, Jabari was quickly gaining traction as a distributor before he went down, Wiggins is allergic to passing. I just think this notion that you are a total homer for clearly preferring Jabari is ridiculous

[sdn40]

Have no interest in the Wiggins / Parker debate, but it sure would be nice to have a guy that could create his own shot right about now

[fansinceforever]

I mean, all evidence thus far indicates that his athleticism is something he'll regain. before he plays, I want to read an article about what about his game he's going to change to prevent this from happening again.

[SupremeHustle]

ETA: Wow, this is exactly the same as all those times people dismissed Sigra for calling Redd sneakily selfish despite superficially being an obvious high character guy. Anyone else see the uncanny similarities there?

I'm just here to read the comments and to say I was suspicious about Redd before anyone on this board.

Redd was a tough one. Had me fooled big time. He's the one who taught me that you could be a really good scorer and not be a good player at all.

Understood. I think the problem is when a one-dimensional good scorer is also your best player. That'll never work.

Redd as a number 2/3 guy would have been great. He could have been a difference maker on a team that was almost there. Put him on that Nets 2003 or 2004 squad and I think they win a title.

[LUKE23]

Agreed on Parker as probably the third best player on a contender. The problem is getting him for third best player on a contender money.

[Prince12]

Agreed on Parker as probably the third best player on a contender. The problem is getting him for third best player on a contender money.

Id say Carmelo is a third best player on a contender also. But he's made a living on being paid like the man. Some people care more about money then winning, or actually most do. Either that or they just have a high opinion of themselves.

[LUKE23]

Well, winning and money don't have to be mutually exclusive for players. The issue for the Bucks is, in their salary structure, Middleton is a higher priority than Parker. Giannis has to be penciled in as a max guy until he's re-signed or leaves. How much money do you TRULY have available for Jabari?

I will say this - I REALLY do want to see our offense with all three of Giannis/Middleton/Parker healthy. I think it could be indefensible. I just don't see how they are going to work around the challenges they face with time, his injury, and the need to pay other players and/or salary being already allocated in other areas. It's going to be really goddam tough.

[DingleJerry]

Spoiler:

Jabari was clearly better than Wiggins before the 2nd knee injury though, he was a more complete offensive player. It's not hypocrisy, they are not 1 of the same

After Jabari showed the 3 ball I'd take him over gamewise too, but not with even the one ACL. It's not like Jabari was 90 rating and Wiggins was some Jabroni like a 68. They were close and have very similar faults. Yet one is mocked and the other was generally viewed godly on here. Switch their jerseys and this board would have been pointing out Wiggins impressive scoring stats at his age and wanting him to improve the other aspects to take the next step as a true star (sounds familiar) while saying we'd rather have him than Jabari because of the ACL. That's all I'm saying.

For the efficiency aspects of the PPG discussed. I get that and that's why I liked Jabari too, again I'm not bashing Jabari, I agree. I'm saying we can find other people's positives too like we can with him. Also, I guess I used the PPGGZ joke a different way more along that a guy is only good at that one thing, while generally being poor at D/rebounding, etc. I didn't view it as having an efficiency qualifier but yes that big positive and strength is why any good coach should have been able to find a way to use Jabari in a positive way

When was Jabari viewed as godly? Where does this come from? He had people rooting for him and liking what they see because he is a Milwaukee Buck, but generally everyone acknowledged he was putrid on defense while being a stud offensive player. Is it really that hard to believe that people genuinely like Jabari the player more than Wiggins? Both suck at defense, but Jabari actually got his points in the flow of the offense and looks like a natural basketball player, while Wiggins looks like an Olympic athlete who got told to play basketball. Wiggins efficiency is mediocre at best and he does not get points in the flow of the offense, him getting his points throws a wrench into your offense. Their abilities to create for others are not even close, Jabari was quickly gaining traction as a distributor before he went down, Wiggins is allergic to passing. I just think this notion that you are a total homer for clearly preferring Jabari is ridiculous

Well I guess you don't remember the way it was for anyone to say anything negative about him and the backlash that would come. At one point there was an argument with a number of people that literally assigned JAbari top 8-10 trade value in the whole league. I didn't say it was homer to prefer Jabari.

I'm saying it's homer to have Jabari as an untouchable superstar type like many did while also viewing Wiggins as trash like many did and currently do. The reality was they were very close with Jabari's efficiency winning out. Like if you had to assign ratings like in a video game and if you'd give Jabari an 87, then Wiggins would be like an 85, not a 68 bench player. Switch the jerseys and we'd love Wiggins, not at that price but as 22 yr old scorer that we're trying to coach up on his weaknesses just like Jabari. Just the contract negotiations give an example, general consensus of board is Wiggins' contract is a joke though most admit MN had no choice. Yet there's also a large chunk justifying the same contract with two torn ACLs.

Please move onto something else, I don't know if I can respond tonight anyway. But either way ya'll taking this as a Jabari bash and I'm not even bashing Jabari. I'm saying to be positive for everyone like the general consensus here was. Well I guess it's funny in a way the blowback I'm getting proves my point, I'm not even bashing the guy and people are coming at me defending him and pointing out all his positives while searching for the negs on the other guy.

[Prez]

I get it, like I said in the first post, something like before I get attacked that I agree with that on Jabari. You're kind doing what I'm saying in finding the positives for him. I just said if we cared we could do the same for lots of guys that we just bash instead. Kind of like Prez said a bit back that he also sees the positive in guys like Booker, Russell or a Wiggins.

Wiggins has kind of been the most glaring hypocrisy on here to me the last year. Lots of picking on and bashing him when lots of his faults are the same as Jabari's, but the one positive he has over him is good knees. I mean, generally the board consensus (haha) has been that Wiggins contract is ridiculous but we still have a large contingent of the board trying to justify the same contract for Jabari with two torn ACLs

Come on dude. Show me the "large contingent of the board" that is trying to justify a 5 year max deal for Jabari. This is pure strawmanning.

And Wiggins and Jabari are not the same players. Wiggins' health gives him the obvious huge edge in terms of contract & reliability but purely as offensive talents it's not unreasonable at all to think a healthy Jabari had higher offensive upside and could've been much more complete on that end. This is what I'm talking about when I say you're seemingly treating all PPGZZ guys the same as if they all have the same kind of upside and same kinds of skill-sets.

[H2tObes]

Spoiler:

After Jabari showed the 3 ball I'd take him over gamewise too, but not with even the one ACL. It's not like Jabari was 90 rating and Wiggins was some Jabroni like a 68. They were close and have very similar faults. Yet one is mocked and the other was generally viewed godly on here. Switch their jerseys and this board would have been pointing out Wiggins impressive scoring stats at his age and wanting him to improve the other aspects to take the next step as a true star (sounds familiar) while saying we'd rather have him than Jabari because of the ACL. That's all I'm saying.

For the efficiency aspects of the PPG discussed. I get that and that's why I liked Jabari too, again I'm not bashing Jabari, I agree. I'm saying we can find other people's positives too like we can with him. Also, I guess I used the PPGGZ joke a different way more along that a guy is only good at that one thing, while generally being poor at D/rebounding, etc. I didn't view it as having an efficiency qualifier but yes that big positive and strength is why any good coach should have been able to find a way to use Jabari in a positive way

When was Jabari viewed as godly? Where does this come from? He had people rooting for him and liking what they see because he is a Milwaukee Buck, but generally everyone acknowledged he was putrid on defense while being a stud offensive player. Is it really that hard to believe that people genuinely like Jabari the player more than Wiggins? Both suck at defense, but Jabari actually got his points in the flow of the offense and looks like a natural basketball player, while Wiggins looks like an Olympic athlete who got told to play basketball. Wiggins efficiency is mediocre at best and he does not get points in the flow of the offense, him getting his points throws a wrench into your offense. Their abilities to create for others are not even close, Jabari was quickly gaining traction as a distributor before he went down, Wiggins is allergic to passing. I just think this notion that you are a total homer for clearly preferring Jabari is ridiculous

Well I guess you don't remember the way it was for anyone to say anything negative about him and the backlash that would come. At one point there was an argument with a number of people that literally assigned JAbari top 8-10 trade value in the whole league. I didn't say it was homer to prefer Jabari.

I'm saying it's homer to have Jabari as an untouchable superstar type like many did while also viewing Wiggins as trash like many did and currently do. The reality was they were very close with Jabari's efficiency winning out. Like if you had to assign ratings like in a video game and if you'd give Jabari an 87, then Wiggins would be like an 85, not a 68 bench player. Switch the jerseys and we'd love Wiggins, not at that price but as 22 yr old scorer that we're trying to coach up on his weaknesses just like Jabari. Just the contract negotiations give an example, general consensus of board is Wiggins' contract is a joke though most admit MN had no choice. Yet there's also a large chunk justifying the same contract with two torn ACLs.

Please move onto something else, I don't know if I can respond tonight anyway. But either way ya'll taking this as a Jabari bash and I'm not even bashing Jabari. I'm saying to be positive for everyone like the general consensus here was. Well I guess it's funny in a way the blowback I'm getting proves my point, I'm not even bashing the guy and people are coming at me defending him and pointing out all his positives while searching for the negs on the other guy.

You came into the thread with a long post and don't expect to have a conversation? No one is attacking you. You actually replied to me earlier on this page, I never quoted you

I just don't see this bias that you do, people liked Jabari more than Wiggins for very valid reasons. Just because a small group of posters always jokes about PPGZZZ players does not mean the whole board actually thinks like that. You judge players on a case by case basis, not clump them together because they both are primarily scorers

And fwiw, I want to trade Jabari. Many people that liked Jabari before probably agree with me. It's called thinking for yourself based on the situation.

[M-C-G]

"Nailed it?" Nah.

Where I felt Locke nailed it was his comment about Jabari not getting rebounds. That was a pretty prescient comment and points out the main weakness of Jabari. He's just not able to actively focus on what is happening on the court when he doesn't have the ball in his hands.

You see it on defense. When his man has the ball, Jabari starts to get animated and active and his hands are quick and can get steals. But when his man doesn't have the ball he drifts.

Well that issue manifests itself in rebounding. He's just not paying attention to where the ball is going, nor positioning himself and blocking out. I've always felt his upside would be Blake Griffin if he was able to do that. Blake is able to get those 10+ rpg and in the process makes him a more valuable player despite his defensive issues.

I remember watching a game last year with my dad and seeing Jabari miss a rebound due to literally standing there while the guy ran right around him for rebound and put back that I commented I'd literally never seen him box a guy out. He tries and jumps for the ball and does care, but I never saw him physically box out. Of course I can't watch every game and every player, but as much as I do it's surprising to have never seen/noticed it once.

Ok than hold everyone on our team to the same standard. We drafted a guy that didn't rebound with the first pick this year and our coaches response was "he will fit right in". This is as much a team problem as a Jabari one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DingleJerry]

Where I felt Locke nailed it was his comment about Jabari not getting rebounds. That was a pretty prescient comment and points out the main weakness of Jabari. He's just not able to actively focus on what is happening on the court when he doesn't have the ball in his hands.

You see it on defense. When his man has the ball, Jabari starts to get animated and active and his hands are quick and can get steals. But when his man doesn't have the ball he drifts.

Well that issue manifests itself in rebounding. He's just not paying attention to where the ball is going, nor positioning himself and blocking out. I've always felt his upside would be Blake Griffin if he was able to do that. Blake is able to get those 10+ rpg and in the process makes him a more valuable player despite his defensive issues.

I remember watching a game last year with my dad and seeing Jabari miss a rebound due to literally standing there while the guy ran right around him for rebound and put back that I commented I'd literally never seen him box a guy out. He tries and jumps for the ball and does care, but I never saw him physically box out. Of course I can't watch every game and every player, but as much as I do it's surprising to have never seen/noticed it once.

Ok than hold everyone on our team to the same standard. We drafted a guy that didn't rebound with the first pick this year and our coaches response was "he will fit right in". This is as much a team problem as a Jabari one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yea I mean I would that's why it was so shocking to realize I've never once seen/noticed him box out. I can't say that for anyone else. That doesn't mean anyone else is some rebounding freak either or awful. Just a comment on him. And again, I just viewed it as his weakness that at 21 yrs old can easily be coached up. Just like I'd say the weaknesses on many other guys can be coached up and hopefully hidden as much as possible by good coaching.

[DingleJerry]

I get it, like I said in the first post, something like before I get attacked that I agree with that on Jabari. You're kind doing what I'm saying in finding the positives for him. I just said if we cared we could do the same for lots of guys that we just bash instead. Kind of like Prez said a bit back that he also sees the positive in guys like Booker, Russell or a Wiggins.

Wiggins has kind of been the most glaring hypocrisy on here to me the last year. Lots of picking on and bashing him when lots of his faults are the same as Jabari's, but the one positive he has over him is good knees. I mean, generally the board consensus (haha) has been that Wiggins contract is ridiculous but we still have a large contingent of the board trying to justify the same contract for Jabari with two torn ACLs

Come on dude. Show me the "large contingent of the board" that is trying to justify a 5 year max deal for Jabari. This is pure strawmanning.

And Wiggins and Jabari are not the same players. Wiggins' health gives him the obvious huge edge in terms of contract & reliability but purely as offensive talents it's not unreasonable at all to think a healthy Jabari had higher offensive upside and could've been much more complete on that end. This is what I'm talking about when I say you're seemingly treating all PPGZZ guys the same as if they all have the same kind of upside and same kinds of skill-sets.

There has been several people say to do it. Efficient 20 ppg young scorer is going to get a max etc, Embiid got it so we gotta, if you don't think he's getting a max in rfa you're crazy so just do it, general talk about how he'll come back just as strong or stronger and will still be a huge piece of the future, will still be as athletic, so can't give up on him. Sure I'd grant no one is excited about but we can't laugh at MN like many did and then come back and justify doing it when it makes even less sense for us. And again I'm talking general themes and no way to know if it's same posters but there isn't a lot of heavy posters here so there has to be some overlap.

I don't think I ever said they were the same type of players anywhere and the whole time I said I'd take Jabari's game over him. I'm saying they're close in terms of level of good or however you wanna phrase, like a 2k rating whereas it's talked about here like Jabari was one some whole different superstar level and Wiggins is a bumb we literally wouldn't even want on our team. and my whole point is to look at all players and find the positives they can do and minimize weakness like we did with Jabari. How in any way is that saying they're all the same? You seem to be implying that I'm saying they all suck when my whole point was the complete opposite. I don't know how that's missed

[Pachinko_]

For me there was a specific point in time that I lost faith in Jabari and realised he will never be the player I hoped he would be. And even worse, it meant that either he just didn't get it, or I didn't get it. No other option.

It was an article at the ringer, where he said this:

"My special training regimen this summer," he says, and his voice drops, quiet, "was nothing."

A pause.

"Absolutely nothing."

He leans back, satisfied, as if this answer has unlocked the key to understanding the space Parker occupies in his sport and its larger culture. He is talking about basketball, yes, but also about his entire sense of himself — the ways in which he’s been programmed to succeed from the time he was a young boy, the pressure to perform and to lead that has mounted as he’s grown. He’s spent the past couple of years running from that pressure while running into its attending work. Now, he shrugs. "I just hooped."

He continues: "I didn’t train at all. I just played basketball. All day. Every day." Some days, he joined overseas pros and high-level college players at Thrive3 in West Milwaukee. Others, he found games at Marquette. One afternoon, he got a text from Austin Stueck, a former Division III star at the Milwaukee School of Engineering, whom Parker had met through a mutual friend. Would Parker be interested, Stueck asked, in a pickup game with some D-III players? Right away, Parker met him at the gym. "He never turned down a game," Stueck says. "It didn’t matter what day it was or what time it was. It didn’t matter who was playing. If he was in town, he wanted in."

When back home in Chicago, Parker hit the gym at Attack Athletics, owned by Michael Jordan’s former trainer Tim Grover, or got the keys to his old high school, Simeon, and played with childhood friends.

"Sometimes," he says, "I’ll sneak and play outside." There’s a blacktop court near his house in Milwaukee, a park near his childhood home in Chicago. "The game is somehow more pure out there. That’s what I needed."


To me this is a guy who is incredibly good at one thing, which is getting you buckets in a freestyle 1-1 situation, and has holes in pretty much every other aspect of his game, specifically everything that involves team and structure. And what does he do for improvement? Work more on literally the one thing he's already very good at (freestyle) and ignore what he's bad at (team and structure). Because pressure to succeed got to him. As if getting better at his weaknesses would not be the best way to deal with that pressure.

Either he doesn't understand basketball, or I don't understand basketball.
That's pretty much my relationship with Jabari as a fan LOL.

[DingleJerry]

Spoiler:

When was Jabari viewed as godly? Where does this come from? He had people rooting for him and liking what they see because he is a Milwaukee Buck, but generally everyone acknowledged he was putrid on defense while being a stud offensive player. Is it really that hard to believe that people genuinely like Jabari the player more than Wiggins? Both suck at defense, but Jabari actually got his points in the flow of the offense and looks like a natural basketball player, while Wiggins looks like an Olympic athlete who got told to play basketball. Wiggins efficiency is mediocre at best and he does not get points in the flow of the offense, him getting his points throws a wrench into your offense. Their abilities to create for others are not even close, Jabari was quickly gaining traction as a distributor before he went down, Wiggins is allergic to passing. I just think this notion that you are a total homer for clearly preferring Jabari is ridiculous

Well I guess you don't remember the way it was for anyone to say anything negative about him and the backlash that would come. At one point there was an argument with a number of people that literally assigned JAbari top 8-10 trade value in the whole league. I didn't say it was homer to prefer Jabari.

I'm saying it's homer to have Jabari as an untouchable superstar type like many did while also viewing Wiggins as trash like many did and currently do. The reality was they were very close with Jabari's efficiency winning out. Like if you had to assign ratings like in a video game and if you'd give Jabari an 87, then Wiggins would be like an 85, not a 68 bench player. Switch the jerseys and we'd love Wiggins, not at that price but as 22 yr old scorer that we're trying to coach up on his weaknesses just like Jabari. Just the contract negotiations give an example, general consensus of board is Wiggins' contract is a joke though most admit MN had no choice. Yet there's also a large chunk justifying the same contract with two torn ACLs.

Please move onto something else, I don't know if I can respond tonight anyway. But either way ya'll taking this as a Jabari bash and I'm not even bashing Jabari. I'm saying to be positive for everyone like the general consensus here was. Well I guess it's funny in a way the blowback I'm getting proves my point, I'm not even bashing the guy and people are coming at me defending him and pointing out all his positives while searching for the negs on the other guy.

You came into the thread with a long post and don't expect to have a conversation? No one is attacking you. You actually replied to me earlier on this page, I never quoted you

I just don't see this bias that you do, people liked Jabari more than Wiggins for very valid reasons. Just because a small group of posters always jokes about PPGZZZ players does not mean the whole board actually thinks like that. You judge players on a case by case basis, not clump them together because they both are primarily scorers

And fwiw, I want to trade Jabari. Many people that liked Jabari before probably agree with me. It's called thinking for yourself based on the situation.

Never said anyone was attacking. I said the blowback of people immediately rushing to defend Jabari when I'm not even attacking him.

Judge on a case by case, that's my whole point! I'm saying tons of folks do that for others with the PPG moniker, but since JAbari was our guy we dug deeper. I'm saying that can be done for everyone to find their strengths and how they can be used by a good coach. I've said this like 10 times, I don't know how it's missed and actually being used against me in the discussion.

And yea if you haven't noticed the same themes it is what it is, maybe certain things stick in my head more or whatever. And I totally agree it's a guesstimate and no way to quantify. Just reading this board you see themes or points repeated over a lot of times and I guess one just kind of eyeball tests things on how much you see a point being made or discussed. I've viewed the last 2ish years of Jabari arguing on here as massively supportive of Jabari around a 90% clip which was supported by the poll. And the only way Wiggins is discussed is negatively along with so much PPG jokes and I've been a PPG guy defender in general to find their positives and ways to use them, get them in a better situation with a better coach, coach them to fill a role instead of thinking they're the man etc.

Heck, when I first joined there was a massive Jabari for Lillard debate that was all but like 3 people in support of keeping Jabari. The general consensus was the Jabari was untradeable and you'd have to be an idiot to trade for Dame. Keep in mind this was the beginning of the 15/16 season before he'd even come back from the first ACL and hadn't shown a 3 pointer. One guy was relentlessly made fun of and picked on that he quit posting and the main reason people didn't like Dame was because he was a PPG chucker, lumping him like that instead of seeing all the great stuff he does.