OKC Thunder Offseason: Avengers Assemble

[RalphSampsonJr]

So apparently Matt Pinto said that George playing with the bench and not Anthony will likely continue. He played the most minutes in the preseason because he asked for it according to Pinto.

What do you guys think about that given Donovan said he could see Abrines getting more minutes with the starters and Roberson getting more minutes with the bench?

fan of george playing with the bench. I think Felton and George alone can spearhead a good enough offense to overmatch most bench units.

This way we can stack Melo's minutes with Westbrook's and play Melo's offense where it has been historically and theoretically most effective: as a pure off the ball scorer.

Not a fan of Roberson subbing out early. OKC's current theorethical edge over 1st unities after the Paul George trade is the ability to present a special, elite, physical, hard nosed wing defense to feed off a proven a high octane, physical, elite transition offense. Abrines sacrifices all that edge for an offensive improvement that might be (1) not good enough to compete in a shoot out against top 5 offensive unities and; (2) will come for the sacrifice of our theorethical edge for making our wing defense less suffocating and our transition offense softer and slower. (3) his value drops in late games when we have to overcome a deficit.

If I am Donovan, my first subs in the game, in season opener, would be at 8 minute mark, Westbrook and Melo out, Felton and Abrines or Patterson depending on the match up. Make it a slower and physical game on the opposing wings earlier on, wear them out, beat them out, and them unleash Westbrook's speed on opponents when they are already bullied and on their way to gas out.

Use your defense to feed your offense, goddammit.

Well said!
Could th agree more

[ozwizard8]

So apparently Matt Pinto said that George playing with the bench and not Anthony will likely continue. He played the most minutes in the preseason because he asked for it according to Pinto.

What do you guys think about that given Donovan said he could see Abrines getting more minutes with the starters and Roberson getting more minutes with the bench?

fan of george playing with the bench. I think Felton and George alone can spearhead a good enough offense to overmatch most bench units.

This way we can stack Melo's minutes with Westbrook's and play Melo's offense where it has been historically and theoretically most effective: as a pure off the ball scorer.

Not a fan of Roberson subbing out early. OKC's current theorethical edge over 1st unities after the Paul George trade is the ability to present a special, elite, physical, hard nosed wing defense to feed off a proven a high octane, physical, elite transition offense. Abrines sacrifices all that edge for an offensive improvement that might be (1) not good enough to compete in a shoot out against top 5 offensive unities and; (2) will come for the sacrifice of our theorethical edge for making our wing defense less suffocating and our transition offense softer and slower. (3) his value drops in late games when we have to overcome a deficit.

If I am Donovan, my first subs in the game, in season opener, would be at 8 minute mark, Westbrook and Melo out, Felton and Abrines or Patterson depending on the match up. Make it a slower and physical game on the opposing wings earlier on, wear them out, beat them out, and them unleash Westbrook's speed on opponents when they are already bullied and on their way to gas out.

Use your defense to feed your offense, goddammit.

There is no single true way to go.
Its about how bad Robertson on offense vs how bad Abrines on defense.

If Robertson starts to shoot %32-33 from 3pt line then I'd go with him.
But if he continue to kill spacing on offense I'd look for Abrines. Its 2nd year of Abrines so he might be better on D.

Defense feed offense is only way to go for Memphis, Utah.Its not only way for us.

Having WB+PG+Melo together doesnt mean we can add up their PPG.
There is only one ball. Pairing 3 stars should mean "efficient offense".
When you score easily and efficiently, it automatically helps to put energy on defense.
If Robertson kill spacing he'd kill what Melo brings to this team. Having Melo should help to increase WB and George's FG%.

Similar things can be said for Abrines.
If he is a big liability on defense he should get less minutes. If he takes away from PG and S.Adams good D then we might consider Huestis maybe?
***
Having 2 big men on thk.e court always provided better defensive potential for a team. If you ask me to make a starting 5 to just defend one last ball I'd select a roster like that: K.Leonard-LBJ-Giannis-A.Davis-R.Gobert
Having better defenders makes sense for last plays.

But for a game, for a season it doesnt work anymore.
You need to score efficiently. You need to score with less efforts.
Houston, GSW and many others do this.
Celtics roster wasnt able to rebound or defend the rim but they won many games.
Offense also fuels the defense.

[M2J]

Defense will be key for them , they'll find enough scoring if they hold teams under 100. Especially if they limit the turnovers... that will be the offensive key

How can they play so well defensively and still play pretty close to these teams in the last couple of games? Turnovers

[spearsy23]

Hoping for limited turnovers by a thunder team is like going for an elite defense from D'Antoni

[Dadouv47]

Offensive key will be to move the ball as much as possible (no Iso melo for example). Not that we are used to move the ball in OKC but that's the only way to succeed

[spearsy23]

Offensive key will be to move the ball as much as possible (no Iso melo for example). Not that we are used to move the ball in OKC but that's the only way to succeed

Ball movement is overrated. When you have a point guard like Russ the key should be ball distribution. Leverage his ability to attack to get other guys shots. That means a steady dose of pick and roll, and it should include all of the starters as screeners. It's then up to Russ to find the right guy. Limiting isolation to end of shot clock is also important, because Russ/Melo can both get moderate efficiency shots in isolation at any time, so use those to bail out otherwise poor possessions.

This should be the most responsibility Russ has had as a distributor, and it will be interesting to see how he plays it. We all know Donovan isn't getting anybody good looks or standing up to cut down the isolation, so it's all on Russ.

[ozwizard8]

Offensive key will be to move the ball as much as possible (no Iso melo for example). Not that we are used to move the ball in OKC but that's the only way to succeed

Ball movement is only good when you break balance of defense.
When Curry draw a double team and passes to Klay, if he draws another help defender he can make that extra pass to open Iggy.
Or that player can drive and find the another open shooter etc.

Ball movement is good when you create better chances. If you cant spread the floor well, ball movement going to be dull, not productive.

To be honest, WB is great player, finisher. Its really hard to defend him 1on1. Using him makes sense too.
Iso ball could become effective as long as your guard pass when he gets double.

[spearsy23]

Whoever this Carson dude is that took over locked on thunder from katz just isn't good. Looking for a new podcast to kill some time on the night shift now.

[bondom34]

Whoever this Carson dude is that took over locked on thunder from katz just isn't good. Looking for a new podcast to kill some time on the night shift now.

If you missed it, about 2 weeks ago the Lowe post had Ian Eagle on and it was a really good episode.

[Pillendreher]

They don't call him 'The Truth' for nothing. I'm ready.

Read on Twitter

[Pillendreher]

https://www.sbnation.com/a/nba-preview-2017/okc-thunder-russell-westbrook-nba-preview-2017/

[hardenASG13]

Wow, you guys are going to hate Carmelo Anthony because he's good on offense. It was hard to see that coming. Ibaka was incredibly limited offensively compared to Carmelo Anthony, and obviously still is. Ibaka was a distant 3rd/4th option in his time in okc. Carmelo has always been number one. Similar to kizz fastfists statements that Ryan Anderson and Thad young are better (not as exreme), how good would ibaka have looked in 16 as the go to guy on the Knicks?

You guys realize defenses game plan for the stars of the offense (melo), right?! Melo, while not in his peak, is for the first time a secondary option in an offense, and is one of the most complete scorers of his, or any generation really. Ibaka ate leftovers for years, shooting open jumpers with no post game. I loved What he brought, but come on. You can't possibly think defense is that important, can you? Aside from golden State, and probably new orleans, melo is the best 2a/2b option offensively in the league, and if hes 2b, 2a is Paul George

[spearsy23]

Aside from golden State, and probably new orleans, melo is the best 2a/2b option offensively in the league, and if hes 2b, 2a is Paul George

Ignoring the rest of the post because it's pointless drivel, this is ridiculous. Off the top of my head these teams have better second options than Melo (who is really a third option anyway)
Golden State
NOLA
Cleveland
Boston
Portland
Houston
Washington

[Old Man Game]

This week plus between end of the pre-season and beginning of regular season is my least favorite part of the NBA calendar. I recognize it's important. But it's like torture for us having to wait. Especially this year. Hurry up and get here, next Thursday.

[Dadouv47]

Aside from golden State, and probably new orleans, melo is the best 2a/2b option offensively in the league, and if hes 2b, 2a is Paul George

Ignoring the rest of the post because it's pointless drivel, this is ridiculous. Off the top of my head these teams have better second options than Melo (who is really a third option anyway)
Golden State
NOLA
Cleveland
Boston
Portland
Houston
Washington

You can mention almost the half of the league tbh (Wolves, Toronto, Memphis, Bucks...)

[hardenASG13]

Aside from golden State, and probably new orleans, melo is the best 2a/2b option offensively in the league, and if hes 2b, 2a is Paul George

Ignoring the rest of the post because it's pointless drivel, this is ridiculous. Off the top of my head these teams have better second options than Melo (who is really a third option anyway)
Golden State
NOLA
Cleveland
Boston
Portland
Houston
Washington

Yep, I forgot houston. The others are highly debatable (how would Bradley Beal, cj mccollum and Gordon hayward have looked as the Knicks go to guy?)

Also yes, that's why I said he's either 2a or 2b (the third option). Outside of 2 teams he's as good as it gets in that role, particularly as a third option! It's not just off the top off your head. That's the whole list, and almost all of those are debatable at best. Houston, again, I'll give you, although he is much better than whoever you consider their 3rd option to be. I suppose you could add toronto , if you wanted to say Lowry is a better offensive player, but again that's very debatable.

[Balkman32]

Any roster predictions? Do we carry 14 or 15? Do either Christon or Cannon make this roster? After Abrines, Patterson, and Felton who do you want to see off the bench in close games?

[Dadouv47]

Aside from golden State, and probably new orleans, melo is the best 2a/2b option offensively in the league, and if hes 2b, 2a is Paul George

Ignoring the rest of the post because it's pointless drivel, this is ridiculous. Off the top of my head these teams have better second options than Melo (who is really a third option anyway)
Golden State
NOLA
Cleveland
Boston
Portland
Houston
Washington

Yep, I forgot houston. The others are highly debatable (how would Bradley Beal, cj mccollum and Gordon hayward have looked as the Knicks go to guy?)

Also yes, that's why I said he's either 2a or 2b (the third option). Outside of 2 teams he's as good as it gets in that role, particularly as a third option! It's not just off the top off your head. That's the whole list, and almost all of those are debatable at best. Houston, again, I'll give you, although he is much better than whoever you consider their 3rd option to be. I suppose you could add toronto , if you wanted to say Lowry is a better offensive player, but again that's very debatable.

I think we have to start under the assumption that Carmelo is our 3rd option (it's not fair to PG13 seriously ). Then we can only mention very few teams that have better 3rd options (Golden State and maybe Cleveland basically)

[bbms]

So apparently Matt Pinto said that George playing with the bench and not Anthony will likely continue. He played the most minutes in the preseason because he asked for it according to Pinto.

What do you guys think about that given Donovan said he could see Abrines getting more minutes with the starters and Roberson getting more minutes with the bench?

fan of george playing with the bench. I think Felton and George alone can spearhead a good enough offense to overmatch most bench units.

This way we can stack Melo's minutes with Westbrook's and play Melo's offense where it has been historically and theoretically most effective: as a pure off the ball scorer.

Not a fan of Roberson subbing out early. OKC's current theorethical edge over 1st unities after the Paul George trade is the ability to present a special, elite, physical, hard nosed wing defense to feed off a proven a high octane, physical, elite transition offense. Abrines sacrifices all that edge for an offensive improvement that might be (1) not good enough to compete in a shoot out against top 5 offensive unities and; (2) will come for the sacrifice of our theorethical edge for making our wing defense less suffocating and our transition offense softer and slower. (3) his value drops in late games when we have to overcome a deficit.

If I am Donovan, my first subs in the game, in season opener, would be at 8 minute mark, Westbrook and Melo out, Felton and Abrines or Patterson depending on the match up. Make it a slower and physical game on the opposing wings earlier on, wear them out, beat them out, and them unleash Westbrook's speed on opponents when they are already bullied and on their way to gas out.

Use your defense to feed your offense, goddammit.

There is no single true way to go.
Its about how bad Robertson on offense vs how bad Abrines on defense.

If Robertson starts to shoot %32-33 from 3pt line then I'd go with him.
But if he continue to kill spacing on offense I'd look for Abrines. Its 2nd year of Abrines so he might be better on D.

Defense feed offense is only way to go for Memphis, Utah.Its not only way for us.

Having WB+PG+Melo together doesnt mean we can add up their PPG.
There is only one ball. Pairing 3 stars should mean "efficient offense".
When you score easily and efficiently, it automatically helps to put energy on defense.
If Robertson kill spacing he'd kill what Melo brings to this team. Having Melo should help to increase WB and George's FG%.

Similar things can be said for Abrines.
If he is a big liability on defense he should get less minutes. If he takes away from PG and S.Adams good D then we might consider Huestis maybe?
***
Having 2 big men on thk.e court always provided better defensive potential for a team. If you ask me to make a starting 5 to just defend one last ball I'd select a roster like that: K.Leonard-LBJ-Giannis-A.Davis-R.Gobert
Having better defenders makes sense for last plays.

But for a game, for a season it doesnt work anymore.
You need to score efficiently. You need to score with less efforts.
Houston, GSW and many others do this.
Celtics roster wasnt able to rebound or defend the rim but they won many games.
Offense also fuels the defense.

i get what you're saying. We'll just disagree as my whole point is to seek for elite traits on the team's play (up to this point the only expectation for elite display is honestly, wing defense, offensive rebounding and transition offense) and ride that edges to the maximum. We can't beat the Rockets and Warriors turning games into shootouts imo, we need to set the tone at the few things we do better than them, this was how we won three games against them a year ago: Robes and Durant playing elite defense, Adams playing the bully inside defensively and offensively, everybody murdering the offensive glass and forcing turnovers+transition scoring.

Our roster is nothing scary if we chase marginal edges offensively at the expense of defense, imo. The focus of the regular season should be on getting to that elite level of defensive performance, because that's pretty much our only shot at beating GSW. Are we playing to win championships, or to lose playing pretty ball? Or just waiting for LeBron to sign MLE next season?

[Andre Roberstan]

I'm back—was on a bit of hiatus, but keeping an eye on things again now. Anything fun happen while I was gone?