Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIV

[queridiculo]

There's a good chance there aren't going to be any minutes available for Oubre at the 2.

Meeks is going to get an opportunity to establish himself as the gunner off the bench so Oubre's only chance to play will probably be at the 3 to spell Porter or 3/4 in a lineup featuring them both.

There's two scenarios that I see for Oubre given how this team is setup from a salary cap perspective.

He breaks out, or at least continues to tap into some of his potential, and he's attached to an unprotected pick and either Gortat's or Mahinmi's contract in a trade for another piece to the puzzle, or he continues to show glimpses but only marginal improvement and the trade involving one of our two centers ends up a salary dump.

[nate33]

Any deal for Jordan would have to be one of Gortat or Mahinmi, Smith, a pick and maybe someone like Chris McCullough. Jordan is a liability in the last few minutes of the 4th quarter so they'd just keep fouling him. On top of that, he has an opt out next season so I agree with Nate, you're giving up a player in his early 20s for what amounts to a year rental.

I will say this though, Oubre has to start showing something. There's still another year left on his deal but if he steps up and there's a possibility that he could take Porter's spot I don't see how you don't dangle Otto for Cousins. What would be terrible is if we have to take Asik back. I'd prefer Ajinca b/c he makes a lot less.

Raf,
This is the X-Factor I have debated. What if Oubre takes the next step and Otto continues his success and physical growth?
You would think that opens us up to trade Otto for another piece, but other part of me thinks that is the most dangerous 1-4 in NBA outside of GSW.
If Oubre proves to be legit, then we can give him Gortat and Morris's money and move forward.

It think a breakout from Oubre creates depth rather than a logjam. Just splitting the 2 and 3 between Beal, Oubre and Porter would be 32 minutes per player. A few minutes of Beal at 1 or Porter at 4 would allow 35 minutes per player.

The salary structure would mean essentially going with the "Rent A Center" after Gortats deal. But I think that isn't as big a weakness given the direction the NBA is moving.

Yup. Oubre breaking out doesn't cause any minutes crunch whatsoever. A forward rotation of Porter, Oubre and Morris means that Porter and Oubre can each play 33 minutes, with Morris getting the other 30. Morris sits during crunch time except when we're playing against a guy like Millsap or Griffin.

[payitforward]

Ernie was able to strike gold by attaching a couple 2nds to our last late 1st round pick and draft a core player in Oubre. I would prefer to keep both Oubre and Porter and hope ernie can turn a late 1st into a core big.

If we had the money to re sign Noel I would move the pick for him. Paying 16 mill to a backup center is just so stupid

I don't agree with you on this one.

I would still take Portis and the second round picks.

Well, for starters, it wasn't a "late R1 pick." & the trade wasn't to draft "a core player."

Ernie traded up 4 spots, from #19 to #15, to get a prospect he liked. That's what Oubre was -- & still is: a prospect.

Btw, Atlanta then traded that #19 pick for Tim Hardaway Jr. I.e. for the #15 pick, they got Hardaway & 2 R2 picks. I wouldn't say they did badly, would you?

OTOH, "...still take Portis and the second round picks" is a little bit of hindsight. No one thought Portis would be available at #19; everyone thought he would be going from 16-18. In fact, he dropped to #22.

Portis had a little better rookie year than Oubre, but Oubre had a little better 2d year than Portis. It's a little hard to compare them straight across, b/c they play different positions, & especially b/c Oubre is a year younger than Portis, & he came into the league with much much less experience. -- in truth, neither of them has exactly lit it up yet. But they are both young.

If we are going to use hindsight, as it turns out Ernie (or any GM) would have been a lot better off to trade *down* -- that's where the tremendous value has turned out to be in this draft: Justin Anderson, Tyus Jones, Larry Nance, Montrezl Harrell, Richaun Holmes, Willy Hernangomez....

As I say, it's hindsight, fantasy-land, but what would it have taken to acquire the #s 32, 35 & 37, I wonder? Would our #19 have sufficed? Or, how about this -- would our #19 & the 2 R2 picks we included for Oubre have been enough to bring the #27 & 37 picks, netting us Larry Nance & Richaun Holmes?

Could we trade Oubre for those 2 guys right now? Answer: no way.

Just daydreaming with my fingertips!

[NatP4]

Ernie was able to strike gold by attaching a couple 2nds to our last late 1st round pick and draft a core player in Oubre. I would prefer to keep both Oubre and Porter and hope ernie can turn a late 1st into a core big.

If we had the money to re sign Noel I would move the pick for him. Paying 16 mill to a backup center is just so stupid

I don't agree with you on this one.

I would still take Portis and the second round picks.

Well, for starters, it wasn't a "late R1 pick." & the trade wasn't to draft "a core player."

Ernie traded up 4 spots, from #19 to #15, to get a prospect he liked. That's what Oubre was -- & still is: a prospect.

Btw, Atlanta then traded that #19 pick for Tim Hardaway Jr. I.e. for the #15 pick, they got Hardaway & 2 R2 picks. I wouldn't say they did badly, would you?

OTOH, "...still take Portis and the second round picks" is a little bit of hindsight. No one thought Portis would be available at #19; everyone thought he would be going from 16-18. In fact, he dropped to #22.

Portis had a little better rookie year than Oubre, but Oubre had a little better 2d year than Portis. It's a little hard to compare them straight across, b/c they play different positions, & especially b/c Oubre is a year younger than Portis, & he came into the league with much much less experience. -- in truth, neither of them has exactly lit it up yet. But they are both young.

If we are going to use hindsight, as it turns out Ernie (or any GM) would have been a lot better off to trade *down* -- that's where the tremendous value has turned out to be in this draft: Justin Anderson, Tyus Jones, Larry Nance, Montrezl Harrell, Richaun Holmes, Willy Hernangomez....

As I say, it's hindsight, fantasy-land, but what would it have taken to acquire the #s 32, 35 & 37, I wonder? Would our #19 have sufficed? Or, how about this -- would our #19 & the 2 R2 picks we included for Oubre have been enough to bring the #27 & 37 picks, netting us Larry Nance & Richaun Holmes?

Could we trade Oubre for those 2 guys right now? Answer: no way.

Just daydreaming with my fingertips!

We could easily trade Oubre for either of those players. Thank god Ernie didn't trade down for marginal 2nd round talent

[payitforward]

I don't get any of this "what if..." stuff about KO that would lead to the possibility of trading Otto. Just for starters, Kelly shows no signs of a huge jump (& how could he - in a handful of pre-season games?!!).

Nor has he yet played at the level of Otto's 2d season (i.e. his first season w/ any minutes to speak of - after his rookie injury).

Nor is there any reason to think he has any chance to be as good as Otto Porter, who is an absolutely tremendous player. Never say never (& certainly not in talking about a 22 year old), but it's unlikely to say the least. Otto Porter was the 3d pick in the draft for a reason.

I like Oubre, I think he has potential, I was in favor of the trade, I thought & still think that Ernie made a good move. But it's still an open question whether Kelly Oubre Jr. will ever play at the level of an average NBA starting 3 -- let alone approach Otto's level.

[payitforward]

I don't agree with you on this one.

I would still take Portis and the second round picks.

Well, for starters, it wasn't a "late R1 pick." & the trade wasn't to draft "a core player."

Ernie traded up 4 spots, from #19 to #15, to get a prospect he liked. That's what Oubre was -- & still is: a prospect.

Btw, Atlanta then traded that #19 pick for Tim Hardaway Jr. I.e. for the #15 pick, they got Hardaway & 2 R2 picks. I wouldn't say they did badly, would you?

OTOH, "...still take Portis and the second round picks" is a little bit of hindsight. No one thought Portis would be available at #19; everyone thought he would be going from 16-18. In fact, he dropped to #22.

Portis had a little better rookie year than Oubre, but Oubre had a little better 2d year than Portis. It's a little hard to compare them straight across, b/c they play different positions, & especially b/c Oubre is a year younger than Portis, & he came into the league with much much less experience. -- in truth, neither of them has exactly lit it up yet. But they are both young.

If we are going to use hindsight, as it turns out Ernie (or any GM) would have been a lot better off to trade *down* -- that's where the tremendous value has turned out to be in this draft: Justin Anderson, Tyus Jones, Larry Nance, Montrezl Harrell, Richaun Holmes, Willy Hernangomez....

As I say, it's hindsight, fantasy-land, but what would it have taken to acquire the #s 32, 35 & 37, I wonder? Would our #19 have sufficed? Or, how about this -- would our #19 & the 2 R2 picks we included for Oubre have been enough to bring the #27 & 37 picks, netting us Larry Nance & Richaun Holmes?

Could we trade Oubre for those 2 guys right now? Answer: no way.

Just daydreaming with my fingertips!

We could easily trade Oubre for either of those players. Thank god Ernie didn't trade down for marginal 2nd round talent

That wasn't my question, was it? I asked whether we could trade Oubre for Nance & Holmes. Answer: no.

Perhaps it would be a good idea if you took just enough time to actually read posts, Nat? Larry Nance was taken #27 in that draft, not in R2. Moreover, to date he has been a lot better than Kelly Oubre -- enormously better. Have you bothered looking at his numbers? I didn't think so.

For that matter, Holmes too has been better than Oubre, a lot better. Last year, for example, he had a .61 TS% (Oubre = .51).

The point to make would have been that Oubre is younger than these guys. Fully 3 years younger than Nance. A little more than 2 years younger than Holmes. He was drafted for his potential. Lets see whether he fulfills it. Hope so!

[J-Ves]

I think a breakout season from Oubre lessons the chances of a trade. We already know our starting lineup gets the job done, having a legit 6th man in Oubre plus a healthy Mahinmi plus FA upgrades in Frazier, Meeks and Scott, plus continued great shooting from Smith plus improvement from Sato equals a legit bench. At that point the Wiz would want for nothing(in the short term at least), so it wouldn’t make sense to make major changes.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

He's a safe sex advocate. I can think of worse NBA mentors. At least it wasn't a bowl of roofies.

Yeah that would be worse roofies. ️

Seriously, montestewart, you relieved me. I don't judge but I was thinking maybe RJ was into some real raunchy stuff and maybe I don't want Oubre to be around that.

I feel bad admitting to this.
/url]

Sometimes the best mentor is one who relates a little to what a youngster is facing, rather than going with an oblivious "just say no" approach. Smart parents now counsel their kids on birth control and safe sex. Using a condom does a good job preventing STDs, and also does a good job avoiding paternity suits. Maybe Jefferson is the wise one.

Well said.

As the father of now 15-year old and 17-year old young men, I am learning and upping my parenting game as we "speak". Thanks, monte.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Well, for starters, it wasn't a "late R1 pick." & the trade wasn't to draft "a core player."

Ernie traded up 4 spots, from #19 to #15, to get a prospect he liked. That's what Oubre was -- & still is: a prospect.

Btw, Atlanta then traded that #19 pick for Tim Hardaway Jr. I.e. for the #15 pick, they got Hardaway & 2 R2 picks. I wouldn't say they did badly, would you?

OTOH, "...still take Portis and the second round picks" is a little bit of hindsight. No one thought Portis would be available at #19; everyone thought he would be going from 16-18. In fact, he dropped to #22.

Portis had a little better rookie year than Oubre, but Oubre had a little better 2d year than Portis. It's a little hard to compare them straight across, b/c they play different positions, & especially b/c Oubre is a year younger than Portis, & he came into the league with much much less experience. -- in truth, neither of them has exactly lit it up yet. But they are both young.

If we are going to use hindsight, as it turns out Ernie (or any GM) would have been a lot better off to trade *down* -- that's where the tremendous value has turned out to be in this draft: Justin Anderson, Tyus Jones, Larry Nance, Montrezl Harrell, Richaun Holmes, Willy Hernangomez....

As I say, it's hindsight, fantasy-land, but what would it have taken to acquire the #s 32, 35 & 37, I wonder? Would our #19 have sufficed? Or, how about this -- would our #19 & the 2 R2 picks we included for Oubre have been enough to bring the #27 & 37 picks, netting us Larry Nance & Richaun Holmes?

Could we trade Oubre for those 2 guys right now? Answer: no way.

Just daydreaming with my fingertips!

We could easily trade Oubre for either of those players. Thank god Ernie didn't trade down for marginal 2nd round talent

That wasn't my question, was it? I asked whether we could trade Oubre for Nance & Holmes. Answer: no.

Perhaps it would be a good idea if you took just enough time to actually read posts, Nat? Larry Nance was taken #27 in that draft, not in R2. Moreover, to date he has been a lot better than Kelly Oubre -- enormously better. Have you bothered looking at his numbers? I didn't think so.

For that matter, Holmes too has been better than Oubre, a lot better. Last year, for example, he had a .61 TS% (Oubre = .51).

The point to make would have been that Oubre is younger than these guys. Fully 3 years younger than Nance. A little more than 2 years younger than Holmes. He was drafted for his potential. Lets see whether he fulfills it. Hope so!

Holmes is better than Oubre or Portis.

That is a fluid comparison subject to change...

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[payitforward]

...Holmes is better than Oubre or Portis.

That is a fluid comparison subject to change...

Yup. & Nance is just about equal to Holmes. Equal as a rebounder, not as good a scorer, but a higher bbiq leading to more assists & steals & better defense overall.

But both those guys are tremendous players. They were also tremendous bargains in the 2015 draft.

If you want to compare their numbers to someone, btw, don't pick Oubre: instead, compare them to Otto Porter. Note that Nance, although taken 2 years later, is actually 4 months older than Otto.

Of course, these comparisons are "fluid... subject to change." Not only is Nance, for example, fully 3 years older than Kelly Oubre, but Oubre came into the league having had very little experience playing high-level organized ball. He'd only played @750 minutes at Kansas. Then he only played @670 minutes as an NBA rookie, & - no surprise - he didn't play well at all.

Last year he took a really nice jump in productivity; he still has a long way to go, but no question he has outstanding potential.

[JAR69]

I can't link to it, but Shams C. Tweeted that Portis and Mirotic had an altercation in practice, puttin Mirotic in the hospital.

Read on Twitter

[Illmatic12]

Ernie was able to strike gold by attaching a couple 2nds to our last late 1st round pick and draft a core player in Oubre. I would prefer to keep both Oubre and Porter and hope ernie can turn a late 1st into a core big.

If we had the money to re sign Noel I would move the pick for him. Paying 16 mill to a backup center is just so stupid

I don't agree with you on this one.

I would still take Portis and the second round picks.

Well, for starters, it wasn't a "late R1 pick." & the trade wasn't to draft "a core player."

Ernie traded up 4 spots, from #19 to #15, to get a prospect he liked. That's what Oubre was -- & still is: a prospect.

Btw, Atlanta then traded that #19 pick for Tim Hardaway Jr. I.e. for the #15 pick, they got Hardaway & 2 R2 picks. I wouldn't say they did badly, would you?

OTOH, "...still take Portis and the second round picks" is a little bit of hindsight. No one thought Portis would be available at #19; everyone thought he would be going from 16-18. In fact, he dropped to #22.

Portis had a little better rookie year than Oubre, but Oubre had a little better 2d year than Portis. It's a little hard to compare them straight across, b/c they play different positions, & especially b/c Oubre is a year younger than Portis, & he came into the league with much much less experience. -- in truth, neither of them has exactly lit it up yet. But they are both young.

If we are going to use hindsight, as it turns out Ernie (or any GM) would have been a lot better off to trade *down* -- that's where the tremendous value has turned out to be in this draft: Justin Anderson, Tyus Jones, Larry Nance, Montrezl Harrell, Richaun Holmes, Willy Hernangomez....

As I say, it's hindsight, fantasy-land, but what would it have taken to acquire the #s 32, 35 & 37, I wonder? Would our #19 have sufficed? Or, how about this -- would our #19 & the 2 R2 picks we included for Oubre have been enough to bring the #27 & 37 picks, netting us Larry Nance & Richaun Holmes?

Could we trade Oubre for those 2 guys right now? Answer: no way.

Just daydreaming with my fingertips!

Wonder how many Bobby Portis fans will be left now..

Read on Twitter

[Dat2U]

Portis for McCullough anyone?

[payitforward]

I can't figure out what's going on with Portis. As a Sophomore he put up some gaudy numbers & looked like a can't miss NBA player, likely a very good one. He got to play reasonable minutes as a rookie, but except for rebounding he wasn't good at all. Last year he was better at everything except a little worse at rebounding -- but overall improved.

I expected -- maybe still expect -- a jump from him this year. Don't know what to say about his tiff w/ Mirotic. But... maybe it was Mirotic who should get the blame, despite being in the hospital....

In short -- absolutely! McCullough for Portis all day every day!!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Portis for McCullough anyone?

Hell yeah.

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[dangermouse]

I'd praise Ernie Grunfeld all the way to my last breath if he pulled off that fleecing

Can i just say, this has been one of the most exciting and craziest off seasons ive ever seen....

And now, one of the most memorable and craziest opening nights i have ever seen.

[Ruzious]

Portis for McCullough anyone?

Green font is a friend of the sarcastic.

Might as well see if they'll bite (figuratively) on Jason Smith and a 2nd rounder for Portis. The Wiz don't have much in the way of tradable assets. Actually, why not do a Morris for Portis trade - trade of the bad boys. Morris for Portis and Justin Holliday - Jrue's brother. Justin's been a journeyman, but I think he's a legit solid backup - He's a good long defender, and he developed a 3 point shot. He also shined in the preseason.

[pcbothwel]

Portis for McCullough anyone?

Green font is a friend of the sarcastic.

Might as well see if they'll bite (figuratively) on Jason Smith and a 2nd rounder for Portis. The Wiz don't have much in the way of tradable assets. Actually, why not do a Morris for Portis trade - trade of the bad boys. Morris for Portis and Justin Holliday - Jrue's brother. Justin's been a journeyman, but I think he's a legit solid backup - He's a good long defender, and he developed a 3 point shot. He also shined in the preseason.

Smith was better than Portis last year, and probably this year as well. Obviously age and salary tilt back to Portis, but that trade is not outlandish at all.

[montestewart]

Portis for McCullough anyone?

Hell yeah.
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Sure, just don't sucker punch your teammates.

[Ruzious]

Portis for McCullough anyone?

Green font is a friend of the sarcastic.

Might as well see if they'll bite (figuratively) on Jason Smith and a 2nd rounder for Portis. The Wiz don't have much in the way of tradable assets. Actually, why not do a Morris for Portis trade - trade of the bad boys. Morris for Portis and Justin Holliday - Jrue's brother. Justin's been a journeyman, but I think he's a legit solid backup - He's a good long defender, and he developed a 3 point shot. He also shined in the preseason.

Smith was better than Portis last year, and probably this year as well. Obviously age and salary tilt back to Portis, but that trade is not outlandish at all.

Not outandish, but I'd give the Portis the edge even last season because he's a far better rebounder - though Smith had the edge in scoring efficiency - expect that to change as Portis is improving in that area, and Smith's career efficiency numbers are lower than Portis' last season numbers. Smith's scoring efficiency went WAY up last season - just as his usage and shot attempts were his lowest in 6 years - PIF might want to look into that.