Wilber85 wrote: What is Drummond going to do? I don't see him helping us win games! Dude can't shoot free throws.
Yeah....because he averaged a whole 4 Free Throw Attempts last season makes the fact that he is a league top rebounder and defender null and void. If only he worked on his Free Throws to get those 4 extra points per game he was missing......
Oh wait, he did! Including pre-season games this year, Drummond has been shooting FT's better than BOTH Chandler and Len.
Along working with his passing skills as well.
He is far from a league top defender. He should be a reigning DPOY player. Instead, he's an overwhelming negative on that end. Trading for him would only end up a good situation if he became a + defender. Otherwise, you are paying max money for a rebounder, arguably the least most valuable skill in the game.
As i posted before (I wish RealGM's user post search worked so i could just quote myself):
Once you do that and see Drummond all over the place ranking in the top 20, if you scroll down the page towards the end you will see this:
.......but i guess that Basketball-Reference could have made a mistake...or i guess 2 (1 in both of those Categories). Weird.
**EDIT** For those who cant be bothered to look it up, i screenshotted the entire 2016-2017 League Leaders page and highlighted Drummonds place for you.
Spoiler:
Its #DUMPSTERFIRE SEASON! #TeamTRAINWRECK -KERRSED- The Mod, The Myth, The Legend
carey wrote:Detroit might want to get out of that Drummond contract. It's pretty bad. Not sure what the cost of doing business will be.
I think they definitely wanted to get rid of him and Reggie Jackson last year, and still might. It probably wouldn't take much to get him. But they'd want us or someone else to likely absorb him and take back far less salary to get out of the tax. Like they probably wouldn't want Chandler.
Zach Lowe wrote a week or so ago...
Like, a lot of teams wouldn't touch Andre Drummond's contract, even if they only had to send dead money to get him. On the flip side, teams are loathe to flip talented players -- even overpaid ones -- for someone who will bolt right away. Even Detroit, in tax hell, might not give up Drummond for salary relief alone. (At least not yet.)
But Detroit played pretty well to open up the season and despite Stanley Johnson shooting 0-13, they gave him 40 minutes because they loved his defensive intensity. They made him a starter this year and seem pretty happy with him.
the performance from the Pistons was so all-encompassing that even the usually curmudgeonly Stan Van Gundy seemed pleased with his team's initial effort. Point guard Reggie Jackson showed flashes of the renewed speed and quickness that weren't always there last season as he battled a left knee injury. Drummond scarfed down 13 rebounds and even downed a pair of free throws, much to the delight of the crowd.
Avery Bradley looked steady in his Pistons debut, scoring 15 points. Youngsters Langston Galloway and Henry Ellenson combined for 29 points off the bench. Even Stanley Johnson, who finished the game 0-for-13 from the field -- the most field goal attempts without a make in a season opener in the shot clock era, according to the Elias Sports Bureau -- was praised for his defensive intensity and ability to affect the game in other areas.
I really don't think we'd really want Drummond though. Not with his contract, the way we've said we want to play, and the upcoming draft, where we can probably take a center if we want, even if somehow we don't have a top 5 pick.
Centers are DIRT CHEAP suddenly so it would be ridiculous to take on one of the highest paid ones, particularly one that a coach has wanted to get rid of.
Alan Williams can gobble up rebounds pretty well himself at $5 million a year, as can Alex Len, at least for this year.
I had a few idea wrote up like a week ago (Before Jackson started playing good again).
One was a 3 way with PHX/DET/CLE. Something like:
CLE gets Bledsoe/Chandler - Dont have to wait on IT to heal and since they dont plan on re-inking him to a large deal they get Bledsoe right away and signed for an extra year. With Love now playing C, Thompson is an overpaid bench role, one that Chandler can play for cheaper and a year less. Bledsoe/Wade/Crowder/Lebron/Love
DET gets IT/Thompson/Dudley - Their new All-star PG to bring back some luster to Detroit and put some butts in the seats. They downgrade a bit at C from Drummond to Thompson, but TT is still young and would relish in a new role. Dudley brings a bit of veteran leadership to the D. IT/Bradley/Johnson/Harris/Thompson
PHX gets Drummond/Jackson/Shumpert - A bit of a downgrade at PG, but an amazing upgrade at C. Shumpert comes off the bench at SG (In the Raja/Reed role). Jackson/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Drummond
One of the responses i got back from the Detroit board when i was enquiring about a Drummond trade was:
I'd happily do:
Bledsoe Dudley Chandler + 1 of the firsts McD has coming
For
Dre & RJ
Suns are tanking so taking on RJ doesn't hurt right now and maybe your medical staff can "fix" him. Either way he's not gonna be around when you're relevant anyway and this is all about Dre
For the Pistons? All contracts incoming expire in 2 years - and so does everyone on our roster except Jon, Luke, Henry and whomever we get with whatever first rounder Phoenix gives us.
If that's not a clean slate then I don't know what is.
In the interim Chandler and Dudley can mentor the kids so we don't have to keep trotting Tolliver out there all the time...and the potential of Bledsoe & AB in the backcourt is interesting to me and would be enough reason to watch (at least this season)...and if we're not going OK then we can look to flip either one or both at the deadline for a extra first
Now that was posted 12 days ago, so who knows where they stand on it after the event known as "Worst Opening Night EVER!"
But there are options there.
Its #DUMPSTERFIRE SEASON! #TeamTRAINWRECK -KERRSED- The Mod, The Myth, The Legend
bwgood77 wrote:I really don't think we'd really want Drummond though. Not with his contract, the way we've said we want to play, and the upcoming draft, where we can probably take a center if we want, even if somehow we don't have a top 5 pick.
Centers are DIRT CHEAP suddenly so it would be ridiculous to take on one of the highest paid ones, particularly one that a coach has wanted to get rid of.
Alan Williams can gobble up rebounds pretty well himself at $5 million a year, as can Alex Len, at least for this year.
The Phoenix Suns have been active during the hours leading up to the NBA trade deadline but acting in the role as sellers. The Suns are shopping center Tyson Chandler and guard Brandon Knight, but apparently are having a hard time finding suitors.
Per sources, the Suns have had “exploratory” talks with the Detroit Pistons regarding a trade for Andre Drummond.
The Suns are likely offering a package including Knight, Chandler and may include one of their draft picks and may also add either Alex Len or forward Tj Warren if talks progress.
Drummond, 23, is already one of the NBA’s best big men and would give the Suns another franchise building block to go along with Eric Bledsoe and Devin Booker. Phoenix also desperately needs to shore up it’s defense and with Chandler so important to their defense it is unlikely that the Suns deal the big man for a deal that doesn’t include an elite building block such as Drummond.
According to Sports Illustrated, the Phoenix Suns were in hot pursuit of current Detroit star center Andre Drummond this offseason, potentially keeping open a door for the chance at a move in the near future.
The report offered no details in regards to who or what the Phoenix Suns may have discussed in return for Drummond (although what do you want to bet that Detroit’s wish list, at least this past offseason, began and thus ended with the fourth overall pick). However the Toronto Raptors apparently offered Jonas Valanciunas and the Kings discussed the 10th overall pick.
This connection between the Suns are Drummond is nothing new. For the past season, as the Pistons floundered in the East, rumors circulated early that Drummond may be a trade target and that the Suns were in play. We even speculated on multiple occasions about what the Suns might look to trade for him.
bwgood77 wrote:I really don't think we'd really want Drummond though. Not with his contract, the way we've said we want to play, and the upcoming draft, where we can probably take a center if we want, even if somehow we don't have a top 5 pick.
Centers are DIRT CHEAP suddenly so it would be ridiculous to take on one of the highest paid ones, particularly one that a coach has wanted to get rid of.
Alan Williams can gobble up rebounds pretty well himself at $5 million a year, as can Alex Len, at least for this year.
The Phoenix Suns have been active during the hours leading up to the NBA trade deadline but acting in the role as sellers. The Suns are shopping center Tyson Chandler and guard Brandon Knight, but apparently are having a hard time finding suitors.
Per sources, the Suns have had “exploratory” talks with the Detroit Pistons regarding a trade for Andre Drummond.
The Suns are likely offering a package including Knight, Chandler and may include one of their draft picks and may also add either Alex Len or forward Tj Warren if talks progress.
Drummond, 23, is already one of the NBA’s best big men and would give the Suns another franchise building block to go along with Eric Bledsoe and Devin Booker. Phoenix also desperately needs to shore up it’s defense and with Chandler so important to their defense it is unlikely that the Suns deal the big man for a deal that doesn’t include an elite building block such as Drummond.
According to Sports Illustrated, the Phoenix Suns were in hot pursuit of current Detroit star center Andre Drummond this offseason, potentially keeping open a door for the chance at a move in the near future.
The report offered no details in regards to who or what the Phoenix Suns may have discussed in return for Drummond (although what do you want to bet that Detroit’s wish list, at least this past offseason, began and thus ended with the fourth overall pick). However the Toronto Raptors apparently offered Jonas Valanciunas and the Kings discussed the 10th overall pick.
This connection between the Suns are Drummond is nothing new. For the past season, as the Pistons floundered in the East, rumors circulated early that Drummond may be a trade target and that the Suns were in play. We even speculated on multiple occasions about what the Suns might look to trade for him.
Yeah, I've read all those and the sports illustrated one and I think had we been able to trade Knight and Chandler or even added another player they might have done it, but when the Pistons started shopping him, they probably expected better offers than what they got or they may have parted with him.
It wouldn't totally shock me if we traded for him but I imagine the Pistons would want us to absorb some salary and if they took Bledsoe they would certainly want to unload Jackson to us. And they might ask for Len or Williams. If Len, we'd need his approval and it couldn't happen until December. We'd probably have to add a pick too...maybe not though.
I think if they start off well though, they will keep him for now. I think Phoenix's interest was probably in part because that was maybe a good way to unload Knight back when McD thought Knight had trade value.
The vibe is good though. Eminem stopped by the other night and got the place and the players going. Maybe he'll keep it up.
The Suns SHOULD realize that centers are not worth that amount of money these days, particularly ones that are not superstars or defensive studs like Gobert. I certainly don't want to take on another huge contract like that. We are stuck with Knight's already, and maybe Chandler's and Dudley's.
So you want to trade for Drummond and then draft Ayton? You think those twin towers is the way of the future?
bwgood77 wrote:I really don't think we'd really want Drummond though. Not with his contract, the way we've said we want to play, and the upcoming draft, where we can probably take a center if we want, even if somehow we don't have a top 5 pick.
Centers are DIRT CHEAP suddenly so it would be ridiculous to take on one of the highest paid ones, particularly one that a coach has wanted to get rid of.
Alan Williams can gobble up rebounds pretty well himself at $5 million a year, as can Alex Len, at least for this year.
Spoiler:
The Phoenix Suns have been active during the hours leading up to the NBA trade deadline but acting in the role as sellers. The Suns are shopping center Tyson Chandler and guard Brandon Knight, but apparently are having a hard time finding suitors.
Per sources, the Suns have had “exploratory” talks with the Detroit Pistons regarding a trade for Andre Drummond.
The Suns are likely offering a package including Knight, Chandler and may include one of their draft picks and may also add either Alex Len or forward Tj Warren if talks progress.
Drummond, 23, is already one of the NBA’s best big men and would give the Suns another franchise building block to go along with Eric Bledsoe and Devin Booker. Phoenix also desperately needs to shore up it’s defense and with Chandler so important to their defense it is unlikely that the Suns deal the big man for a deal that doesn’t include an elite building block such as Drummond.
According to Sports Illustrated, the Phoenix Suns were in hot pursuit of current Detroit star center Andre Drummond this offseason, potentially keeping open a door for the chance at a move in the near future.
The report offered no details in regards to who or what the Phoenix Suns may have discussed in return for Drummond (although what do you want to bet that Detroit’s wish list, at least this past offseason, began and thus ended with the fourth overall pick). However the Toronto Raptors apparently offered Jonas Valanciunas and the Kings discussed the 10th overall pick.
This connection between the Suns are Drummond is nothing new. For the past season, as the Pistons floundered in the East, rumors circulated early that Drummond may be a trade target and that the Suns were in play. We even speculated on multiple occasions about what the Suns might look to trade for him.
Yeah, I've read all those and the sports illustrated one and I think had we been able to trade Knight and Chandler or even added another player they might have done it, but when the Pistons started shopping him, they probably expected better offers than what they got or they may have parted with him.
It wouldn't totally shock me if we traded for him but I imagine the Pistons would want us to absorb some salary and if they took Bledsoe they would certainly want to unload Jackson to us. And they might ask for Len or Williams. If Len, we'd need his approval and it couldn't happen until December. We'd probably have to add a pick too...maybe not though.
I think if they start off well though, they will keep him for now. I think Phoenix's interest was probably in part because that was maybe a good way to unload Knight back when McD thought Knight had trade value.
The vibe is good though. Eminem stopped by the other night and got the place and the players going. Maybe he'll keep it up.
The Suns SHOULD realize that centers are not worth that amount of money these days, particularly ones that are not superstars or defensive studs like Gobert. I certainly don't want to take on another huge contract like that. We are stuck with Knight's already, and maybe Chandler's and Dudley's.
So you want to trade for Drummond and then draft Ayton? You think those twin towers is the way of the future?
I posted that as a response that "We'd really want Drummond though and/or Not with his contract or because of how we want to play". It establishes that we do/have had interest in him for years now, and on his current contract, and the Suns going after him has been documented up to the offseason.
As for the rest, Im sure Len would love the chance to be a starter in Detroit. Add a pick? I'd be fine adding in the Miami 1st. I dont know about Detroits vibe though, 1st game of the season and first game in the new arena......and they sold less than 10K tickets. Eminem couldnt even save them, but it was dope to hear Em at the beginning of the game.
Now for the Drummond and/or Ayton scenario. I honestly dont know what to do. We need talent. This looks like a top 4 draft. Will we land one of those picks? Who knows....knowing our luck we get #5. I think Ayton has the potential to be a great C, but it looks like Porter is the consensus #1 guy. We know that no matter what we need a C, whether it be in Drummond or through the draft. If we get Drummond, it opens up the possibility of us using that draft pick elsewhere on another player at another position, or we could still use that pick to trade for another star player, like we almost did with Irving or Porzingis.
Looking at some of the draft sites, you have Ayton, Bamba, and a really raw Richards as really the only C's in the lotto. You got a couple SF's (Porter/Doncic/Knox), a couple of PG's (Sexton/Peters), and then a slew of PF's (Bagley/Jackson Jr./Carter/Williams). If we dont get Drummond when we have an opportunity, i feel that it gives another team the chance to get him before us (say if we tried in the offseason), but also kinda pigeonholes us in the draft a bit more, as WE NEED A CENTER, and the FA crop of C's in 2018 really leaves something to be desired, as we know that we will have a hard time drawing the few good star C's to our team no matter how much money we waive in their face.
So pretty much i would go one step at a time. Trade for Drummond now and worry about who are we going to draft after the lottery. We can always grab whoever our scouts deem as BPA, then figure out what to do from there. But you dont skip out on the talented young C that you need because you might (just might) have a slim shot at Ayton. We could be out tanked. We could have a bad ping pong ball drop. Ayton could suffer a bad injury. Bird in hand, then worry about grabbing some bush later.
Its #DUMPSTERFIRE SEASON! #TeamTRAINWRECK -KERRSED- The Mod, The Myth, The Legend
Yeah, I've read all those and the sports illustrated one and I think had we been able to trade Knight and Chandler or even added another player they might have done it, but when the Pistons started shopping him, they probably expected better offers than what they got or they may have parted with him.
It wouldn't totally shock me if we traded for him but I imagine the Pistons would want us to absorb some salary and if they took Bledsoe they would certainly want to unload Jackson to us. And they might ask for Len or Williams. If Len, we'd need his approval and it couldn't happen until December. We'd probably have to add a pick too...maybe not though.
I think if they start off well though, they will keep him for now. I think Phoenix's interest was probably in part because that was maybe a good way to unload Knight back when McD thought Knight had trade value.
The vibe is good though. Eminem stopped by the other night and got the place and the players going. Maybe he'll keep it up.
The Suns SHOULD realize that centers are not worth that amount of money these days, particularly ones that are not superstars or defensive studs like Gobert. I certainly don't want to take on another huge contract like that. We are stuck with Knight's already, and maybe Chandler's and Dudley's.
So you want to trade for Drummond and then draft Ayton? You think those twin towers is the way of the future?
I posted that as a response that "We'd really want Drummond though and/or Not with his contract or because of how we want to play". It establishes that we do/have had interest in him for years now, and on his current contract, and the Suns going after him has been documented up to the offseason.
As for the rest, Im sure Len would love the chance to be a starter in Detroit. Add a pick? I'd be fine adding in the Miami 1st. I dont know about Detroits vibe though, 1st game of the season and first game in the new arena......and they sold less than 10K tickets. Eminem couldnt even save them, but it was dope to hear Em at the beginning of the game.
Now for the Drummond and/or Ayton scenario. I honestly dont know what to do. We need talent. This looks like a top 4 draft. Will we land one of those picks? Who knows....knowing our luck we get #5. I think Ayton has the potential to be a great C, but it looks like Porter is the consensus #1 guy. We know that no matter what we need a C, whether it be in Drummond or through the draft. If we get Drummond, it opens up the possibility of us using that draft pick elsewhere on another player at another position, or we could still use that pick to trade for another star player, like we almost did with Irving or Porzingis.
Looking at some of the draft sites, you have Ayton, Bamba, and a really raw Richards as really the only C's in the lotto. You got a couple SF's (Porter/Doncic/Knox), a couple of PG's (Sexton/Peters), and then a slew of PF's (Bagley/Jackson Jr./Carter/Williams). If we dont get Drummond when we have an opportunity, i feel that it gives another team the chance to get him before us (say if we tried in the offseason), but also kinda pigeonholes us in the draft a bit more, as WE NEED A CENTER, and the FA crop of C's in 2018 really leaves something to be desired, as we know that we will have a hard time drawing the few good star C's to our team no matter how much money we waive in their face.
So pretty much i would go one step at a time. Trade for Drummond now and worry about who are we going to draft after the lottery. We can always grab whoever our scouts deem as BPA, then figure out what to do from there. But you dont skip out on the talented young C that you need because you might (just might) have a slim shot at Ayton. We could be out tanked. We could have a bad ping pong ball drop. Ayton could suffer a bad injury. Bird in hand, then worry about grabbing some bush later.
I think true centers are a dying breed anyway, so I'm not all that concerned anyway. Most of the valuable ones can shoot 3s, or are dominant defensively and with blocks, or both. Drummond isn't as good at either of those things, AND makes a ton. I'd rather save the money and stick with Williams and if we needed moe either pay Len a little more next offseason or sign another one of the free agents. Most ALL the best teams rarely play a traditional center. Which top teams play a traditional center a lot? None of them. It's not a necessity, and it's definitely not something you want to put a lot of money into unless you are talking a Towns/Embiid/AD/Gobert/Jokic type talent. Maybe Cousins. Cousins is a FA too and if he DID want to come here we could probably figure a way to clear out cap space, but not if we got Drummond. I don't really care to get Cousins much but Drummond will kill any flexibility we have.
As for our interest, yes I think we were interested with Knight and Chandler because we send out equal money and worse players. Outside of that, I don't know. Nothing really makes sense for them though with us, unless we take both Jackson and Drummond, give up Bledsoe and probably a young C. But they'd probably also want a young player or pick. I guess I already said all that.
Robert Williams is a C isn't he? The thing is, we already have 3 centers and then a couple young guys we will likely continue to try at C in small ball units so I don't see it as something we need to do now anyway since we are developing and figuring things out.
As for the draft, I can't know who I want until I see what happens in the college season. I'm not going to base anything on high school hype. If I did, it would be Bagley though. But for now, Doncic being proven, and being another guy who can pass, shoot 3s, and do it all, I don't think he should be behind anyone until they prove themselves a bit in college against good competition.
And what do you mean Eminem couldn't save them? They won and are 1-0.
Really? You think Detroit would do that? An overpaid washed up vet and a decent combo guard for two young quality prospects?
You haven't learned the philosophy here? Other teams want to trade good players or prospects for our not so good players that are overpaid.
Oh, and stars on teams that are just outside of the playoffs are probably disgruntled, so they're probably hoping to become Phoenix Suns.
Since Bled and Drummond are pretty much equal, I fail to see how it's a bad trade. Pretty sure Stanley hasn't done anything since he's been in the league. The numbers work. IDK.
jcsunsfan wrote: Really? You think Detroit would do that? An overpaid washed up vet and a decent combo guard for two young quality prospects?
You haven't learned the philosophy here? Other teams want to trade good players or prospects for our not so good players that are overpaid.
Oh, and stars on teams that are just outside of the playoffs are probably disgruntled, so they're probably hoping to become Phoenix Suns.
Since Bled and Drummond are pretty much equal, I fail to see how it's a bad trade. Pretty sure Stanley hasn't done anything since he's been in the league. The numbers work. IDK.
What's with the snark, man?
Snark? My comments were just in general about all the trade ideas. If Bled and Drummond are equal, ok, but they already are paying a starting pg who, when healthy, puts up decent numbers, so that doesn't make sense. And them giving up on Stanley would be like us giving up on Booker. He was drafted higher due to more upside and although Booker has played better to date, I doubt they'd throw him in and take back Chandler.
bwgood77 wrote: You haven't learned the philosophy here? Other teams want to trade good players or prospects for our not so good players that are overpaid.
Oh, and stars on teams that are just outside of the playoffs are probably disgruntled, so they're probably hoping to become Phoenix Suns.
Since Bled and Drummond are pretty much equal, I fail to see how it's a bad trade. Pretty sure Stanley hasn't done anything since he's been in the league. The numbers work. IDK.
What's with the snark, man?
Snark? My comments were just in general about all the trade ideas. If Bled and Drummond are equal, ok, but they already are paying a starting pg who, when healthy, puts up decent numbers, so that doesn't make sense. And them giving up on Stanley would be like us giving up on Booker. He was drafted higher due to more upside and although Booker has played better to date, I doubt they'd throw him in and take back Chandler.
I thought they pretty much gave up on Stanley? My bad if that's not the case. I'd take back Ish. Would that be fairer? Just throwing it out there. Could be other moving parts considering we have 5 picks this year.
ginobiliflops wrote: Since Bled and Drummond are pretty much equal, I fail to see how it's a bad trade. Pretty sure Stanley hasn't done anything since he's been in the league. The numbers work. IDK.
What's with the snark, man?
Snark? My comments were just in general about all the trade ideas. If Bled and Drummond are equal, ok, but they already are paying a starting pg who, when healthy, puts up decent numbers, so that doesn't make sense. And them giving up on Stanley would be like us giving up on Booker. He was drafted higher due to more upside and although Booker has played better to date, I doubt they'd throw him in and take back Chandler.
I thought they pretty much gave up on Stanley? My bad if that's not the case. I'd take back Ish. Would that be fairer? Just throwing it out there. Could be other moving parts considering we have 5 picks this year.
Ish would make sense, though they would probably want to unload Reggie's contract, especially if they took on Chandler.
