NBA's 50 Greatest - the revised list

[Samurai]

ESPN has updated the list of the 50 greatest players, originally voted on in 1997 for the 50th anniversary. The link to the revised list is here:
http://theundefeated.com/features/nba-50-greatest-players-remix/?addata=espn:nba:index

In essence, the following 14 players from the past 20 years were added:

Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant, Stephen Curry, Tim Duncan, Kevin Durant, Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson, LeBron James, Jason Kidd, Reggie Miller, Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, Paul Pierce, Dwyane Wade.

To make room for them, the following "old-timers" were removed:

Nate Archibald, Dave Bing, Dave Cowens, Dave DeBusschere, Clyde Drexler, Sam Jones, Pete Maravich, Robert Parish, Dolph Schayes, Bill Sharman, Wes Unseld, Bill Walton, Lenny Wilkens, James Worthy.

Bill Walton, one of those who were cut, lobbied to expand the 50 greatest list to the 70 greatest since this is the league's 70th anniversary. But ultimately the decision was made to keep the list at 50, thus requiring the cuts.

As a fan who saw all the old-timers that were cut play (outside of Sharman and Schayes), I figured my initial reaction would be outrage at these "young kids" taking the place of legends. But looking at their list, I really don't see any that I feel strongly was a mistake. It was interesting to read about some of their deliberations, such as some of the voters disagreed with Curry's selection after only 8 seasons, recalling the big controversy of picking Shaq back in 1997 after only 4 seasons. And that Monroe was on the bubble as some voters felt his stats were fairly pedestrian for a all-time great but he was ultimately spared as the voters who remember his impact on the game at that time prevailed. In another 20 years, there may not be any voters who saw some of these older legends play.

Anyway, I thought the new list might generate some interesting discussion and comparisons between some of the new additions and those they displaced.

[Dr Positivity]

Drexler off the list??? While players like Monroe, Lucas, Greer, Iverson are on there. Write-up reveals Iverson was unanimous... While Nash and Curry in top 5 was fiercely debated. CP3 doesn't even get a name-drop as a candidate. That means they think AI > all of Nash, Curry, CP3... Yeah

[celtics543]

Apparently if your name was Dave they took you off the list.

[Samurai]

Apparently if your name was Dave they took you off the list.

Evidently the Admiral didn't get that memo!

[celtics543]

Apparently if your name was Dave they took you off the list.

Evidently the Admiral didn't get that memo!

He went by David. They were fine. Bad day to be a Dave.

[dhsilv2]

A bit surprised by Ray Allen being added. Drexler is the only drop that gives me real pause.

[eminence]

My boy Schayes

[Soulcatcher33]

So they dropped Drexler and added the inferior Reggie? ...okay. I have a hard time believing there is anyone (unless they are biased) that believes Reggie is a greater player than Drexler. That's just absurd. No mention of CP3 is also a complete insult to him.

[TheSheriff]

Seems like they all agreed to cut Monroe, but did not. Personally, Tiny, Cowens, Drexler, Schayes, Walton, Sam Jones, and others should be on the list above Monroe.

[cpower]

Drexler off the list??? While players like Monroe, Lucas, Greer, Iverson are on there. Write-up reveals Iverson was unanimous... While Nash and Curry in top 5 was fiercely debated. CP3 doesn't even get a name-drop as a candidate. That means they think AI > all of Nash, Curry, CP3... Yeah

That's always been the narratives from the NBA players and coaches that AI rivalries Kobe.It may take them another 20 years to change the view.

[DavidSterned]

IMO Allen, Reggie, and Iverson are all somewhat dubious additions. Pierce is debatable.

Drexler, Schayes, Parish, and probably Cowens/Wilkens/Jones have just as good of arguments.

[Winsome Gerbil]

They dropped Clyde Drexler to make room for Ray Allen.

And ESPN wonders why it's growing increasingly irrelevant.

[ThaRegul8r]

Bill Walton, one of those who were cut, lobbied to expand the 50 greatest list to the 70 greatest since this is the league's 70th anniversary. But ultimately the decision was made to keep the list at 50, thus requiring the cuts.

That's what I'd been saying when people were talking about updating it on the internet.

50 wasn't just an arbitrary number, it was explicitly done to correspond with the 50th anniversary of the NBA's history. An update should expand to 70 if the intent is to expand on that theme.

But since ESPN did it's Top 100 a couple of years ago, I don't see the point. Just halve your own list that you did, and you already have your 50 greatest.

Actually, after reading it, this is The Undefeated's list, not ESPN's list. An ESPN writer was named as one of their staff taking part in it, but, again, this is The Undefeated's list at theundefeated.com, not ESPN's list. That didn't make sense to me, that ESPN would "revise" the Top 50 list when they already published their own AllTime #NBArank list.

They dropped Clyde Drexler to make room for Ray Allen.

And ESPN wonders why it's growing increasingly irrelevant.

To reiterate for the sake of accuracy, this is theundefeated.com's list, not ESPN's. As said above, seeing how ESPN just recently voted on a list, it wouldn't make sense to make some dramatic "revision" of the 50th anniversary list when they already published a Top 50 list with an additional 50 more a couple years ago.

Nearly 20 members of The Undefeated staff — led by senior NBA writer Marc Spears and senior writer/columnist Mike Wise, with a combined 45 years of experience covering the league — have updated the NBA’s official 50 Greatest Players list from 1996 with our own version: The Undefeated’s Top 50 NBA Players of All Time.

It's explicitly stated right there in the linked article before you even get to any list.

[Samurai]

Actually, after reading it, this is The Undefeated's list, not ESPN's list.

Good catch. I had assumed it was from ESPN since it was linked from their homepage but the actual website is from The Undefeated.

[Winsome Gerbil]

They dropped Clyde Drexler to make room for Ray Allen.

And ESPN wonders why it's growing increasingly irrelevant.

To reiterate for the sake of accuracy, this is theundefeated.com's list, not ESPN's. As said above, seeing how ESPN just recently voted on a list, it wouldn't make sense to make some dramatic "revision" of the 50th anniversary list when they already published a Top 50 list with an additional 50 more a couple years ago.

Nearly 20 members of The Undefeated staff — led by senior NBA writer Marc Spears and senior writer/columnist Mike Wise, with a combined 45 years of experience covering the league — have updated the NBA’s official 50 Greatest Players list from 1996 with our own version: The Undefeated’s Top 50 NBA Players of All Time.

It's explicitly stated right there in the linked article before you even get to any list.

Ok, got it.

[Doctor MJ]

ESPN has updated the list of the 50 greatest players, originally voted on in 1997 for the 50th anniversary. The link to the revised list is here:
http://theundefeated.com/features/nba-50-greatest-players-remix/?addata=espn:nba:index

In essence, the following 14 players from the past 20 years were added:

Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant, Stephen Curry, Tim Duncan, Kevin Durant, Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson, LeBron James, Jason Kidd, Reggie Miller, Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, Paul Pierce, Dwyane Wade.

To make room for them, the following "old-timers" were removed:

Nate Archibald, Dave Bing, Dave Cowens, Dave DeBusschere, Clyde Drexler, Sam Jones, Pete Maravich, Robert Parish, Dolph Schayes, Bill Sharman, Wes Unseld, Bill Walton, Lenny Wilkens, James Worthy.

Bill Walton, one of those who were cut, lobbied to expand the 50 greatest list to the 70 greatest since this is the league's 70th anniversary. But ultimately the decision was made to keep the list at 50, thus requiring the cuts.

As a fan who saw all the old-timers that were cut play (outside of Sharman and Schayes), I figured my initial reaction would be outrage at these "young kids" taking the place of legends. But looking at their list, I really don't see any that I feel strongly was a mistake. It was interesting to read about some of their deliberations, such as some of the voters disagreed with Curry's selection after only 8 seasons, recalling the big controversy of picking Shaq back in 1997 after only 4 seasons. And that Monroe was on the bubble as some voters felt his stats were fairly pedestrian for a all-time great but he was ultimately spared as the voters who remember his impact on the game at that time prevailed. In another 20 years, there may not be any voters who saw some of these older legends play.

Anyway, I thought the new list might generate some interesting discussion and comparisons between some of the new additions and those they displaced.

I agree with every inclusion except Iverson, and realistically I can't claim any kind of surprise that Iverson was a lock to them. He's an MVP who was the NBA fashion icon for a time. He's absolutely icon. He also happened to undermine most of the good he did with bad habits and a closed-mind which makes him nowhere near Top 50 in on-court impact created, but I can live with them having a bias in this way so long as it's only for rare cases.

I will say that there are some on the list who I'd have dropped before some of those who were dropped, and that there are some who have been on neither list who I'd say should have been.

[Morb]

I won RINGS!!!1 *khkh* Ring!

[Samurai]

I agree with every inclusion except Iverson, and realistically I can't claim any kind of surprise that Iverson was a lock to them. He's an MVP who was the NBA fashion icon for a time. He's absolutely icon. He also happened to undermine most of the good he did with bad habits and a closed-mind which makes him nowhere near Top 50 in on-court impact created, but I can live with them having a bias in this way so long as it's only for rare cases.

I will say that there are some on the list who I'd have dropped before some of those who were dropped, and that there are some who have been on neither list who I'd say should have been.

I am not a big AI fan but I'm also not surprised that he was selected. Earl Monroe was close to being cut, but ultimately stayed on the list. And it sounds like it was because enough voters recognized Black Jesus was an icon in his day. And he was an icon with many nicknames besides Black Jesus (Black Magic, Einstein, The Lord's Prayer, Thomas Edison). Iverson was also an icon (The Answer, Bubba Chuck, Jewelz, The Third Degree) who, like the Pearl many years ago, came up with moves that were revolutionary at the time. So I can see some consistency in the voters' logic that if they were keeping Monroe, then it is conceivable that AI could also make the list.

I think my only nit is that I would have kept Drexler over Greer. I could also see keeping Clyde over Ray Allen or Paul Pierce (its close for me) but I would take all three over Greer.

I would guess the next five on the chopping block when a new group of modern players is included would be Greer, Monroe, Cunningham, Reed and Lucas. Personally I would include Cousy before some of them, but I am guessing he will be protected as a pioneer/icon.

[dhsilv2]

Bill Walton, one of those who were cut, lobbied to expand the 50 greatest list to the 70 greatest since this is the league's 70th anniversary. But ultimately the decision was made to keep the list at 50, thus requiring the cuts.

That's what I'd been saying when people were talking about updating it on the internet.

50 wasn't just an arbitrary number, it was explicitly done to correspond with the 50th anniversary of the NBA's history. An update should expand to 70 if the intent is to expand on that theme.

But since ESPN did it's Top 100 a couple of years ago, I don't see the point. Just halve your own list that you did, and you already have your 50 greatest.

Actually, after reading it, this is The Undefeated's list, not ESPN's list. An ESPN writer was named as one of their staff taking part in it, but, again, this is The Undefeated's list at theundefeated.com, not ESPN's list. That didn't make sense to me, that ESPN would "revise" the Top 50 list when they already published their own AllTime #NBArank list.

They dropped Clyde Drexler to make room for Ray Allen.

And ESPN wonders why it's growing increasingly irrelevant.

To reiterate for the sake of accuracy, this is theundefeated.com's list, not ESPN's. As said above, seeing how ESPN just recently voted on a list, it wouldn't make sense to make some dramatic "revision" of the 50th anniversary list when they already published a Top 50 list with an additional 50 more a couple years ago.

Nearly 20 members of The Undefeated staff — led by senior NBA writer Marc Spears and senior writer/columnist Mike Wise, with a combined 45 years of experience covering the league — have updated the NBA’s official 50 Greatest Players list from 1996 with our own version: The Undefeated’s Top 50 NBA Players of All Time.

It's explicitly stated right there in the linked article before you even get to any list.

It's the undefeated just another spin of ESPN? It's still espn functionally I thought.

[Red Skies]

Too many players from the 1970s and earlier and too many players from the 2000s and later. Any top 50 list worth its credibility should have at least 40 players who peaked in the 1980s and 1990s, the consensus golden age of the game. 45 even is good.