10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz

bbms · Post #61 » by **bbms** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:45 pm

Our team lose structure and discipline as soon as Roberson leaves the game...

2nd half defense was not good.

Should have played more Patterson and Adams together.

Paul George made some nice clutch plays, too bad the Thunder didn't build on the small momentum he created in the 3rd quarter.

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Post #62 » by **ThunderBolt** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:53 pm

Missing easy shots isn’t just due to ann off nights. It’s about game flow, or lack of it. It will continue to happen as long as Donovan is here.

Atomic Punk · Post #63 » by **Atomic Punk** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:43 pm

Knrstz wrote:I refuse to vote. Fire Donovan now if we want to have any shot at keeping George.

Fine, who replaces him?

getrichordie · Post #64 » by **getrichordie** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:15 pm

Man, there are a lot of overreactions here. Give it time, guys. It was the second damn game of the regular season. EIGHTY, I repeat, 80 more games to go. New York wasn’t much of a challenge. Utah was. The team will grow from this and learn from their mistakes.

I don’t know how many times we’ve seen great teams get off to a bad start and that’s not only in the NBA that’s in sports period.

We added Melo, George, Patterson, Felton and Ferguson. That’s 5 players to assimilate.

Had our main guys been shooting just a touch better, we win this game.

It’s. going. to. take. time.

Anyone remember the big 3 in Miami?

I rest my case.

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Atomic Punk · Post #65 » by **Atomic Punk** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:44 pm

Knrstz wrote:Missing easy shots isn’t just due to ann off nights. It’s about game flow, or lack of it. It will continue to happen as long as Donovan is here.

Again, who is available right now that would justify firing the head coach 2 games into the season? This team has enough talent to overcome questionable rotations and decisions to win 50 + games and secure a top 4 seed. Unless this team just completely slides off the rails, there is no way in hell Donovan gets fired mid season. Now, in the off season, if Russ and Melo and PG go to Presti and say " We want to keep playing together and we all want to stay here but, Donovan has to go" then yeah, different story.

getrichordie · Post #66 » by **getrichordie** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:52 pm

Atomic Punk wrote:
Knrstz wrote:Missing easy shots isn’t just due to ann off nights. It’s about game flow, or lack of it. It will continue to happen as long as Donovan is here.

Again, who is available right now that would justify firing the head coach 2 games into the season? This team has enough talent to overcome questionable rotations and decisions to win 50 + games and secure a top 4 seed. Unless this team just completely slides off the rails, there is no way in hell Donovan gets fired mid season. Now, in the off season, if Russ and Melo and PG go to Presti and say " We want to keep playing together and we all want to stay here but, Donovan has to go" then yeah, different story.

I think people just don't want Donovan experimenting with lineups. I genuinely think Donovan wants to see how certain guys respond and handle certain situations when they are thrown in the game. It wouldn't surprise me if one of his philosophies is that players don't grow from staying in their role. They grow by getting uncomfortable and doing something they aren't used to doing.

Atomic Punk · Post #67 » by **Atomic Punk** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:55 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Atomic Punk wrote:
Knrstz wrote:Missing easy shots isn’t just due to ann off nights. It’s about game flow, or lack of it. It will continue to happen as long as Donovan is here.

Again, who is available right now that would justify firing the head coach 2 games into the season? This team has enough talent to overcome questionable rotations and decisions to win 50 + games and secure a top 4 seed. Unless this team just completely slides off the rails, there is no way in hell Donovan gets fired mid season. Now, in the off season, if Russ and Melo and PG go to Presti and say " We want to keep playing together and we all want to stay here but, Donovan has to go" then yeah, different story.

I think people just don't want Donovan experimenting with lineups. I genuinely think Donovan wants to see how certain guys respond and handle certain situations when they are thrown in the game. It wouldn't surprise me if one of his philosophies is that players don't grow from staying in their role. They grow by getting uncomfortable and doing something they aren't used to doing.

Look, he often has me scratching my head but, to be fair, look at what he has had to deal with roster and talent wise his first three seasons. It takes time to adjust to all of the changes.

Post #68 » by **ThunderBolt** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:57 pm

Atomic Punk wrote:
Knrstz wrote:Missing easy shots isn’t just due to ann off nights. It’s about game flow, or lack of it. It will continue to happen as long as Donovan is here.

Again, who is available right now that would justify firing the head coach 2 games into the season? This team has enough talent to overcome questionable rotations and decisions to win 50 + games and secure a top 4 seed. Unless this team just completely slides off the rails, there is no way in hell Donovan gets fired mid season. Now, in the off season, if Russ and Melo and PG go to Presti and say " We want to keep playing together and we all want to stay here but, Donovan has to go" then yeah, different story.

Likely mid season we wouldn’t hire anyone off another staff. If the offense doesn’t improve then I’m ok with letting an assistant have a shot at it like brooks was given after PJ was fired. I don’t expect Donovan will be fired. I just don’t know what Billy does well that is maximizing our players abilities.

Atomic Punk · Post #69 » by **Atomic Punk** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:05 pm

Knrstz wrote:
Atomic Punk wrote:
Knrstz wrote:Missing easy shots isn’t just due to ann off nights. It’s about game flow, or lack of it. It will continue to happen as long as Donovan is here.

Again, who is available right now that would justify firing the head coach 2 games into the season? This team has enough talent to overcome questionable rotations and decisions to win 50 + games and secure a top 4 seed. Unless this team just completely slides off the rails, there is no way in hell Donovan gets fired mid season. Now, in the off season, if Russ and Melo and PG go to Presti and say " We want to keep playing together and we all want to stay here but, Donovan has to go" then yeah, different story.

Likely mid season we wouldn’t hire anyone off another staff. If the offense doesn’t improve then I’m ok with letting an assistant have a shot at it like brooks was given after PJ was fired. I don’t expect Donovan will be fired. I just don’t know what Billy does well that is maximizing our players abilities.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here but, let an assistant have a shot at it? Really? PJ was never anything more than a stop gap for a lame duck team. I doubt that the Thunder view Donavan the same way. Like I said, barring a complete meltdown and/or player revolt, the head coach isn't going anywhere this year.

Post #70 » by **ThunderBolt** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:10 pm

Atomic Punk wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
Atomic Punk wrote:
Again, who is available right now that would justify firing the head coach 2 games into the season? This team has enough talent to overcome questionable rotations and decisions to win 50 + games and secure a top 4 seed. Unless this team just completely slides off the rails, there is no way in hell Donovan gets fired mid season. Now, in the off season, if Russ and Melo and PG go to Presti and say " We want to keep playing together and we all want to stay here but, Donovan has to go" then yeah, different story.

Likely mid season we wouldn’t hire anyone off another staff. If the offense doesn’t improve then I’m ok with letting an assistant have a shot at it like brooks was given after PJ was fired. I don’t expect Donovan will be fired. I just don’t know what Billy does well that is maximizing our players abilities.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here but, let an assistant have a shot at it? Really? PJ was never anything more than a stop gap for a lame duck team. I doubt that the Thunder view Donavan the same way. Like I said, barring a complete meltdown and/or player revolt, the head coach isn't going anywhere this year.

There isn’t a d-league for coaches so I can’t go and look and tell you who would be a better option from available candidates. I do know there are better options out there. I can’t give you a guy that I can guarantee will be better. I just know there are plenty of guys who could do better. It shouldn’t be that hard to figure out rotations and run a competent offense. You’re right that we aren’t making a coaching change any time soon.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/presents18986226/five-nba-coaching-prospects-watch

Atomic Punk · Post #71 » by **Atomic Punk** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:18 pm

Knrstz wrote:
Atomic Punk wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
Likely mid season we wouldn’t hire anyone off another staff. If the offense doesn’t improve then I’m ok with letting an assistant have a shot at it like brooks was given after PJ was fired. I don’t expect Donovan will be fired. I just don’t know what Billy does well that is maximizing our players abilities.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here but, let an assistant have a shot at it? Really? PJ was never anything more than a stop gap for a lame duck team. I doubt that the Thunder view Donavan the same way. Like I said, barring a complete meltdown and/or player revolt, the head coach isn't going anywhere this year.

There isn’t a d-league for coaches so I can’t go and look and tell you who would be a better option from available candidates. I do know there are better options out there. I can’t give you a guy that I can guarantee will be better. I just know there are plenty of guys who could do better. It shouldn’t be that hard to figure out rotations and run a competent offense. You’re right that we aren’t making a coaching change any time soon.

Wait, what? You can't tell me who would be better from available candidates, but you know that there are better options, but you can't give me a name of a guy who would do better, but you know there are plenty of guys that could do better? If it shouldn't be that hard to figure out rotations and run a competent offense why do so many struggle with it. I'll tell you why, being a head coach in the NBA is difficult friggin job, that's why.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/presents18986226/five-nba-coaching-prospects-watch

Post #72 » by **ThunderBolt** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:23 pm

Atomic Punk wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
Atomic Punk wrote:
I'm not trying to be argumentative here but, let an assistant have a shot at it? Really? PJ was never anything more than a stop gap for a lame duck team. I doubt that the Thunder view Donavan the same way. Like I said, barring a complete meltdown and/or player revolt, the head coach isn't going anywhere this year.

There isn’t a d-league for coaches so I can’t go and look and tell you who would be a better option from available candidates. I do know there are better options out there. I can’t give you a guy that I can guarantee will be better. I just know there are plenty of guys who could do better. It shouldn’t be that hard to figure out rotations and run a competent offense. You’re right that we aren’t making a coaching change any time soon.

Wait, what? You can't tell me who would be better from available candidates, but you know that there are better options, but you can't give me a name of a guy who would do better, but you know there are plenty of guys that could do better? If it shouldn't be that hard to figure out rotations and run a competent offense why do so many struggle with it. I'll tell you why, being a head coach in the NBA is difficult friggin job, that's why.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/presents18986226/five-nba-coaching-prospects-watch

If I said Ettore Messina, would that satisfy you? How many nba coaches have had the talent to work with that Donovan has had? Sure it’s hard but if he isn’t successful, then it’s time to try something else.

Atomic Punk · Post #73 » by **Atomic Punk** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:30 pm

Knrstz wrote:
Atomic Punk wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
There isn’t a d-league for coaches so I can’t go and look and tell you who would be a better option from available candidates. I do know there are better options out there. I can’t give you a guy that I can guarantee will be better. I just know there are plenty of guys who could do better. It shouldn’t be that hard to figure out rotations and run a competent offense. You’re right that we aren’t making a coaching change any time soon.

Wait, what? You can't tell me who would be better from available candidates, but you know that there are better options, but you can't give me a name of a guy who would do better, but you know there are plenty of guys that could do better? If it shouldn't be that hard to figure out rotations and run a competent offense why do so many struggle with it. I'll tell you why, being a head coach in the NBA is difficult friggin job, that's why.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/presents18986226/five-nba-coaching-prospects-watch

If I said Ettore Messina, would that satisfy you? How many mba coaches have had the talent to work with that Donovan has had?

Messina would be worth a look, comes from a solid program obviously. And plenty of NBA coaches have had the talent to work with that Donovan has. They usually get to work with a consistent core over a period of time though. Donovan hasn't had that opportunity. WCF, KD bolts, left with a team that was built with the idea that he would have stayed so was increibly flawed, mid season trade, still made the playoffs, added PG, 2Pat, Felton, Melo (the day before training camp) and played a shortened pre season with four rotation players missing time due to injury. I am still willing to give him a couple of games to figure some things out.

Post #74 » by **ThunderBolt** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:50 pm

Atomic Punk wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
Atomic Punk wrote:

If I said Ettore Messina, would that satisfy you? How many mba coaches have had the talent to work with that Donovan has had?

Messina would be worth a look, comes from a solid program obviously. And plenty of NBA coaches have had the talent to work with that Donovan has. They usually get to work with a consistent core over a period of time though. Donovan hasn't had that opportunity. WCF, KD bolts, left with a team that was built with the idea that he would have stayed so was increibly flawed, mid season trade, still made the playoffs, added PG, 2Pat, Felton, Melo (the day before training camp) and played a shortened pre season with four rotation players missing time due to injury. I am still willing to give him a couple of games to figure some things out.

Mark Jackson, Doug Collins, Del Harris are examples of guys who had elite talent and underachieved. This was proven when a better coach was brought in. We could come out tonight and play amazing and prove that last night was a fluke. I sincerely hope we do.

I think Donovan has had plenty of opportunity to show that he can’t implement an offense. He hasd an entire year with KD and Durant. Nothing really changed the entire year. Yes KD leaving made things harder. It’s interesting that Hayward leaving didn’t seem to impact Utah’s ability to run an offensive system. We never saw anything all of last year as smooth as Utah played last night. They are doing that two games after losing their best player. I do think OKC will get better than they were last night. I do not think dononvan is capable to maximizing the abilities of this roster. If I could see proof of this, I would change my mind. As things stand now we can only make excuses for things that have happened and hope it gets better.