Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIV

[NatP4]

Eric Bledsoe literally just tweeted “I don’t wanna be here”

I think we should make a move for him. Mahinmi+2018 1st rounder for Bledsoe

If that's all it takes, then sure. We save $2M and get a massive upgrade. If we can slip Tim Frazier into the outgoing package, we'd save $4M. And in a worst-case scenario, we could easily offload Bledsoe this summer without having to sacrifice any additional picks, so it would be no different than sacrificing a 1st to dump Mahinmi's salary.


I have a hard time believing Phoenix can't get a better offer though. Teams like Milwaukee, New York and Denver would probably give up more than that to get a quality starting PG.

Yea. If he goes anywhere I think it's New York. Kanter + a lottery pick gets it done imo. I would say Milwaukee could compete with Greg Monroe's expiring, but I don't see Phoenix being concerned about cap room right now.

He would be a rental for a tanking team. The Knicks just drafted their point guard of the future. Why would they give up a lottery pick for a year and a half rental of Bledsoe?

[Sluggerface]

And if were in the market for a guard, I'd much rather kick the tires on Dennis Scroeder and see what it would cost. Most executives don't want to touch him, but if the cap raises like the league is predicting, there's real value on that deal.

[NatP4]

And if were in the market for a guard, I'd much rather kick the tires on Dennis Scroeder and see what it would cost. Most executives don't want to touch him, but if the cap raises like the league is predicting, there's real value on that deal.

I thought about Schroeder also, but he cannot play next to Wall at all, and they kind of hate each other, while Bledose and Wall are best buds. He also seems to be taking another step this season as a 24 year old, and is a big part of Atlanta's long term plans.

[NatP4]

to get us out of the extra year on Mahinmi's deal we could try to move all of Smith+McCullough+Mahinmi+Frazier+2018 1st+2020 1st for both Eric Bledsoe and Tyson Chandler. We would have all of Bledsoe/Gortat/Chandler/Morris all expiring next offseason to help us extend Oubre and add other players potential. Gives us these 2 years to compete for a ship.

Wall Bledsoe
Beal Meeks
Porter Oubre
Morris Scott
Gortat Chandler

you never know in the eastern conference...might not be the best "big splash" move we could make, just a thought

[keynote]

If we can get Bledsoe as a supersub without giving up any of our top 6, I like our chances to make it to the Finals this year or next year. Bledsoe would be our version of Eric Gordon, and his ability to score and create would make our other, marginal bench players that much more effective on offense. Meeks, Oubre, and Scott/Smith would get the same open looks that the starters get.

We already have one of the top starting 5s in the league (for as long as Gortat can stave off Father Time). Now, I know the dream is to somehow con NOP into giving us one of their bigs to add to our core. But barring that, our only path towards competing for a chip in the Wall era would be to somehow grab a supersub, and flip our bench from a huge weakness to a huge strength. Bledsoe in DC would be the best bench player in the EC, and would be neck and neck with Gordon as the best bench player in the league.

Our Lineup of Mild Discomfort could look like:
Wall
Bledsoe
Beal
Porter
Morris (or Gortat, depending on the lineup)

Bledsoe and Beal would be a bit undersized, but both players have demonstrated the ability to defend taller wings. We can still go with the classic lineup and use Oubre instead of Bledsoe if we need the extra length.

In other words: I'd be fine w/ EG going all in asset-wise to make the deal happen.

[JWizmentality]

to get us out of the extra year on Mahinmi's deal we could try to move all of Smith+McCullough+Mahinmi+Frazier+2018 1st+2020 1st for both Eric Bledsoe and Tyson Chandler. We would have all of Bledsoe/Gortat/Chandler/Morris all expiring next offseason to help us extend Oubre and add other players potential. Gives us these 2 years to compete for a ship.

Wall Bledsoe
Beal Meeks
Porter Oubre
Morris Scott
Gortat Chandler

you never know in the eastern conference...might not be the best "big splash" move we could make, just a thought

OMG that would be f*cking awesome.

[gambitx777]

to get us out of the extra year on Mahinmi's deal we could try to move all of Smith+McCullough+Mahinmi+Frazier+2018 1st+2020 1st for both Eric Bledsoe and Tyson Chandler. We would have all of Bledsoe/Gortat/Chandler/Morris all expiring next offseason to help us extend Oubre and add other players potential. Gives us these 2 years to compete for a ship.

Wall Bledsoe
Beal Meeks
Porter Oubre
Morris Scott
Gortat Chandler

you never know in the eastern conference...might not be the best "big splash" move we could make, just a thought

OMG that would be f*cking awesome.

I know that I am mister trade the picks but this is way too far even for me, Now here is why.
Bledsoe want's out, meaning the suns have how much leverage ? 0, Tyson chandler for mahinmi, when chandler and mahinmi are both healthy they are the same dude, Except chandler is 35, and Ian is 30. Ian is paid about 3 more mill and has one more year on that deal . Ian is probably the dude you want more player wise cuz hes younger, but chandler has a smaller shorter deal. I feel that evens out their trade value, which is not very much . Bledsoe and chandler are at 27 million. ian is at 16 and since we are over the cap you need to add about 10.5 mill on to this trade. its really hard to match the money up before january when the sign restrictions come off.
So lets say you do ian 16.5 ish jason 5.2 ish tim 2, chris 1.4 ish and mac at 1.3 ish which puts you at about 26.5 ish to their 27.5 ish incoming. which i do believe is close enough in the rules to even money to work with us being over the cap. But 2 firsts **** NO! bledsoe is injury prone which i will get to in a moment and chandler is 35! No way am i giving up 2 firsts unprotected for that. (god im becoming piff) But what I would do. Is a 2018 second the draft rights to aaron white and a top 20 protected 2019, which turns to our next two seconds top 40 protected if not paid by 2021, and vanishes if not paid by 2025. To me the seconds and the protections make it acceptable enough, considering my next point. We are loosing 5 dudes for two. Yeah ian for chandler is pretty much a lateral move. we are loosing the little PF depth we have by moving chris and jason for a big who can't play PF. mac may be done for the season and bledsoe does replace tim and we still have tomas incase someone goes down, which both wall and bledsoe could! but then being over the cap, even more so, we have to sign two more guys. probably big men, and pray nothing happens to wall and bledsoe and hope that a 4 man guard rotation with wall beal bleadsoe and tomas can work and that wall and bleadsoe can get along.
Now with that said. I'd do my version of the trade. Gets ride of mahinmi and gives us a decent combo guard... even thought hes small and is not playing well (probably due to team issues). but hes still probably worth 14 a year for two years. and chandlers is serviceable enough. who would we bring in to fill the team out. a few names
Spencer Hawes
Cliff Alexander
Perry Jones
Thomas Robinson
Christian Wood
Ryan Kelly
Rakeem Christmas
Kris Humphries
Brandon Ashley
Terrence Jones
Derrick Williams
and chris bosh...... ?
I also have my doubts about bleadsoe getting along and being willing to play behind wall ... again!

[NatP4]

I can't see the suns taking on that mahinmi contract and trading away an all star in Eric Bledsoe for a 2019 1st, a 2018 2nd and Aaron White. I mean, you practically need a 1st rounder attached to Mahinmi just to move that contract, despite the fact that he is a solid player.

I can see an argument against giving up picks for a backup PG, but in terms of value, OKC had even less leverage at the time with the Paul George situation and they still got Sabonis(11th overall pick) and Oladipo. That is almost the equivalent to us giving up Otto and Kelly.

[trast66]

I hope we keep our picks, Smith and/or Meeks opt out, and stretch Mahimni. We have to resign Kieff because we won't have cap room to replace him. And stop giving away 2nd rounders.

I don't want Bledsoe or Cousins near John Wall.

Ted Leonsis’s 10 point rebuilding plan:
"4. Commit to building around the draft. Invest in scouting, development, and a system. Articulate that system and stay with it so that all players feel comfortable— know the language— know what is expected of them— read the Oriole Way*. It worked and it is a great tutorial. Draft players that fit the system, not the best player. Draft the best player for the system. Don’t deviate or get seduced by agents, media demands, or by just stats or hype. Envision how this player will slide into your system."

[gambitx777]

I can't see the suns taking on that mahinmi contract and trading away an all star in Eric Bledsoe for a 2019 1st, a 2018 2nd and Aaron White. I mean, you practically need a 1st rounder attached to Mahinmi just to move that contract, despite the fact that he is a solid player.

I can see an argument against giving up picks for a backup PG, but in terms of value, OKC had even less leverage at the time with the Paul George situation and they still got Sabonis(11th overall pick) and Oladipo. That is almost the equivalent to us giving up Otto and Kelly.

Oladipo, its, meh, hes ok ! and sabonis did nothing in okc what so ever ! ! ! Now i get your point but as the wizards you had to stand firm on that price and not over pay for an injury prone, attitude troubled backup (6'1 combo) point guard who thinks hes worth a max deal and a 35 year old back up center. at the most i would maybe drop the protection on the pick by some measure but not much. I would honestly rather just trade mahinmi for chandler and be done lol. but if we can swing a trade for drew and it work and he accepts a 6th mans role behind john and brade. **** it, make him the next jason terry or eric gordon. but idk seems risky unless he agrees to his role here

[dangermouse]

Eric Bledsoe literally just tweeted “I don’t wanna be here”

I think we should make a move for him. Mahinmi+2018 1st rounder for Bledsoe

Thats more like it

Ive read comments from Suns fans who hate him and want him out. Sounds like he is completely detatched from games, no idea why? Ear Watson has been fired, maybe it was a coaching thing.

Could be a steal trade. I think thats got to be the best "Mahinmi dump with a 1st" target out there. I'm sure playing with John again could get him back on track. Backup PG/SG who could really take pressure off Wall and Beal.

Offer Mahinmi + Sato straight up. Replace Sato with our first if they decline.

[payitforward]

I don't know if Mahinmi can be dumped without sacrificing multiple 1sts. I think they'll dump Jason Smith and waive Carrick Felix and Sheldon McClellan.

?? If you were going to waive Mac, who can't play after all, why would you wait to waive him -- & pay him most of his season salary?

In any case, if Felix & Mac have guaranteed salaries, I don't think you can remove them from your cap/tax total by waiving them.

If they get rid of Mahinmi at the cost of even 1 R1 pick, & Ernie survives the debacle, it will put the finishing touches on the worst set of GM moves (2016 off season) I've seen in the last 2 decades (maybe with the exception of Billy King's debacle trade w/ the Celts).

The source I'm using says that Felix is not guaranteed and Mac is only guaranteed for $50,000. If that's the case, they can be cut later in the year and their cap number would be zero (in the case of Felix) and $50,000 in the case of Mac. I'm actually surprised that they haven't already waived Mac.

I understand why they haven't waived Mac -- they want to keep their rights over him. That makes great sense to me, as he has real promise & is a useful trade asset if nothing else. At his cost, that's good value even tho he's injured.

As to his salary not being guaranteed -- at some point, I believe, it has to become guaranteed. I.e. there's a point where it's either cut the kid or guarantee him. My thinking was that if they intended not to pick up the option & guarantee him, they'd have cut him already. Tho, of course, they could be paying him until that point as a matter of kindness & courtesy, & I would applaud Ernie for that, if so.

Felix more or less ditto. At some point, you have to decide to keep someone. Now... can I cite chapter & verse from the CBA on this? No. But, if you could have a season-long unguaranteed player on your roster, we'd be seeing *a lot more* of them! Or so it seems to me.

Edit: just found it -- Mac & Felix's salaries become guaranteed on 1/10/18, unless the team decides to cut 1 or both of them instead before that date.

I can certainly see them cutting Felix is someone better is available. Ditto Mac, of course, but IMO it would take a better player in his case.

[payitforward]

I will say I'm not above giving up 1sts at this point. I think early 2nd rounders can be more valuable than picks in the 20-30 range. I'd like to see these guys get in the business of buying picks.

If Ernie had shown the smarts to buy early R2 picks before now, I could underline this point. But he hasn't. & now that teams like GS have demonstrated what an incredible bargain move it is, more teams will want to do it -- meaning that the price will go up significantly.

In fact, it already has. But it'll go up even more in the next year or so -- a lot more. Whereupon, of course, it stops being a bargain.

As to "giving up 1sts at this point" -- it's a little late to be talking about "this point." We gave up our R1 picks in 2014, 2016 & 2017. After wasting 2 R1 picks in 2011. That's why we have players like Tim Frazier, Carrick Felix, Chris McCullough, Sheldon Mac & Mike Scott on our team. Occasionally you get a good player that veteran minimum way -- but it's rare.

For that matter, you can get a good player w/ low R2 picks as well. But, Ernie has already traded away our 2019, 2020 & 2021 R2 picks -- that's after trading away our 2015, 2016 & 2017 R2 picks. Oh, & that's after wasting our high R2 picks in 2011, 2012 & 2013. & getting nothing out of our extra 2014 R2 pick (or our own) & trading away another 2012 R2 pick (which I'd have used on Kyle O'Quinn).

What a record. So, no, we can't trade any more picks. Period.

[tontoz]

I hope we keep our picks, Smith and/or Meeks opt out, and stretch Mahimni. We have to resign Kieff because we won't have cap room to replace him. And stop giving away 2nd rounders.

I don't want Bledsoe or Cousins near John Wall.

Ted Leonsis’s 10 point rebuilding plan:
"4. Commit to building around the draft. Invest in scouting, development, and a system. Articulate that system and stay with it so that all players feel comfortable— know the language— know what is expected of them— read the Oriole Way*. It worked and it is a great tutorial. Draft players that fit the system, not the best player. Draft the best player for the system. Don’t deviate or get seduced by agents, media demands, or by just stats or hype. Envision how this player will slide into your system."

Where does trading away draft picks every year fit into the plan?

[payitforward]

In case you didn't count, that's 17 picks. Actually, there was another R2 pick in 2013 (used to trade up for GRIII), so make it 18. I haven't even gone back to 2010 to note 2 picks used to get Booker, whom we let walk for nothing. That makes 20. I'm not counting the pick we used on Seraphin -- he didn't work out, but it was ok to draft him at his spot.

Not that we haven't gone over all this, but still... to finish the story: the only good picks Ernie has made were the 2 very high ones the ping pong balls gave us, the '12 pick at #3, & the pick of Oubre (assuming he works out, which certainly seems possible!). Some people like trading a R1 for Gortat -- but they ignore that it was a 1-year rental.

Plowing old ground.... Sorry!

[payitforward]

I hope we keep our picks, Smith and/or Meeks opt out, and stretch Mahimni. We have to resign Kieff because we won't have cap room to replace him. And stop giving away 2nd rounders.

I don't want Bledsoe or Cousins near John Wall.

Ted Leonsis’s 10 point rebuilding plan:
"4. Commit to building around the draft. Invest in scouting, development, and a system. Articulate that system and stay with it so that all players feel comfortable— know the language— know what is expected of them— read the Oriole Way*. It worked and it is a great tutorial. Draft players that fit the system, not the best player. Draft the best player for the system. Don’t deviate or get seduced by agents, media demands, or by just stats or hype. Envision how this player will slide into your system."

Where does trading away draft picks every year fit into the plan?

LOL -- it saves on the cost of "scouting, development...." Also it means that if you have no idea who the best player is, or even the best player for your system, you don't embarrass yourself.

Most amazing thing to me is that there are plenty of people who think that b/c we won 49 games last year, it must mean the FO is doing a terrific job. After all, that's 9th best out of 30 teams. We're in the top 1/3 of the league -- wow, huh?

[Kanyewest]

The Wizards should probably pass on Bledsoe unless it is a Mahinmi dump and not attached to any 1st rounders; mostly because it is the Wizards bet chance to acquire bargain contracts. Phoenix didn't do well with the small guard lineup of Bledsoe, Dragic, and Thomas, and both Dragic and Thomas have put up better numbers since leaving that experimental lineup.

Also teams with bigger point guard needs will give up more to get Bledsoe like Denver. Or even Cleveland could entertain trading the Brooklyn pick for Bledsoe and another asset.

[Ruzious]

to get us out of the extra year on Mahinmi's deal we could try to move all of Smith+McCullough+Mahinmi+Frazier+2018 1st+2020 1st for both Eric Bledsoe and Tyson Chandler. We would have all of Bledsoe/Gortat/Chandler/Morris all expiring next offseason to help us extend Oubre and add other players potential. Gives us these 2 years to compete for a ship.

Wall Bledsoe
Beal Meeks
Porter Oubre
Morris Scott
Gortat Chandler

you never know in the eastern conference...might not be the best "big splash" move we could make, just a thought

OMG that would be f*cking awesome.

I know that I am mister trade the picks but this is way too far even for me, Now here is why.
Bledsoe want's out, meaning the suns have how much leverage ? 0, Tyson chandler for mahinmi, when chandler and mahinmi are both healthy they are the same dude, Except chandler is 35, and Ian is 30. Ian is paid about 3 more mill and has one more year on that deal . Ian is probably the dude you want more player wise cuz hes younger, but chandler has a smaller shorter deal. I feel that evens out their trade value, which is not very much . Bledsoe and chandler are at 27 million. ian is at 16 and since we are over the cap you need to add about 10.5 mill on to this trade. its really hard to match the money up before january when the sign restrictions come off.
So lets say you do ian 16.5 ish jason 5.2 ish tim 2, chris 1.4 ish and mac at 1.3 ish which puts you at about 26.5 ish to their 27.5 ish incoming. which i do believe is close enough in the rules to even money to work with us being over the cap. But 2 firsts **** NO! bledsoe is injury prone which i will get to in a moment and chandler is 35! No way am i giving up 2 firsts unprotected for that. (god im becoming piff) But what I would do. Is a 2018 second the draft rights to aaron white and a top 20 protected 2019, which turns to our next two seconds top 40 protected if not paid by 2021, and vanishes if not paid by 2025. To me the seconds and the protections make it acceptable enough, considering my next point. We are loosing 5 dudes for two. Yeah ian for chandler is pretty much a lateral move. we are loosing the little PF depth we have by moving chris and jason for a big who can't play PF. mac may be done for the season and bledsoe does replace tim and we still have tomas incase someone goes down, which both wall and bledsoe could! but then being over the cap, even more so, we have to sign two more guys. probably big men, and pray nothing happens to wall and bledsoe and hope that a 4 man guard rotation with wall beal bleadsoe and tomas can work and that wall and bleadsoe can get along.
Now with that said. I'd do my version of the trade. Gets ride of mahinmi and gives us a decent combo guard... even thought hes small and is not playing well (probably due to team issues). but hes still probably worth 14 a year for two years. and chandlers is serviceable enough. who would we bring in to fill the team out. a few names
Spencer Hawes
Cliff Alexander
Perry Jones
Thomas Robinson
Christian Wood
Ryan Kelly
Rakeem Christmas
Kris Humphries
Brandon Ashley
Terrence Jones
Derrick Williams
and chris bosh...... ?
I also have my doubts about bleadsoe getting along and being willing to play behind wall ... again!

Bottom line of doing the Bledsoe and Chandler trade; after this season and next, we wouldn't have the 2 backups we traded 2 firsts for. We'd intentionally have nothing to show for 2 1st rounders. That's not a good plan, imo.

[trast66]

I hope we keep our picks, Smith and/or Meeks opt out, and stretch Mahimni. We have to resign Kieff because we won't have cap room to replace him. And stop giving away 2nd rounders.

I don't want Bledsoe or Cousins near John Wall.

Ted Leonsis’s 10 point rebuilding plan:
"4. Commit to building around the draft. Invest in scouting, development, and a system. Articulate that system and stay with it so that all players feel comfortable— know the language— know what is expected of them— read the Oriole Way*. It worked and it is a great tutorial. Draft players that fit the system, not the best player. Draft the best player for the system. Don’t deviate or get seduced by agents, media demands, or by just stats or hype. Envision how this player will slide into your system."

Where does trading away draft picks every year fit into the plan?

I think it was #11 of the 10 point plan.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I will say I'm not above giving up 1sts at this point. I think early 2nd rounders can be more valuable than picks in the 20-30 range. I'd like to see these guys get in the business of buying picks.

If Ernie had shown the smarts to buy early R2 picks before now, I could underline this point. But he hasn't. & now that teams like GS have demonstrated what an incredible bargain move it is, more teams will want to do it -- meaning that the price will go up significantly.

In fact, it already has. But it'll go up even more in the next year or so -- a lot more. Whereupon, of course, it stops being a bargain.

As to "giving up 1sts at this point" -- it's a little late to be talking about "this point." We gave up our R1 picks in 2014, 2016 & 2017. After wasting 2 R1 picks in 2011. That's why we have players like Tim Frazier, Carrick Felix, Chris McCullough, Sheldon Mac & Mike Scott on our team. Occasionally you get a good player that veteran minimum way -- but it's rare.

For that matter, you can get a good player w/ low R2 picks as well. But, Ernie has already traded away our 2019, 2020 & 2021 R2 picks -- that's after trading away our 2015, 2016 & 2017 R2 picks. Oh, & that's after wasting our high R2 picks in 2011, 2012 & 2013. & getting nothing out of our extra 2014 R2 pick (or our own) & trading away another 2012 R2 pick (which I'd have used on Kyle O'Quinn).

What a record. So, no, we can't trade any more picks. Period.

Ernie sucks.

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