'Embarrassing Turnout'

[Kilo]

Gondola seats are a gimmick. How many seats to the add to destroy sight lines for how many more fans?

[Pharaoh]

If I'm Gores I want MY team to play a style of ball that the fans want to see

And in Detroit that's hard nosed D, going to work, bad boys basketball

Assuming SVG can't buy into that concept then he needs to focus on the FO and get a coach that can deliver the style of play the locals want.

It also means trading for guys that have a little grunt to them.

There's plenty of guys around the league that fit that style of play and would be available for the right price.

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[Kilo]

If I'm Gores I want MY team to play a style of ball that the fans want to see

And in Detroit that's hard nosed D, going to work, bad boys basketball

Assuming SVG can't buy into that concept then he needs to focus on the FO and get a coach that can deliver the style of play the locals want.

It also means trading for guys that have a little grunt to them.

There's plenty of guys around the league that fit that style of play and would be available for the right price.

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Gores just thinks that was a marketing gimmick. I mean he's trying to sell "Detroit Grind" and "Detroit Muscle" about this squad now. It's embarrassing. Stan Van Gundy doesn't understand it either.

The most "Goin' to work" team in the league right now is the Memphis Grizzlies.

[Billl]

The idea that detroit only like grind it out basketball is pretty weird. Kids are running around in Curry jerseys just like in every other city. A few diehard fans might want to see 80-79 slugfests, but everyone else just wants to watch a winner.

[Pharaoh]

The idea that detroit only like grind it out basketball is pretty weird. Kids are running around in Curry jerseys just like in every other city. A few diehard fans might want to see 80-79 slugfests, but everyone else just wants to watch a winner.

"A winner"

Defense wins games - always has and always will

Let's be real here: ain't no championship in our future! We simply don't have that level of talent

So...we can pretend to play this run and gun, pace and space style to keep up with the Jones's or we can be honest and upfront about our situation and build a "working class" team.

There's a reason the Going to Work Pistons were so popular, why teams that really get after it on D usually win more than they lose

Most teams aren't used to playing against full blown D every night

Said it before and Ill say it again:

The content of a player's character is more important than his skillset, his mentality is worth more than his skillset...

You build a winning team with guys that are willing to work, ready to fight, ready to take on the best of the best and not flinch

Whatever perceived slight you need to invent then invent it! Whatever perceived chip on their shoulder that needs to be re-enforced, you do that too

There's a laundry list of things wrong with our franchise and it's been evident for 2 years IMO

1 - Ownership is not willing to do what it takes to win big

2 - FO is not willing to take calculated risks in order to sacrifice what we are now for what we could be in 2 years time

3 - the structures of our system do not match the roster we have

4 - our coach is full of **** and has no standards

5 - our most expensive players aren't the kind of leaders you want

6 - our best players are marginalised in our system

7 - we choke the life out of our young prospects

IMHO 1 through 6 determines how we are viewed in the player's circle and plays more of a role in our inability to attract talent than our location.

But I'm just an old guy with a keyboard. Gores & SVG are TPTB and I've got to accept that this is my Pistons...

Or become a Jazz fan

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[Billl]

Great teams win games. That means defense and offense.

There was literally only 1 team that didn't average over 100 ppg last year. If you aren't scoring 105+, you aren't going to be able to compete.

[Pharaoh]

BTW, people that believe tanking is the only option should have a look at our contract/cap situation

Other than rookie deals & Dre only RJ & Jon have more than 2 seasons to run on their current deals

In order to better position ourselves ideally we'd trade RJ & Jon for guys that not only help us win games over those 2 years but guys that expire after that.

A guy like Bledsoe!

Assuming we make a playoff push the next 2 years SVG would then have a pretty clean cap sheet...

It'd be the Horford scenario all over again where we actually get in the room with a difference maker.

This is the season to re-jig the contract situation in order to set us up long term.

AB is the only significant FA after this season so in 2 years time we could have:

Dre
AB
SJ
Henry
Jedi

On the books and of the un-named players only Tobias is worth keeping

Jon Boy to Sacramento for Koufus works financially...Koufus has 2 years v Jon's 3 and is a little cheaper...a second rounder or 2 should be enough to sweeten that pot

There's one problem gone!

RJ & unprotected 2018 first for Bledsoe is a calculated risk that Phoenix might be willing to take since they're tanking the next 2 years, at which point RJ is a valuable expiring contract they could use to match salary with assets for a stud..

So in 2 years time we'd have:

Dre
AB
SJ
Henry
Jedi

Bird Rights to Tobias and Bledsoe if we wanted to keep them

And nothing else

Bledsoe, AB, SJ as the perimeter D

Jedi & Kingy as the floor spacers

And Drummond in the middle - in 2 years time he might actually be worth it!

Spend the cap space on dudes that fit, dudes we can actually play and who knows what we could be?

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[ByeByeDre]

Or become a Jazz fan

A lot of people I know have an AFC football team so they can root for a good team not interfering with the Lions. I vote Rockets - they could grow into the team to topple the Warriors. The Timberwolves could be fun to pull for too. The Jazz bring it every night, and the Grizz do to.

In the East the Sixers are the Grand Experiment. Bucks could work too.

[ByeByeDre]

Or become a Jazz fan

A lot of people I know have an AFC football team so they can root for a good team not interfering with the Lions. For NBA West I vote Rockets - they could grow into the team to topple the Warriors. The Timberwolves could be fun to pull for too. The Jazz bring it every night, and the Grizz do to.

In the East the Sixers are the Grand Experiment. Bucks could work too.

[Pharaoh]

Or become a Jazz fan

A lot of people I know have an AFC football team so they can root for a good team not interfering with the Lions. I vote Rockets - they could grow into the team to topple the Warriors. The Timberwolves could be fun to pull for too. The Jazz bring it every night, and the Grizz do to.

In the East the Sixers are the Grand Experiment. Bucks could work too.

I'll never be a fan of a team who's best player flips and flops around like a fish out of water.

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[ByeByeDre]

Or become a Jazz fan

A lot of people I know have an AFC football team so they can root for a good team not interfering with the Lions. I vote Rockets - they could grow into the team to topple the Warriors. The Timberwolves could be fun to pull for too. The Jazz bring it every night, and the Grizz do to.

In the East the Sixers are the Grand Experiment. Bucks could work too.

I'll never be a fan of a team who's best player flips and flops around like a fish out of water.

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Then you’ve definitely picked the right team

[Pharaoh]

Great teams win games. That means defense and offense.

There was literally only 1 team that didn't average over 100 ppg last year. If you aren't scoring 105+, you aren't going to be able to compete.

I missed this post so:

If 29 teams are all scoring over 100ppg doesn't that illustrate my point?

What's the point differential from the highest scoring team to 15th?

Same for defense.

Do the numbers show what I've been taught and what I've preached for 30 years?



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[Billl]

"If 29 teams are all scoring over 100ppg doesn't that illustrate my point?"

No, it illustrates the opposite. You can't win in today's NBA playing the same style the going to work teams did. They scored 90 points per game in 2004. If you do that in 2017, you get run out of the gym every night. The worst offensive team in the league is going to put up 99 points.

Yes, teams still have to play defense to win. But No, you can't lock teams down under the new rules. They literally changed the rules to keep that from being a successful strategy. If you try to play grind it our basketball in 2017, all that's going to happen is that you'll lead the league in fouls and lose a lot of games in the process.

[Alexander]

Haven't been enthused about making it to a game because
a) I'm grouchy that they moved, I live about 10 minutes away from the Palace
b) Parking in Detroit always stresses me out, I rarely carry cash, it's always sketchy and one time we got scammed out of 20 dollars in a parking lot
c) I got pulled over in Detroit for having expired tags and it was a whole **** show that led to my license getting suspended even though my registration was current and insurance was current and I went to court to prove it and mreaghhhhh just thinking about it and typing it out is ughhhhhhh and I've been avoiding the city ever sincee
d) it seems silly to share a stadium with another sports team that has a concurrent season. How is that not a logistical hamstring? Is that not an admission that we are lowest on the totem pole?
e) Nobody wants to go with me! Even the die-hard friends I have that would be willing to drive and/or pay for parking have turned on the team because of all the garbage that has occurred since 2007 or so.

[Pharaoh]

"If 29 teams are all scoring over 100ppg doesn't that illustrate my point?"

No, it illustrates the opposite. You can't win in today's NBA playing the same style the going to work teams did. They scored 90 points per game in 2004. If you do that in 2017, you get run out of the gym every night. The worst offensive team in the league is going to put up 99 points.

Yes, teams still have to play defense to win. But No, you can't lock teams down under the new rules. They literally changed the rules to keep that from being a successful strategy. If you try to play grind it our basketball in 2017, all that's going to happen is that you'll lead the league in fouls and lose a lot of games in the process.

I think you're confusing my dream of a defensive minded team with a inept offensive team.

You can be a defensive minded team and still score league average ppg - hence why I asked what the difference was between the highest ppg and 15th

Fact is we - as a organisation - have not prioritized defense under SVG and THAT to me is the single biggest reason why we're at best a .500 team.

We've added RJ, Tobias, Luke, Henry under SVG - NONE were thought of as defensive players and are unlikely to ever be known for their D

AB fell from the clouds and we took advantage of a situation beyond our control - he's the ONLY guy that is highly regarded on the defensive end that SVG acquired!

KCP was already on the roster when SVG arrived.

So again:

What's the numbers say for the top 15 offensive teams?

Is there a significant difference between 1 & 10, 10 & 15, 7 & 15?

And the same on D?

Is there a significant difference between 1 & 10, 10 & 15, 7 & 15?

We're never going to be elite offensively with the talent available to us - the elite scorers are drafted high af

But building a quality defensive team is possible & I don't think you have to abandon all hope offensively to do it



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[ByeByeDre]

Can the person who posted the photo in the upper bowl behind the Gondola seats please re-post? I wanted to show a friend. Thanks.

[Billl]

You're just moving the goal posts at this point. You claimed the arena was empty because our style of play wasn't "hard nosed D, going to work, bad boys basketball." Nobody disputes that you need to play better defense to win more games.

[Pharaoh]

You're just moving the goal posts at this point. You claimed the arena was empty because our style of play wasn't "hard nosed D, going to work, bad boys basketball." Nobody disputes that you need to play better defense to win more games.

I didn't say the arena was empty because of our style of play.

You said Detroit fans have always supported a winner, at which point I went on a tangent about how defense wins games.

Tbh I don't care WHY the arena is empty - we all know why it is.

The question is how do we "fix" that issue in the shortest possible time frame

To me that's on the defensive end of the floor because 29 teams score over 100 etc

I can't be **** to look up the numbers and obviously you can't be bothered either.

No drama. I'll look some other time

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[MotownMadness]

Pistons almost have to go the grind it out defensive first mentality. This city cannot bring in FAs especially high octane offensive players. But they can rely on depth and defensive minded players and have found most their success that way. Don't know how you would ever build the next GS in a city like this. So I wouldn't venture too far from our roots.

[Billl]

"Don't know how you would ever build the next GS in a city like this."

GS built a championship team around late lotto and second round picks. They didn't get any real free agents until they were already contenders. Of course, it's pretty rare to get all-nba talent that way, but that doesn't have anything to do with the market.