Fultz vs. Tatum: What do you think now?

[ConstableGeneva]

2 points and 2 Assists for Fultz tonight. Could you imagine the meltdown here at the moment if we drafted him and hyped him all summer and started seeing this

I'm just surprised there's not enough outrage yet over picking Ojeleye instead of Jordan Bell. Maybe we've matured!

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[The Corey's]

What happened to the fultz that said he wanted to win mvp as a rookie?

Love the ambition but come on

[meatball sub]

People keep saying Fultz shoulder is hurt, but i've seen no indication of that in how he plays. He hustles for loose balls & extends his right arm on defense trying to steal the ball. I think it's 10X more likely that he's a headcase & decided to change his shot mechanics based on something he was told regarding his shot.

There's gotta be a reason he was the slam dunk #1 pick & then as soon as he came in for his visit everything flipped. I bet he flunked the brain doctor's test.

[sully00]

People keep saying Fultz shoulder is hurt, but i've seen no indication of that in how he plays. He hustles for loose balls & extends his right arm on defense trying to steal the ball. I think it's 10X more likely that he's a headcase & decided to change his shot mechanics based on something he was told regarding his shot.

There's gotta be a reason he was the slam dunk #1 pick & then as soon as he came in for his visit everything flipped. I bet he flunked the brain doctor's test.

He was never a slam dunk #1 pick. The worst thing and best thing that happened to Fultz was Giles knee injury, Giles was the slam dunk #1 pick and blew out his knee. He never should have played a game last season. I think based on play Jackson was probably the #1 pick but he created questions about his game and make up and ditched a work out. Ball is a pure PG not a guy who you can pair with another PG if that matters. Tatum has a ton of talent but a slow start it took some balls to take him over Jackson but I think talent wise it was the right decision.

I don't know how you watch college basketball and the NBA and not have reservations about Fultz and the year he had. Felt a little bit like that with Simmons but there was no other option I didn't also have concerns with. That said I was all over KO over the Greek Freak so what do I know.

[ballup]

It makes no sense to keep playing Fultz if his shoulder is injured. It's not like the Sixers are heavily pushing for the playoffs. They‘d be playing Embiid full time if that was the case.

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[Kolkmania]

People keep saying Fultz shoulder is hurt, but i've seen no indication of that in how he plays. He hustles for loose balls & extends his right arm on defense trying to steal the ball. I think it's 10X more likely that he's a headcase & decided to change his shot mechanics based on something he was told regarding his shot.

There's gotta be a reason he was the slam dunk #1 pick & then as soon as he came in for his visit everything flipped. I bet he flunked the brain doctor's test.

He was never a slam dunk #1 pick. The worst thing and best thing that happened to Fultz was Giles knee injury, Giles was the slam dunk #1 pick and blew out his knee. He never should have played a game last season. I think based on play Jackson was probably the #1 pick but he created questions about his game and make up and ditched a work out. Ball is a pure PG not a guy who you can pair with another PG if that matters. Tatum has a ton of talent but a slow start it took some balls to take him over Jackson but I think talent wise it was the right decision.

I don't know how you watch college basketball and the NBA and not have reservations about Fultz and the year he had. Felt a little bit like that with Simmons but there was no other option I didn't also have concerns with. That said I was all over KO over the Greek Freak so what do I know.

Giles was a PF who didn't have great range, poor vision and didn't have the defense of a center. You could see the potential when he crossed people while being 6'10'', which seemed really crazy, but he wasn't a sure thing either. He could have been a high usage, low efficient PF, or an undersized C with poor defense.

I think a lot of the reactions about Fultz are in hindsight, we're judging a player who looks nothing similar to the player who scored efficiently from three levels while being 18 years old, was an above average playmaker and had elite measurements for a PG.
Josh Jackson wasn't quick enough to beat athletes off the dribble, his defense was overrated, one of the worst shot mechanics and 20 years old. Jayson Tatum did everything well, but nothing exceptional and he had troubles finishing around big guys and settled for long jumpers against good defenders. De'Aaron Fox was a historically bad shooter and his frame was so fragile. Dennis Smith jr. didn't gave a **** in 50% of his games and came close to Fox' efficiency from midrange on a large sample size.

I could go on and one, but at the time Markelle Fultz was the consensus #1 pick and most agreed on this forum (check the reactions after lottery). That doesn't mean he will be the best player from the draft and he'll certainly not be the best if he continues with his shooting issues.

[FinallyImHere]

Why do people keep calling Tatum a PF??? Stop. The kid is a SF and that's where he will max his potential. Yes he can play PF at times but that's not his natural position. Just like when Marcus Smart he came in everyone wanted him to play PG in reality he can play some PG but he's a SG/PG. Tatum is SF/PF

Respectfully disagree. One of Hayward/Brown/Tatum need to be the big wing that will be guarded by opposing 4’s. I think it’s pretty obvious which one will be making that move.

Yup offensively I dont think it makes a difference. I think all 3 of those guys are basically going to be playing the same position offensively. You call Tatum a 4 because A) hes by far the best rebounder out of the group. And its not like its the cheap rebounds not in traffic type, that dude battles for those boards and B) hes the longest out of the group and already does a good job holding his own. Also hes not quite as quick as Brown or Hayward which means hes better off guarding 4s than 3s and 2s (even though I think he still does a solid job using his length in those situations).

We will not keep both Brown and Tatum it won't work long term. I prefer to trade Brown in a package to get a 4 that fits better move Tatum to the 3 Hayward at the 2 that's just my opinion but I think Danny has to trade one of these guys.

[DarkAzcura]

Respectfully disagree. One of Hayward/Brown/Tatum need to be the big wing that will be guarded by opposing 4’s. I think it’s pretty obvious which one will be making that move.

Yup offensively I dont think it makes a difference. I think all 3 of those guys are basically going to be playing the same position offensively. You call Tatum a 4 because A) hes by far the best rebounder out of the group. And its not like its the cheap rebounds not in traffic type, that dude battles for those boards and B) hes the longest out of the group and already does a good job holding his own. Also hes not quite as quick as Brown or Hayward which means hes better off guarding 4s than 3s and 2s (even though I think he still does a solid job using his length in those situations).

We will not keep both Brown and Tatum it won't work long term. I prefer to trade Brown in a package to get a 4 that fits better move Tatum to the 3 Hayward at the 2 that's just my opinion but I think Danny has to trade one of these guys.

It will work perfectly fine. This isn't the 90s anymore. Tatum has the length of a modern PF. Weight is not there quite yet. It's clear the Celtics want to be able to seamlessly switch between the 2-4 positions. In fact Stevens has gone on record multiple times believing there is only 3 main positions in today's NBA (ball handler, wing, big), and even then there can be crossover between those 3 positions.

[FinallyImHere]

Yup offensively I dont think it makes a difference. I think all 3 of those guys are basically going to be playing the same position offensively. You call Tatum a 4 because A) hes by far the best rebounder out of the group. And its not like its the cheap rebounds not in traffic type, that dude battles for those boards and B) hes the longest out of the group and already does a good job holding his own. Also hes not quite as quick as Brown or Hayward which means hes better off guarding 4s than 3s and 2s (even though I think he still does a solid job using his length in those situations).

We will not keep both Brown and Tatum it won't work long term. I prefer to trade Brown in a package to get a 4 that fits better move Tatum to the 3 Hayward at the 2 that's just my opinion but I think Danny has to trade one of these guys.

It will work perfectly fine. This isn't the 90s anymore. Tatum has the length of a modern PF. Weight is not there quite yet. It's clear the Celtics want to be able to seamlessly switch between the 2-4 positions. In fact Stevens has gone on record multiple times believing there is only 3 main positions in today's NBA (ball handler, wing, big), and even then there can be crossover between those 3 positions.

I hope you're right I just don't feel comfortable having Tatum at the 4 I see him as the perfect 3. Maybe if he puts on some series weight grows an inch or two then I'll feel better with him at the 4.

[CelticsLV]

2 points and 2 Assists for Fultz tonight. Could you imagine the meltdown here at the moment if we drafted him and hyped him all summer and started seeing this

I'm just surprised there's not enough outrage yet over picking Ojeleye instead of Jordan Bell. Maybe we've matured!

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He was rated as medical red flag by multiple teams.

[Slartibartfast]

People keep saying Fultz shoulder is hurt, but i've seen no indication of that in how he plays. He hustles for loose balls & extends his right arm on defense trying to steal the ball. I think it's 10X more likely that he's a headcase & decided to change his shot mechanics based on something he was told regarding his shot.

There's gotta be a reason he was the slam dunk #1 pick & then as soon as he came in for his visit everything flipped. I bet he flunked the brain doctor's test.

The bold is just outright ridiculous.

[Cornbread]

People keep saying Fultz shoulder is hurt, but i've seen no indication of that in how he plays. He hustles for loose balls & extends his right arm on defense trying to steal the ball. I think it's 10X more likely that he's a headcase & decided to change his shot mechanics based on something he was told regarding his shot.

There's gotta be a reason he was the slam dunk #1 pick & then as soon as he came in for his visit everything flipped. I bet he flunked the brain doctor's test.

The bold is just outright ridiculous.

Perhaps he’s overstating it, but I don’t buy that it is JUST a shoulder injury. Something is going on that the team isn’t telling us. It just doesn’t make sense otherwise.

[Slartibartfast]

People keep saying Fultz shoulder is hurt, but i've seen no indication of that in how he plays. He hustles for loose balls & extends his right arm on defense trying to steal the ball. I think it's 10X more likely that he's a headcase & decided to change his shot mechanics based on something he was told regarding his shot.

There's gotta be a reason he was the slam dunk #1 pick & then as soon as he came in for his visit everything flipped. I bet he flunked the brain doctor's test.

The bold is just outright ridiculous.

Perhaps he’s overstating it, but I don’t buy that it is JUST a shoulder injury. Something is going on that the team isn’t telling us. It just doesn’t make sense otherwise.

Maybe he's overreacting and this is unusual, but it's not like it's totally unprecedented. Remember when Rondo dislocated his elbow and kept playing, just much much less effectively.

[sam_I_am]

People keep saying Fultz shoulder is hurt, but i've seen no indication of that in how he plays. He hustles for loose balls & extends his right arm on defense trying to steal the ball. I think it's 10X more likely that he's a headcase & decided to change his shot mechanics based on something he was told regarding his shot.

There's gotta be a reason he was the slam dunk #1 pick & then as soon as he came in for his visit everything flipped. I bet he flunked the brain doctor's test.

If you ever had a SLAP tear or rotator cuff tear you’d understand. Extending, diving, dribbling, fouling are all different than lifting overhead. Shooting free throws or pushing up above head might be the only thing that hurts or is weak. There is zero reason to shoot with his form unless you are trying to use none of your shoulder strength on your free throw. If it is all mental then that is a pretty messed up way to compensate. Doesn’t make sense unless his shoulder is hurt.

When had a minor labrum injury, I could do everything without limit except press above my head.

[Fantaxp7]

Pretty hilarious jump shot
https://streamable.com/6hhop

[leper-con]

Maybe they just don't want to shut him down because of the optics. this would be their third first overall pick having to start the season injured.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Pretty hilarious jump shot
https://streamable.com/6hhop

Some reporter on Philly sports radio said that Fultz is having a tough time raising his arm above his head without experiencing pain. Wtf is that medical staff doing down there? This kid shouldn't be playing. Insane.

[sully00]

People keep saying Fultz shoulder is hurt, but i've seen no indication of that in how he plays. He hustles for loose balls & extends his right arm on defense trying to steal the ball. I think it's 10X more likely that he's a headcase & decided to change his shot mechanics based on something he was told regarding his shot.

There's gotta be a reason he was the slam dunk #1 pick & then as soon as he came in for his visit everything flipped. I bet he flunked the brain doctor's test.

He was never a slam dunk #1 pick. The worst thing and best thing that happened to Fultz was Giles knee injury, Giles was the slam dunk #1 pick and blew out his knee. He never should have played a game last season. I think based on play Jackson was probably the #1 pick but he created questions about his game and make up and ditched a work out. Ball is a pure PG not a guy who you can pair with another PG if that matters. Tatum has a ton of talent but a slow start it took some balls to take him over Jackson but I think talent wise it was the right decision.

I don't know how you watch college basketball and the NBA and not have reservations about Fultz and the year he had. Felt a little bit like that with Simmons but there was no other option I didn't also have concerns with. That said I was all over KO over the Greek Freak so what do I know.

Giles was a PF who didn't have great range, poor vision and didn't have the defense of a center. You could see the potential when he crossed people while being 6'10'', which seemed really crazy, but he wasn't a sure thing either. He could have been a high usage, low efficient PF, or an undersized C with poor defense.

I think a lot of the reactions about Fultz are in hindsight, we're judging a player who looks nothing similar to the player who scored efficiently from three levels while being 18 years old, was an above average playmaker and had elite measurements for a PG.
Josh Jackson wasn't quick enough to beat athletes off the dribble, his defense was overrated, one of the worst shot mechanics and 20 years old. Jayson Tatum did everything well, but nothing exceptional and he had troubles finishing around big guys and settled for long jumpers against good defenders. De'Aaron Fox was a historically bad shooter and his frame was so fragile. Dennis Smith jr. didn't gave a **** in 50% of his games and came close to Fox' efficiency from midrange on a large sample size.

I could go on and one, but at the time Markelle Fultz was the consensus #1 pick and most agreed on this forum (check the reactions after lottery). That doesn't mean he will be the best player from the draft and he'll certainly not be the best if he continues with his shooting issues.

There were no concerns with Giles athleticism and defense prior to the knees it was whether or not he could fill out and develop a jumper but he was a freak athlete before the knees, and looked like an NBA ready rebounder and shot blocker. I can only speak for myself but I had issues with Fultz all year. He is the best offensive player in the world with his team down 10 points and the game about to get out of hand. I though he looked pretty pedestrian in conference play until he came up lame and just stopped playing all together. At that point in the year is when NBA people start really paying attention and Jackson and Tatum were great. Ball was good all year long he just got exposed a couple of times specifically against Fox that was going to make you worry.

[SmartWentCrazy]

We will not keep both Brown and Tatum it won't work long term. I prefer to trade Brown in a package to get a 4 that fits better move Tatum to the 3 Hayward at the 2 that's just my opinion but I think Danny has to trade one of these guys.

It will work perfectly fine. This isn't the 90s anymore. Tatum has the length of a modern PF. Weight is not there quite yet. It's clear the Celtics want to be able to seamlessly switch between the 2-4 positions. In fact Stevens has gone on record multiple times believing there is only 3 main positions in today's NBA (ball handler, wing, big), and even then there can be crossover between those 3 positions.

I hope you're right I just don't feel comfortable having Tatum at the 4 I see him as the perfect 3. Maybe if he puts on some series weight grows an inch or two then I'll feel better with him at the 4.

He needs to add some bulk for sure. I do believe he’s taller than the 6’8 number he measured at in high school, though.

If I had to guess, he’s a solid 6’9 to 6’9.5 with a 9 foot standing reach— both of which are solid for a PF.

[Froob]

Man imagine the flack we'd get had we taken Fultz...nobody cares that much since he's on Philly but, GB would have a field day on how terrible Ainge is.