10/27 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (116) - (119) Minnesota Timberwolves

[jambalaya]

Melo was a fine to great offensive rebounder in past and an ok to good defensive rebounder til he came to OKC. I think it is more he isn't trying than can't. He has the length, strength and against bigs he should have pursuit speed advantage... if he tries harder.

[Atomic Punk]

This loss is mostly on Westbrook IMO, just way too many unforced turnovers and took too many plays off on D. Not the only problem, of course, but he just seemed way too careless for long stretches of the game.

I dont really disagree with that. Maybe it should not come as much of a surprise, but Russ and PG seem to be struggling to find themselves so to speak. Melo on the other hand is simply doing what Melo does for better or for worse.

Side note: the league really needs to reconsider this shortened training camp pre-season thing. The results, so far, have not looked promising; multiple injuries, teams/players off to shaky starts, etc.

[Kizz Fastfists]

It has seemed that both PG and Melo are just going through the motions at times. Russ is struggling. The defense is terrible with Roberson out and he isn't himself when he's on the court most likely because of the knee issue. It has basically been a worst case scenario for the team so far. They have time to fix things and improve, but I'm not sure how much things will improve given the level of coaching OKC has.

[Rotten Apple]

Melo was a fine to great offensive rebounder in past and an ok to good defensive rebounder til he came to OKC. I think it is more he isn't trying than can't. He has the length, strength and against bigs he should have pursuit speed advantage... if he tries harder.

Yeah he’s definitely not attacking the glass. He was in the beginning but Russ kept flying over his head

Even if he doesn’t get the board he should then focus on moving his man out of the way at least.

[dakomish23]

Another experiment: Melo as backup center. Didn't he do that some in Olympics?

Melo can't rebound and it's becoming painfully obvious. Taj dominated him every chance he got.
As soon as Adams leaves the paint we are struggling to get a D board.
Grant got ruined by KAT under the rim too. We need another enforcer down there

From what I've watched, he's not even close to rebounding the way he used to. The guy would grab 6-8 a night and in traffic too. Not sure why he's suddenly shy of contact. He used to live for it.

[nedleeds]

He also used to rebound his own missed layups alot.

[hardenASG13]

donovan's statement is nonsense, too. but i was talking about the claim that a) dre hasn't been making a defensive impact and b) huestis is closer to an nba caliber offensive player.

thunder allowed 130pp100 the rest of the game after dre subbed out for good. we're not beating anyone playing defense like that. huestis, abrines, felton, grant, etc. did nothing on offense after rw came back in 4Q to warrant any sort of confidence in them.

you can't escape the facts.

To the blind eye they did nothing. To the people who don't miss the little things (apparently you only see them on defense), the floor completely opened up, allowing for things like driving lanes for Westbrook and a clear lane for adams to split, repeatedly. Maybe they needed more of this

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Not sure what you are trying to illustrate with this clip. Are you suggesting that Dre had a lapse here and got beat on that back cut? Because actually, that one is on Melo, he was ball watching and failed to rotate. That being said, I dont think Roberson is healthy he didn’t look right last night.

Melo was ballside, and his man ran out to the ballside corner, he wasn't in helpside. Roberson lost him in his peripheral, and he cut for the lob.

[hardenASG13]

To the blind eye they did nothing. To the people who don't miss the little things (apparently you only see them on defense), the floor completely opened up, allowing for things like driving lanes for Westbrook and a clear lane for adams to split, repeatedly. Maybe they needed more of this.

nonsense. the wolves treated patterson, and then grant, the same exact way they would treat andre roberson in those situations on the weak side.



russell westbrook pulls up for a 17 footer. patrick patterson on the weak side corner, his man (taj gibson) is in the paint, which is precisely where he would be if dre was in the corner. jerami grant is on the baseline creating zero space here but gunning for slip to the rim obviously or offensive rebound. something dre did earlier in the game successfully.



russell westbrook driving to the middle of the lane, grant's in the corner weak side, his man is hedged dancing in and out of the paint to not get three seconds. westbrook's layup attempt is contested and he misses. grant not in the play whatsoever.



paul george drives into the paint with adams trailing. jerami grant above the break. his man (jeff teague) has his back turned to him. taj gibson is concerned about melo in the corner by playing the passing lane. george misses the jump shot.



westbrook and george about to do the hand-off. george would come around and fire and miss a three after. grant in the corner on the weak side. nobody paying attention to him. not even after the hand-off action. george misses the three.



george drives into the paint, jerami grant in the corner on the weak side. towns steps up to help and adams gets and easy dunk on the feed from george. wait that's not grant! that's roberson. and his man is exactly where grant's man was on these plays during 4Q.

you can go through 4Q yourself and see. stats.nba.com has clips of every offensive play.

and even if what you're saying was true, it's been shown time and again the last three seasons that andre roberson's value on defense is greater than his negative impact on offense. maybe if we had a prime kevin martin on our bench there could be a tenable argument, but grant, huestis, abrines, felton aren't making up the difference between themselves and roberson defensively on the offensive end. no matter how you want to spin it (durrrr... spacing).

All the defenders in your stills are exactly where they should be. You are right in a sense it wouldn't matter if dre was the one standing there doing nothing in those select incidents. The difference also happens when those guys do catch the ball as they can do things like drive and dunk (grant), dribble to collapse the D (abrines and felton), draw fouls on the other team,or supposedly shoot (patterson). Those are the things Roberson can't do, and which breakdown a defense (the little things, you know). I wish he could.

Look, those guys certainly are not getting it done at any great levels. Of all the thunder players, they have the best chance to though. The difference defensively hasn't been there either, as dre too has been getting torched (durr.....his rotating on the perimeter has a game changing effect!) Good offenses will torch okc, with or without him, as good offense trumps good D, as I've been telling you. Hes got no role on this team, let's keep watching.

[slick_watts]

The difference also happens when those guys do catch the ball as they can do things like drive and dunk (grant), dribble to collapse the D (abrines and felton), draw fouls on the other team,or supposedly shoot (patterson). Those are the things Roberson can't do, and which breakdown a defense (the little things, you know). I wish he could.

except a) we don't do this. weak side corner is completely uninvolved in our offense in 4Q and has been since kevin martin signed in minnesota and b) you're delusional if you think roberson can't take two dribble in and make a pass to someone, or cut behind a defense. he has as much utility in the corner as grant does imo.

alex abrines can dribble to collapse the defense? since when? abrines drives the ball way less than 1 time per game last year. you are making things up.

ook, those guys certainly are not getting it done at any great levels. Of all the thunder players, they have the best chance to though. The difference defensively hasn't been there either, as dre too has been getting torched (durr.....his rotating on the perimeter has a game changing effect!) Good offenses will torch okc, with or without him, as good offense trumps good D, as I've been telling you. Hes got no role on this team, let's keep watching.

the wolves beat us the same exact way twice and dre was absent after brief stints with the starters in 3Q. how can you possibly hold onto this even anecdotally? the difference between our defense with him and without him is stark and obvious to anyone aside from those just trying not to see it.

good offenses will torch okc? like the rockets did with dre in the game with the starters and we held them to 10pp100 worse than their season average?

you are clueless.

[hardenASG13]

The difference also happens when those guys do catch the ball as they can do things like drive and dunk (grant), dribble to collapse the D (abrines and felton), draw fouls on the other team,or supposedly shoot (patterson). Those are the things Roberson can't do, and which breakdown a defense (the little things, you know). I wish he could.

except a) we don't do this. weak side corner is completely uninvolved in our offense in 4Q and has been since kevin martin signed in minnesota and b) you're delusional if you think roberson can't take two dribble in and make a pass to someone, or cut behind a defense. he has as much utility in the corner as grant does imo.

alex abrines can dribble to collapse the defense? since when? abrines drives the ball way less than 1 time per game last year. you are making things up.

ook, those guys certainly are not getting it done at any great levels. Of all the thunder players, they have the best chance to though. The difference defensively hasn't been there either, as dre too has been getting torched (durr.....his rotating on the perimeter has a game changing effect!) Good offenses will torch okc, with or without him, as good offense trumps good D, as I've been telling you. Hes got no role on this team, let's keep watching.

the wolves beat us the same exact way twice and dre was absent after brief stints with the starters in 3Q. how can you possibly hold onto this even anecdotally? the difference between our defense with him and without him is stark and obvious to anyone aside from those just trying not to see it.

good offenses will torch okc? like the rockets did with dre in the game with the starters and we held them to 10pp100 worse than their season average?

you are clueless.

Not delusional, Roberson can't make to dribbles and collapse the D. Yes, abrines has stunk, I've said that. Not making things up, he's been a letdown. I hope he improves.

How you can hold onto the notion they would've beat minnesota, had Roberson played more, is the crazy thing. What is he bringing to the table? I've already told you why that stat with houston isn't nearly what you make it out to be (comparing reg season defensive averages vs. Half non playoff teams to playoff defensive averages by okc). It's obvious to non homer fans that his offensive limitations are beyond tolerable at the NBA level for a team to reach its highest potential. But that doesn't seem to matter to you, you'd rather their pp/100 over an 82 game warm-up to the playoffs has a better rating.

[bondom34]

Losing 119-116 sure feels like a game you could use better defense.

[slick_watts]

Not delusional, Roberson can't make to dribbles and collapse the D.

this was in the first quarter of the game we just played. do you not watch them? seriously.

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I've already told you why that stat with houston isn't nearly what you make it out to be (comparing reg season defensive averages vs. Half non playoff teams to playoff defensive averages by okc).

the defense our starters played v. houston was as good as the defense the spurs played v. houston in the same playoffs. just because 'you already told me' doesn't mean your take invalidates what actually occurred, kiddo.

. But that doesn't seem to matter to you, you'd rather their pp/100 over an 82 game warm-up to the playoffs has a better rating.

is this english?

[Andre Roberstan]

To the blind eye they did nothing. To the people who don't miss the little things (apparently you only see them on defense), the floor completely opened up, allowing for things like driving lanes for Westbrook and a clear lane for adams to split, repeatedly. Maybe they needed more of this

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Not sure what you are trying to illustrate with this clip. Are you suggesting that Dre had a lapse here and got beat on that back cut? Because actually, that one is on Melo, he was ball watching and failed to rotate. That being said, I dont think Roberson is healthy he didn’t look right last night.

Melo was ballside, and his man ran out to the ballside corner, he wasn't in helpside. Roberson lost him in his peripheral, and he cut for the lob.

Russ and Adams trapped. It looks like Dre is stepping in to bump Towns with the expectation that Melo's still on the back line to deal with Butler.

[spearsy23]

Melo was definitely out of position on that play, but in the end it doesn't matter because after soft trap like that Steven has to get back into the lane and Russ has to recover more quickly or else we're giving up an open look somewhere. Personally, I'd prefer a Taj Gibson 3 to an open dunk, but I don't know that Melo would've stopped that oop even in good help position.

[Pillendreher]

The play just illustrates the general problem with Russ defensively: He does not stick to his man and it leaves us unbalanced defensively.

[spearsy23]

The play just illustrates the general problem with Russ defensively: He does not stick to his man and it leaves us unbalanced defensively.

His problem is that he's terrible at navigating screens and we insist on going over every one no matter who the shooter is.