Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1

[SeanBobcats]

Okafor would probably only fit well here if he was the backup to Cody rather than the backup to Dwight, so I'm not sure I can see him here. I personally wouldn't look to make too drastic of a move with this roster. If Bledsoe ends up going for cheap then I'd definitely like to see Charlotte involved in the bidding war, but I think the only player we might be able to dangle right now is MKG although I still think he is definitely a relatively valuable player for us.

[Braggins]

Pretty sure Okafor is terrible.

He's alot like MKG in that he was drafted way higher than he should have been and will never live up to his #2 status.

Okafor, like MKG, is still a useful NBA player though. And one who still has this year and next remaining on a rookie scale deal.

As previously mentioned, the fact that he's finally eating right, in shape and reported 15-20 lbs lighter is encouraging. I dont expect he'll ever amount to anything more than a Greg Monroe type (i.e. scorer/rebounder who struggles laterally on pick and roll defense), but if you're getting him in conjunction with Saric and strictly using him as Dwight Howard's backup, he can contribute meaningfully and feast on other teams' second units in the post.

clip of his 10/9/2 in 22 minutes of work last week:

Watch on YouTube

Pretty much all the knowledgable 6ers fans on realgm say hes terrible and he got beat out for a backup rotation spot by Amir Johnson and Richaun Holmes, despite actually being in good shape. He cant defend, rebound, pass, or shoot outside of 8 feet.

That trade would potentially be a disaster and the last thing we should be trying to do is putting ourselves all in on Howard. Cody is still our best center when healthy and will be a key piece for us long after Howards tenure as our starting center.

[Mystical Apples]

I'd fire Cho with cause if he traded MKG + 1st for Saric.

Honestly, what does MKG bring to the table here? And don't give me the fantasy of being a lock down defender; that has been disproven many times over. He is athletic, and defense is his best attribute, but limited in every other way. I don't want to give up 1st round picks but for the right player I'd do it in a heartbeat. The sad part is they probably wouldn't trade Saric straight up for MKG, even with Saric playing bench minutes.

I look at what do we have now and what do we need. MKG will never be a player worthy of starting minutes, and will never offer any significant impact on offense. Saric is a quality player on both sides of the ball, young, and ready to contribute as a starter on this team. Next year's pick is a crap shoot especially if we're outside the lottery. Bacon has a better chance of being an impact player at the 3 than MKG but Saric would already be that contributor here. I'd pull the trigger Cho.

Not gonna even bother with the defensive comp beat down.

Saric may improve his offensive efficiency but he was several steps below average in almost every category last season, obviously a major concern given he's already logged ~ 10,000 professional and FIBA minutes. And needless to say, he'd struggle for minutes with CHA for the same reasons he'll struggle for minutes with PHI.

Half Court PPP (no oreb, misc)
Saric: .83
MKG: .90
NBA Median: .93

Playmaking PPP
Saric: 1.07
NBA median: 1.08
MKG: 1.18

[Mystical Apples]

Pretty sure Okafor is terrible.

He's alot like MKG in that he was drafted way higher than he should have been and will never live up to his #2 status.

Okafor, like MKG, is still a useful NBA player though. And one who still has this year and next remaining on a rookie scale deal.

As previously mentioned, the fact that he's finally eating right, in shape and reported 15-20 lbs lighter is encouraging. I dont expect he'll ever amount to anything more than a Greg Monroe type (i.e. scorer/rebounder who struggles laterally on pick and roll defense), but if you're getting him in conjunction with Saric and strictly using him as Dwight Howard's backup, he can contribute meaningfully and feast on other teams' second units in the post.

clip of his 10/9/2 in 22 minutes of work last week:

Pretty much all the knowledgable 6ers fans on realgm say hes terrible and he got beat out for a backup rotation spot by Amir Johnson and Richaun Holmes, despite actually being in good shape. He cant defend, rebound, pass, or shoot outside of 8 feet.

That trade would potentially be a disaster and the last thing we should be trying to do is putting ourselves all in on Howard. Cody is still our best center when healthy and will be a key piece for us long after Howards tenure as our starting center.

Those 22 noncompetitive minutes were in the 2nd half of a 34-point blowout loss. He also managed 2 TOV, 4 fouls (!), 0 assists, and a -16.

[dmutombo321]

I'd fire Cho with cause if he traded MKG + 1st for Saric.

Honestly, what does MKG bring to the table here? And don't give me the fantasy of being a lock down defender; that has been disproven many times over. He is athletic, and defense is his best attribute, but limited in every other way. I don't want to give up 1st round picks but for the right player I'd do it in a heartbeat. The sad part is they probably wouldn't trade Saric straight up for MKG, even with Saric playing bench minutes.

I look at what do we have now and what do we need. MKG will never be a player worthy of starting minutes, and will never offer any significant impact on offense. Saric is a quality player on both sides of the ball, young, and ready to contribute as a starter on this team. Next year's pick is a crap shoot especially if we're outside the lottery. Bacon has a better chance of being an impact player at the 3 than MKG but Saric would already be that contributor here. I'd pull the trigger Cho.

Not gonna even bother with the defensive comp beat down.

Saric may improve his offensive efficiency but he was several steps below average in almost every category last season, obviously a major concern given he's already logged ~ 10,000 professional and FIBA minutes. And needless to say, he'd struggle for minutes with CHA for the same reasons he'll struggle for minutes with PHI.

Half Court PPP (no oreb, misc)
Saric: .83
MKG: .90
NBA Median: .93

Playmaking PPP
Saric: 1.07
NBA median: 1.08
MKG: 1.18

IMO, a comparison like this exemplifies the inability of advanced stats to take into account players' roles with their respective teams

MKG is a defensive specialist relied upon for no offensive output. The majority of his points come from fast breaks, back door cuts and the occasional 15 footer. He only attempts shots when opportunities present themselves and isn't called upon to create his own offense.

Saric meanwhile functioned in a capacity the second half of last season where he was tasked with generating offense for a terrible Sixers team and was attempting 15 shots a night during their final 30 contests as the team's primary option, while leading the 6ers in scoring during that time.

It shouldn't be surprising that Saric was less efficient in the offensive role he was filling vs. MKG's role as a mere opportunistic scorer.

Many Sixers fans are disenchanted with Saric because he's off to a poor start after having played strong the final several weeks of last year. And he'll probably continue to underperform as long as he's coming off the bench playing spot minutes. Simmons is their future now at the point forward role Dario occupied for them last year and he can't function effectively playing beside Simmons off the ball.

Saric's current problem is fit IMO. Scrubs don't post 18/7 while shooting 44% over 30 games.

As for Okafor, unfortunately those 22 minutes of play during Phillys blowout are the only minutes we have to gauge him by this year. I'm in complete agreement he'd never fit here as well as zeller. He's a defensive liability and that players like he and Monroe of the Al Jefferson mold are becoming harder to keep on the floor. But he's still shown the ability to function as a productive backup.


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[Mystical Apples]

Half Court PPP (no oreb, misc)
Saric: .83
MKG: .90
NBA Median: .93

Playmaking PPP
Saric: 1.07
NBA median: 1.08
MKG: 1.18

IMO, a comparison like this exemplifies the inability of advanced stats to take into account players' roles with their respective teams

MKG is a defensive specialist relied upon for no offensive output. The majority of his points come from fast breaks, back door cuts and the occasional 15 footer. He only attempts shots when opportunities present themselves and isn't called upon to create his own offense.

Saric meanwhile functioned in a capacity the second half of last season where he was tasked with generating offense for a terrible Sixers team and was attempting 15 shots a night during their final 30 contests as the team's primary option, while leading the 6ers in scoring during that time.

PPP isn't an advanced stat. It's a different way to express individual efficiency not unlike % except important stuff like TOV's are included. You can justify his numbers however you choose but they weren't that dissimilar to his inefficient pre-NBA numbers, which again is a player we have 10,000 minutes on.

BTW if Saric was a team his halfcourt PPP would've been 31 out of 30 teams (by a mile). At that point the goal should be usage mitigation.

As for Okafor, unfortunately those 22 minutes of play during Phillys blowout are the only minutes we have to gauge him by this year. I'm in complete agreement he'd never fit here as well as zeller. He's a defensive liability and that players like he and Monroe of the Al Jefferson mold are becoming harder to keep on the floor. But he's still shown the ability to function as a productive backup.

Okafor was an efficiency drain in college. And year 1 in the NBA. And year 2 also. The reason we only have 22 minutes in year 3 is because his coach and GM both agree Okafor isn't good.

[dmutombo321]

Lol, I'm not going to get in an argument trying to defend the honor of Jahlil Okafor. The guy is a huge disappointment and just two pages ago on this very thread I was posting about what a bust he's been relative to his draft position.

He still has some useful NBA skills though, including high level post scoring and can log productive minutes as a competent back up center. He's also still young, and reported to camp this year lighter and in great condition.

Okafor's recent DNP-CD's are more about him being deliberately shopped than it is about any sort of ineptitude. I note he's mysteriously inactive with a respiratory infection tonight less than 24 hours after it was publicized that Philly was fielding offers. Coincidence? I think not

[Bassman]

My original agreement was with getting Saric, who I think presents a better player relative to our needs than MKG. If his value is lower, and they want to shed Okafor, who says it would have to be Cody in the deal for both? Either Marvin or MKG make double the salary of these two guys combined. Just trading one with a player piece like Mathiang works in the trade machine although not sure how, since we are over the cap.

[euphorbus]

So far as trading for Okafor or anyone else from the Philadelphia 76ers, I say they have been losing for so long they have forgotten how to win. You want a winner, trade for a winner. You would think that Philadelphia would improve with all that talent they have drafted, but it will never happen until someone like Blake Griffin comes along, who just wills the team to improve.

Currently, they are 26th in FG% in the league.

[Kembastockton]

My original agreement was with getting Saric, who I think presents a better player relative to our needs than MKG. If his value is lower, and they want to shed Okafor, who says it would have to be Cody in the deal for both? Either Marvin or MKG make double the salary of these two guys combined. Just trading one with a player piece like Mathiang works in the trade machine although not sure how, since we are over the cap.

We know that was your premise. I don't think anyone agrees with you. You seem to believe that our need is more scoring, and that he is being wasted on the 6'er bench. If he is as good as you seem to think why would the Sixers trade him for a player like Mathiang who is more than likely a career GLeaguer? So far this year Saric is playing 20 minutes per game and averaging 5 points. That's along the lines of the minutes and production of our current young wings. Would you trade any of them for a player destined for the GLeague? I just don't see the value of Saric over what we have now. Think about it. Why is he failing to start over Robert Covington? Doesn't that bother you a little bit that for some reason their coach values the play of Robert Covington over his? Why are you recruiting to trade for the back up over the starter? Is it possible that you may be rating this kid a little to highly? When we make a trade we need to swing for the fences not to get on first base.

Real talk, MKG IS NOT THE STARTER that we need to trade. If we look to trade a starter it needs to be Batum. We need an agressive dead eye at the two. Nick is to passive as well as to hit and miss from three. Then when you figure that we are paying him twenty million a year we need to see if we can do something with that.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Can't say that Bass is wrong about needing more offense. Right now the team is top 5 defensively but almost bottom 5 offensively. Cliff has talked about this in his interviews noting that defense is not the problem, it's the offense.

I rooted for MKG for the first few years he was here. I still like his personality and culture fit with the team. I'm just at a point where I would rather see someone else in his spot. MKG makes the team better at what it is already really good at, D. The Hornets need someone who can stretch the floor and still play some D. Ideally that other player could also pass well and and create shots, but at this point even a solid 3&D guy who can just catch and shoot would help.

Is Saric the guy? I have my doubts. Bass notes he is young and points at that 30 game stretch. Apples shows how ugly the advanced stats are. Personally I would rate Saric as no better than 50/50 to be a good fit here. It could work out grand, but there are significant odds that he would fail.

I also think that the team would really hope to get back someone more experienced than Saric if they actually traded MKG. Trading a starter for a better fit is a win now kind of move. Trading him for a younger prospect is usually saying something about giving up on the season, and I think that's how Kemba and the others would read such a trade.

[Benjamin Linus]

Spur of the moment trade idea... MKG and filler for Wesley Matthews and one of their PGs

Why for Dallas - they have zero use for Matthews. The guy is 31. They're going to win like 20 games this year. They need a ton of help on the defensive end and they literally have four dozen point guards on their roster.

Why for Charlotte - Matthews is like 50x the player Courtney Lee is and Lee was a once in a lifetime, generational HOF superstar for us. We also pick up a solid backup PG (Yogi, Seth, JJ, Devin, etc...) and maybe they can throw in a second round pick or something

[Kembastockton]

Is there a particular reason why you guys aren't speculating about players who are actually.. . you know... good?

[SWedd523]

If I'm trading a starter, it's definitely going to be Marv

[dmutombo321]

Is there a particular reason why you guys aren't speculating about players who are actually.. . you know... good?

^ Because we're being realistic and recognize that apart from Kemba Walker (and to a lesser extent, perhaps Monk and Kaminsky if he continues to show improvement this year), Charlotte's other trade assets arent going to command any all-star or fringe-all star type players in return.

I'd love to have a Jason Tatum, Ben Simmons, Wiggins or even Tobias Harris starting on the wing and posting 20+ points per game next to Kemba, but that's a pipe dream.

So realistically, it makes sense to discuss players we might actually have a shot at acquiring. That means
a) 30ish veterans like Wes Matthews, Wilson Chandler, Bledsoe
b) taking a calculated risk on a young player, like a Kyle Anderson of the aforementioned Saric who have shown glimpses of talent and hoping they may be able to flourish if inserted into the right situation

[dmutombo321]

If I'm trading a starter, it's definitely going to be Marv

He's the starter I'd like to unload most too. I think Kaminsky is ready to take the PF reigns.

Dont think Marv has much trade value though. He's on the wrong side of 30, off to a poor start this year, and the last two years of his contract are going to be an albatross.

[Diop]

I'd love to get Korver from Cav's they aren't using him properly, he should be getting the most 3 point attempts, not towards the least.

They will probably look for a desperate trade soon, I don't think we have anything they need though.

Just after I wrote this, they put Korver in and let him hoist up a couple of more.

[HornetJail]

Spur of the moment trade idea... MKG and filler for Wesley Matthews and one of their PGs

Why for Dallas - they have zero use for Matthews. The guy is 31. They're going to win like 20 games this year. They need a ton of help on the defensive end and they literally have four dozen point guards on their roster.

Why for Charlotte - Matthews is like 50x the player Courtney Lee is and Lee was a once in a lifetime, generational HOF superstar for us. We also pick up a solid backup PG (Yogi, Seth, JJ, Devin, etc...) and maybe they can throw in a second round pick or something

Are you still stuck in 2013? Matthews is not much of a player anymore. He might be a little better than Lee but not enough to warrant 1) Trading MKG or 2) Taking on that contract, let alone both of them.

[catch20two]

I’m surprised I haven’t seen a plethora of trade proposals for Mario Hezonja yet.

[yosemiteben]

I’m surprised I haven’t seen a plethora of trade proposals for Mario Hezonja yet.

Not much point in trading for a guy that will be an UFA next offseason.