State of the Lakers?

LakersSoul · Post #1 » by **LakersSoul** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:28 am

Its early.

We have played 6 game in the early season with Ball and Lopez missing most of the preseason.
KCP also didnt play the first two games. Should we be more patient with the team or have you guys seen enough?

Positives:
Team has some fight in them.
Bench is mostly playing well.
Ball showed some high ceiling against the Suns.
Ingram had games of 16, 19 and 25 points.
Randle is showing some strong defense finally.

Negatives:
Ball is struggling with his shots.
Ingram is hot and cold.
Lopez is MIA.

What is the state of the Lakers right now?
After seeing the team play 6 games and go 2-4, are we headed in the right direction?
We have lost 4 out of the 6 but the only game that we were out of the contest was the first game against the Clippers. The rest, we had a good shot in the 4th quarter. Does this mean the young players will sooner or later figure it out? Will Ball's shooting struggles continue and what happened to Lopez? What happened to the guy that was going to be our leader and 3 point shooter? What do you guys think?

Post #2 » by **Slava** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:39 am

There's no way anyone can make any statement over the state of the franchise until we see how next year's free agency turns out. We've positioned ourselves to be big players there by making some punitive trades for the longer future if the gamble doesn't come off.

LakersSoul · Post #3 » by **LakersSoul** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:53 am

Slava wrote:There's no way anyone can make any statement over the state of the franchise until we see how next year's free agency turns out. We've positioned ourselves to be big players there by making some punitive trades for the longer future if the gamble doesn't come off.

True. That is the ultimate timeline and ultimately decide the fate of Magic and the Lakers.

However, that doesnt mean we cannot grade the state of the Lakers right now. We dont have to base it on win/loss record but how we are playing overall and how the key players in key roles (Ball, Ingram, Kuzma) are adjusting to the games and how they will mesh with future FAs next summer.

Personally, I am a bit disappointed not because of the play or the record but because of my higher than reasonable expectations. I wanted Ball to be that "star" but realized that he is going to go through a big adjustment phase. I understand it but do not like it. I still really like our team and have high hopes for them. I just have to temper the expectations a bit. I really like Ball, Ingram, Kuzma and the rest. I still believe Magic will keep improving the team's roster and position heading into the summer of 2018 then watch the fireworks. I just hope the fans give the team and the youngsters time to improve and adjust to the game.

Post #4 » by **Slava** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:04 pm

We have come on leaps and bounds as a defensive team, so suggesting we haven't taken a step forward is not true. Once the sample size adjusts, if we are between 15-20 in both offensive and defensive rating, I'd call the season a success.

LakersSoul · Post #5 » by **LakersSoul** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:10 pm

Slava wrote:We have come on leaps and bounds as a defensive team, so suggesting we haven't taken a step forward is not true. Once the sample size adjusts, if we are between 15-20 in both offensive and defensive rating, I'd call the season a success.

Slava,

I never said we havent taken a step forward. In fact, I doubt there are many Lakers fans still as excited about this season as I am. I believe Ball's shots will begin to fall and the team will continue to get better and better as the season goes. I just wanted to gauge the fan's view of the early season and have a discussion. Thats all.

Spens1 · Post #6 » by **Spens1** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:37 pm

We suck and we still suck and have sucked since around 2014.

We're probably the worst shooting team in the NBA and when you're that bad defensively it doesn't help.

LakersSoul · Post #7 » by **LakersSoul** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:46 pm

Spens1 wrote:We suck and we still suck and have sucked since around 2014.

We're probably the worst shooting team in the NBA and when you're that bad defensively it doesn't help.

Maybe.

Or we are just learning to play team ball and team defense.

Maybe we had hit rock bottom with the poor shooting.

BBBKobe · Post #8 » by **BBBKobe** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:53 pm

Let's see what next summer brings us. As of right now, we can only sign one max free agent player.

The way Ball and Ingram have been playing so far (it's early I know) I'm not sure why anyone would want to come play with them. Just being realistic.

Crooked-I · Post #9 » by **Crooked-I** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:04 pm

I'm one of those that believes free agency next season is going to be a let down. I don't think PG13 leaves the Thunder or Lebron leaves the Cavs and if they do it won't be for us. Just don't see how those guys leave contenders for a 25-30 win team.

I do believe we're headed in the right direction with our young guys tho. The all have holes, but they've shown potential for first and second year guys. But it is going to take longer than expected. Gonna need them to show something first before we get some good FAs

Post #10 » by **Kilroy** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:28 pm

Slava wrote:There's no way anyone can make any statement over the state of the franchise until we see how next year's free agency turns out. We've positioned ourselves to be big players there by making some punitive trades for the longer future if the gamble doesn't come off.

Honestly... This season is all about getting Ball experience... Nothing else on the court really matters that much... I mean, we'll see if Ingram is legit, or we have some other players we might half-ass want to keep, but beyond that, it's the Lonzo Ball test drive, and wait for the summer.
Oh... And try real hard to have an All-Star for the All-Star game, but in reality, just use the weekend as a chance to speak to potential FA and their agents...

Post #11 » by **Kilroy** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:31 pm

Crooked-I wrote:I'm one of those that believes free agency next season is going to be a let down. I don't think PG13 leaves the Thunder or Lebron leaves the Cavs and if they do it won't be for us. Just don't see how those guys leave contenders for a 25-30 win team.

I do believe we're headed in the right direction with our young guys tho. The all have holes, but they've shown potential for first and second year guys. But it is going to take longer than expected. Gonna need them to show something first before we get some good FAs

Doesn't matter if it's a letdown or not... We still have basically no choice but to plan as though the team we have on the court this season, isn't going to be here next season... If LeBron is even rumored to want to play for you, you have to make it possible...

Even if I don't necessarily like it.

Crooked-I · Post #12 » by **Crooked-I** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:18 pm

Kilroy wrote:
Crooked-I wrote:I'm one of those that believes free agency next season is going to be a let down. I don't think PG13 leaves the Thunder or Lebron leaves the Cavs and if they do it won't be for us. Just don't see how those guys leave contenders for a 25-30 win team.

I do believe we're headed in the right direction with our young guys tho. The all have holes, but they've shown potential for first and second year guys. But it is going to take longer than expected. Gonna need them to show something first before we get some good FAs

Doesn't matter if it's a letdown or not... We still have basically no choice but to plan as though the team we have on the court this season, isn't going to be here next season... If LeBron is even rumored to want to play for you, you have to make it possible...

Even if I don't necessarily like it.

Yeah we'll see what happens. I just think we've been holding onto this stars want to play in LA idea for so long and its failed us multiple times i'm just over it.

Sedale Threatt · Post #13 » by **Sedale Threatt** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:37 pm

Slava wrote:There's no way anyone can make any statement over the state of the franchise until we see how next year's free agency turns out. We've positioned ourselves to be big players there by making some punitive trades for the longer future if the gamble doesn't come off.

Yup. Not to mention the fact that our prospective cornerstones can't even legally drink yet. I get discouraged as anyone -- it's especially frustrating to see how close we came to landing the likes of Simmons and Towns, and ended up with what we got instead -- but it's hard to even have a strong opinion at this point.

danfantastk32 · Post #14 » by **danfantastk32** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:46 pm

This year is about development. It's going to prob be yet another brutal, long season...but it is what it is.

I think we're terrible defensively, but it appears we're actually working on it. Hard to tell....we're not exactly playing OKC right now.
We're trying to be a 3-point team....but we suck at outside shooting. This will either fix, and we'll be able to start doing the other things we want to do offensively, or it'll stay cold, and Luke will have to come up with something else (if he can).

The big positives we have is where we are as a team: Take the $$ scenario and the rebuild scenario, and either one looks promising.

Plan A) Lebron and / or PG come here. That would prob entice someone else.
Plan B) Ingram / Ball / Kuzma all show high potential. Nance / Clarkson / Randle / Hart / Zubac show potential to grow into good players, and solid role guys. Randle perhaps even has a higher ceiling. Your talking about 6-9 guys on this roster with alot of room to grow and improve. Who knows what this team might be in and of itself in 2-3 years....much less 6-7 years. That's a fact that people need to let soak in: Half this squad wont be hitting their prime for like 5 years. We could sign Lebron...and he could be out the door before any of these guys really get going.

Plan C) When you think of this as more of a 4-5 year plan the possibility certainly exists for a hybrid of both A and B. Perhaps we get A-Davis is 3-years? Just kinda tread water, and continue improving until then? A-Davis in 3 years totally works with our timeline. Kuz, Ball...and the rest would be in their mid-twenties (hell half of them would be early twenties still!)

I actually don't look at either PG or Lebron to take us to a title. Not unless we scrap the youth, and sign 3 guys. Maybe keep a couple of young guys. I look at Lebron coming here, and speeding up the process....and laying the groundwork for a legit squad in 3 years or so. Lebron would immediately put us into the playoffs...which is where guys learn to be big-time. If some of our guys did actually turn out to be star-caliber players in a couple years....we might make a go at it with him.....but I wouldn't consider it the plan.

That's my take. We just gotta be patient. Getting Lebron would be cool...and we'd see playoffs again. But we're not gonna win it, and we'll see playoffs in a few years either way.....so I am not putting all my eggs in this FA basket. It would just be nice / speed things up.

danfantastk32 · Post #15 » by **danfantastk32** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:57 pm

A-Davis was just a hypothetical, btw. One other benefit of playing it slow, is we'll see who does grow into a great player, and then sign the FA's we actually need. Perhaps Ingram and Kuzma both turn into studs, making A-Davis' skillset sorta redundant for us. Maybe Ball will be a dud...and it will be someone like J-Wall in 4 years? Who knows. Point is, next offseason would be nice...but this team (assuming some of these guys make good) will have a window for the next 9-10 years to attract FA's.

Control the things we can control: Develop our squad, and bring stability. Make this place ENTICING. It's LA, and we can max someone. We just need to stop being a mess, and we'll get FA's.

BBBKobe · Post #16 » by **BBBKobe** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:42 pm

Crooked-I wrote:I'm one of those that believes free agency next season is going to be a let down. I don't think PG13 leaves the Thunder or Lebron leaves the Cavs and if they do it won't be for us. Just don't see how those guys leave contenders for a 25-30 win team.

I do believe we're headed in the right direction with our young guys tho. The all have holes, but they've shown potential for first and second year guys. But it is going to take longer than expected. Gonna need them to show something first before we get some good FAs

And if that happens. that D'Angelo trade will be the worst mistake in quite sometime for the Lakers franchise. Fans will start to turn on Magic.

BEazy · Post #17 » by **BEazy** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:28 pm

No way LeBron leaves the Cavs when he only gets half a season with IT. He'll do his usual 1 year contract with the Cavs and assess his situation after that season. Paul George is doing pretty damn well with Russ and Carmelo, I'm sure it's going to be hard to leave a chance at a title every year for a rebuild project like us. Let's face it, OKC is one piece away from competing with the Warriors. I really doubt DeMarcus is going to leave AD/Jrue/Rondo for Lonzo and Ingram...

I think what we'll do is we'll make some trades and have to wait again for a big superstar to become a free agent. Maybe if Porzingis is really hell bent on leaving the Knicks he'll tell the organization to trade him.

LALifer49 · Post #18 » by **LALifer49** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:12 pm

I think we're heading in the right direction, but as the plan always seems to be lets compete for a championship next year...yeah slower than expected. When your grand plan and vision for your team is "lets recruit 2 max FAs to our bad team" it says something bad about your front office quite frankly. We should be avoiding bad contracts ie Deng and Mozgov or resigning Lopez if we strike out, and putting solid pieces around our young guys and trying to improve. You don't think every single front office wants to sign max free agents? The way to get them is to give them somewhere to land, not have them try and create something from nothing. The only exception to this is if you can grab a bunch at once, so if we have some 2010 Lebron collusion going on then that's great, otherwise we should be building with a mind on reasonable contracts, but not acting as tho a max fa is a given. Which means if we don't have a 2010 Heat situation in the works for next year, we should be content to go through the normal young team development and be ready to become a 40 win team before getting to 50, instead of counting on jumping from 20 wins to 50 in one offseason.

TylersLakers · Post #19 » by **TylersLakers** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:39 pm

I voted #3. May take longer as planned. I don't think we're going to have the major Paul George and LeBron splash this summer. I think George will come and I think Cousins may be possible. However, still a pipe dream. But even if we were to get those guys, internal development with Ingram and Lonzo is still going to be key.

I'm also not sold on Luke and the coaching stuff. I would love to see Luke make a veteran hire in the off-season and bring in a defensive co-ordinator and I also REALLY question his rotations. The fact that Randle is playing as well as he is and barely scratching 20 MPG is a complete joke. The hockey subs really annoy me.

Kupchak9 · Post #20 » by **Kupchak9** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:54 pm

The topic of this discussion should really be "How confident are you in the front office being able to sign FAs this offseason?"

I don't think the front-office has done anything to improve the on-court product today. In fact, I think our team is actually worse than it was last year. They only give unreasonable expectations to meet and provide little to no input on how to achieve those goals. They're strategy is to pretty much take an L this year, build up enough hype and use the same old tired tactics they've used for the past 4 seasons (LA is where stars are made, blah blah). Which will be a HUGE turn-off for FAs.

Quite frankly, the league has made it much more difficult for us to simply "steal" star players in free agency. Big contracts are handed out left & right and franchise's are no longer afraid to go over the luxury tax to keep their players because they'll still turn a profit. Playing for the Lakers is essentially just a novelty at this point for mediocre players who want more limelight and couldn't get enough attention elsewhere. But if you're actually an All-star caliber talent, you'll get enough attention anywhere you play with mass media today (Facebook, youtube, twitter, etc.). You don't have to play for a big-market to have a big-name. Money and fame come easily if you're a star-player. Wins do not. So ultimately, star players want to play on winning teams. One which we do not have.

The whole conversation will pretty much be this:

Magic and co: You'll live in LA and you'll be the face of the franchise, and you'll be the biggest star in so-cal.
Free Agent: Okay that's cool and all. I see you're offering me pretty much the same amount of money as my current team. What was your record last year?
Magic and co: And and and we'll run a ton of commercials for you on Time Warner Sports. We'll even give you a reality show.
Free Agent: I guess I'd be interested in that.. Maybe not the reality show. How would you integrate me in the offense?
Magic and co: SHOWTIME! We're going to be running the break all day! *huge smile*
Free Agent: What is that?
Magic and co: SHOWTIME IS BACK BABY! We're going to be running the break all day! *smiling intensifies*
Free Agent: Oh, I'm not really into that. If you've ever watched me play, you know I like to operate in the half-court.
Magic and co: SHOWTIME!

Free Agent: Can I please leave?

So yeah, I think the front-office is overconfident in their capabilities and out of touch with what players actually want.